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Ziyo

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@brundel how would you go about incorporating this into the ebook stack?
 

Stern3657

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Any concerns taking 3 capsules on hard workout days?
 
nick76

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I'm a believer. Almost done with my first bottle at 2 caps a day. Bench has gone up considerably, looking a bit fuller. Only side to report has been pretty frequent nightmares, could be linked to stress at my new job. Otherwise enjoying my run.
 
ValiantThor08

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Any noticeable difference/improvements at 3 caps a day?
I can't compare it to 2 caps since I never did 2 caps a day at the present formula. But what I can say is very noticeable improvements in my bench and leg press, very rapidly. Great sleep. Great appetite. Pumped look.
 
JDybya

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Going into week 6 and loving the strength increases and body comp changes, stacked with folli and vector. Been on vector for many months and thinking of switching to Growth Factor Xt. I’ve been sleeping pretty well but not as amazing as some with Andro. And no dreams. And I’m still feeling pretty beat up...even after a deload.

Only time I dream is when I’m on Growth Factor. So everyone talking about their great sleep and vivid dreams, got me thinking this might be a good stack for me to get that CNS recovery I need so bad.

Any thoughts?
 
brundel

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@brundel how would you go about incorporating this into the ebook stack?
Run it straight through with the vector and Follidrone.
8 weeks min.
 
brundel

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Going into week 6 and loving the strength increases and body comp changes, stacked with folli and vector. Been on vector for many months and thinking of switching to Growth Factor Xt. I’ve been sleeping pretty well but not as amazing as some with Andro. And no dreams. And I’m still feeling pretty beat up...even after a deload.

Only time I dream is when I’m on Growth Factor. So everyone talking about their great sleep and vivid dreams, got me thinking this might be a good stack for me to get that CNS recovery I need so bad.

Any thoughts?
If you feel beat up regularly there is likely a base issue.
Sounds like sleep is a problem and this can really Fu$% things up. Do you use alot of stims? If so slowly taper off or down to no more than 200mg before 3pm
Dont eat before bed. 2 hrs.
Have you ever had a sleep test done? maybe you have sleep apnea and need a cpap.
 

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I’m definitely more on edge than I am usually. However, I wonder if it’s just a feeling of higher test (I suspect that I’ve had low test most of my life). Libido is up, and I just want to solve problems and issues in my life rather than feeling emotional or complaining. If I do feel anxious, ashwganda does the job
 

BadgerNetics

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I’m definitely more on edge than I am usually. However, I wonder if it’s just a feeling of higher test (I suspect that I’ve had low test most of my life). Libido is up, and I just want to solve problems and issues in my life rather than feeling emotional or complaining. If I do feel anxious, ashwganda does the job
 

BadgerNetics

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My main prob is I can’t find anywhere to get a second bottle in Aus as they are selling out :(
 

BadgerNetics

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If I can’t source a second bottle, would it be worth switching to another BLR product for another 4 wks?
 
ValiantThor08

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If I can’t source a second bottle, would it be worth switching to another BLR product for another 4 wks?

The BLR website should have some in stock soon as well.
 

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OK guys - I very well may end up just running my first log in a separate thread to avoid clutter, but I am two weeks and two days in now. I don't know if I'm just a hyper responder to this or what, but I am down 5lb of bodyweight (in a cut) but strength continues to increase, sleep is better than it's been in a long time, and more than that, I think the GH increase helped me heal some nagging tendonitis that had been plaguing me for months in my elbow (this was the most surprising to me to be honest - was not expecting it). I can tell my test levels are likely on the rise as well given libido boost and just more overall sensitivity downstairs. The first 1-1.5 weeks I noticed some increased aggression that was a bit out of character for me but that seems to have evened out at this point. I'll be running this for at LEAST 3 months (2 caps/day) and have done my own research on these ingredients as well so am comfortable taking them in the dosage amounts....I am still slightly concerned about suppression only because this truly feels like I am "on" something - it's different than when I ran Turk and to be honest a bit more impressive because this seems to have an almost immediate leaning out effect for me....muscle bellies fuller while weight drops, and it's ALL fat weight that I am losing too given how rapidly my waist is shrinking. Anyway, I'll continue to post and probably end up posting in a separate thread of my own to avoid clutter. I still maintain that this has been like a "cheat code" for cutting - can't wait to run this again in the Fall/Winter for a bulk.
 
B1LL1ST1C

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So a little update after 6 full weeks. Last few workouts have been decent but not with the same intensity and strength that I was quickly becoming use to. I’ve actually been feeling a bit lethargic for the first time since starting my run. However I do think this is mostly due to
my dieting and perhaps insufficient carb intake. Received lab results the other day and am a little surprised to be honest. Last time I had lab work done was is October. Some but not all of the same tests were done. This is because the labs in October were from my doctor’s office and these newer labs I ordered myself online. Therefore only certain options were available for the male hormone panel. Anyways I’ve listed all hormone related results below to compare.

