Back to the basics

[Smont]

Im starting this thread to lay out the basic stuff that everyone likes to skip over these days.
.I'm going to start with training, then move on to BASIC nutrition and then supplements.

If you cannot bench press 1.25x your body weight or squat or deadlift 2x bodyweight then this workout is for you. While strength is not the primary driver of muscle growth, being stronger allows you to move more weight for reps which in turn is more potential for muscle growth. I also like to use a full body 3x week program for beginner and sometimes intermediate lifters to drill the basics into them. Lots of practice and progression at a few basic exercises.


Just so I'm not overloading too much into each post I'll come back later and post the next segment.

 

[MrKleen73]

Following along to watch you teach. Maybe even be reminded of something I stopped doing over the years. As for a basic set up I like on the full body stuff HST has always been a favorite of mine to drive progressive overload.

 

[Smont]

Following along to watch you teach. Maybe even be reminded of something I stopped doing over the years. As for a basic set up I like on the full body stuff HST has always been a favorite of mine to drive progressive overload.

Yep, full body 3x a week is what I reccomend to someone who's new or fairly new or someone who's looking to dramatically increase their strength given that they already don't have a high level of strength.

Flat bench
Pulldown
Squat
Incline bench
Bent over row
Leg press

After a warm upset or 2 you're going to do three working sets of six reps, if you can get all three sets for six reps that means you need to add 5 lb to the bar and it's as simple as that. There is absolutely no need to overcomplicate things or add intensity techniques or anything like that.
If you are afraid of injuring yourself you can work in a higher rep range but I would still work on adding 5 lb to the bar each week.

I like to see two pressing movements like a flat bench and an incline bench or a shoulder press, I like to see two pulling movements a vertical and horizontal pull, and I like to see two leg exercises like a squat and a leg press or a squat and a stiff leg deadlift or even squats and deadlifts.

Now obviously the more advanced you get it's going to be hard to bench press 300 lb squat 400 lb in deadlift 500 lb all in the same workout. But until you're getting close to those numbers it can be done.

My first training program ever that was successful was similar to this, except I was doing hang cleans or clean and press in place of the seccond leg movement most days because building explosive power and strength was my goal at the time.

I was a teenager so diet wasn't that serious. I ate the normal three meals a day like I always did but I squeezed a peanut butter and jelly sandwich and a carton of milk in between each meal after 2 months I started doing two peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and two cartons of milk in between each meal and so on. Now obviously the older you get the more specific you need to be with your nutrition as a 40 or 50 year old man isn't going to have abs eating peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and drinking cartons of milk all day. But we don't need to overcomplicate the diet too much either when it's early on in your training. A simple caloric surplus with adequate protein or a caloric deficit with adequate protein will help you reach your goals. I want to clarify though that during this phase where you're lifting 3 days a week and working on building up your strength you probably don't want to be in a caloric deficit.

As an intermediate to an advanced lifter this routine is also beneficial from time to time, well I don't think you're going to continually make progress out of year-round, having phases where you switch to a three day a week full body routine will help you increase your strength numbers if they've been stagnant for a while because you have more time and more effort to put into these lifts and you also have more days off to recover.

I am not in the school where less is better when it comes to training but I also don't think you should overdo it. The problem is that most people think they're overdoing it when in reality they're not working hard enough.

If you want some arm specific training and you have time at the end of your full body workouts throw in some hammer curls or some tricep press Downs whatever you choose. Just make sure you're trying to progressively overload those exercises in a slightly higher rep range you don't want to tear a bicep or screw up your elbows with four to six rep curls and press Downs.

Another alternative is to do your full body workout on Monday Wednesday Friday and then make Saturday an arms day

 

[BOSSMAN]

I'm all over this, thanks brother

 

[Smont]

Basic diet outline or guidelines will be next. Il get around to that this afternoon

 

[Brocodeout69]

Great stuff @Smont This should be pinned/stickied to avoid repeated, and some times unnecessary questions, or used as a post to be referred too when those questions about basic training are asked.

 

[ZLB70]

These are the type of threads we need more of

 

[Jeremyk1]

Can we just skip to the part about steroids because I want to get swole without hard work!

Or maybe instead of joking, I could say thanks Smont! Looks pretty good honestly.

 

[MrKleen73]

Good stuff of course! That looks a lot like my old HST split. Progression was a bit different with it but really the same progressive overload premise.

