Back to the basics

[Jeremyk1]

Yeah I'm really curious to see what weight my boy lands at by end of season. his first match is next week and he's 179 now, but once he burns off the baby fat I could see him under 170 even. he wants to do a picture every day to make a time lapse of how his body changes over the season. if I could get him to lift........................ his structure is far superior to mine. I think he could chase high school records in the next 5 years.

Ah that’s awesome! My son is 6, so it’ll be a while before we get any serious sports stuff!

 

[Dustin07]

Ah that’s awesome! My son is 6, so it’ll be a while before we get any serious sports stuff!

dude I'm super happy about it. I've let him try everything... golf, baseball (my favorite), basketball, etc and his first week into wrestling this is the most excited I've seen him. I think 2 years of pandemic and video games all the sudden he's seeing what the body is capable of and it's creating a new excitement for him, a much needed one.

 

[MrKleen73]

Yeah I'm really curious to see what weight my boy lands at by end of season. his first match is next week and he's 179 now, but once he burns off the baby fat I could see him under 170 even. he wants to do a picture every day to make a time lapse of how his body changes over the season. if I could get him to lift........................ his structure is far superior to mine. I think he could chase high school records in the next 5 years.

Wow surprised with wrestling he is not interested in lifting. That is one sport where being stronger is an obvious advantage.

 

[Dustin07]

Wow surprised with wrestling he is not interested in lifting. That is one sport where being stronger is an obvious advantage.

Here's what I think and hope. He played baseball for years. Turned 11 during the first lockdowns of the pandemic and was likely stunted for 2 years due to a lack of social interaction, sports etc. He can outdrive his grandpa in golf, and can lift the entire stack on the leg machines grandpa has in his home gym. Now that he's 13, back to school, I think he is starting to catch up to where he should be in terms of maturity, other guys, girls, etc and I'm HOPING, that as he sees that awe of personal physical development he will fall in love with it as we all have.

And if he doesn't, I'm going to force him too because I want him in his 20s, 30s, and 40s to have a body that KNEW exercise in its pubescents years lol. But i'm currently just encouraging because If I force it, he'll hate it...

I'm a major believer that what you do through puberty guides your body for life.

 

[MrKleen73]

Agreed, training during your teen years really gives you a leg up on others. There are a lot of things going on during puberty that make training during that time immensely valuable even later in life.

 

[Jeremyk1]

Agreed, training during your teen years really gives you a leg up on others. There are a lot of things going on during puberty that make training during that time immensely valuable even later in life.

This wouldn’t surprise me. When I was young, I did a ton of bench pressing. I’m way more balanced now, but still can almost bench as much as I squat or even deadlift.

 

[Resolve10]

Agreed, training during your teen years really gives you a leg up on others. There are a lot of things going on during puberty that make training during that time immensely valuable even later in life.

Definitely. It's late here so I'm fading and don't have the specifics on hand but there is a lot of research into several "prime" times during youth that are especially important. The body can make tremendous neurological leaps in youth that can set you up for not only much better results later on, but also that ability to learn movements much quicker.

Even if actual strength and muscle isn't being attained at certain ages it definitely lays a blueprint and foundation for exceptional results later on if done right.

 

[Smont]

dude I'm super happy about it. I've let him try everything... golf, baseball (my favorite), basketball, etc and his first week into wrestling this is the most excited I've seen him. I think 2 years of pandemic and video games all the sudden he's seeing what the body is capable of and it's creating a new excitement for him, a much needed one.

I wrestled from age 5-21, it was my main sport. Even tho most ppl won't make the Olympics or get a college scholarship for wrestling, there's something about wrestling for years on end that turns people into superior athletes and wrestlers usually transfer over to strength training and bodybuilders very well too. I really think it boils down to hard work. Once you have been through some hardcore wrestling camps and are wrestling high level high school and college wrestlers you will find that almost nothing is harder. It will make all other sport specific training feel like a cake walk

 

[Smont]

I was not implying that I made the Olympics lol, just wanted to throw that out there . My point was it's way harder to make it to a college or higher from wrestling then with other sports.

