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fiddler
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hey guys,
interesting thread. i want to throw my 2 cents in and get some responses.
according to my A&P book both of you are right. protein digestion starts in the stomach to small polypeptides and finishes in the small intestine and gets absorbed.
Now, here's the interesting part. When the pyloric sphincter opens and the first squirt of chyme enters the small intestine, "Fats form an oily layer at the top of the chyme and are digested more slowly...Thus when chyme entering duodenum is fatty, food may remain in the stomach, six hours or more."
This is done by the secretions from the small intestines that feedback and regulate stomach motility. The book also goes on to say that solid food empties much slower than liquid food, the reason is that your stomach turns solid into liquid with acid and enzymes.
So it appears that there are 2 things that determine the speed of the food moving through the small intestine and digestion. solid or liquid, fatty or not. An interesting study would be to compare the speed of emptying with whey only and whey and oil.
Is the added oil enough to ensure most, if not, complete digestion and absortion of high amounts of protein? If so, how much protein and how much oil?
If i had to venture a guess, it would be somewhere in between you two. Bobo says only one scoop, probably more, especially if you add oil and it would vary from individual to individual. IA says 75g, maybe, maybe not all of it. Someone definitely needs to do a study so we know how much oil and how much protein in one shot.
you guys can stop poking each other now. :trout:
fiddler
interesting thread. i want to throw my 2 cents in and get some responses.
according to my A&P book both of you are right. protein digestion starts in the stomach to small polypeptides and finishes in the small intestine and gets absorbed.
Now, here's the interesting part. When the pyloric sphincter opens and the first squirt of chyme enters the small intestine, "Fats form an oily layer at the top of the chyme and are digested more slowly...Thus when chyme entering duodenum is fatty, food may remain in the stomach, six hours or more."
This is done by the secretions from the small intestines that feedback and regulate stomach motility. The book also goes on to say that solid food empties much slower than liquid food, the reason is that your stomach turns solid into liquid with acid and enzymes.
So it appears that there are 2 things that determine the speed of the food moving through the small intestine and digestion. solid or liquid, fatty or not. An interesting study would be to compare the speed of emptying with whey only and whey and oil.
Is the added oil enough to ensure most, if not, complete digestion and absortion of high amounts of protein? If so, how much protein and how much oil?
If i had to venture a guess, it would be somewhere in between you two. Bobo says only one scoop, probably more, especially if you add oil and it would vary from individual to individual. IA says 75g, maybe, maybe not all of it. Someone definitely needs to do a study so we know how much oil and how much protein in one shot.
you guys can stop poking each other now. :trout:
fiddler
Dwight Schrute
I am faster than 80% of all snakes
fiddler said:hey guys,
interesting thread. i want to throw my 2 cents in and get some responses.
according to my A&P book both of you are right. protein digestion starts in the stomach to small polypeptides and finishes in the small intestine and gets absorbed.
Now, here's the interesting part. When the pyloric sphincter opens and the first squirt of chyme enters the small intestine, "Fats form an oily layer at the top of the chyme and are digested more slowly...Thus when chyme entering duodenum is fatty, food may remain in the stomach, six hours or more."
This is done by the secretions from the small intestines that feedback and regulate stomach motility. The book also goes on to say that solid food empties much slower than liquid food, the reason is that your stomach turns solid into liquid with acid and enzymes.
So it appears that there are 2 things that determine the speed of the food moving through the small intestine and digestion. solid or liquid, fatty or not. An interesting study would be to compare the speed of emptying with whey only and whey and oil.
Is the added oil enough to ensure most, if not, complete digestion and absortion of high amounts of protein? If so, how much protein and how much oil?
If i had to venture a guess, it would be somewhere in between you two. Bobo says only one scoop, probably more, especially if you add oil and it would vary from individual to individual. IA says 75g, maybe, maybe not all of it. Someone definitely needs to do a study so we know how much oil and how much protein in one shot.
you guys can stop poking each other now. :trout:
fiddler
1. Hydrolysis has nothing to do with the rate of absortion into the small intestine. Those factors are determined in the small intestine so that is where you want to focus your attention when your talking about protein absortion.
2. Fatty foods are digested more slowly but the first process of breaking down foods into small components is eliminated because the food is already in liquified form. Gatric emptying therefore is slowed very little and a rapid influx of amino
's is present.
3. The more time whey sits in your stomach, the more denatured the protein becomes. Its not designed to sit in your stomach, its designed to deliver nutrients fast.
fiddler
Member
Bobo said:
I never said anything about hydrolysis. Hydrolysis is the breakup of protein into amino acids via cleavage. Sped up by enzymes. Nothing to do with absorption.
I would tend to agree with you but since i don't have any hard numbers and you could change that by taking some solid stuff with the protein shake. Do you have any numbers? I would be interested in it so i can plan my intakes accordingly.
Proteins:
The primary structure of a protein is the unique sequence of amino acids.
Secondary structure of proteins are the coils and folds that are the results of hydrogen bonds. This contributes to the unique conformation of each functional protein.
Tertiary structure of proteins are the final conformation of the protein caused by hydrophobic side chains and disulfide bridges that connect 2 cysteine monomers together.
If the pH, salt concentration, temperature or other aspect of its enviroment are altered the protein UNRAVELS and lose its native conformation, this change is called denaturation.
In order for a protein to be digested it MUST be denatured because the acid and digestive enzymes in your stomach and duodenum(acid is neutralized in duodenum), unreavels the protein and chops it up into individual amino acids for absorption. The small intesting CANNOT absorb anything other than individual amino acids which is no longer a protein.
So please clarify statement 3.
See guys. it is easier to attempt to understand what the person it saying or trying to say and come to a understanding. It's really hard to have an intelligent discourse on anything if you just jump down each others throats. It's just unseemly for you guys to do this in public.
btw - I think you will love the irony of this. I got into this thread because i was looking for more practical info on nutrition by Bobo!
fiddler
Dwight Schrute
I am faster than 80% of all snakes
fiddler said:
1. Hydrolysis in the stomach is only the breakdown into smaller peptides, not individual amino's. That is the ONLY thing that happens to proteins in the stomach. I never said you stated anything. IA said the majority of whey protein is digested and absorbed in the stomach which is comlpetely false. The GI stress is causes from a rapid influx of amino in the small intestine and the deanimation that occurs (excess nitrogen buildup). When I state "protein absortion" I mean the whole process form ingestion to uptake of amino's so everyone understands what I'm stating. If we got competely technical everyone would get more confused.
2. Numbers, no. Most of that is taught in undergrad college classes. I wish I had the slides
3. Enzymes need to be digested to work properly and the longer they are present in an acidic environment the wrose digetions becomes. Pepsin is a good example.
Are you referring to me in that "public statement"? I'm not sure when someone is addressing me or not anymore. Been on vacation for 2 days and the mind is playing tricks on me.
PM me if you have anymore questions. I don't want this getting into another pissing match while I'm gone. We've had enough of them lately.
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