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any chance for bulk 1,4ad powder

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there were huge debates between lewellyn and Pa on bb.com,basically lewellyn didnt wanna give too much away but supposedly the dione is more orally active
 
The Iforce reps on another board were saying that PC for 1,4AD Bold requires only an AI such as 6-OXO. Anyone else want to chime in one that?
 
neoborn said:
Good post Neo, maybe theres someone that could answer that here for you?

Much love,

Neoborn
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You might want to run a few searches on bb.com. I know there's a ton of information in there from PA, BK, Llewellyn, big cat, etc regarding this compound.
 
neoborn said:
Can some people put some links in here for me with solid 1,4AD information?
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1,4-andro (1,4-androstadienedione)

Target Hormone: Boldenone (1-dihydrotestosterone)
Molecular name of target hormone: 1,4-androstadiene-3-one,17b-ol
Target conversion: moderate to high, estimated just over 10 %
Conversion enzyme: 17-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase (17HSD)
DHT conversion: some conversion
Estrogenic effects: aromatisation of the prohormone

Definitely more promising than the 5-AA. I found it has great resemblance to the 1AD in the fact that it has no estrogen aromatisation possibility, assures almost all gains as dry weight and the double bond at the one position which ensures greater oral activity without extra liver toxicity. However, Not here, nor on the 5AA by the way, was there any kind of study attached showing the efficacy of either product. It is touted as a precursor to boldenone, another popular steroid and pre-contest hardening agent. In this case there is more truth in it. Only that boldenone has a hydrogen and oxygen bonded and the 1,4-andro has a double bonded oxygen atom. Boldenone becomes methandrostenolone in its methylated form, also known as Dianabol, possibly the most popular oral steroid in the world, ever.

If this was a diol version this could without a doubt surpass any prohormone ever created, including 1AD. But it's a dione version with inherent flaws. I'm also not convinced a diol version will ever come out. Unlike 1AD which was created in a lab as a dione, then perfected to a diol, 1,4-andro isn't made by human hands but extracted from the feces of a cow. Cows are treated with progesterone for various reasons, and under that circumstance they produce this in their bowels it seems¹. This is the result of that isolation. It's also the topic of a hot debate of whether or not this is legal. In any case, 1,4-andro can be considered the non-5-alpha reduced version of 1AD and a potent anabolic precursor. However, it definitely leaves a lot of stacking options. Because of the 1-double bond it has a high oral efficacy, meaning low doses can exert an effect. So in a stack with another prohormone it may be able to rival the effect of a mild steroid, but again you'd have to be able to make it cost-effective for it to rival 1AD.

One thing I particularly like about 1,4-andro is that despite the fact that it can stimulate the androgen receptors and aromatize, it does both in such a small amount that side-effects are nearly non-existant. Combined with high oral efficacy it can easily match Nor-diol, perhaps even beat it, in the safety department. It can also be a handy supplement for endurance athletes since it stimulates Erythropoesis, the manufacture of red blood cells in the bone marrow and releasing them in large quantities in the blood. Red blood cells carry oxygen and this increases the capacity for strenuous and continual activity with a lessened risk of cramps or musclular failure. This is also the result of the hormone EPO (erythropoetin). Boldenone acts by increasing EPO release from the kidneys. Much like doing a height-stage. EPO is also a heavily abused drug amongst runners and cyclists. Another potent effect it may have is that despite slightly aromatizing itself, it may act as aromatase inhibitor for other products in several forms. One study showed this to be true for 1,4-androstadienedione² whereas another shows the same for several metabolites³. That makes 1,4-andro perfect for limiting estrogenic side-effects in a bulking stack as well.

sorry that's so long, I c/p'ed from a big cat article. unfortunately it's old and written by big cat :rofl:

what kind of info are you lookin for?
 
warnerve said:
If this was a diol version this could without a doubt surpass any prohormone ever created, including 1AD. But it's a dione version with inherent flaws. I'm also not convinced a diol version will ever come out. Unlike 1AD which was created in a lab as a dione, then perfected to a diol, 1,4-andro isn't made by human hands but extracted from the feces of a cow. Cows are treated with progesterone for various reasons, and under that circumstance they produce this in their bowels it seems¹. This is the result of that isolation. It's also the topic of a hot debate of whether or not this is legal. In any case, 1,4-andro can be considered the non-5-alpha reduced version of 1AD and a potent anabolic precursor. However, it definitely leaves a lot of stacking options. Because of the 1-double bond it has a high oral efficacy, meaning low doses can exert an effect. So in a stack with another prohormone it may be able to rival the effect of a mild steroid, but again you'd have to be able to make it cost-effective for it to rival 1AD.
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I saw this one too, but I'm not sure how accurate the information is in regards to dione vs. diol. If I remember correctly, most people seemed to get better results from the dione (which is what molecular had patented and sold as boldione). It was hypothesized that this was due to the fact that the dione allowed for aromatization and the added estrogen was beneficial in terms of mass gains.