I was winning championships and going undefeated on the east coast and the farther west I went for tournaments the more I realized I was a big fish in a small pond.

I went through a whole season one year and one every single match by pin in the first 36-0, just to move on to a bigger tournament and by the time I had gotten to I think Pennsylvania I was the number 2 ranked guy getting smoked by guys ranked 15 and 16.

They were just significantly better wrestlers

 

[Dustin07]

I wrestled from age 5-21, it was my main sport. Even tho most ppl won't make the Olympics or get a college scholarship for wrestling, there's something about wrestling for years on end that turns people into superior athletes and wrestlers usually transfer over to strength training and bodybuilders very well too. I really think it boils down to hard work. Once you have been through some hardcore wrestling camps and are wrestling high level high school and college wrestlers you will find that almost nothing is harder. It will make all other sport specific training feel like a cake walk

Back when CrossFit was "dangerous", bloody, sweaty, and chalky I got into competing and one thing I said over and over was it was the hardest sport I had found since wrestling in high school and I think that's what I loved the most about it. the brutality and struggle.

 

[MrKleen73]

I didn't keep my grades up enough to stay in sports unfortunately but I did train with the wrestling team for a bit before I failed out of it and loved it. I remember my coach being excited for me because he said I had raw talent and ability, then when I failed out he was so pissed off at me he found reasons to whip me throughout the rest of that year. LMAO. It wasn't hard, I was a bit of a wild child.

I think most of my "training" was just growing up in a time where fighting, wrestling, being strongest, fastest and toughest was just the way of where I grew up. I wanted to outdo everyone when it came to physicality and normally did. I often wish I could have got my grades up and truly experienced what I might have been able to do in wrestling, or football or any of that if I could have gotten my chit together and kept my grades up. I was that kid who taught myself how to do handsprings. flips, walking on my hands and ariels. I am sure all of that helped me become even more athletic and stronger. I am definitely a standout within my family. Also I did start lifting at 12 so...

 

[Dustin07]

I didn't keep my grades up enough to stay in sports unfortunately but I did train with the wrestling team for a bit before I failed out of it and loved it. I remember my coach being excited for me because he said I had raw talent and ability, then when I failed out he was so pissed off at me he found reasons to whip me throughout the rest of that year. LMAO. It wasn't hard, I was a bit of a wild child.

I think most of my "training" was just growing up in a time where fighting, wrestling, being strongest, fastest and toughest was just the way of where I grew up. I wanted to outdo everyone when it came to physicality and normally did. I often wish I could have got my grades up and truly experienced what I might have been able to do in wrestling, or football or any of that if I could have gotten my chit together and kept my grades up. I was that kid who taught myself how to do handsprings. flips, walking on my hands and ariels. I am sure all of that helped me become even more athletic and stronger. I am definitely a standout within my family. Also I did start lifting at 12 so...

yes sir. we were farm raised and experienced something similar. went to fights every week, had some at school. got through with decent grades but had to work / scam my way through. my boy is far more school focused than I was, I was far more physically focused. sports, punching bags, lifting weights started around 13 when I was racing bmx.

 

[Smont]

Did we leave off on a good ending point here or should I continue on?

 

[ReformedNerd]

Did we leave off on a good ending point here or should I continue on?

Continue

 

[Smont]

I love this thread but this part cracked me up. I haven't weighed 145 since 8th grade. Wrestled 148 in 9th grade lol. My boy weighed in at 180 and started wrestling yesterday. (my guess is he'll weigh 170 by end of week...haha)

The sad fact of the matter is that 90% of the guys I see in the commercial gym are 20% bf or higher. Most of them if the dieted correct and got in shape would weight around 145lbs.

There's also a massive difference between 180lb teenager and 180lb adult who's bodybuilding.

Frank Zane is 185lbs in this picture. I don't see too many ppl walking around sub 200lbs looking like this.

My only point is that ppl only tend to see the numbers on the scale.

Even last time I dieted down to 180 I was significantly smaller then I thought I would be but I was still bigger and more muscular then the 180lb teenager me.