October Labs:
Total Test: 450 ng/dL
Free Test: 90.29 pg/mL
SHBG: 28 nmol/L

Last Weeks Labs:
Total Test: 366 ng/dL
Estrogen: 16pg/mL
SHBG: 33 nmol/L
Free Androgen Index: 38.5

So obviously Total Test is down which obviosuly isn’t ideal since considering it wasn’t high to begin with. Estrogen is a little on the low end but in range. SHGB is normal which leads me to believe that Free Test may be normal still as well. Unfortunately I was not able to test for Free Test using this lab. Although Total Test is down and not ideal, I don’t necessarily attribute this to Androgen. My diet has been fairly consistent being below maintenance and with a lower carb intake. Plus I’ve been working out most days of the week. So perhaps I could be running myself down a bit and a couple days or weeks of maintenance cals may serve me well. On the flip side, even if Androgen had contributed to this decline, it’s not as if I’ve become fully suppressed like with an unnatural SARM. Regardless I think I’ll be pausing for a bit soon to try and get my natural levels back up into a more desirable range. Still think this is a fantastic product and would be interested to see how results compare on a bulk.
 
ValiantThor08

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So a little update after 6 full weeks. Last few workouts have been decent but not with the same intensity and strength that I was quickly becoming use to. I’ve actually been feeling a bit lethargic for the first time since starting my run. However I do think this is mostly due to
my dieting and perhaps insufficient carb intake. Received lab results the other day and am a little surprised to be honest. Last time I had lab work done was is October. Some but not all of the same tests were done. This is because the labs in October were from my doctor’s office and these newer labs I ordered myself online. Therefore only certain options were available for the male hormone panel. Anyways I’ve listed all hormone related results below to compare.

October Labs:
Total Test: 450 ng/dL
Free Test: 90.29 pg/mL
SHBG: 28 nmol/L

Last Weeks Labs:
Total Test: 366 ng/dL
Estrogen: 16pg/mL
SHBG: 33 nmol/L
Free Androgen Index: 38.5

So obviously Total Test is down which obviosuly isn’t ideal since considering it wasn’t high to begin with. Estrogen is a little on the low end but in range. SHGB is normal which leads me to believe that Free Test may be normal still as well. Unfortunately I was not able to test for Free Test using this lab. Although Total Test is down and not ideal, I don’t necessarily attribute this to Androgen. My diet has been fairly consistent being below maintenance and with a lower carb intake. Plus I’ve been working out most days of the week. So perhaps I could be running myself down a bit and a couple days or weeks of maintenance cals may serve me well. On the flip side, even if Androgen had contributed to this decline, it’s not as if I’ve become fully suppressed like with an unnatural SARM. Regardless I think I’ll be pausing for a bit soon to try and get my natural levels back up into a more desirable range. Still think this is a fantastic product and would be interested to see how results compare on a bulk.
Constant training combined with caloric deficit is most likely the reason total test is lower.
 

Nologic1986

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So a little update after 6 full weeks. Last few workouts have been decent but not with the same intensity and strength that I was quickly becoming use to. I’ve actually been feeling a bit lethargic for the first time since starting my run. However I do think this is mostly due to
my dieting and perhaps insufficient carb intake. Received lab results the other day and am a little surprised to be honest. Last time I had lab work done was is October. Some but not all of the same tests were done. This is because the labs in October were from my doctor’s office and these newer labs I ordered myself online. Therefore only certain options were available for the male hormone panel. Anyways I’ve listed all hormone related results below to compare.

October Labs:
Total Test: 450 ng/dL
Free Test: 90.29 pg/mL
SHBG: 28 nmol/L

Last Weeks Labs:
Total Test: 366 ng/dL
Estrogen: 16pg/mL
SHBG: 33 nmol/L
Free Androgen Index: 38.5

So obviously Total Test is down which obviosuly isn’t ideal since considering it wasn’t high to begin with. Estrogen is a little on the low end but in range. SHGB is normal which leads me to believe that Free Test may be normal still as well. Unfortunately I was not able to test for Free Test using this lab. Although Total Test is down and not ideal, I don’t necessarily attribute this to Androgen. My diet has been fairly consistent being below maintenance and with a lower carb intake. Plus I’ve been working out most days of the week. So perhaps I could be running myself down a bit and a couple days or weeks of maintenance cals may serve me well. On the flip side, even if Androgen had contributed to this decline, it’s not as if I’ve become fully suppressed like with an unnatural SARM. Regardless I think I’ll be pausing for a bit soon to try and get my natural levels back up into a more desirable range. Still think this is a fantastic product and would be interested to see how results compare on a bulk.
I'll be curious to hear @brundel 's take on this. When I am eating in a deficit and ESPECIALLY with reduced carb intake, I can state that at least for myself, unequivocally, my test levels decline. There's some interesting academic studies out there that back that up as well (I've attached one below), which is why with this cut I am actually keeping carbs higher than normal, which is what may be likely helping me alongside Androgin compared to prior cuts of mine. You might actually want to try shifting your macros around a bit @B1LL1ST1C ....we are all different at the end of the day, but I know for myself, carbs help me sleep better (when timed later in the day) and also help me feel less on edge during a cut....I've kept my protein at about 0.6-0.7g/lb of bodyweight and have noticed a major difference in how I felt versus when I was religiously closer to 1g/lb (and this was pre-Androgin, so factor Androgin out of the equation)....just some food for thought re test levels and macros.