 

[match]

In to make sure I get the updates. I'm getting people every few weeks who come to me for advice on getting started, so your posts MIGHT be getting copy/pasted.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Interesting thread. I'm coming off a layoff and do full body twice per week, the "minimum effective dose" workout that Greg Nuckols laid out in a Stronger By Science podcast, but I add a little vanity work in too.

 

[Smont]

Can we just skip to the part about steroids because I want to get swole without hard work!

Or maybe instead of joking, I could say thanks Smont! Looks pretty good honestly.

That's a real problem tho for a lot of ppl. I know guys who are taking well over a gram of gear away 150 lb because they think it's just the gear and they refuse to eat.

On that note let's go to diet and supplements and we'll do steroids last.

 

[Smont]

If you're just getting into things stop worrying about fad diets, carb cycling, micronutrient and macronutrient breakdown etc.

Giving you don't have any health conditions or medical concerns or allergies just keep it simple.

Lean Meat, rice, fruits and vegetables.

Now you don't have to take this too literal, obviously you can swap out rice for potatoes or potatoes for pasta or pasta for bread. Most people aren't going to do well getting all their carbs from pasta and bread and it's not because you're going to get any fatter than if your carbs came from rice or potatoes it's just because most people are not going to be able to stomach 500gm of carbs from bread and pasta every day.

Calorie calculators and all that stuff it's great but they're not always very accurate. But if you're using the same app every time it won't make a big difference, also some people like to enter all their information into one of those calculators that tells you what your macros should be, I have found these to be very far off.

Let's try this, for one week right down everything you eat and you don't want to change anything or add new foods or try to be good about it because someone's watching now. Just eat normal for a week and write down every single thing you eat in detail and then we're going to figure out the calories and protein content. We're going to divide those total numbers up by 7 and that's going to give us our daily average those are our maintenance calories .

If your numbers come out to 2,500 calories and 130 g of protein and that's what you been eating for an extended period of time and you weigh 150 lb, go look in the mirror and that person you see in the mirror is what your diet made you look like.

Now we can start making adjustments.

A small caloric surplus or a small deficit depending on your goals but because we're talking about adding muscle we're going to go with a small surplus. We're going to bump the calories up to 2700, we're going to get our protein intake to match our body weight in pounds, and we're going to try to just eat balanced for now you don't need to worry about a high carb diet or keeping your fat to a minimum and so on. One step at a time here.

Little by little we can get into adjusting the macros into a more favorable way but for now we're just talking about the basics total calories and protein is going to be enough to get you headed in the right direction.

Supplements, you don't need any, not a single one. You can get the majority of your vitamins and minerals through your diet if you're eating a balanced diet and there's no magic fat burner or muscle builder that's going to be a game changer for you. At this stage everything should be working and anything should be working as long as you're eating enough to grow.

Once your diet is consistent then you can worry about some supplements, creatine, everybody should take it, most people need a vitamin d supplement I like to take 5,000 iu a day. If you don't feel like you're eating enough fruits and vegetables maybe you can implement a multivitamin. At this point if you got some extra money left over invested away protein powder and use it when you can't eat a real meal you're not using it to replace your food you're using it in an emergency when you can't get your food. If you want to plan it in your diet plan it for a post-workout shake. Just don't start drinking four shakes a day and only eating one solid food meal.

Don't take any of this too literal I'm not saying this is the best way to reach your goals, I'm saying this is the basic stuff you should be doing before you've considered looking into all these special diets and supplements and fancy workout routines.

 

[Smont]

Sorry, I just realized there's a few sentences that didn't record from talk to text. If anyone spots a weird part that jumped around or dosent make sense then let me know and I'll fix it after work. Otherwise I'll go back and read everything again and figure out what's missing

 

[Brocodeout69]

Great post @Smont I just shared this with my nephew. He's just getting into weight lifting with high school football.

 

[MrKleen73]

Good basic info for sure.

 

[Brocodeout69]

Good basic info for sure.

Definitely. My nephew's response: "I don't have 2.5 lb weights, can I just do 5...?" Looks like we're making a run to Dick's Sporting Goods today! My wife and wallet are probably both gonna kill me!

 

[Smont]

Sorry, busy week/weekend. There's never enough hours in the day.

SLEEP! this is important, I only get about 4-6 hours of broken sleep most nights. If you can get 8-9 then do it! Because you grow when you eat and sleep.