I do know however that many seemed to have success with the VPX EQ product (which I think was the diol suspended in oil).

Regardless, I'm looking forward to NP picking this up. I really think that it will work best in an oil solution (I'll probably use bulk sesathin or olive oil) to increase lymphatic absorption of the 1,4.
 
quigs said:
If i'm not mistaken, the conversion rate for 1,4AD is estimated at around 10-12% average...and I've seen estimates as high as 15% conversion to boldenone. If we do the math here, at the low end (10% conversion) 800mg/day would give us roughly 80mg of boldenone. This translates to around 560mg boldenone/week. I'd think that most would get pretty solid results from this dosage...especially if stacking with one of the popular designers.

So yeah, I'm pretty pumped to see this happen...
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Oh, and I think that my above post was incorrect. I've done a bit more reading on the 1,4AD and realized that I'm a bit off in my math. I did not take into consideration the oral bioavailability of the compound--which I've seen estimated at around 45%.

So in this case, we're talking about roughly 1/2 of the consumed 1,4 actually making it into circulation. Taking it with a fatty meal should improve this to some degree. So that means...

1000mg of 1,4 consumed = roughly 450mg absorbed. The estimated conversion is in the ballpark of 10-12%. Out of the 450mg making it into circulation, we get about 45-54mg actual boldenone. This equates to around 315-378mg boldenone/week.

So yeah, for most to get good results they're going to need 1g + per day most likely. This is why 1,4 AD never really had the popularity that many of the other PH's of that era did. It was generally underdosed (100mg/cap) and very costly to run at adequate dosages.
 
quigs said:
Oh, and I think that my above post was incorrect. I've done a bit more reading on the 1,4AD and realized that I'm a bit off in my math. I did not take into consideration the oral bioavailability of the compound--which I've seen estimated at around 45%.

So in this case, we're talking about roughly 1/2 of the consumed 1,4 actually making it into circulation. Taking it with a fatty meal should improve this to some degree. So that means...

1000mg of 1,4 consumed = roughly 450mg absorbed. The estimated conversion is in the ballpark of 10-12%. Out of the 450mg making it into circulation, we get about 45-54mg actual boldenone. This equates to around 315-378mg boldenone/week.

So yeah, for most to get good results they're going to need 1g + per day most likely. This is why 1,4 AD never really had the popularity that many of the other PH's of that era did. It was generally underdosed (100mg/cap) and very costly to run at adequate dosages.
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great post if everything your saying is correct
 
I ran 1,4 with a 1T cycle a few years back and the pumps were insane. I used it for a bulker, but it would probably be awesome for a recomp or even cutting.
 
Rodja said:
I think it was 800mg of 1,4 oral and 250 mg of 1T transdermal for 6 weeks. It was over 2 years ago so my recollection is a little hazy.
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na thats cool good to know seems most have to take 600-2g daily to get most benefit out of it. i cannot imagine buying 5 bottles for one freaking month that better be the most amazing product if thats the case esp if stacked with something like EPI or anything else that would be recommened

maybe even jungle warfare or something or hyperdrol
 
I was sitting here thinking what I could do to show Dsade my joy after all this time, for finally coming through on this one, and I decided I would make a lil something in photoshop:

*Tada*

Invalid Link Removed

With Love,

Neoborn
 
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neoborn said:
I was sitting here thinking what I could do to show Dsade my joy after all this time, for finally coming through on this one, and I decided I would make a lil something in photoshop:

*Tada*

Invalid Link Removed

With Love,

Neoborn
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Cow poop? That's f*ckin weird man.
 
bioman said:
Horse poope technically...it's where 1,4 ADD is extracted from.
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Pretty sure its cow...its a metabolite of the progesterone the cows are given. Its found in the digestive tract, then feces. Might be horses too, I dunno...but this was Llewyllen's arguement of why it should be DSHEA compliant.

