Antidepressants...

pistonpump said:
well said.

Forgiving others is easy, forgiving one's self is alot harder...

For the sake of the thread did you have any sexual sides with the paxil?
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Yes, especially at higher doses and initially. Sex became a marathon session; and many times orgasm through intercourse alone did not occur. This may be "TMI", but the problems were not with desire or "wood", but with a feeling of decreased sensitivity.
 
"For men (and this applies to me especially) a good deal of depression stems from bitterness (hope deferred/unmet needs) and a lack of forgiveness. Forgiveness, as counter-intuitive as it may seem, is the most freeing thing (daily process, actually) to distance yourself from past hurt.

I wish the process of forgiveness was easier/more natural - but whatever the cost - it is well worth it"


Agree 100%.
 
Beau said:
I used Paxil at 40mg, then went to 30mg, and finally 20mg. I'll say this, most anxiety and a lot of the stress we have comes from things we cannot control (they may happened in the past, or - if in the future - we may be filling in the blanks with negative self talk and "as a man thinkest in his heart, so is he").

For men (and this applies to me especially) a good deal of depression stems from bitterness (hope deferred/unmet needs) and a lack of forgiveness. Forgiveness, as counter-intuitive as it may seem, is the most freeing thing (daily process, actually) to distance yourself from past hurt.

I wish the process of forgiveness was easier/more natural - but whatever the cost - it is well worth it.
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This is so true. The saddest part for men is that in most instances, no matter how hard they try they cant let go, never realizing that it is their ability to do that which will bring them happiness at the end of it all.

Pistonpump said:
well said.

Forgiving others is easy, forgiving one's self is alot harder...
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It is amazing the grief that we hold onto, and sometimes how we hold on to it without even knowing it
 
bioman said:
"For men (and this applies to me especially) a good deal of depression stems from bitterness (hope deferred/unmet needs) and a lack of forgiveness. Forgiveness, as counter-intuitive as it may seem, is the most freeing thing (daily process, actually) to distance yourself from past hurt.

I wish the process of forgiveness was easier/more natural - but whatever the cost - it is well worth it"


Agree 100%.
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Forgiveness is easy, if you don't hold a grudge.

Perspective is also important. In the grand scheme of things I would say it's safe to say that we are all much better off than many if not most people on the planet.
 
gdbear65 said:
Forgiveness is easy, if you don't hold a grudge.

Perspective is also important. In the grand scheme of things I would say it's safe to say that we are all much better off than many if not most people on the planet.
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well perspective changes from day to day for most of us. We have to be reminded of the things we should be thankful for and that humbles you. If youve ****ed up in the past pretty bad, you dont want to forget your mistakes so it makes it hard to forgive yourself even if you thought you did before.
 
pistonpump said:
well perspective changes from day to day for most of us. We have to be reminded of the things we should be thankful for and that humbles you. If youve ****ed up in the past pretty bad, you dont want to forget your mistakes so it makes it hard to forgive yourself even if you thought you did before.
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id rep that..great post bro:thumbsup: ...but im whored for 24..
 
A couple of additional comments .....

Re being humble: A good perspective can be found by looking at pride/selfishness on one end of the spectrum and humbleness/servanthood on the other; and then look at what we are doing and see where it falls. Sometimes, we cringe when really looking at our motives.

Forgiving others isn't easy for everyone. Candidly, it has been an issue for me when having to deal with the aftermath of certain types of serious transgressions done against me. I've had a couple of things REALLY rock the foundation of my life - truly - and I've had to learn to "give those up". To me, that meant giving them to God, but I am a pretty stubborn guy - and I kept grabbing it back and harboring it.

I've heard it said many ways - and this is one (although it sounds a bit trite): Resentment/bitterness/unforgiveness is like the bitter person drinking poison and expectimng the other person to suffer. It doesn't work that way - harboring resentment and reliving the hurt only destroys the unforgiving person.

I've known the truth of that "in my head" for years; it just took a long time to make it "part of my heart". I wish I could have fast forwarded that process.

OK - that is all with the touchy/feely part.

Oh, and in the case this sounds somewhat "pussified" - I am a 48 year old husband and dad. For many years I was willing to look only at the symptoms of the things that hurt me (always expressing it as anger); I think the best thing any of us can do is face the things we keep deeply buried, and hidden from others (and sometimes we hide it/them from ourselves). That has been both a real threat and a real blessing - although it involved a good deal of pain and honesty.
 