I'm in good shape here but frank Zane is the same height and weight as me in this picture but he looks significantly bigger and better. Like he probably has 10 extra lbs of muscle and 10 less pounds of fat.

Unfortunately I'm supposed to shrink back down to that over the next 8 weeks.

Not very excited for that.

 

[Smont]

Il bet anything tho il be significantly better looking at 180 this time around as I've put on somewhere between 5-7lbs of muscle over the last year.

Luckily it's only temporary, then I can rebound again and add 30-40lbs.


This brings me to another point.

You see these guys online gaining 30+ lbs on cycles but on the forum when someone goes on cycle they gain like 10lbs or they get fat.

The reason for this is because they never get lean.

I'm sitting at 202 right now and I have abs, I gotta drop anoth 20ish lbs of fat and then probably cut water ect.

By the end il be shredded. Now when I go back on a cycle, if I eat correctly and don't binge the first 3-4 weeks il gain 20lbs which will appear to be all muscle because of muscle memory and glycogen stores filling back up. Now your at 200lbs and very lean and can still grind out another 15lbs or so before you start getting fat.

But everyone likes to start there cycles at 15-18% where they should be ending there cycles around 15-18% bf. So they start there cycles kinda fat and don't give themselves room to grow.

This gives me some ideas for how to continue this thread, tonight il start what I'm going to call building past the basics. Idk I could probably think of a better name lol.

But it's just going to be about achieving goals. Setting yourself up for continuing progress.

I've been going back and forth from 180-220 for the past 2 years or so because of weight classes but after this cut I'm doing Im probably never gonna be able to get to the 178lb class.

I'm rambling again and I forgot my point lol. Il get back to this later this afternoon when I can get some quiet time to make posts. Got mayhem in my house at the moment

 

[jmero2]

This thread is gold. Thank you Smont.
I'm going to send this link to my group.

 

[Smont]

Sorry I got caught up last night, I'm waiting on D.O.T. to show up so I can start this job right now so I got a minute and I wanted to make some notes so I know where to start tonight.

Let's say we are on to a intermediate lifter status. We now have established a base of muscle and strength but now we wanna add more size and some detail. It's time to get more specific with our diet and training.

Training: generally there's to schools here. If you like lifting hard and heavy and going to failure with some big weights then DC style training might be for you. Or maybe you like lifting moderate weight but you like to chase that pump and don't mind being in the gym for over a hour, then volume training is for you. I suggest renaissance periodization style routines here.

Regardless of which one you pick, either can fall into a ppl format and that were we are going.

This is probably where we need to implement dedicated phases to bulking and cutting. Newbie gains are gone and your not going to recomp any more.

This is also where we might consider gear. If your average height 5'9ish and your single digit body fat weighing 165-180 then you may be maxed out on naturally attainable lean body mass, sure you can bulk up to 200-220 and add some more muscle but you will not maintain that when you cut back down. There are a few exceptions, but look at the pictures above. Frank Zane is 5'9 185 lb and probably somewhere between 6 and 7% body fat in that picture. If you think you can achieve that natural your a little delusional or you may have the world's greatest genetics. So if you're natural and you're 5'9 and you weigh 220 you probably have over 50 lb of body fat to lose. We're all smaller and fatter than we think we are and until you've done a real cut down to single digit body fat trust me you have no clue how much body fat you're carrying.

I got to end this right here and I'm going to pick back up later tonight and talk about training programs and beginner cycles if that's what you guys are interested in

 

[Dustin07]

Did I understand you correctly that you're looking at a 20lb cut over 8 weeks?

 

[Smont]

Did I understand you correctly that you're looking at a 20lb cut over 8 weeks?

208-178, I'm down to 202, 24lbs.

It involves hunger and muscle loss lol.

I've done it before and it really sucks but as long as it doesn't f****** your head too much as soon as you start eating and I do things normal the weight comes right back on and it always comes back on looking better than it did before.

