BCAA - Pre Workout or Intra

double s

double s

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Curious for those that use BCAA's, when do you take it?

I personally use them intra but in doing some research, it has been recommended as a Pre to kind of flood the system.

Thoughts?
 
Strictly BCAAs, pre-workout.
 
Couple different ways I think about it (pros/cons):

Pre-workout - may be used primarily for fasted training or when protein hasn't been consumed for an extended time to spike MPS (3-4g of leucine will do the trick). Some will say to not use intra as there's no point to sip.

Intra-workout - may be used as a way to fight fatigue via increase plasma levels of BCAA's which may in turn lead to a decrease in the amount of Tryptophan that is transported to the brain.
 
I've been a fan of using bcaa's intraworkout for awhile now, but i technically use them preworkout as well

Humapro tabs only 2 tabs preworkout

Compete mixed with recoverpro is what i've been doing intraworkout
 
Depends on when the last meal was prior to working out, and the workout length.

If you are fasted I would always down half or all of your BCAAs just before working out.

For a long session, intra workout BCAAs can improve endurance/reduce fatigue.
 
Awesome suggestions, think this week will do PWO + 1/2 scoop BCAA and the other 1/2 sipped while working out seeing that I life first thing in the morning fasted
 
Before fasted workouts, or if I have extra laying around I'll drink it a few hours after each big meal.
 
aaronuconn said:
Couple different ways I think about it (pros/cons):

Pre-workout - may be used primarily for fasted training or when protein hasn't been consumed for an extended time to spike MPS (3-4g of leucine will do the trick). Some will say to not use intra as there's no point to sip.

Intra-workout - may be used as a way to fight fatigue via increase plasma levels of BCAA's which may in turn lead to a decrease in the amount of Tryptophan that is transported to the brain.
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This...
Take them pre for fasted training or dose intra-workout between meals that were 4-6 hours apart: (allow protein levels to reach refractory stages before being spiked again) layne also noted this several times in his lecture this weekend at the arnold Classic.

http://www.biolayne.com/wp-content/uploads/Norton-J-Ag-Food-Ind-Hi-Tech-2008.pdf
http://www.slideshare.net/biolayne/...ort-maximal-protein-synthesis-and-muscle-mass
http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/protein_size_&_frequency.pdf

Interview i did with layne where he chimes in a bit on this

http://www.machinemuscle.com/layne-norton-interview/
 
Pre workout if training on a empty stomach and intra all the time.

5g pre
5g intra

10g if no pre

Simple
 
Driven2lift said:
Depends on when the last meal was prior to working out, and the workout length.

If you are fasted I would always down half or all of your BCAAs just before working out.

For a long session, intra workout BCAAs can improve endurance/reduce fatigue.
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This...

I've gotten into fantastic shape without them. Endurance athletes get the most out of it.

Otherwise:
- Solid Pre-Workout Meal
- Workout 60-90 min later
- 45 min workout
- Post-Workout nutrition

Nailed it
 
The Solution said:
This...
Take them pre for fasted training or dose intra-workout between meals that were 4-6 hours apart: (allow protein levels to reach refractory stages before being spiked again) layne also noted this several times in his lecture this weekend at the arnold Classic.

http://www.biolayne.com/wp-content/uploads/Norton-J-Ag-Food-Ind-Hi-Tech-2008.pdf
http://www.slideshare.net/biolayne/...ort-maximal-protein-synthesis-and-muscle-mass
http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/protein_size_&_frequency.pdf

Interview i did with layne where he chimes in a bit on this

http://www.machinemuscle.com/layne-norton-interview/
Click to expand...

Terrific links; thanks for sharing. Excellent material.


Monte
 
I have to agree with pre, during and post as well.

Normally I'll also getting a solid meal about an hour before training a shake about twenty minutes post training and a solid meal about forty five minutes after the shake.

Some people will say this is a waste of BCAA/money but I will say rather safe then sorry.
 
Montego1 said:
I have to agree with pre, during and post as well.

Normally I'll also getting a solid meal about an hour before training a shake about twenty minutes post training and a solid meal about forty five minutes after the shake.

