any chance for bulk 1,4ad powder

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I believe we are shooting for the dione first.
 
dsade said:
I believe we are shooting for the dione first.
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Oh, glad I asked. I've been thinking diol.

Honestly, seems that the dione produced superior results when dosed high enough...so I'm happy to see this.
 
can I get a rough timeframe as I would like to hold if possible before my next order but if it's too long I'll go with ordering now?
 
quigs said:
Awesome news. Just to clarify, we're only talking about the 1,4 diol right? I remember you stating that you'd like to carry both the diol and dione at some point...
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someone explain to this newb <---- ME. what the diff is :P ty
 
nycste said:
someone explain to this newb <---- ME. what the diff is :P ty
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Both should have good oral bioavailablity and high conversion rates to boldenone. The dione will aromatize, while the diol cannot.

There has been some debate as to which variation is best. Anecdotal evidence (user reports) seems to support the dione being superior at producing gains in size and strength. It has been hypothesized that the estrogenic properties of the dione are contributing to the size increases that users experience.

William Llewellyn chose to go with the dione version of 1,4 AD with his boldione product. He felt that this was superior to the diol.
 
actually it was believed that the diol was more estrogenice because there was a o ring that looked like estradiol..or something i am def not a chemist just repeating what i read .the dione was supposed to be more orally active...pa admited that was why he released the dione version of 1-adione first,but it made a lot of users feel like they were pissing razor blades...there are pages of this debate on bb.com
 
I see folks talking about buying 200, 300g, are there going to be different price points for higher quantitys, or 1.50 g regardless of amount. This could be lots O money, hope things all go smooth.
 
hey NP - whats the latest?? and when u say 'dione' is this androstenedrione? im little confused here. i just started reading this thread (if u couldnt tell) lol
 
wojo said:
actually it was believed that the diol was more estrogenice because there was a o ring that looked like estradiol..or something i am def not a chemist just repeating what i read .the dione was supposed to be more orally active...pa admited that was why he released the dione version of 1-adione first,but it made a lot of users feel like they were pissing razor blades...there are pages of this debate on bb.com
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Okay, I'm no chemist either but I stayed at a holiday inn express last night. Yea, bad joke but whatever. I've got a couple semesters of organic chem under my belt (although I don't remember much) and a couple years of biochem as well...

Anyways, I'm pretty sure that I have this straight. I took a look at the bb.com Big Cat article on 1,4 AD and I'm guessing that this is where you got your info? It was a bit confusing, and I could see how you would take from it that the diol will aromatize while the dione wouldn't. He was pretty vague, and since he's talking about both at once its confusing.

In order for the hormone to aromatize, we need a double bond (usually to oxygen C=O). A dione (ketone functional group, C=O) has this characteristic. A diol (alcohol functional group, C-OH) only has the single bond...so it won't directly be able to aromatize. I know this is very basic, but I'm tired and lazy. I did a quick search, and couldn't find a picture of 1,4 AD to show you what I'm talking about...but I did find a nice pic of testosterone --->estradiol conversion via aromatase enzyme...which looks very similar.

Invalid Link Removed

As you can see, the C=O bond on testosterone has been broken forming the aromatic ring (6 carbon ring with alternating double C=C bonds) characteristic of estrogens.

So...

-dione --> Ketone functional group (C=O) can aromatize
-diol --> Alcohol functional group (C-OH) won't aromatize

*Edit - 1st pic is testosterone, 2nd is estradiol. Just to clarify.
 
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P4D2A022 said:
hey NP - whats the latest?? and when u say 'dione' is this androstenedrione? im little confused here. i just started reading this thread (if u couldnt tell) lol
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1,4 Androstendione AKA boldione AKA I-force Bold. Great prohormone to boldenone. Giddy up. :)
 
gotcha q. howcome this hasnt really blown up tho? i mean i know its somewhat popular because i know my prohormones, but it hasnt blown up like superdrol, phera-plex, h-50 and etc..
 
P4D2A022 said:
gotcha q. howcome this hasnt really blown up tho? i mean i know its somewhat popular because i know my prohormones, but it hasnt blown up like superdrol, phera-plex, h-50 and etc..
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One word...price. This compound needs to be run at a high dose to truely be effective...and everytime a supplement company has produced 1,4 its been significantly underdosed and/or highly priced. This really wasn't a very cost effective product.

Granted, I've seen people report some pretty good results when dosing at 600mg/day, but I think that they will be the minority. Really this stuff should be run at 800mg minimum (for a beginner or if part of a stack) and ideally should be run in the 1.5g/day range. I posted earlier in this thread about the boldenone conversion:

quigs said:
Oh, and I think that my above post was incorrect. I've done a bit more reading on the 1,4AD and realized that I'm a bit off in my math. I did not take into consideration the oral bioavailability of the compound--which I've seen estimated at around 45%.