Quick recap and il move on

3 day full body split, 4 if you wanna add a arm day.

Find your maintenance calories, not from a calculator but from your own notes. Make your adjustments to get adequate amounts of protein and calories.

If you absolutely need supplements then pick up some creatine, a multi and d3 before you start buying the fancy stuff.

 

[Smont]

Steroids, this seems to be everyone's next step. Well guess what, idk how long you been in the gym but you probably have spent less then a year training properly so your not ready. Don't be the guy at the gym that weighs 145lbs taking test and tren. Unless your a untested athlete of some sort and anabolics can further your sports career I don't think it's necessary. And if you are a athlete then your not looking to get huge. You need small, small amounts for athletic performance.

I tricked you guys, sorry. I'm nowhere near ready to talk about gear in this thread but I thought you might start going ADD if you didn't hear anything about gear, we will get back to that later.

 

[Smont]

Ok, it's time for phaze 2.

We have gone from 145-180 and we still have reasonable bodyfat levels because we didn't overeat TOO much.

Our bench press is up to 250lbs and we're squatting 350, if we have been deadlifting it's probably around 400.

It might be time to look at our routine and see if we are still processing. Or maybe we just need to switch it up to stay motivated.

Here I would give someone 2 or 3 options.

1. Push, pull, legs. Or if your deadlifting I would do pull, push legs so we don't have to deadlift and squat 2 days in a row.

If anyone is interested I can post up one of my PPL routines or I can look up a good one to point you in the right direction. Ppl is flexible but I think you need to do 4-6 days a week. If you do a 3 day a week ppl it's going to be hard to get enough work on each muscle in only 1 workout per week.

So I would go pull, push, legs, rest, pull, rest, rest
Then the following week continue on with
Push, legs, rest, pull, push, rest,rest and so on. Your training 4x week and always putting a day in between pull and legs IF YOUR DEADLIFTING.

If you want 5 days then remove a rest day
P, P, L, REST, P, P, REST then start the next week with legs and so on.

And if you want 6 days, just remember to rest between pull and legs if your deadlifting.

Just don't train 7 days a week. Your gonna need that day to rest and grow. And if your busting your ass 6 days a week, you might even need a big carb load or somewhat of a cheat and relax day for recovery. Again. There's more to that, just saying it as basic as I can.


2. This may also be a good time to look into a bodybuilding routine from a actual coach or trainer. John Meadows has so e good beginner routines and intermediate routines you cou choose from.

Now I'm not talking about meadows specific here, but most of the bodybuilding routines are going to have you training everything 1x week on a 5 day split.
I think that until you have put on the amount of size your looking for there are better options then the 1x week approach. You absolutely can grow on that. But I also think that this early in your training, your not going to know how to really work the muscle good enough yet that 6 days of rest is a good idea.

3. Finally, this is something I do because I'm trying to train for a sport and lift together, but even if you can only train 4x week and you hate doing a just legs only day then this might be for you.

A. Chest, Shoulders, triceps
B. Back, legs biceps.

You can do each workout 2x week but do 2-3 exercises per body part.

This is not a routine you will see to often but I like doing it.

Example.
Bench
DB or machine fly
Cable crossover or chest press machine
Overhead DB press
Side lateral raises
Cable pressdown
DB skull crushers

Then on the other day
Pull up or pull down
Barbell or cable row
Stiff leg deadlift
Squat or legpress
Lunges or split squat
Hammer curl
Any other curl of choice.

You can still focus on a few basic lifts but you get more volume and more recovery time while still training 4xweek.

Il be back later to talk about tuning up the diet

 

[Smont]

Oh, something I wanted to add. When I do that workout mentioned above. I warm up on the pushing day with some rotator cuff exercises and light stretching.

On the pull day I warm up with some dead hangs and face pulls.

Start early on doing things to keep your shoulders healthy and balanced because shoulder problems will start popping up 5-10 years in for most ppl.

I wish I was doing prehab and mobility work more early on and I'd probably have less aches and pains now

 

[MrKleen73]

Oh, something I wanted to add. When I do that workout mentioned above. I warm up on the pushing day with some rotator cuff exercises and light stretching.

On the pull day I warm up with some dead hangs and face pulls.

Start early on doing things to keep your shoulders healthy and balanced because shoulder problems will start popping up 5-10 years in for most ppl.