Beau said:
A couple of additional comments .....

Re being humble: A good perspective can be found by looking at pride/selfishness on one end of the spectrum and humbleness/servanthood on the other; and then look at what we are doing and see where it falls. Sometimes, we cringe when really looking at our motives.

Forgiving others isn't easy for everyone. Candidly, it has been an issue for me when having to deal with the aftermath of certain types of serious transgressions done against me. I've had a couple of things REALLY rock the foundation of my life - truly - and I've had to learn to "give those up". To me, that meant giving them to God, but I am a pretty stubborn guy - and I kept grabbing it back and harboring it.

I've heard it said many ways - and this is one (although it sounds a bit trite): Resentment/bitterness/unforgiveness is like the bitter person drinking poison and expectimng the other person to suffer. It doesn't work that way - harboring resentment and reliving the hurt only destroys the unforgiving person.

I've know that "in my head" for years; it just took a long time to make it "part of my heart".

OK - that is all with the touchy/feely part.
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this is very true. It is very hard, especially for men it seems, to understand it is ok to forgive, and in fact it is healthier to do that. I am trying at the present time to do it as well, and the more you try the more you hold onto things it seems. Sooner or later you either let it go or let it consume you
 
Reaper329 said:
this is very true. It is very hard, especially for men it seems, to understand it is ok to forgive, and in fact it is healthier to do that. I am trying at the present time to do it as well, and the more you try the more you hold onto things it seems. Sooner or later you either let it go or let it consume you
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I've found some very good resources (books) that I would highly recommend; if you need some additional tools (I sure did). Many books are just fluff; but I've found 2 or 3 to be really *****in' (edit - the word I used was b-i-t-c-h-i-n'). Really.

I'll be happy to give you the titles (just PM me if you'd like them. Clearly, I get no benefit other than trying to help others who may have been struggling with the same issue).
 
Beau said:
I think the best thing any of us can do is face the things we keep deeply buried, and hidden from others (and sometimes we hide it/them from ourselves). That has been both a real threat and a real blessing - although it involved a good deal of pain and honesty.
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Introspection is difficult for many people and it's especially difficult to be objective when looking at one's self.
 
Beau said:
I've found some very good resources (books) that I would highly recommend; if you need some additional tools (I sure did). Many books are just fluff; but I've found 2 or 3 to be really *****in' (edit - the word I used was b-i-t-c-h-i-n'). Really.

I'll be happy to give you the titles (just PM me if you'd like them. Clearly, I get no benefit other than trying to help others who may have been struggling with the same issue).
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PM sent thanks
 
I think I'm now leaning toward Zoloft. Everything I've read in other message boards seems to point to that one being the favorite. My doc appointment is in a couple hours.

Has anybody said how long to kick in? What does did you do. Could a higher dose be done in the beginning, kind of like a front-load to get things working faster. I really don't want to wait several weeks just to see if it's working.
 
CRUNCH said:
I think I'm now leaning toward Zoloft. Everything I've read in other message boards seems to point to that one being the favorite. My doc appointment is in a couple hours.

Has anybody said how long to kick in? What does did you do. Could a higher dose be done in the beginning, kind of like a front-load to get things working faster. I really don't want to wait several weeks just to see if it's working.
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ssri's take a few weeks to take effect....
 
Beau said:
For me, I "felt" Paxil on the first day.
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placebo effect???? medically they are not fast acting substances what so ever......
 
If you're going to go for an SSRI, which are far more affective for depression than Welbutrin IMHO, go with Celexa. The chemical compound is less complex and the side effects are very minimal. I had taken Paxil for 2 years, and the sexual side effects were rediculous! I could get hard easily, but orgasms were practically non-existant. It would take me HOURS to get one, and when I did, it was like throwing a pebble into the ocean. No bueno!
 
CRUNCH said:
I think I'm now leaning toward Zoloft. Everything I've read in other message boards seems to point to that one being the favorite. My doc appointment is in a couple hours.

Has anybody said how long to kick in? What does did you do. Could a higher dose be done in the beginning, kind of like a front-load to get things working faster. I really don't want to wait several weeks just to see if it's working.
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how'd it go with the doc??
 