So in this case, we're talking about roughly 1/2 of the consumed 1,4 actually making it into circulation. Taking it with a fatty meal should improve this to some degree. So that means...

1000mg of 1,4 consumed = roughly 450mg absorbed. The estimated conversion is in the ballpark of 10-12%. Out of the 450mg making it into circulation, we get about 45-54mg actual boldenone. This equates to around 315-378mg boldenone/week.

So yeah, for most to get good results they're going to need 1g + per day most likely. This is why 1,4 AD never really had the popularity that many of the other PH's of that era did. It was generally underdosed (100mg/cap) and very costly to run at adequate dosages.
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Now the reason that I'm excited, along with everyone else, is because finally this stuff will be cheap enough so that we can dose it adequately. I honestly think that this may be the best PH currently available, when taking into consideration the lean gains, increased endurance, increased collagen synthesis (tendons, ligaments), libido, lack liver toxicity/general sides, etc. Boldenone is one of my favorite anabolic steroids, and finally we'll be getting a realistic legal alternative.

Also, boldenone won't pack on the mass as quickly as some of the afformentioned (SD, PP, etc)...but rather will provide steady lean gains which will be easily maintained post cycle.
 
i gotcha now bro. i really would purchase some if NP decided to make some bulk powder.. do u think they are leaning toward producing some or no??
 
P4D2A022 said:
i gotcha now bro. i really would purchase some if NP decided to make some bulk powder.. do u think they are leaning toward producing some or no??
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dsade said:
Just waiting on lead time, gentlemen...this is going to happen soon.
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I'm watching this thread closely, dont wanna miss out like i did on the bulk adrenosterone :(
 
I was hoping for the diol but dione will suffice. Most should respond well to 1g/day maybe even 1.5g but several grams per day seems a bit high to me. I'm sure all 25kgs will be gone in the first day so any chance of a preorder?
 
quigs said:
One word...price. This compound needs to be run at a high dose to truely be effective...and everytime a supplement company has produced 1,4 its been significantly underdosed and/or highly priced. This really wasn't a very cost effective product.

Granted, I've seen people report some pretty good results when dosing at 600mg/day, but I think that they will be the minority. Really this stuff should be run at 800mg minimum (for a beginner or if part of a stack) and ideally should be run in the 1.5g/day range. I posted earlier in this thread about the boldenone conversion:



Now the reason that I'm excited, along with everyone else, is because finally this stuff will be cheap enough so that we can dose it adequately. I honestly think that this may be the best PH currently available, when taking into consideration the lean gains, increased endurance, increased collagen synthesis (tendons, ligaments), libido, lack liver toxicity/general sides, etc. Boldenone is one of my favorite anabolic steroids, and finally we'll be getting a realistic legal alternative.

Also, boldenone won't pack on the mass as quickly as some of the afformentioned (superdrol, PP, etc)...but rather will provide steady lean gains which will be easily maintained post cycle.
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A writeup at bb lists the total conversion much higher, at about 10% converted to boldenone when all is said and done. The following figures are listed there:

400mg/day = 280mg/week boldenone
600mg/day = 420mg/week boldenone
800mg/day = 560mg/week boldenone
1 gram/day = 700mg/week boldenone

Compared to the figures here:

It is 45% orally active and 15% converts to boldenone.

1g/d x 7/d x .45 x .15 = .4725mg boldenone per week

Daily dose to weekly boldenone dose after conversion:
1g/d = 475mg week boldenone
1.2g/ = 565mg week boldenone
1.4g/d = 660mg week boldenone
1.6g/d = 750mg week boldenone

That is a pretty large difference. I am guessing that the higher figures from the other site do not take into account the oral bioavailability of the compound being at 45%? Or am I missing something?
 
perhaps they're in vivo vs. in vitro?

all in all, it's pretty tough to accurately distinguish how well a PH converts in the body.
 
Bwill said:
A writeup at bb lists the total conversion much higher, at about 10% converted to boldenone when all is said and done. The following figures are listed there:

400mg/day = 280mg/week boldenone
600mg/day = 420mg/week boldenone
800mg/day = 560mg/week boldenone
1 gram/day = 700mg/week boldenone

Compared to the figures here:

It is 45% orally active and 15% converts to boldenone.