Trying to fight in January at 178

 

[Smont]

Just to be clear here that is not the optimal way to cut body fat if your goals are physique related, physique has no importance in what I'm doing at the moment so I don't really care if I lose muscle and get weaker for the moment, it's a temporary necessity to make a weight class

 

[GreenMachineX]

Sorry I got caught up last night, I'm waiting on D.O.T. to show up so I can start this job right now so I got a minute and I wanted to make some notes so I know where to start tonight.

Let's say we are on to a intermediate lifter status. We now have established a base of muscle and strength but now we wanna add more size and some detail. It's time to get more specific with our diet and training.

Training: generally there's to schools here. If you like lifting hard and heavy and going to failure with some big weights then DC style training might be for you. Or maybe you like lifting moderate weight but you like to chase that pump and don't mind being in the gym for over a hour, then volume training is for you. I suggest renaissance periodization style routines here.

Regardless of which one you pick, either can fall into a ppl format and that were we are going.

This is probably where we need to implement dedicated phases to bulking and cutting. Newbie gains are gone and your not going to recomp any more.

This is also where we might consider gear. If your average height 5'9ish and your single digit body fat weighing 165-180 then you may be maxed out on naturally attainable lean body mass, sure you can bulk up to 200-220 and add some more muscle but you will not maintain that when you cut back down. There are a few exceptions, but look at the pictures above. Frank Zane is 5'9 185 lb and probably somewhere between 6 and 7% body fat in that picture. If you think you can achieve that natural your a little delusional or you may have the world's greatest genetics. So if you're natural and you're 5'9 and you weigh 220 you probably have over 50 lb of body fat to lose. We're all smaller and fatter than we think we are and until you've done a real cut down to single digit body fat trust me you have no clue how much body fat you're carrying.

I got to end this right here and I'm going to pick back up later tonight and talk about training programs and beginner cycles if that's what you guys are interested in

Lol you're right on target for me...5'9" at 220 with 50 pounds of fat to lose
It's hard for me to think I'm at my genetic limit though because i don't think I'm that big.

 

[Smont]

Lol you're right on target for me...5'9" at 220 with 50 pounds of fat to lose
It's hard for me to think I'm at my genetic limit though because i don't think I'm that big.

It's tough man, I remember being 223 and strong as **** thinking.... All I gotta do is loose 10 lbs and il have a 6 pack and look jacked and shredded. 23lbs later I found my abs, another 20lbs and I found shredded. This was when I learned the importance of getting lean before a bulk and always maintaining abs or at least a outline of abs. Everything became easier after that

 

[Dustin07]

208-178, I'm down to 202, 24lbs.

It involves hunger and muscle loss lol.

I've done it before and it really sucks but as long as it doesn't f****** your head too much as soon as you start eating and I do things normal the weight comes right back on and it always comes back on looking better than it did before.

Trying to fight in January at 178

No I get that. Even as a natural guy at 40 I'm still a little mind blown how I do still pack more mass year after year with hard work and a cut is heavier and heavier each time. what was 164lbs was 172lbs was 176lbs. Today I'm sitting about 187 and plan to start an 8 week cut in Dec so I'm just mentally prepping myself. I'm currently reverse dieting, hoping to ramp up the metabolism while focusing heavily on strength before I go into that cut because come end of Feb, I'll want to roll back into a better strength cycle again.

I'll technically have like 2 weeks, then a one week vacation with my wife which will be murder on a cut... then I'll have a solid 6 weeks when we get home so we'll see what the results are.

 

[Smont]

No I get that. Even as a natural guy at 40 I'm still a little mind blown how I do still pack more mass year after year with hard work and a cut is heavier and heavier each time. what was 164lbs was 172lbs was 176lbs. Today I'm sitting about 187 and plan to start an 8 week cut in Dec so I'm just mentally prepping myself. I'm currently reverse dieting, hoping to ramp up the metabolism while focusing heavily on strength before I go into that cut because come end of Feb, I'll want to roll back into a better strength cycle again.

I'll technically have like 2 weeks, then a one week vacation with my wife which will be murder on a cut... then I'll have a solid 6 weeks when we get home so we'll see what the results are.