I wish I was doing prehab and mobility work more early on and I'd probably have less aches and pains now

PAY ATTENTION TO THIS PEOPLE!!!!! Yeah I was yelling this is important, 3 shoulder surgeries in already at 50 due to my first 30 years of abusing my shoulders with nor prehab, or activation work. It is important. Even with doing this stuff the last 8 or so I had too much damage already and it was inevitable.

 

[Smont]

Ok, time to clean up your diet and tailor it to your needs.

First we need to look in the mirror, do we have any visibility left in our abs, if the answer is no then we need to cut back a little on the calories and add some cardio (you should always be doing some form of cardio regardless of your goals).

If your still reasonably lean, somewhat visible abs and can see a little muscle separation then let's continue on our way.

Now that we have added some weight are calories and protein requirements are going up, we also want to prioritize carbohydrates as are main energy source to fuel our workouts, fill up our glycogen stores and grow.

Say we're eating 5 meals a day, my preference more myself and what I find works best for the majority of ppl is the following. This is what I would say is the next diet step after the basis.

Protein=lbs in body weight
180lbs/180gm protein

Fat=about 80gm a day for health and hormone production "assuming we are natty" but I eat about that regardless when I'm following a meal plan.

Carbs=the remainder of our calories, say we are now eating 3200cal per day, let's do some math.

Protein 180x4=720 calories
Fat 80x9=720

That's 1440 cal

3200-1440=1760cal we need from carbs

1760÷4=440gm of carbs

So here is our diet
180 protein, 440 carbs and 80 gm of fat.

How we distribute our calories is not super important yet unless your striving for perfection at this point, but if you want things to be really optimal then my suggestion is on rest days we eat our macros evenly distributed over the 5 meals and on training days put more of the carbs around the workout. But evenly distributed every day will work fine.

If you really wanted to kick it up a notch we can get into carb cycling. Less carbs on rest days and more carbs on training days.

Your low carb days might only have 150gm of carbs for the entire day and then on training days we eat our 440 + the missing carbs from the rest day, I suggest putting those carbs pre, intra and post workout.

I don't wanna go too much farther because this is not really the basics. It's more fine tuning then everything else.

Next I'm going to talk about gear, not a lot, just what a basic first year should look like. And I think il end there as carb cycling and gear are already beyond the basics. But, since I know everyone buys there cycles the same week they get there first gym membership I figured I will toss it in here.

 

[Smont]

Couple more diet things I feel I should add, in your journey to build muscle, your fat is always going to pretty much stay the same, as you grow you will need slightly more protein but the majority of your calories will be increased with carbs, if your 200lbs and you find it hard to get 200gm protein from real food, you can increase your carbs instead, protein is important but carbohydrates are protein sparing so the more carbs you eat the less protein you need, that doesn't mean you can cut your protein to 75gm and just eat all carbs, everything within reason.

If your enhanced then your fat requirements are even lower.

The only 2 times I feel like fats need to be adjusted is when your
1. carb cycling , if your trying to keep a set number of daily calories then when you have low carb days you're going to need to eat more fat and protein to make up for the calories but more specifically it should come from fat. If you can't replace 300gm of carbs with a extra 300gm of protein, and even if you did, your body is going to convert a bunch of that protein into carbs/glucose anyway.

2. Extreme cutting, if you have been cutting for a extended period of time and your single digit body fat and have already eliminated the large majority of your carbohydrates in your diet now you'd have to start eliminating/reducing your fats. You can't reduce protein here or your just gonna waste away.

 

[flintinatux]

Flat bench
Pulldown
Squat
Incline bench
Bent over row
Leg press

Do you have videos of good form for each of these? (Or know where I can find some you'd recommend?) Just getting started, and super grateful for a thread focused on basics!

 

[GreenMachineX]

Ok, it's time for phaze 2.

We have gone from 145-180 and we still have reasonable bodyfat levels because we didn't overeat TOO much.

Our bench press is up to 250lbs and we're squatting 350, if we have been deadlifting it's probably around 400.

It might be time to look at our routine and see if we are still processing. Or maybe we just need to switch it up to stay motivated.

Here I would give someone 2 or 3 options.

1. Push, pull, legs. Or if your deadlifting I would do pull, push legs so we don't have to deadlift and squat 2 days in a row.

If anyone is interested I can post up one of my PPL routines or I can look up a good one to point you in the right direction. Ppl is flexible but I think you need to do 4-6 days a week. If you do a 3 day a week ppl it's going to be hard to get enough work on each muscle in only 1 workout per week.