Some people will say this is a waste of BCAA/money but I will say rather safe then sorry.
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Just curious what is the purpose of a full meal, the some more BCAA's right after, more intra, and then a shake + Meal in a span of an hour (post-workout)
you never ever allow protein levels to reach refractory stages, and even when in a fed state a meal would never digest in 1 hour. Totally defeats the purpose of muscle protein synthesis especially since your are constantly elevating amino levels not to mention protein from the pre-workout meal would still overlapping into the post-workout window. If your protein needs are met (minimums) Supplementing more BCAA's would only be a lighter wallet in essence.
 
The Solution said:
Just curious what is the purpose of a full meal, the some more BCAA's right after, more intra, and then a shake + Meal in a span of an hour (post-workout)
you never ever allow protein levels to reach refractory stages, and even when in a fed state a meal would never digest in 1 hour. Totally defeats the purpose of muscle protein synthesis especially since your are constantly elevating amino levels not to mention protein from the pre-workout meal would still overlapping into the post-workout window. If your protein needs are met (minimums) Supplementing more BCAA's would only be a lighter wallet in essence.
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My eating and supplementing regiment have worked out rather well for myself....that's why.
 
And more so. I'd rather have my body in a constant surplus of nutrients. If that didn't make sense then I dunno what does.
 
Montego1 said:
And more so. I'd rather have my body in a constant surplus of nutrients. If that didn't make sense then I dunno what does.
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A caloric surplus will yield = surplus of nutrients.
If not then the individuals diet must consist of about 3-4 foods.
Megadosing BCAA's does not = Nutrients
 
The Solution said:
A caloric surplus will yield = surplus of nutrients.
If not then the individuals diet must consist of about 3-4 foods.
Megadosing BCAA's does not = Nutrients
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Woo said I was mega dosing anything? Or did you just assume that? Cause we all know what happens when someone assumes....
 
Christmas Story Gif.gif
"Oh, the humanity!
 
The Solution said:
This... Take them pre for fasted training or dose intra-workout between meals that were 4-6 hours apart: (allow protein levels to reach refractory stages before being spiked again) layne also noted this several times in his lecture this weekend at the arnold Classic. http://www.biolayne.com/wp-content/uploads/Norton-J-Ag-Food-Ind-Hi-Tech-2008.pdf http://www.slideshare.net/biolayne/optimal-protein-intake-and-meal-frequency-to-support-maximal-protein-synthesis-and-muscle-mass http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/protein_size_&_frequency.pdf Interview i did with layne where he chimes in a bit on this http://www.machinemuscle.com/layne-norton-interview/
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Thanks solution, I was actually just looking around to see what layne had to say about the topic.
 
Montego1 said:
Woo said I was mega dosing anything? Or did you just assume that? Cause we all know what happens when someone assumes....
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I have to agree with pre, during and post as well. (your statemet)

Pre , during and post = 3 times you use aminos, unless you were not meaning all 3 time periods in your statement

Normally I'll also getting a solid meal about an hour before training a shake about twenty minutes post training and a solid meal about forty five minutes after the shake.

Solid meal an hour before training = BCAA + EAA
, pre-workout 30 minutes before training = more BCAA,
ntra workout another 30-45 minutes later = More BCAA
, and then post workout, = more BCAA
then a shake 20 minutes after = More BCAA +EAAfrom whey protein,
then a meal 45 minutes later = BCAA + EAA


^^ Even if you ate before training and used intra-workout in a fed state it would not be optimal if protein levels were met because you are basically spiking protein levels every 30-45 minutes. basically you are eating every 30-45 minutes again is that optimal for muscle protein synthesis?

http://www.biolayne.com/wp-content/uploads/Norton-J-Ag-Food-Ind-Hi-Tech-2008.pdf
http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/protein_size_&_frequency.pdf
http://jap.physiology.org/content/106/6/2026
http://www.slideshare.net/biolayne/...ort-maximal-protein-synthesis-and-muscle-mass

"On those same lines, you have the carbophobes who have a mortal fear of insulin, yet megadose highly insulinogenic BCAA during training. What a lot of folks don’t realize is that amino acids can elicit substantial insulin responses. On those same lines, you have folks who are stuck on acute substrate utilization during training"

