Are you a Democrat or Republican???

Dem, Rep or Indy?

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thesinner said:
There's only one being that I can think of with the knowledge and strength to keep any number of people orderly without overlooking/neglecting other factors; however, the being I'm thinking of is omnipotent. Until this changes, any government or concept of government you'll ever be exposed to is going to be less than perfect, and that's a fact you're just going to have to accept.
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Of course they'll be less then perfect. I brought up the fact that the private sector, over and over again, has proven itself much more capable than the government and I said that we should keep healthcare out of government's grubby little power hungry paws.

If the government wants to legislate in favor of healthcare, they should legislate out frivelous lawsuits that drive insurance premiums through the roof for practicing physicians and hospitals; do this and the patient sees their costs go down.
 
kwyckemynd00 said:
Of course they'll be less then perfect. I brought up the fact that the private sector, over and over again, has proven itself much more capable than the government and I said that we should keep healthcare out of government's grubby little power hungry paws.

If the government wants to legislate in favor of healthcare, they should legislate out frivelous lawsuits that drive insurance premiums through the roof for practicing physicians and hospitals; do this and the patient sees their costs go down.
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"You can't have your cake and eat it too."

This aphorism seems to ALWAYS hold true, despite the fact that so many people have such trouble grasping it.
 
spatch said:
So one day a man died because he couldnt afford an operation that would have saved his life, and medicare hasnt been socialized yet (no, im not going to say "universal")...

Oh wait, that isnt funny, its SICK, just like the money grubbing Repubicans.
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:confused:

How is universal medicare the government's problem...?

"money-grubbing Republicans"? WTF?

You think Democrats aren't the same in nature? Get a clue, man.

Our country is ranked #4 in the world for economic freedom, just below Australia, Hong Kong, and Singapore (all 3 of which are based strongly on the United State's pro-democratic policies and free markets).

200 years ago people like you and I wouldn't have a pot to piss in, much less universal healthcare. If that is what you want, then be prepared to live like (amoung others) the Italians do, endebted to their own government. Their labor market operates under restrictive employment regulations that hinder employment and phuck up their rate of productivity. The more control they give the government over things like finance and property rights, the more corrupt (MONEY GRUBBING) they become.

If you lack the ability to articulate what you think and instead spout off two-lined fits of verbal masterbation into the keyboard... you might be an idiot.
 
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just to clarify, people who lable themselves as dem or rep in my experience have no ideas what the issue is or the facts. they just hear about an issue and blindly go with one side or the other. dont want to waste their valuable time to think about how they really feel.
 
spatch said:
So one day a man died because he couldnt afford an operation that would have saved his life, and medicare hasnt been socialized yet (no, im not going to say "universal")...

Oh wait, that isnt funny, its SICK, just like the money grubbing Repubicans.
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Only problem with that is Medicare IS socialized medicine.
 
I'm fiscally conservative and socially liberal. I don't know what phuckin party that is but that's what I believe in

Spatch: You're probably a good kid in the real world but geez bro, analyze things a little bit before you make those statements :)
 
Defiently not a Democrat.






"The WAPO reports that House Majority Whip James Clyburn (D-S.C.) went on the record that a positive report from Iraq would be "a real big problem for us."
 
Iron Warrior said:
Spatch: You're probably a good kid in the real world but geez bro, analyze things a little bit before you make those statements :)
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I'm not into politics much, except for expanding persoanl rights that republicans dont want us to have, so I pop jokes. I could go on and on about how the Republican War on Drugs is one of the stupidest things this country has ever done, but we have all heard it before.
 
So how about this idea for socialized medicine. Keep in mind I'm a biochem major, not an economics major, so take it easy...


Keep everything the way it is right now, except pay for it with taxes. So you go to what ever doctor you want, just like right now, but instead of you paying it is payed for with tax money. Doctors would still have competition to be the best they can be to keep/get new patients, and it wouldnt take long to get things done like in Canada.
 
spatch said:
So how about this idea for socialized medicine. Keep in mind I'm a biochem major, not an economics major, so take it easy...


Keep everything the way it is right now, except pay for it with taxes. So you go to what ever doctor you want, just like right now, but instead of you paying it is payed for with tax money. Doctors would still have competition to be the best they can be to keep/get new patients, and it wouldnt take long to get things done like in Canada.
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And who are you going to tax to pay for this???
 
RedwolfWV said:
And who are you going to tax to pay for this???
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The citizens of America. I don't see how paying taxes to pay for medical care is that big a deal. I mean are we that cold hearted that we wont pay taxes to heal the sick? I realize that helping people may not be a "traditional" value, no offence intended.

Keep in mind after you pay the taxes you will no longer have to pay for health insurance.
 
Do you have any idea how many TRILLIONS of dollars its going to cost?