So I would go pull, push, legs, rest, pull, rest, rest
Then the following week continue on with
Push, legs, rest, pull, push, rest,rest and so on. Your training 4x week and always putting a day in between pull and legs IF YOUR DEADLIFTING.

If you want 5 days then remove a rest day
P, P, L, REST, P, P, REST then start the next week with legs and so on.

And if you want 6 days, just remember to rest between pull and legs if your deadlifting.

Just don't train 7 days a week. Your gonna need that day to rest and grow. And if your busting your ass 6 days a week, you might even need a big carb load or somewhat of a cheat and relax day for recovery. Again. There's more to that, just saying it as basic as I can.


2. This may also be a good time to look into a bodybuilding routine from a actual coach or trainer. John Meadows has so e good beginner routines and intermediate routines you cou choose from.

Now I'm not talking about meadows specific here, but most of the bodybuilding routines are going to have you training everything 1x week on a 5 day split.
I think that until you have put on the amount of size your looking for there are better options then the 1x week approach. You absolutely can grow on that. But I also think that this early in your training, your not going to know how to really work the muscle good enough yet that 6 days of rest is a good idea.

3. Finally, this is something I do because I'm trying to train for a sport and lift together, but even if you can only train 4x week and you hate doing a just legs only day then this might be for you.

A. Chest, Shoulders, triceps
B. Back, legs biceps.

You can do each workout 2x week but do 2-3 exercises per body part.

This is not a routine you will see to often but I like doing it.

Example.
Bench
DB or machine fly
Cable crossover or chest press machine
Overhead DB press
Side lateral raises
Cable pressdown
DB skull crushers

Then on the other day
Pull up or pull down
Barbell or cable row
Stiff leg deadlift
Squat or legpress
Lunges or split squat
Hammer curl
Any other curl of choice.

You can still focus on a few basic lifts but you get more volume and more recovery time while still training 4xweek.

Il be back later to talk about tuning up the diet

Ugh. 6 months off after covid wrecked me and nowhere near those lifts i hate starting over.

 

[ZLB70]

Ugh. 6 months off after covid wrecked me and nowhere near those lifts i hate starting over.

I agree I also hate starting over but it does always feel kinda good seeing everything you have lost come back decently quick

 

[Smont]

Do you have videos of good form for each of these? (Or know where I can find some you'd recommend?) Just getting started, and super grateful for a thread focused on basics!

Yes, I'm working but when I get a chance il link some videos that show proper form

 

[Smont]

Do you have videos of good form for each of these? (Or know where I can find some you'd recommend?) Just getting started, and super grateful for a thread focused on basics!

In the meantime just go to YouTube and type, John Meadows exercise index.

He's got one for probably 50 different exercises

 

[GreenMachineX]

I agree I also hate starting over but it does always feel kinda good seeing everything you have lost come back decently quick

Mine doesn't come back that quick

 

[Smont]

Mine doesn't come back that quick

Try finding your current max and use 50% of that weight for sets of 8-12 and add 10lbs each workout till it gets challenging, and then go to 5lb jumps. (This is for compound movements)

The weight will go up rapidly till your using about 80% or so.


The percentage is irrelevant, you basically just start with a weight that's way too easy and before you know it 6 weeks went by and your back working with your old numbers

 

[GreenMachineX]

Try finding your current max and use 50% of that weight for sets of 8-12 and add 10lbs each workout till it gets challenging, and then go to 5lb jumps. (This is for compound movements)

The weight will go up rapidly till your using about 80% or so.


The percentage is irrelevant, you basically just start with a weight that's way too easy and before you know it 6 weeks went by and your back working with your old numbers

I guess your right, I'm stuck at 80% of where I was.

 

[GQdaLEGEND]

Great information Smont .. love the basics. I think i will give your post #3 workout a try.

Knock on wood, my recovery has been decent lately due to supplements and just taking care of my body.

I used to do squats 3-4x a week start of every exercise and thats when i noticed the most strength from what i recall .. but back then wasn't too knowledgeable and didn't listen to body/aches so lost motivation.

 

[MrKleen73]

Try finding your current max and use 50% of that weight for sets of 8-12 and add 10lbs each workout till it gets challenging, and then go to 5lb jumps. (This is for compound movements)

The weight will go up rapidly till your using about 80% or so.