I really believe that you get 2 peaks for building muscle outside of newbie gains.

Your mid 20's everything seems to click and then I see guys start making progress again around 40.


Given the ppl I'm about to mention are enhanced but look at the Olympia the past few years. Ramy, Phill, Brandon, and so many others started making progress again out of nowhere as they approached 40 and even older.

The guy from anabolic bodybuilding put on 50lbs of quality muscle "some was definitely muscle memory" but he's like 48.

Dexter Jackson was a beast till 50.

Kamal is his best ever at like 51

Crazy

 

[Dustin07]

I really believe that you get 2 peaks for building muscle outside of newbie gains.

Your mid 20's everything seems to click and then I see guys start making progress again around 40.


Given the ppl I'm about to mention are enhanced but look at the Olympia the past few years. Ramy, Phill, Brandon, and so many others started making progress again out of nowhere as they approached 40 and even older.

The guy from anabolic bodybuilding put on 50lbs of quality muscle "some was definitely muscle memory" but he's like 48.

Dexter Jackson was a beast till 50.

Kamal is his best ever at like 51

Crazy

you might be very well right although like you most of my references are enhanced dudes. Just look at sports like Baseball. a natural hitters bellcurve peaks at age 30/31. But those guys juicing had a second bellcurve around age 40. Compare for instance Ken Griffey Jr (perfect example) to Bonds, Sosa, etc.

BUT at 40 I personally am making some changes. 3-5 sessions a week vs double that. no two a days (unless it's LISS). Doing LISS more often instead of HIIT and xfit style. Adding volume to small limbs (biceps) cutting volume on intense stuff (deadlifts). and what I'm seeing is thicker size in my arms, shoulders etc and my latest strength cycle I just did took me back to 7 yr old PR territory which used to take me years to get to when my volume was too high.

I'm also increasing calories (protein) instead of cutting calories further when scale stalls, and seeing that my waist measurement is holding or shrinking while scale is flat or slightly up. I'm definitely hitting things with a different approach now and being more cautious about strength and muscle preservation rather than "it wasn't a workout if I can walk out of here"

 

[Smont]

I'm sorry guys I been slacking, work has been crazy, I been leaving my house around 4am and getting home at 7pm and I'm dealing with a nasty tooth ache that's hopefully getting pulled today.

I think I last mentioned picking between DC or high intensity vs RP style volume training. I have been a big fan of short 45min high intensity workouts with heavy weights for a long time and recently switching over to volume. Now when I was in my late teens and into my 20's heavy weight, explosive reps, rest pause and drop sets. Or even heavy straight sets of 5-6 reps all worked great but volume didn't do much for me. Now I'm 37 and finding that volume is working better. I do think everybody needs to find what works for them but I also think if you spend too long with one kind of style eventually you need to switch just to mix it up. But I don't want people to read that and think that they need to switch their workouts up all the time.

Ronnie Coleman followed the same training program his entire career, high intensity heavy weight training pushing past failure. Jay Cutler also train the exact same way his entire career but his way was high volume and nothing to failure.

So don't go switching things up every couple of months before you even give things time to work.

I'm gonna lay out a intermediate modified ppl high volume workout.

For most body parts were doing 3 exercises

3 chest
3 triceps
3 delts
3-4 quads
3 hams
3-4 back
2-3 biceps
2-3 calves

We're looking to start our training with 12 total sets per body part. Maybe slightly more sets for quads and back and maybe slightly less sets for biceps and calves.

So let's take just for example, we're looking to do 12 total sets after we are warmed up.

Incline bench 4x8-12
Machine fly 4x8-12
Hammer strength chest press 4x8-12

16 total work sets, every set should be hard to the point your slightly struggling to get those 8 to 12 reps but you're not truly failing.

If anyone wants a layout for the full ppl workout il post it but I'm trying to save time right now and not make this post endless.

 

[Smont]

Now we have to schedule our training blocks or training cycle or whatever you want to call it.

