Another Clomid / Low Hormones thread

[Spyplane]

So I piggy-backed on the other clomid thread and got some good replies. I will start a new thread with the replies quoted so I don't pollute the other thread any more.

My original post:

So I had bloodwork done and just got a Rx for clomid. Here's my numbers:

Protein, Total, Serum. 6.6 (6-8.5) * he said this was low and doesn't know why yet
Albumin, Serum.........4.9 (3.5-5.5)
A/G Ratio..................2.9 (1.1-2.5) * clearly high

Immunoglubulin G.......587 (700-1600)
Immunoglobulin M.......7 (40-230) * yep, 7

Test, Serum...................387 (348-1197)
Test, Free......................10.7 (8.7-25.1)
Estradiol, Sensitive..........13 (3-70)

Triiodothyronine, Free......3.0 (2.0-4.4)
T4, Free.........................1 .37 (0.82-1.77)
Dihydrotestosterone.........17
LH............................ .....2.9 (1.7-8.6) * he was concerned about this

FSH........................... ....3.0 (1.5-12.4)
Reverse T3......................19.7 (9.2-24.1)
Vitamin D........................31.4 (30-100)

My Rx was for Clomiphene (clomid) 50mg x 2 a day for 7 days
Blood test on 8th day and then 25mg each day for 4 weeks

Is this a typical Rx for trying to get the body to produce T before trying full TRT?


First reply:

Your GI tract is majorily compromised. I would not even focus on TRT till you get that straight.
You are most likely very toxic.
Dosage is why to high. I was on this amount wanted to commit suicide !!
There is no history which is crucial to dealing with these cases. New thread would be suggested.

Second reply:

Yes as matrix says, that is a mega dose, from all threads i've seen the doses like that may get you high TT, LH, FSH numbers but the side effects will cancel out all benefit. Here is a post from Dr John Crisler, one of the leading TRT specialists, he posted this yestrday on this forum as his approach to clomid dosing. Less really is more when it comes to clomid.


Here's how you do it:

Start at 12.5mgs Clomid per day. After 3 weeks, run these labs (which you ran before you started, BTW):

TT
LH
FSH
SHBG
E2 (sensitive only)

If you feel much better--the goal of therapy--you are all set. Even if your T levels don't look great; that would mean you happened to catch your new production level at a trough.

If you don't feel much better, have your LH and FSH levels risen substantially? If not, increase the dose to 25mgs. A couple weeks later, the same labs again. You can go to 37.5mgs, then 50mg per day if necessary. Notice we are employing 1/4 tab increases, for convenience.

If LH/FSH rose substantially, and T did not, and you still don't feel well, look to testicular failure as your issue.

Of note, some have gotten great results on only 12.5mgs every other day.

If your T rose nicely, but SHBG also shot up, this counteracts the benefit. The estrogen half of the SERM-class drug did that. Try some Danazol, 50mg per day, oral, to try to lower SHBG.

If E shot up, add anastrazole, starting at 0.25mg every other day, and increase as necessary. Remember, it takes several weeks for E and SHBG to restabilize (SHBG may lower with the E).

Using this protocol can help you avoid going on frank TRT. That would be a good thing.

Third reply:

This is not a major issue, but, your Vitamin D is way too low.
Take 1000 IUs per 35lbs of body weight, per day, just to maintain proper levels.
To get your D up to 80ish range, take 2000 IUs per 35lbs, for two months, then cut back to the 1000IU / 35lbs rate for a month
AND BLOOD TEST YOUR D again.

 

[Spyplane]

Your GI tract is majorily compromised. I would not even focus on TRT till you get that straight.
You are most likely very toxic.
Dosage is why to high. I was on this amount wanted to commit suicide !!
There is no history which is crucial to dealing with these cases. New thread would be suggested.

The Dr. said the same thing about my GI tract. Given that, what is the proper course of action? So I took the dose he set me up on and have felt fine. I took another blood test three days ago, so we'll see what happens.

To some of the other replies, I'm taking 4000IU's of Vitamin D a day (2kIU in morning / night). I have never taken steroids in the past. I was feeling pretty ****ty lately so I got some bloods taken which lead me down this path.

 

[sumradagnoth]

any history of ibs? food intolerances?

and also... i agree w.matrix dose too high.

 

[Spyplane]

Nope, I seem to have no problems eating anything. I tend to avoid white sugar wherever possible, but that's about it.