The percentage is irrelevant, you basically just start with a weight that's way too easy and before you know it 6 weeks went by and your back working with your old numbers

This is kind of what I have had to do. To build work capacity to I am going with about 50% of my estimated max for 15 reps and am just going to keep moving up gradually. Especially in a coming back in aspect my strength could shoot up a lot more quickly than my connective tissue can prepare to handle it.

 

[GreenMachineX]

This is kind of what I have had to do. To build work capacity to I am going with about 50% of my estimated max for 15 reps and am just going to keep moving up gradually. Especially in a coming back in aspect my strength could shoot up a lot more quickly than my connective tissue can prepare to handle it.

Are you coming off a layoff?

 

[MrKleen73]

Are you coming off a layoff?

Layoff and injury's. Just now getting my hip and knee to play well together after being locked up in a boot for a very long time. Then tearing my RC right before COVID so worked until it felt futile and then quit for a while. Upon coming back my glute not firing well had my knee hurting and the first time I started adding weight to the bar both my knee and my hip hurt. So it has been gradual work and I got my squats back up into the 300s for 5x5, then I tore my other RC in March and am in recovery from that surgery so just now starting to squats with an SSB bar again. Will have to rebuild my Left RC and biceps tendon from where it was reattached then hopefully can PT my other tear into functional enough I don't have to get an operation to do any decent weight chest pressing.

Just hit 155x15 x 5 sets on SSB last session after starting at 155x15 x 3. Now I am going to add 165-175 to the bar for 4 sets and work my way to 5x15 before moving up again. I figure a couple months of this and I will be in some decent weights for sets of 15 and will probably started modulating numbers of sets. I still feel some niggles in my internal rotation on the right hip once getting tired so have to work through that with the lighter stuff and higher reps first before pushing the weight too much.

 

[Smont]

Layoff and injury's. Just now getting my hip and knee to play well together after being locked up in a boot for a very long time. Then tearing my RC right before COVID so worked until it felt futile and then quit for a while. Upon coming back my glute not firing well had my knee hurting and the first time I started adding weight to the bar both my knee and my hip hurt. So it has been gradual work and I got my squats back up into the 300s for 5x5, then I tore my other RC in March and am in recovery from that surgery so just now starting to squats with an SSB bar again. Will have to rebuild my Left RC and biceps tendon from where it was reattached then hopefully can PT my other tear into functional enough I don't have to get an operation to do any decent weight chest pressing.

Just hit 155x15 x 5 sets on SSB last session after starting at 155x15 x 3. Now I am going to add 165-175 to the bar for 4 sets and work my way to 5x15 before moving up again. I figure a couple months of this and I will be in some decent weights for sets of 15 and will probably started modulating numbers of sets. I still feel some niggles in my internal rotation on the right hip once getting tired so have to work through that with the lighter stuff and higher reps first before pushing the weight too much.

If you got a lot of shoulder pain, you may want to temporarily swap all barbell presses for DB and cable presses, then you can move your elbows and change your path to find where it does and doesn't hurt. Then train in the pain free motions

 

[GreenMachineX]

Layoff and injury's. Just now getting my hip and knee to play well together after being locked up in a boot for a very long time. Then tearing my RC right before COVID so worked until it felt futile and then quit for a while. Upon coming back my glute not firing well had my knee hurting and the first time I started adding weight to the bar both my knee and my hip hurt. So it has been gradual work and I got my squats back up into the 300s for 5x5, then I tore my other RC in March and am in recovery from that surgery so just now starting to squats with an SSB bar again. Will have to rebuild my Left RC and biceps tendon from where it was reattached then hopefully can PT my other tear into functional enough I don't have to get an operation to do any decent weight chest pressing.

Just hit 155x15 x 5 sets on SSB last session after starting at 155x15 x 3. Now I am going to add 165-175 to the bar for 4 sets and work my way to 5x15 before moving up again. I figure a couple months of this and I will be in some decent weights for sets of 15 and will probably started modulating numbers of sets. I still feel some niggles in my internal rotation on the right hip once getting tired so have to work through that with the lighter stuff and higher reps first before pushing the weight too much.

Sounds like we're in similar places. I'm not really pushing my squats like you are it sounds like though. I just do 1 top set because my recovery is so bad. My bench and standing press are so bad lol. 3 sets of 7 of 175 on bench, and top set of 7 of 115 on standing press.