Well...got back from the doc a couple hours ago. After I explained everything to him, I think he was surprised I wasn't asking for a razor blade instead. He gave me Zoloft, starting off at 150 mgs. I told him I preferred to start higher with out the ramp-up as I didn't want this to take months to start working, and worst case, it not be the right one for me and having to start the whole process over again with a different one. So we'll see!
 
CRUNCH said:
Well...got back from the doc a couple hours ago. After I explained everything to him, I think he was surprised I wasn't asking for a razor blade instead. He gave me Zoloft, starting off at 150 mgs. I told him I preferred to start higher with out the ramp-up as I didn't want this to take months to start working, and worst case, it not be the right one for me and having to start the whole process over again with a different one. So we'll see!
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holly sh*t you type fast
 
CRUNCH said:
Well...got back from the doc a couple hours ago. After I explained everything to him, I think he was surprised I wasn't asking for a razor blade instead. He gave me Zoloft, starting off at 150 mgs. I told him I preferred to start higher with out the ramp-up as I didn't want this to take months to start working, and worst case, it not be the right one for me and having to start the whole process over again with a different one. So we'll see!
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Best of luck. Here is hoping you receive the relief it sounds as if you really need.
 
CRUNCH said:
LOL...I was typing it at the same time you were asking!
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i was like :eek: ...dam he could get just about any secretary job with those skills...........i was on zoloft a few years ago...nothing neg to say about it...i thought it helped me with issues at the time....so i had a favorable experience with it..
 
TripDog said:
i was like :eek: ...dam he could get just about any secretary job with those skills...........i was on zoloft a few years ago...nothing neg to say about it...i thought it helped me with issues at the time....so i had a favorable experience with it..
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That's good to know, I feel somewhat better just knowing I've got something that could even possibly help. I really do appreciate your help Trip, along with everybody else. I'll keep the thread updated with how it works after a couple weeks.
 
An FYI:

Recent studies suggest that taking SSRI antidepressants such as Paxil, Prozac, Zoloft, etc., can decrease the effectiveness of tamoxifen (Nolva), because these drugs compete for the CYP2D6 enzyme which is needed to metabolize tamoxifen (and other SERMs) into the active form endoxifen.
 
Vordhosbn said:
An FYI:

Recent studies suggest that taking SSRI antidepressants such as Paxil, Prozac, Zoloft, etc., can decrease the effectiveness of tamoxifen (Nolva), because these drugs compete for the CYP2D6 enzyme which is needed to metabolize tamoxifen (and other SERMs) into the active form endoxifen.
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wow...thanks for the heads up
 
good luck crunch. I have been reading and have been having troubles that might lead to this as well
 
I was given zoloft and you have to ramp up. you can get sides but just starting off high. I remember once i double dosed the largest dose side (dont know how much mgs) but i got a pretty bad drymouth like real bad. I cant really remember what else but it was unpleasant. I stopped taking it without my doctors advice because i felt like although the lows were not as bad, the highs did not get as high either. Like i was zombiefied at times, numb. I hope it works for you, i still have a bunch (about 2 years old) Ive gotten close to using it again but i just try my best to deal with my problems or in most cases, ignore them :( . I still have ALOT to learn and experience even tho ive been thru alot. Good luck Crunch.
 
I took zoloft for a brief period of time when I was younger. I didn't see any loss in sexual function although I was still an adolescent. Not sure if it helps but its my only experience with them.

RR
 
Vordhosbn said:
An FYI:

Recent studies suggest that taking SSRI antidepressants such as Paxil, Prozac, Zoloft, etc., can decrease the effectiveness of tamoxifen (Nolva), because these drugs compete for the CYP2D6 enzyme which is needed to metabolize tamoxifen (and other SERMs) into the active form endoxifen.
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That's probably why Epistane has me feeling like I am floating around. It's a very calm feeling..kinda nice..but I'd hate to have to do some serious brain work in this state. Dr D was right.
 
with high doses of SSRI such as starting out at 150mg, anxiety can be a serious side effect, and an anxious person who is depressed can turn into a real mess, this is probably why your doc started you on xnax unless you had pre-existing anxiety then it was probably for both.
 
greenwing7 said:
with high doses of SSRI such as starting out at 150mg, anxiety can be a serious side effect, and an anxious person who is depressed can turn into a real mess, this is probably why your doc started you on xnax unless you had pre-existing anxiety then it was probably for both.
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.......ssri's increase anxiety???????....post something that can back that up..........i do think your quote is good...we all seek feedback........trip
 
Well I just talked about it with one of the pharmacists I work with, I'll look for literature tomorrow at work... its mostly with a very high starting dose though not and only on the front end from the way he (the pharmacist) was describing it to me... but I will try and find info on this
 
just out of curiosity, I just started a run with Epistane and just in case I am given a prescription how do they interact? Anything to be concerned with?
 