Others disagreed because poop isn't exactly part of the normal food supply.
 
actually it from the hormones being injected into the cow..i.e fina and whatever else and is expelled by the cow i.e poop..lol.this is why 1'4 was so controversial..it is not natural because it comes from steroids and other hormones
 
wojo said:
actually it from the hormones being injected into the cow..i.e fina and whatever else and is expelled by the cow i.e poop..lol.this is why 1'4 was so controversial..it is not natural because it comes from steroids and other hormones
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What the half life of 1'4 ad ? wondering about dosing .
 
Just waiting on lead time, gentlemen...this is going to happen soon.
 
bioman said:
I don't want anything else

When I think about bulk 1,4,ADD..I touch myself.
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You realize this is not a transdermal, correct?
 
Got to hand it to you Matt that's a sweet price. I think it was double that when I got mine and that was in bulk. I would have thought it would be higher still now after all that has come to pass with the ban.

Is it qty that got the price so low or is it just that cheap(er) now than it was back then?
 
Can I beta test this please :) I am a newb and so can give it a solid review :D How about I go with 1g a day for the first two weeks then to 2g a week for 4 weeks. 44g's in total = $66 buckaroonies.

Does this need a SERM? ( don't laugh I'm PH / PS / AAS virgin ). I'm thinking yes but would like to make sure anywho.
 
This thread has become a masturbatorium of 1,4 AD's making.

'Tis the Devil's Prohormone! Capable of driving men MAD with lust..it's....



1,4 ANDROSTENODIOL MADNESS

Certain to bring about the ruination of this country!
 
B5150 said:
Got to hand it to you Matt that's a sweet price. I think it was double that when I got mine and that was in bulk. I would have thought it would be higher still now after all that has come to pass with the ban.

Is it qty that got the price so low or is it just that cheap(er) now than it was back then?
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Production techniques get honed to perfection, which cuts cost. Also, not so many name brands out there, since there are a lot flashier options. From my understanding, this is not super difficult to synthesize, and the quantity we are going to pick up drives the price down.

We also do not like to VPX-markup our products at 10,000%, so price to customer stays low. Nutraplanet understands that the smartest move is to keep profit reasonable, and look at the long term return customers that will have that much more savings that they are willing to invest in things they would not normally have the money to buy.
 
dsade said:
Production techniques get honed to perfection, which cuts cost. Also, not so many name brands out there, since there are a lot flashier options. From my understanding, this is not super difficult to synthesize, and the quantity we are going to pick up drives the price down.

We also do not like to VPX-markup our products at 10,000%, so price to customer stays low. Nutraplanet understands that the smartest move is to keep profit reasonable, and look at the long term return customers that will have that much more savings that they are willing to invest in things they would not normally have the money to buy.
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:thumbsup: you better get truckload, people from everywhere will come to NP to buy this. Probably wont keep it in stock very often, at least not at first. DO me a favor and PM me right before you put it on the NP site.:twisted:
 
dsade said:
Production techniques get honed to perfection, which cuts cost. Also, not so many name brands out there, since there are a lot flashier options. From my understanding, this is not super difficult to synthesize, and the quantity we are going to pick up drives the price down.

We also do not like to VPX-markup our products at 10,000%, so price to customer stays low. Nutraplanet understands that the smartest move is to keep profit reasonable, and look at the long term return customers that will have that much more savings that they are willing to invest in things they would not normally have the money to buy.
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Amen to that!
 
dsade said:
Production techniques get honed to perfection, which cuts cost. Also, not so many name brands out there, since there are a lot flashier options. From my understanding, this is not super difficult to synthesize, and the quantity we are going to pick up drives the price down.

We also do not like to VPX-markup our products at 10,000%, so price to customer stays low. Nutraplanet understands that the smartest move is to keep profit reasonable, and look at the long term return customers that will have that much more savings that they are willing to invest in things they would not normally have the money to buy.
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You forgot to include pictures of monkeys with fancy graphs to go along with your business plan, dude. How could you?
 
dsade said:
Just waiting on lead time, gentlemen...this is going to happen soon.
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Awesome news. Just to clarify, we're only talking about the 1,4 diol right? I remember you stating that you'd like to carry both the diol and dione at some point...
 
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