"Alan Aragon’s thoughts are that BCAA’s are not necessary unless you are not consuming enough BCAA’s through whole food protein (which he is in agreement with Martin). Alan continued to preach in his roundtable discussion that many individual’s are not aware of how many BCAA’s they get in real foods especially animal proteins (chicken, beef, fish etc.). Given an individual is meeting 1-1.5g of protein per day and getting adequate BCAA’s he has seen no additional research that dosing more BCAA’s or BCAA supplements is not necessary given that individual has adequate pre/post workout nutrition to fuel their body for anabolism after breaking down their bodies from a workout "

http://www.alanaragon.com/bodybuild...ragon-will-brink-jamie-hale-layne-norton.html

"D. Moore: No, this is completely wrong. If eating within maintenance levels with adequate protein, you will already be getting sufficient BCAA content. Let’s think about this. Most whole food proteins (including protein drinks) are made up of about 15 percent BCAA. Therefore, a 220-lb bodybuilder who eats 2 grams/pound/day is already receiving about 66 grams of BCAA per day. Even if cutting, most bodybuilders still eat sufficient protein. Therefore, he would still be consuming sufficient BCAA. I think somehow people started to believe that BCAAs are magical where lean mass retention is concerned.

I think most believe that during exercise our bodies are utilizing huge amounts of BCAAs for energy. While we do use some, the increase is far smaller than other macronutrients. In fact, the increased turnover in protein from exercise is only about two- to three-fold versus 20- to 30-fold for carbohydrate and fats. Now, of course, this protein should be replaced. However, I don’t believe it’s necessary to increase BCAA ingestion above what is already consumed in whole protein.

Of the three BCAAs, leucine appears to be the most important in stimulating protein synthesis in skeletal muscle. The consumption of leucine alone is nearly as effective in stimulating protein synthesis as supplying all three BCAAs. Of course, creating a synthetic environment would be very advantageous to a bodybuilder. If this could occur to any great extent during a cutting session, that would be even more advantageous. Unfortunately, there is little scientific evidence to support the idea that in a hypo-caloric state, increasing BCAA content above what is obtained from food is necessary or of any consequential advantage in increasing synthetic rates.

Recently, it was reported that co-ingestion of protein and leucine with carbohydrate stimulates muscle protein synthesis and optimizes whole-body protein balance when compared with the intake of carbohydrates alone after 45 minutes of resistance exercise. There may be some accumulating evidence now that supports the idea that orally-ingested BCAAs have an anti-catabolic effect during and after exercise. But again, there is nothing in the scientific literature that shows that these BCAAs must be supplied in a separate form from whole food.

There may be some relationship to BCAA and fatigue from low intensity, long duration exercise, but this isn’t something most bodybuilders have to be concerned with. Unless of course, their pre-contest preparation involves very long durations of exercise and they have a low fatigue threshold that they wish to increase."

http://articles.elitefts.com/nutrition/bcaa-supplementation-roundtable/
 
And to elaborate a bit more (dunno why I even bother to because if you ask ten people you will get ten different opinions) Sure I could skip my pre training meal and do fasted training with BCAA's pre. I could skip my post training shake and just have a solid meal. I could use intra workout carbs and EAA's. I could walk around the gym with an IV full of BCD.

There are 10000000 ways to skin a cat pal. This way has worked the best for me. It continues to provide results. I've tried all of those methods listed above (besides the IV because it kept getting in the way of my side laterals) SO until I find a definitively better way to go about my peri workout nutrition I'll continue on the path that has produced the greatest results for me and I will advise others to do the same. If I spend an extra sixty bucks in a year doing so.....well woopty do.

John Meadows said "I'm not going to sit around for a study to justify what I do."
 
Montego1 said:
If I spend an extra sixty bucks in a year doing so.....well woopty do.

John Meadows said "I'm not going to sit around for a study to justify what I do."
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And meadows is the last to advise mega dosing BCAA's in that fashion ,and i can guarantee you using that much BCAA's would not be 60$ if dosed in that fashion training 4-5x a week.
 
"There are 10000000 ways to skin a cat pal."

thspitcoffee (1).gif
 
The Solution said:
And meadows is the last to advise mega dosing BCAA's in that fashion ,and i can guarantee you using that much BCAA's would not be 60$ if dosed in that fashion training 4-5x a week.
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You can really twist things around can't you lol.

I didn't say meadows advised my route of peri workout nutrition. I simply mentioned a statement he made. Didn't I?
 