TripDOG you had me worried that I may have given bad info but I found a source, I know wikipedia isn't the best in terms of accuracy but its easy to use and thats where I found this.....

Pharmacodynamics
Further information: Pharmacodynamics
SSRIs inhibit the reuptake of the neurotransmitter serotonin (5-hydroxytryptamine or 5-HT) into the presynaptic cell, increasing levels of 5-HT within the synaptic cleft.

But there is one counteracting effect: high serotonin levels will not only activate the postsynaptic receptors, but also flood presynaptic autoreceptors, that serve as a feedback sensor for the cell. Activation of the autoreceptors (by agonists like serotonin) triggers a throttling of serotonin production. The resulting serotonin deficiency persists for some time, as the transporter inhibition occurs downstream to the cause of the deficiency, and is therefore not able to counterbalance it. The body adapts gradually to this situation by lowering (downregulating) the sensitivity of the autoreceptors.

Of greater importance is another adaptive process: the downregulation of postsynaptic serotonin 5-HT2A receptors.

These (slowly proceeding) neurophysiological adaptions of the brain tissue are the reason why usually several weeks of continuous SSRI use are necessary for the antidepressant effect to become fully manifested, and why increased anxiety is a common side effect in the first few days or weeks of use.
 
There has definitely been some anxiety the past couple days! The Xanax helps with that some, but also makes to freaking tired.
 
greenwing7 said:
These (slowly proceeding) neurophysiological adaptions of the brain tissue are the reason why usually several weeks of continuous SSRI use are necessary for the antidepressant effect to become fully manifested, and why increased anxiety is a common side effect in the first few days or weeks of use.
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this has me concerned if and when I need to start taking an antidepressant
 
Reaper329 said:
this has me concerned if and when I need to start taking an antidepressant
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That's why 1: I wanted to start at a higher dose. I didn't want to pvssy-foot around ramping up to the dose I would need. And 2: Why he gave me the Xanax. The Xanax is working, but there's a fine line between enough to get rid of the jitters and too much, which makes me so tired I can't lift my freaking head up.

The anxiety part seems to get better by the afternoon as well. I noticed this yesterday too (I'm on day 3). This morning and early afternoon was terrible. It's now about 3:30 where I am, and I'm not feeling too bad at all.
 
Reaper329 said:
this has me concerned if and when I need to start taking an antidepressant
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there are other classes of antidepressants that work differently and therefore have a whole different lineup of side effects... plus, as with most drugs, they affect everyone a little differently so anxiety may not be a major side effect for you
 
greenwing7 said:
there are other classes of antidepressants that work differently and therefore have a whole different lineup of side effects... plus, as with most drugs, they affect everyone a little differently so anxiety may not be a major side effect for you
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That kind of scares me too. What if the Zoloft isn't the one for me and how many months of trying new things could there be before you finally feel decent?? Plus, that added possibility of the ones you try making you feel worse. Between here, Erowid and a couple other sites, Zoloft seemd to be the most promising for the most people. Either that or I may just start a heroin addiction instead. If anybody wants to join me in that one, maybe we can get discounts buying in bulk.
 
We've really not addressed stims, so hear goes:

If you guys are taking stims, please realize it may very well increase the amplitude of the emotional roller coaster you are on. When "stimmed up" I can be both very depressed, and very PO'd - at the same time.

FWIW - I would suggest limiting as many variables as you can.
 
Beau said:
We've really not addressed stims, so hear goes:

If you guys are taking stims, please realize it may very well increase the amplitude of the emotional roller coaster you are on. When "stimmed up" I can be both very depressed, and very PO'd - at the same time.

FWIW - I would suggest limiting as many variables as you can.
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good quote :goodpost:
 
crunch have you ever treid 5-htp???
 
CRUNCH said:
I have, to see if it would help my insomnia at all. Don't recall noticing much. Is it something I would use with the Zoloft??
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no 5-htp is actually a precursor to serotonin....that should not be used with an ssri....neither should st. johns wort......they are considered homiopathic
 
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