 

[The Matrix]

The Dr. said the same thing about my GI tract. Given that, what is the proper course of action? So I took the dose he set me up on and have felt fine. I took another blood test three days ago, so we'll see what happens.

To some of the other replies, I'm taking 4000IU's of Vitamin D a day (2kIU in morning / night). I have never taken steroids in the past. I was feeling pretty ****ty lately so I got some bloods taken which lead me down this path.

Need to isolate the imbalances with in the GI tract (stool, food allergie, ect) I do not have any history or possible underlying pathology to this case. Antibiotics is last resort. There are much better ways to approach this. Please identify the states which you have lived in past 10 years.

 

[Spyplane]

Need to isolate the imbalances with in the GI tract (stool, food allergie, ect) I do not have any history or possible underlying pathology to this case. Antibiotics is last resort. There are much better ways to approach this. Please identify the states which you have lived in past 10 years.

I'll be honest, when he mentioned "toxins in your body" as a reason for all of this I thought he was a quack, but now that I'm hearing it twice it is a different story.

I've lived all over, but the last 10 years have been California (San Diego) -> Colorado.

 

[The Matrix]

I'll be honest, when he mentioned "toxins in your body" as a reason for all of this I thought he was a quack, but now that I'm hearing it twice it is a different story.

I've lived all over, but the last 10 years have been California (San Diego) -> Colorado.

Define all over specific states or countries.
Yes people think I am a "quack", but I have a successful business from medical professionals referring their complex patients.
Most of the information I suggest is common sense when you tend to think about it. I can not tell you how many times what appears to be a medical enigma just turns out to be something simple which has been over analyzed.

 

[Spyplane]

Define all over specific states or countries.
Yes people think I am a "quack", but I have a successful business from medical professionals referring their complex patients.
Most of the information I suggest is common sense when you tend to think about it. I can not tell you how many times what appears to be a medical enigma just turns out to be something simple which has been over analyzed.

It is hard, because I think there are some quacks out there that use similar terminology and have no medical background, so when I hear 'toxin' or 'cleansing' I have a hesitation. I certainly think he knows what he's talking about as well as you, I just have to adjust my reactions. So "all over" is Japan, S. Korea, Hawaii, SC, FL, CA, VA, CO I think that's it.

 

[The Matrix]

It is hard, because I think there are some quacks out there that use similar terminology and have no medical background, so when I hear 'toxin' or 'cleansing' I have a hesitation. I certainly think he knows what he's talking about as well as you, I just have to adjust my reactions. So "all over" is Japan, S. Korea, Hawaii, SC, FL, CA, VA, CO I think that's it.

Ok now picture is starting to be more.clear...this is why you keep asking detailed questions in order.to.get to.root cause instead of.dealing with symptoms. This is how.medicine should.be modeled.

 

[Spyplane]

So just got my bloods after being on Clomid for couple of weeks, and the results were fairly interesting.

My LH went from 2.9 to 7.8, so my pituitary responded accordingly. Sweet.

BUT, in my Dr's words, the brain sent all the signals, but nobody was home, my Free and Serum Test didn't go up even a little.

So he gave me several options, try to boost again with HCG, or try going on a test cream to see if my symptoms (bad mood, low sex drive, etc.) at least go away. I'm going to think on it a bit.

 

[The Matrix]

So just got my bloods after being on Clomid for couple of weeks, and the results were fairly interesting.

My LH went from 2.9 to 7.8, so my pituitary responded accordingly. Sweet.

BUT, in my Dr's words, the brain sent all the signals, but nobody was home, my Free and Serum Test didn't go up even a little.

So he gave me several options, try to boost again with HCG, or try going on a test cream to see if my symptoms (bad mood, low sex drive, etc.) at least go away. I'm going to think on it a bit.

Hint: look at the second.messenger of.hormones cAMP..

 

[Spyplane]

Hint: look at the second.messenger of.hormones cAMP..

I'm not quick grok'ing that sentence, what am I looking for?

 

[sumradagnoth]

Hint: look at the second.messenger of.hormones cAMP..

so if cAMP were part of the issue, how would that be remedied? stuff like forskolin?

 

[The Matrix]

so if cAMP were part of the issue, how would that be remedied? stuff like forskolin?

Thats one way...I jumpstart HPTA I also come around through the IP3 pathway...

 

[Spyplane]

I think this ventured outside of my knowledge of hormones, so I'll have to do some reading. I downed my dosage of clomid and a few days later I had nasty side effects, so I stopped using it anyway.