There is going to come a time, when the "rich" people of this country say PISS OFF and move out. That 5% of the population is pretty much supporting the entire tax system as it is. I just don't think they should have to pay any more.

Now, if you were to get rid of an equal amount of federal spending, I might be able to go for it. So, what programs to we cut?? How about we make all people on welfare take a monthly drug test. If they fail the test... NO CHECK. I'll bet that would cut the welfare rolls by at least 30%. Theres a good start!
 
spatch said:
The citizens of America. I don't see how paying taxes to pay for medical care is that big a deal. I mean are we that cold hearted that we wont pay taxes to heal the sick? I realize that helping people may not be a "traditional" value, no offence intended.

Keep in mind after you pay the taxes you will no longer have to pay for health insurance.
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We already do pay taxes for Medicare and Medicaid...two programs that are deadlocked in corruption and abuse BECAUSE its run by the federal government. Now you genius's on the left seem to ignore this fact as well as the other well run socialized benefit program called Social Security which will go bankrupt without reform.

Bottom line is I don't want my tax money going to another program which will be ripe with mismanagement and corruption when I can pay for my own health insurance and deal with them myself....not go through the government which will be 10x worse.


You don't take the second most corrupt and mismanaged system and combine it with the MOST corrupt and mismanaged system. Its common sense.
 
spatch said:
So how about this idea for socialized medicine. Keep in mind I'm a biochem major, not an economics major, so take it easy...


Keep everything the way it is right now, except pay for it with taxes. So you go to what ever doctor you want, just like right now, but instead of you paying it is payed for with tax money. Doctors would still have competition to be the best they can be to keep/get new patients, and it wouldnt take long to get things done like in Canada.
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Einstein, you still have the problem of the government wanting to CUT COSTS so what do you think they will do? The same thing the insurance companies will do...hire doctors to screen what it needed and what is not hence you have the same problem you have now on top of the problem of managing health insurance for 300 million people. Real smart idea. :rolleyes:


The idea that the government is going to hand over money and "take care of you the best they can" is ridiculous and naive.
 
spatch said:
I'm not into politics much, except for expanding persoanl rights that republicans dont want us to have, so I pop jokes. I could go on and on about how the Republican War on Drugs is one of the stupidest things this country has ever done, but we have all heard it before.
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Unfortunately if you look back to the eighties and before it was the Democrats pushing the War on Drugs to prove their law and order nature, and are just as much to blame on the issue as any Republican. And, as an activist on the issue in my college years one of the first things we were taught is that Republicans were almost always the best shot at getting such laws repealed or delegated to individual states to decide. I saw no let up in federal crack downs of medical marijuana during Clinton's tenure, nor do I see it happening now that the supposedly socially liberal Democrats are in control of congress.
 
Iron Warrior said:
I'm fiscally conservative and socially liberal. I don't know what phuckin party that is but that's what I believe in

Spatch: You're probably a good kid in the real world but geez bro, analyze things a little bit before you make those statements :)
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You just described me as well. Libretarian is the best party under those criteria
 
Their presidential candidate, Michael Badnerick, isn't actually someone I'd personally support. Plus, 3rd party candidates never even make it to any of the debates. They're blackballed.
 
Yea...I'm not registered to any party...

...but most of the time I vote Republican, as I hold a somewhat similar viewpoint as them, just a little on the left side. Plus I'm a middle class, white male :D
 
I agree with the founders: partisan politics and political parties have destroyed what this country could have been, and between them, the 2 big dogs are squabbling over whether to terraform the US in Mexico's image, or India's. The destination's no different - and I don't think the choice of route is significant, given that destination.

The Libertarians are IMO even more useless, since they are too pure to actually try to achieve office - hell, they can't even hang on to their own agenda. Nitwits like Boortz and basket cases like the neo-cons have managed to define themselves as Libertarians without any noticeable complaint from any real libertarians, and they've managed to redefine for the public what libertarians believe - hell, I've heard *Mike Savage* called a libertarian.

As long as corporations have the same rights, privileges and freedoms as real people, nothing's going to change for the better.
 
PumpingIron said:
Yea...I'm not registered to any party...

...but most of the time I vote Republican, as I hold a somewhat similar viewpoint as them, just a little on the left side. Plus I'm a middle class, white male :D
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Middle Class white males do not have a party.


Democrats hate anyone above the poverty line.
Republicans hate anyone below the top 2%.


Republicans by and large have treated me well as a result (me being in the top 2%), but I don't like their spending policies as of late. Makes me want to do all my business in Euros instead of US Dollars.

I also don't like how Republicans lately have become the party of personal interference; i.e. trying to write laws that govern how we live our personal lives. Government has no place in personal life, especially federal government.
 
Bush and Detroit's mayor, Kwami (spelled wrong - who cares) should be on the same side. Atleast you know you can't believe sh!t that comes out of anyone of their mouths.