 
B1LL1ST1C

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Constant training combined with caloric deficit is most likely the reason total test is lower.
This is my guess as well. Going to increase my carb intake and will likely hover around maintenance for a week or two before continuing with my cut.
 
B1LL1ST1C

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I'll be curious to hear @brundel 's take on this. When I am eating in a deficit and ESPECIALLY with reduced carb intake, I can state that at least for myself, unequivocally, my test levels decline. There's some interesting academic studies out there that back that up as well (I've attached one below), which is why with this cut I am actually keeping carbs higher than normal, which is what may be likely helping me alongside Androgin compared to prior cuts of mine. You might actually want to try shifting your macros around a bit @B1LL1ST1C ....we are all different at the end of the day, but I know for myself, carbs help me sleep better (when timed later in the day) and also help me feel less on edge during a cut....I've kept my protein at about 0.6-0.7g/lb of bodyweight and have noticed a major difference in how I felt versus when I was religiously closer to 1g/lb (and this was pre-Androgin, so factor Androgin out of the equation)....just some food for thought re test levels and macros.

Thanks and completely agree with everything you mentioned. Definitely going to shift things around a bit and increase overall carb intake. Still continuing to learn more about proper dieting and what works for me. I’ll be continuing to change things around and get new labs periodically so I can see whats working and what doesn’t. These numbers look more like a diet related decline in my opinion and not the kind you would see due to heavy suppression of any sort.
 
ValiantThor08

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Thanks and completely agree with everything you mentioned. Definitely going to shift things around a bit and increase overall carb intake. Still continuing to learn more about proper dieting and what works for me. I’ll be continuing to change things around and get new labs periodically so I can see whats working and what doesn’t. These numbers look more like a diet related decline in my opinion and not the kind you would see due to heavy suppression of any sort.
If you are not taking ashwaghanda, get some Shoden ashwaghanda, and it will lower your cortisol, and consequently help raise test levels. I use 240mg Shoden daily, split in two doses, and it's very positive and noticable.
 
B1LL1ST1C

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If you are not taking ashwaghanda, get some Shoden ashwaghanda, and it will lower your cortisol, and consequently help raise test levels. I use 240mg Shoden daily, split in two doses, and it's very positive and noticable.
Ashwaghanda is legit but left me feeling like a zombie even after just 300mg of KSM-66. Seemed to work too well haha. Never tried lessening the dose though. How does Shoden compare?
 
brundel

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What is known and what is not known about the toxicity of these compounds at these dosages ?
I dont see any indication that we should expect toxicity.
IN fact to the contrary we expect Androgin to be cardio, liver and brain protective.
 
brundel

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My main prob is I can’t find anywhere to get a second bottle in Aus as they are selling out :(
Stock is out everywhere but we expect more this week.
 
brundel

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So a little update after 6 full weeks. Last few workouts have been decent but not with the same intensity and strength that I was quickly becoming use to. I’ve actually been feeling a bit lethargic for the first time since starting my run. However I do think this is mostly due to
my dieting and perhaps insufficient carb intake. Received lab results the other day and am a little surprised to be honest. Last time I had lab work done was is October. Some but not all of the same tests were done. This is because the labs in October were from my doctor’s office and these newer labs I ordered myself online. Therefore only certain options were available for the male hormone panel. Anyways I’ve listed all hormone related results below to compare.