1g/d x 7/d x .45 x .15 = .4725mg boldenone per week

Daily dose to weekly boldenone dose after conversion:
1g/d = 475mg week boldenone
1.2g/ = 565mg week boldenone
1.4g/d = 660mg week boldenone
1.6g/d = 750mg week boldenone

That is a pretty large difference. I am guessing that the higher figures from the other site do not take into account the oral bioavailability of the compound being at 45%? Or am I missing something?
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where did you get the second list of numbers? are these for the diol or dione versions. Im not to familiar with the differences besides what has just been stated in this thread....which has better oral bioavailability, dione or diol? WHicher that is, i think thats what NP should go with.
 
ersatz said:
I'm sure all 25kgs will be gone in the first day so any chance of a preorder?
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Quite likely, if you ask me. As soon as we get word that it has been shipped we can offer a preorder.
 
pistonpump said:
where did you get the second list of numbers? are these for the diol or dione versions. Im not to familiar with the differences besides what has just been stated in this thread....which has better oral bioavailability, dione or diol? WHicher that is, i think thats what NP should go with.
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Dione, from a 1,4AD Bold discussion on BB.com. I think the 10% figure came from a writeup on that site.
 
Bwill said:
A writeup at bb lists the total conversion much higher, at about 10% converted to boldenone when all is said and done. The following figures are listed there:

400mg/day = 280mg/week boldenone
600mg/day = 420mg/week boldenone
800mg/day = 560mg/week boldenone
1 gram/day = 700mg/week boldenone

Compared to the figures here:

It is 45% orally active and 15% converts to boldenone.

1g/d x 7/d x .45 x .15 = .4725mg boldenone per week

Daily dose to weekly boldenone dose after conversion:
1g/d = 475mg week boldenone
1.2g/ = 565mg week boldenone
1.4g/d = 660mg week boldenone
1.6g/d = 750mg week boldenone

That is a pretty large difference. I am guessing that the higher figures from the other site do not take into account the oral bioavailability of the compound being at 45%? Or am I missing something?
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Who wrote this write-up? I'm guessing an I-force rep? Looks like they didn't take into consideration the oral bioavailability.

Also, if the afformentioned were true then users would be reporting much better results with the lower dosages IMO.
 
thesinner said:
perhaps they're in vivo vs. in vitro?

all in all, it's pretty tough to accurately distinguish how well a PH converts in the body.
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yeah kinda. If the 1,4 was injected then their estimates would be much more accurate. Taken orally? no way.
 
i dont care how bad it tastes.. i want some! if NP does make the powder, how long do u think well have to wait for it to come out??
 
dsade said:
I can't say I have experience here...but has anyone actually tasted the raw powder? How bad is it?
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Just tasted it. It is not horrible. A little acidic. I have a pretty good tolerance for chemicals and this is a 3 or 4 on a 10 scale.
 
B5150 said:
Just tasted it. It is not horrible. A little acidic. I have a pretty good tolerance for chemicals and this is a 3 or 4 on a 10 scale.
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Beautiful....yet another step forward to making this happen in the next 2 weeks or so.
 
ok no joke as a celebration i will put 1 gram ($1.50) in a bath and soak in it everyday for a week...
 
BeastMode said:
i want to know about the pre-order!
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I am sure if you have a low post count, add extra exclamation marks and maybe threaten D'sexy you will most definitely find this out Invalid Link Removed

The above post is not to be taken seriously by anyone with half a brain cell or more!!!

Forgive me for asking but after all the chatter what is the optimal dosage for this then....1.5g's a day? Cycle length?

Thanks in advance!

Neoborn.
 
nycste said:
i demand an explanation btw the two BROTHA... thanks
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Well there's just two processes by which to mass produce 1,4AD.

Fermentation, which would require a some time of fungus/bacteria/enzyme (my guess is a type of bacteria) break down a larger compound into the PH.

Synthesis, would be the combining of two or more compounds to produce the PH.

They cost about the same price, but one is *slightly less. I'm not 100%, but I think the fermented kind is the more cost efficient.

Anyhow, the reason I asked this is because by the way the Ph is processed, those extra little ppm's (or even ppb's) of process impurities could effect the overall taste of the compound.
 
thesinner said:
Well there's just two processes by which to mass produce 1,4AD.

Fermentation, which would require a some time of fungus/bacteria/enzyme (my guess is a type of bacteria) break down a larger compound into the PH.

Synthesis, would be the combining of two or more compounds to produce the PH.

They cost about the same price, but one is *slightly less. I'm not 100%, but I think the fermented kind is the more cost efficient.

Anyhow, the reason I asked this is because by the way the Ph is processed, those extra little ppm's (or even ppb's) of process impurities could effect the overall taste of the compound.
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very nice response thanks
 
Looks like this is around 2 weeks out.
 
i get first dibs since i started the thread!!!! if there is a gram or 2 left you guys can disburse it amongst yourselves :D
 
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