Weeks 1-3 = 12 working sets per body part

Weeks 4-6 = 14-16 sets per body part. We may also need a deload here if we're in a cutting phase but if in a surplus and not training to failure we should be good still

Weeks 7-11 = 16-18 sets per body part

Weeks 12 on were doing 20 sets per body part. This is probably where I would stop adding sets, I've seen ppl go up to 30 sets per body part so it may be worth exploring but it seems excessive. In a cutting phase we might deload again somewhere around here. If in a mass phase I would probably only deload 1 time in the middle of the 16 weeks. Me personally I wouldn't deload at all. I perfer to just occasionally take a extra rest day here and there and avoid deload unless I know I need it.

Now, you don't have to do 20 sets for say chest all in one workout.

If your training 5-6x week your going to have multiple training sessions per body part.

Instead of doing 20-24 sets for chest on monday, you could do 10 to 12 on Monday and 10 to 12 again on Thursday.

Let me know if I'm being clear. Im a little drowsy from taking a couple ibuprofen nighttime formula and 12mg thc around 3am for some tooth pain lol. But I think Im being fairly clear so far.

 

[Dustin07]

I agree with you about mixing it up. What's funny is I'm now trying to add more volume to squat sessions and bench sessions, but lower volume and higher weight for smaller groups (biceps for instance). After a lifetime of hitting 8-12+ reps looking for the pump on biceps I'm going heavier than I ever used to go for sets of 5-6 reps and for the first time in a long time, seeing growth there. Squats for me... need more volume though.

How much rest do you take on training sets? I've been letting myself take more time on my heavy sets (of 3 or 5 for instance at whatever % of 1rm that may be, probably 80%+) to help avoid failure. But on accessory lifts my rests are only long enough to catch my breath and heartrate.

 

[Smont]

I agree with you about mixing it up. What's funny is I'm now trying to add more volume to squat sessions and bench sessions, but lower volume and higher weight for smaller groups (biceps for instance). After a lifetime of hitting 8-12+ reps looking for the pump on biceps I'm going heavier than I ever used to go for sets of 5-6 reps and for the first time in a long time, seeing growth there. Squats for me... need more volume though.

How much rest do you take on training sets? I've been letting myself take more time on my heavy sets (of 3 or 5 for instance at whatever % of 1rm that may be, probably 80%+) to help avoid failure. But on accessory lifts my rests are only long enough to catch my breath and heartrate.

Sorry dude I been busy I wasn't ignoring the post.

I also am trying to work up my volume and legs I think most importantly needs more volume. I also like you and doing more volume on big body parts. Arms "specifically biceps I go a little heavier sometimes.

I typically only rest 45sec to a min on volume sets and about 1.5 minutes on heavier sets. But if I'm lifting heavy and going for a five rep or less set or it's going to be my last set I'll give myself more time like three four maybe even 5 minutes rest before that all out set

 

[Dustin07]

Getting a full session in within 45 minutes is tough as nails for me. I think todays was about 80 minutes:

warm up = leg ext and leg curls (mostly cause I was waiting for a squat rack to open)
working sets (triples and doubles squats)
back off sets (3 x 6)
front squats (3 sets of 5 + back off 2 sets of 10)
Bulgarian squats (3 sets)

But a lot of it is the amount of rest I take at those top working sets. I'd rather take an extra 60 seconds when needed to ensure I get all 3 or 5 reps then go in too early and miss a rep.

 

[MrKleen73]

Good stuff man, nice of you taking some time to assist the new guys and remond some of the more experienced guys things they may have forgotten.

 

[Dustin07]

Good stuff man, nice of you taking some time to assist the new guys and remond some of the more experienced guys things they may have forgotten.

The hardest part about being a gym rat for 24 years is accidentally getting stuck in a repetitive groove and not mixing it up! Old dogs gotta learn new tricks....

 

[MrKleen73]

Getting a full session in within 45 minutes is tough as nails for me. I think todays was about 80 minutes:

warm up = leg ext and leg curls (mostly cause I was waiting for a squat rack to open)
working sets (triples and doubles squats)
back off sets (3 x 6)
front squats (3 sets of 5 + back off 2 sets of 10)
Bulgarian squats (3 sets)

But a lot of it is the amount of rest I take at those top working sets. I'd rather take an extra 60 seconds when needed to ensure I get all 3 or 5 reps then go in too early and miss a rep.