The Solution said:
And meadows is the last to advise mega dosing BCAA's in that fashion ,and i can guarantee you using that much BCAA's would not be 60$ if dosed in that fashion training 4-5x a week.
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Also how many BCAA am I taking pre during and post?
 
snagencyV2.0 said:
what is funny?
I don't doubt this at all..just go ask some of these all-you-can-eat Chinese buffets about the alley cat they pass off as some delicacy like, say, general tso's chicken, to mention just one..
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But don't eat top much meat cause everyone knows the body can only digest 45g of protein at a time. 45.2 NOPE! Ur fukd.
 
Montego1 said:
everyone knows the body can only digest 45g of protein at a time. 45.2 NOPE! Ur fukd.
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I thought it was 10g per hour?
some of the things ppl say are just off the wall

no worries brogan - you are big like house
I don't think you need to waste time reading something to try to fix what ain't broken..
just go maul weight, and do what you do
 
Anyways OP. Dose them however works best for you. Try different methods and pay attention to your energy levels and soreness.

Just don't take them too close to food or The Solution will try to slam your personal preference by copy/pasting 400000 articles from sources across the WWW.
 
FireRescue said:
Would an EAA also be a good option Pre? Or or is there a reason a BCAA is better than an EAA Pre?
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WHY EAA's more important than BCAA intra-workout:
but EAAs may impart some endurance-like effects that BCAAs simply cannot.

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/94/3/809.long

This is the only study done in trained humans consuming EAAs during the workout. These are legit, military-trained personnel doing both resistance and endurance work.

The findings?

"In summary, consumption of a 10-g dose of EAA enriched with leucine during moderate endurance-type exercise stimulated increased MPS when compared with an isonitrogenous EAA supplement with an amino acid profile consistent with high-quality proteins. These data indicate that increasing leucine availability during steady state exercise promotes skeletal muscle protein anabolism and spares endogenous protein."


Cliffs:

These EAAs increased postworkout MPS by 33% when consumed during exercise
The drink with the highest leucine content spared muscle to the greatest degree
 
The Solution said:
WHY EAA's more important than BCAA intra-workout:
but EAAs may impart some endurance-like effects that BCAAs simply cannot.

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/94/3/809.long

This is the only study done in trained humans consuming EAAs during the workout. These are legit, military-trained personnel doing both resistance and endurance work.

The findings?

"In summary, consumption of a 10-g dose of EAA enriched with leucine during moderate endurance-type exercise stimulated increased MPS when compared with an isonitrogenous EAA supplement with an amino acid profile consistent with high-quality proteins. These data indicate that increasing leucine availability during steady state exercise promotes skeletal muscle protein anabolism and spares endogenous protein."


Cliffs:

These EAAs increased postworkout MPS by 33% when consumed during exercise
The drink with the highest leucine content spared muscle to the greatest degree
Click to expand...

You nailed it, hence the logic behind Amino IV
 
Thanks for the info but my question was about PreWO. Mr. Cooper mentioned that BCAA would be best Pre while EAA's Intra.

Would an EAA also be a good option PreWO? Or or is there a reason a that Cooper stated "A pure BCAA is best suited preworkout"?

More simply put, would a leucine rich EAA supplement be of a greater benefit PreWO than the said BCAA supplement stated previously?

Thank you again.
 
FireRescue said:
Thanks for the info but my question was about PreWO. Mr. Cooper mentioned that BCAA would be best Pre while EAA's Intra.

Would an EAA also be a good option PreWO? Or or is there a reason a that Cooper stated "A pure BCAA is best suited preworkout"?

More simply put, would a leucine rich EAA supplement be of a greater benefit PreWO than the said BCAA supplement stated previously?

Thank you again.
Click to expand...

Read the study above, it already shows you why EAA = Better intra-workout so that leaves BCAA = Superior pre-workout.
 
Edit
 
I drink upon hearing the whistle

[video=youtube;JZD-ADArwXo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZD-ADArwXo[/video]
 
double s said:
Curious for those that use BCAA's, when do you take it?

I personally use them intra but in doing some research, it has been recommended as a Pre to kind of flood the system.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

I have one serving pre if I'm fasted and always one serving intra
 
I'm currently running BCAAs pre and intra mixed with my HBCDs and then I eat a nice meal within an hour post wo.
 
Protein Shake and Carbs before, BCAA's during, Protein Shake after (offseason will add carbs intra and post as well).
 
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