The dollar is strong. HAHAHAHA Oh, and unemployment is down - Gas won't be 4$ a gallon - we didn't fu@k

4000 dead in Iraq from a bull sh!t madeup war - tax dollars can ALWAYS be used to bailout the big corporations that helped cause the current economic climate (Corporations love Capitalism untill their asses are in a sling, then they want Socialism style bailouts by way of the taxpayer) but NOT help homeowners, and unless you're on the friends and family plan, you won't get a job from neither one of these administrations ; Haliburton moved to Dubya, so good luck getting a job with them. Now "that's" the American way.
 
spatch said:
The citizens of America. I don't see how paying taxes to pay for medical care is that big a deal. I mean are we that cold hearted that we wont pay taxes to heal the sick? I realize that helping people may not be a "traditional" value, no offence intended.

Keep in mind after you pay the taxes you will no longer have to pay for health insurance.
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At least you have the money to run several trillion dollar fleet and seemingly enough money to invade half the world.
How much is a gun fired by a trooper 12k miles away and an intelligent bomb, fired by an stealth bomber, opposed to some medical powder, a bed and a nurse in the USA?

And how much is safed, when treating not only until it´s too late, but as early as possible according to the best possibilities?
 
Plus, the minimum regulatory policy of the conservatives led to the fact, that big enterprises can charge 80$ / per IU growth hormone instead of the price that´s charged in south america or other countries...

but this is coming to an end in these countries soon because of OECD, America and the world wide conspiracy of the global players(if not they´d be forced mby military and cut-off tradings, like mexico already is with it´s effort on liberal drug-policies and ethanol production from korn):
Invalid Link Removed -See site 13, and wait for your AAS, Supplement and hormones to vanish completely, or skyrocketing in prices and/or inavailability of self-medication because of world-wide forced patent-applications and see yourself being prosecuted world wide by an international co-ordinated policeforce, when one´s getting or even just tryin´ getting his hands on it, more than that, skyrocketing taxes and health-insurances oboli.
 
BodyWizard said:
The Libertarians are IMO even more useless, since they are too pure to actually try to achieve office - hell, they can't even hang on to their own agenda. Nitwits like Boortz and basket cases like the neo-cons have managed to define themselves as Libertarians without any noticeable complaint from any real libertarians, and they've managed to redefine for the public what libertarians believe - hell, I've heard *Mike Savage* called a libertarian.

As long as corporations have the same rights, privileges and freedoms as real people, nothing's going to change for the better.
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I'm a Libertarian -- I served as a delegate to the national convention -- and I completely agree with you about the party's poor track record. The insistence on idealogical purity leaves us with mostly dweeby or questionable candidates (as Harry Browne turned out to be). We can only hope that the socially blase' and practical-minded style of libertarianism you find with a lot of tech people will eclipse the uptight Randian style we've had for 35 years.

And yes, the corporate veil can be a really dangerous piece of legal fiction. No doubt. Watch the documentary "Enron: The Smartest Guys in the Room" sometime...

By the way: Anyone who believes that adults have the right to decide what goes into their own bodies is a libertarian on one issue, at least. When's the last time you heard a Democrat or Republican say, "I trust my constituents to look after their own health responsibly"? Much less, "My constituents can ingest whatever makes them feel good and it's none of my damn business"?
 
Party politics has left a sour taste in my mouth. It reminds me of football teams, and their fans. I prefer not being labeled, and instead be a free thinker.
 
Politically my views would be considered that of a libertarian.

At this point it doesn't matter who wins the Presidency, this country is fooked in a big way. My only hope is that there will be enough competant people to rebuild our REPUBLIC from the ashes.

Its either that or hello North American Union, next stop a "Utopian" World Government
 
two sides of the same coin.

both terms are used very loosely i presume. since demo's and rep's actually died in the 80's...........
 
Kristofer68SS said:
two sides of the same coin.

both terms are used very loosely i presume. since demo's and rep's actually died in the 80's...........
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very true, now it is just conservative and liberal and those lines are being blurred as well
 
I don't think of myself as a Democrat. It seems like the lines between the groups are getting very mixed up to the point it gets confusing. I don't like having the two groups anyways because it seems like it binds people too much to think a certain way. I have conservative views on some issues, but for the most part I am very liberal.

Also I don't see why Socialist, Communists, and Fascist aren't options.
 
I think people get the wrong idea of a more socialistic or communists society. People think they are these corrupted, ******* governments where they take all your money and tell you what you can say or can't because of people like Stalin and Mao. The system works to stabalize a country, the problem is the people who run it and there lies your problem. And you can have a democratic communism for those of you who don't know.
 
Vermonta said:
You can't be a socialist or a communist? Just because it is not mainstream does not mean there are not people out there that support that type of government.
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I guess you really are that stupid. This is a Democratic Republic, don't like it, then leave. Plenty of European countries with your ideals just waiting to take you in.
 
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