Depends on the focus when focusing on strength 2-4 minutes depending on the body part is pretty good. However you aren't focusing on making muscular gains there, lower rep range with shorter rest than that will be more hypertrophic due to some of the metabolic things. That and then things like arms, you aren't going to get winded or need tons of recovery time. Also if shortening rest periods with lower reps that is when peri workout nutrition really shines in my opinion. The faster you can get ATP refreshed the faster you can get back to work if the set it not beating up your CNS which smaller muscles aren't really going to do.

 

[Smont]

Getting a full session in within 45 minutes is tough as nails for me. I think todays was about 80 minutes:

warm up = leg ext and leg curls (mostly cause I was waiting for a squat rack to open)
working sets (triples and doubles squats)
back off sets (3 x 6)
front squats (3 sets of 5 + back off 2 sets of 10)
Bulgarian squats (3 sets)

But a lot of it is the amount of rest I take at those top working sets. I'd rather take an extra 60 seconds when needed to ensure I get all 3 or 5 reps then go in too early and miss a rep.

Yeah typically if I'm lifting for strength I have long rest. And my workouts can take about an hour and a half, if I'm following a high intensity program there's only usually one working set per muscle group with like a few intensifiers or extenders but those workouts go pretty quick and that's where 45 minute workout would happen. These higher volume workouts even though my rest is fairly short there's a lot of total sets between the warm-ups and the working sets and those workouts take like an hour and a half.

But those 45 minute high intensity style workouts will leave you feeling way more taxed than a one and a half or two hour volume workout if you do it right.

 

[MrKleen73]

Yeah typically if I'm lifting for strength I have long rest. And my workouts can take about an hour and a half, if I'm following a high intensity program there's only usually one working set per muscle group with like a few intensifiers or extenders but those workouts go pretty quick and that's where 45 minute workout would happen. These higher volume workouts even though my rest is fairly short there's a lot of total sets between the warm-ups and the working sets and those workouts take like an hour and a half.

But those 45 minute high intensity style workouts will leave you feeling way more taxed than a one and a half or two hour volume workout if you do it right.

That was my bread and butter for a very long time. I built a lot of my muscle that way. Low volume high intensity, lots of failure, double and single drop sets or rest pauses. After a while though my connective tissue told me I had to limit that stuff big time. I still love to push it hard and my idea of an easy workout I push harder than a lot of people who say they are working hard.

 

[Smont]

That was my bread and butter for a very long time. I built a lot of my muscle that way. Low volume high intensity, lots of failure, double and single drop sets or rest pauses. After a while though my connective tissue told me I had to limit that stuff big time. I still love to push it hard and my idea of an easy workout I push harder than a lot of people who say they are working hard.

I started out doing the beginner 3 day full body like I said in the beginning of this thread, then I tried various styles of training over the years but it always circled back to a ppl or a modified version of it and a DC style training. Which worked fantastic, that's what got me back to where I'm at now too.

But

Lots of shoulder problems, some lower back problems, a minor hernia and sore knees and I still work in my heavy sets, I still occasionally go to or beyond failure, but more and more I'm working into the volume now. I'm not saying that volume training is better but as you get older it makes more sense and because I didn't do a lot of volume in my younger days it's like a brand new stimulus and it seems to be working great.

Here's an example, sunday's workout was

As you can see I'm stubborn and I can't help but pinching heavy LOL got a stroke that ego! But after my heavy set I work in my volume and I finish up every other exercise with volume. The rest of the workout was pretty much nothing to failure with the exception of that drop set on the dumbbell skull crushers because I still get to a point where I feel like man I'm getting sick of doing all these sets. But my main goal right now is to keep adding the volume not to mention it makes these longer workouts help me burn a few extra calories while working on muscular endurance. Very short rest everything in that workout was between 30 seconds and a minute rest.