 

[MrKleen73]

If you got a lot of shoulder pain, you may want to temporarily swap all barbell presses for DB and cable presses, then you can move your elbows and change your path to find where it does and doesn't hurt. Then train in the pain free motions

Oh I definitely try but anything I have to retract my scap then lay on a bench tends to bother me on the right side. I want to go somewhere that has a 12 wide fat pad and see if it is any better for me. I have found doing a more elbow out body builder type of press allows me to do more but have a feeling I will end up needing to have that side fixed as well if I ever want to work with heavier weights on that side again. Its odd because I can over head press a heavier DB now than I can flat, incline, or decline bench right now. It may help once I am pressing with the other side to engage everything but often it is the sore tendonitis on other parts of my RC from compensating for the Subscap tear hurting from being pinned against the bench just kind of shutting those muscles off then my trap pulls up to guard and attempt to avoid damage.

Sounds like we're in similar places. I'm not really pushing my squats like you are it sounds like though. I just do 1 top set because my recovery is so bad. My bench and standing press are so bad lol. 3 sets of 7 of 175 on bench, and top set of 7 of 115 on standing press.

Oh my bench is nowhere near that, of course not though since I just had surgery 9 weeks ago. I sure hope 175 is in the cards after that. I was able to work my bench up to 225x6 before my shoulder started acting up again so taking the progression there slower too and honestly may not even BB Bench if I can work up with DB's enough to get some new growth or at least use muscle memory to get to previous size.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Oh I definitely try but anything I have to retract my scap then lay on a bench tends to bother me on the right side. I want to go somewhere that has a 12 wide fat pad and see if it is any better for me. I have found doing a more elbow out body builder type of press allows me to do more but have a feeling I will end up needing to have that side fixed as well if I ever want to work with heavier weights on that side again. Its odd because I can over head press a heavier DB now than I can flat, incline, or decline bench right now. It may help once I am pressing with the other side to engage everything but often it is the sore tendonitis on other parts of my RC from compensating for the Subscap tear hurting from being pinned against the bench just kind of shutting those muscles off then my trap pulls up to guard and attempt to avoid damage.


Oh my bench is nowhere near that, of course not though since I just had surgery 9 weeks ago. I sure hope 175 is in the cards after that. I was able to work my bench up to 225x6 before my shoulder started acting up again so taking the progression there slower too and honestly may not even BB Bench if I can work up with DB's enough to get some new growth or at least use muscle memory to get to previous size.

Gotcha. I haven't benched 225 in years from shoulder issues. So frustrating. I'm sure you'll rebound quick though if that picture is still accurate. I'm also stuck between wanting to cut and build because I'm somewhere between 20-25% BF. Never thought I'd decompose to my current state

 

[GQdaLEGEND]

Did this today and feels good .. tweaked here and there but same concept as post#2

Last 2 exercises are supersets and will be rotated .. currently getting in minumum of 3 days, 4-5 is my goal but all depends on how my dad is feeling and sundays ive been getting lazy on the couch w/ beer & football.

 

[Smont]

Oh I definitely try but anything I have to retract my scap then lay on a bench tends to bother me on the right side. I want to go somewhere that has a 12 wide fat pad and see if it is any better for me. I have found doing a more elbow out body builder type of press allows me to do more but have a feeling I will end up needing to have that side fixed as well if I ever want to work with heavier weights on that side again. Its odd because I can over head press a heavier DB now than I can flat, incline, or decline bench right now. It may help once I am pressing with the other side to engage everything but often it is the sore tendonitis on other parts of my RC from compensating for the Subscap tear hurting from being pinned against the bench just kind of shutting those muscles off then my trap pulls up to guard and attempt to avoid damage.


Oh my bench is nowhere near that, of course not though since I just had surgery 9 weeks ago. I sure hope 175 is in the cards after that. I was able to work my bench up to 225x6 before my shoulder started acting up again so taking the progression there slower too and honestly may not even BB Bench if I can work up with DB's enough to get some new growth or at least use muscle memory to get to previous size.

What about a floor press in the Smith machine, you can also do flys on a floor mat.

Idk just some ideas, the floor press is more of a tricep exercise for me. I don't really feel it a ton in my chest. The floor flys I definitely feel tho. Pec dec is good for me when my shoulder hurts too, it definitely works that tie in muscle from the delt to the pec and my upper pecs

View attachment 224129

Did this today and feels good .. tweaked here and there but same concept as post#2

Last 2 exercises are supersets and will be rotated .. currently getting in minumum of 3 days, 4-5 is my goal but all depends on how my dad is feeling and sundays ive been getting lazy on the couch w/ beer & football.