With the exception of that heavy bench, doing these 10 to 15 rep sets, set after set seems to be working good. Eventually il work my way up to 24 sets per body part and that'll be the end of my program I'll make some tweaks and then start over.

Right now the biggest problem for me is getting in the gym. I can kill it on the weekends but during the week it's rough I just got to squeeze in whatever I can because my job's got me on the road all day and night.

By the way that's why this thread went kind of dead is because of work, I'm getting up at 3:00 a.m. out the door by 4: 15, I got to go to the shop and then meet up in another town around 5:30 a.m. and then we all drive together to the job site to be there for 7:00 then we get done between 3:30 and 4:30 p.m. and it's a 3-hour ride home. When I get home from work it's literally 7 and 1/2 to 8 hours from the time I'm supposed to get up again.

So that push workout I got the majority of my volume in and then on Wednesday il throw in a couple sets for chest and triceps at the end of my boxing workout

 

[JackNant]

Thankyou for writing this despite your busy work/ life.

 

[Dustin07]

I started out doing the beginner 3 day full body like I said in the beginning of this thread, then I tried various styles of training over the years but it always circled back to a ppl or a modified version of it and a DC style training. Which worked fantastic, that's what got me back to where I'm at now too.

But

Lots of shoulder problems, some lower back problems, a minor hernia and sore knees and I still work in my heavy sets, I still occasionally go to or beyond failure, but more and more I'm working into the volume now. I'm not saying that volume training is better but as you get older it makes more sense and because I didn't do a lot of volume in my younger days it's like a brand new stimulus and it seems to be working great.

Here's an example, sunday's workout wasView attachment 225108

As you can see I'm stubborn and I can't help but pinching heavy LOL got a stroke that ego! But after my heavy set I work in my volume and I finish up every other exercise with volume. The rest of the workout was pretty much nothing to failure with the exception of that drop set on the dumbbell skull crushers because I still get to a point where I feel like man I'm getting sick of doing all these sets. But my main goal right now is to keep adding the volume not to mention it makes these longer workouts help me burn a few extra calories while working on muscular endurance. Very short rest everything in that workout was between 30 seconds and a minute rest.

With the exception of that heavy bench, doing these 10 to 15 rep sets, set after set seems to be working good. Eventually il work my way up to 24 sets per body part and that'll be the end of my program I'll make some tweaks and then start over.

Right now the biggest problem for me is getting in the gym. I can kill it on the weekends but during the week it's rough I just got to squeeze in whatever I can because my job's got me on the road all day and night.

By the way that's why this thread went kind of dead is because of work, I'm getting up at 3:00 a.m. out the door by 4: 15, I got to go to the shop and then meet up in another town around 5:30 a.m. and then we all drive together to the job site to be there for 7:00 then we get done between 3:30 and 4:30 p.m. and it's a 3-hour ride home. When I get home from work it's literally 7 and 1/2 to 8 hours from the time I'm supposed to get up again.

So that push workout I got the majority of my volume in and then on Wednesday il throw in a couple sets for chest and triceps at the end of my boxing workout

Good stuff man. I have always been the opposite. I think probably 20 years really of too much volume.
On the flip side, I feel like when I do a heavy set and leave, I'm not really creating enough stimulus so now I'm doing more sets of less reps but I feel like sorta what you said above, I'm creating a new stimulus my body isn't already used to and am seeing results again finally.

it's hard for me to not want to finish say a 5 rep bench day with 10, 15, or 20 rep sets at 50% for the pump but I'm trying to replace those back off sets with very heavy complimentary movements in the sub 8-10 rep range. (say after a 3-5 rep bench set, finish with heavy weighted dips in the 6-10 rep range instead of pounding out 15 or 20 reps at bodyweight etc.. that kinda stuff. or db press etc.)

 

[kisaj]

32 years in the gym and have done about every program under the sun, including sport/competition specific conditioning. 48 now and I've gone back to the basic 4 big lifts with minimal accessory work with complimentary HIIT on off days. Strength has gone up considerably and recently hit PRs, which blows my mind.