I'm going to let you in on a little secret,, every Sunday while you're sitting on the couch drinking beer and watching football the only people in the gym are females, go to the gym around 2pm on Sundays, it's worth it

 

[Smont]

2pm is the middle of the first game where I live, just in case you're in a different time zone. Sometime after the first game starts closer to the end of the first game I feel like that's when all the women start going to the gym it'll be you a bunch of females and maybe an elderly person or two. At least that's how it is in my gym. Sometimes I even go to planet fitness on Sundays cuz it's the same thing there, all females working out

 

[GQdaLEGEND]

I'm going to let you in on a little secret,, every Sunday while you're sitting on the couch drinking beer and watching football the only people in the gym are females, go to the gym around 2pm on Sundays, it's worth it

sold im there jk jk i can and will when bills arent playing at 1

 

[Dustin07]

Ok, it's time for phaze 2.

We have gone from 145-180 and we still have reasonable bodyfat levels because we didn't overeat TOO much.

I love this thread but this part cracked me up. I haven't weighed 145 since 8th grade. Wrestled 148 in 9th grade lol. My boy weighed in at 180 and started wrestling yesterday. (my guess is he'll weigh 170 by end of week...haha)

 

[MrKleen73]

What about a floor press in the Smith machine, you can also do flys on a floor mat.

Idk just some ideas, the floor press is more of a tricep exercise for me. I don't really feel it a ton in my chest. The floor flys I definitely feel tho. Pec dec is good for me when my shoulder hurts too, it definitely works that tie in muscle from the delt to the pec and my upper pecs


I'm going to let you in on a little secret,, every Sunday while you're sitting on the couch drinking beer and watching football the only people in the gym are females, go to the gym around 2pm on Sundays, it's worth it

I will have to give the floor flyes a shot, I could do them, and pec deck (arms bent one) before I tore my left shoulder so probably a good go to once it is recovered. The floor press pushes my subluxed biceps tendon a bit, but like you said it is also a lot more triceps for me than pecs. Dips and Decline or cable crossovers also seem to work without much pain. So we shall see. Plus I am doing a lot of the PT stuff on both sides in hopes I get more traction on the right side again since it has been a couple years since the initial injury.

Facts on the Sundays at 2:00PM at the gym. Lots of ladies. Oh yeah speaking of, that damn 9 minute standing bed cooked my ass the other day. LMAO I am still a little burnt and am starting to peel. Going to have to do 5 minutes and build back up. Talk about a massive difference since I was tanning several years back.

 

[Dustin07]

Facts on the Sundays at 2:00PM at the gym. Lots of ladies.

I refer to that as free floating testosterone booster.

 

[Jeremyk1]

I love this thread but this part cracked me up. I haven't weighed 145 since 8th grade. Wrestled 148 in 9th grade lol. My boy weighed in at 180 and started wrestling yesterday. (my guess is he'll weigh 170 by end of week...haha)

I had a huge growth spurt around that time. 7th grade I wrestled 155, by 8th I had to move up to 180. Our middle schools here didn’t use standard weight classes. I was around 170 for a while, then shot up to about 190 in 10th grade.

 

[Jeremyk1]

I love this thread but this part cracked me up. I haven't weighed 145 since 8th grade. Wrestled 148 in 9th grade lol. My boy weighed in at 180 and started wrestling yesterday. (my guess is he'll weigh 170 by end of week...haha)

I had a huge growth spurt around that time. 7th grade I wrestled 155, by 8th I had to move up to 180. Our middle schools here didn’t use standard weight classes. I was around 170 for a while, then shot up to about 190 in 10th grade.

 

[Dustin07]

I had a huge growth spurt around that time. 7th grade I wrestled 155, by 8th I had to move up to 180. Our middle schools here didn’t use standard weight classes. I was around 170 for a while, then shot up to about 190 in 10th grade.

Yeah I'm really curious to see what weight my boy lands at by end of season. his first match is next week and he's 179 now, but once he burns off the baby fat I could see him under 170 even. he wants to do a picture every day to make a time lapse of how his body changes over the season. if I could get him to lift........................ his structure is far superior to mine. I think he could chase high school records in the next 5 years.