October Labs:
Total Test: 450 ng/dL
Free Test: 90.29 pg/mL
SHBG: 28 nmol/L

Last Weeks Labs:
Total Test: 366 ng/dL
Estrogen: 16pg/mL
SHBG: 33 nmol/L
Free Androgen Index: 38.5

So obviously Total Test is down which obviosuly isn’t ideal since considering it wasn’t high to begin with. Estrogen is a little on the low end but in range. SHGB is normal which leads me to believe that Free Test may be normal still as well. Unfortunately I was not able to test for Free Test using this lab. Although Total Test is down and not ideal, I don’t necessarily attribute this to Androgen. My diet has been fairly consistent being below maintenance and with a lower carb intake. Plus I’ve been working out most days of the week. So perhaps I could be running myself down a bit and a couple days or weeks of maintenance cals may serve me well. On the flip side, even if Androgen had contributed to this decline, it’s not as if I’ve become fully suppressed like with an unnatural SARM. Regardless I think I’ll be pausing for a bit soon to try and get my natural levels back up into a more desirable range. Still think this is a fantastic product and would be interested to see how results compare on a bulk.
For me this is a win.
Because it shows that Androgin is not majorly suppressive in spit of being majorly anabolic. Unless you are on TRT we would expect your levels to fluctuate under normal circumstances. Maybe Androgin played a role, maybe not but either way its not a massive difference.
On a side note it looks like you need TRT man. I dont know if you have used aas in the past but even 450 isnt good.
I feel absolutely terrible with my levels this low and I dont doubt you do as well.
Might want to talk to an endocrinologist. Most will put you on TRT with the 366 labs and a good one will at 450.
 
B1LL1ST1C

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For me this is a win.
Because it shows that Androgin is not majorly suppressive in spit of being majorly anabolic. Unless you are on TRT we would expect your levels to fluctuate under normal circumstances. Maybe Androgin played a role, maybe not but either way its not a massive difference.
On a side note it looks like you need TRT man. I dont know if you have used aas in the past but even 450 isnt good.
I feel absolutely terrible with my levels this low and I dont doubt you do as well.
Might want to talk to an endocrinologist. Most will put you on TRT with the 366 labs and a good one will at 450.
Thanks and will definitely consider looking further into this. I actually have been for some time. Never used AAS. Previous years labs were only marginally better in October of 2019. Total test was 481. Think I might give one last shot at getting levels up naturally via proper food intake and more health focused supplementation. I’ve definitely not had the energy I once did for some time now. Dipping into the 300’s recently made this much more apparent because the lethargy was real.
 
ValiantThor08

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Ashwaghanda is legit but left me feeling like a zombie even after just 300mg of KSM-66. Seemed to work too well haha. Never tried lessening the dose though. How does Shoden compare?
Shoden has me clear headed and energetic during the day, and at bed time I can fall asleep very easily. Doesn't make me drowsy.
 
B1LL1ST1C

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Shoden has me clear headed and energetic during the day, and at bed time I can fall asleep very easily. Doesn't make me drowsy.
Been reading a lot about it since you mentioned it. I sort of wrote off Ash since KSM made me feel so tired. Have you tried other forms of Ash to compare and have any made you feel lethargic in comparison?
 
3clipseGT

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So a little update after 6 full weeks. Last few workouts have been decent but not with the same intensity and strength that I was quickly becoming use to. I’ve actually been feeling a bit lethargic for the first time since starting my run. However I do think this is mostly due to
my dieting and perhaps insufficient carb intake. Received lab results the other day and am a little surprised to be honest. Last time I had lab work done was is October. Some but not all of the same tests were done. This is because the labs in October were from my doctor’s office and these newer labs I ordered myself online. Therefore only certain options were available for the male hormone panel. Anyways I’ve listed all hormone related results below to compare.

October Labs:
Total Test: 450 ng/dL
Free Test: 90.29 pg/mL
SHBG: 28 nmol/L

Last Weeks Labs:
Total Test: 366 ng/dL
Estrogen: 16pg/mL
SHBG: 33 nmol/L
Free Androgen Index: 38.5

So obviously Total Test is down which obviosuly isn’t ideal since considering it wasn’t high to begin with. Estrogen is a little on the low end but in range. SHGB is normal which leads me to believe that Free Test may be normal still as well. Unfortunately I was not able to test for Free Test using this lab. Although Total Test is down and not ideal, I don’t necessarily attribute this to Androgen. My diet has been fairly consistent being below maintenance and with a lower carb intake. Plus I’ve been working out most days of the week. So perhaps I could be running myself down a bit and a couple days or weeks of maintenance cals may serve me well. On the flip side, even if Androgen had contributed to this decline, it’s not as if I’ve become fully suppressed like with an unnatural SARM. Regardless I think I’ll be pausing for a bit soon to try and get my natural levels back up into a more desirable range. Still think this is a fantastic product and would be interested to see how results compare on a bulk.
Lowered cals, low carbs and hard training can definitely lead to lowered test levels.

Whenever I do a diet, once I start to get real low calorie wise I always implement a “diet break” of a week or two where I go back to maintenance and reasses. If you have questions or need some assistance don’t hesitate to send me a PM.
 
ValiantThor08

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Been reading a lot about it since you mentioned it. I sort of wrote off Ash since KSM made me feel so tired. Have you tried other forms of Ash to compare and have any made you feel lethargic in comparison?
I've used KSM, Sensoril, a non extract, and Shoden. KSM I don't really notice much. Sensoril feels more relaxing. Shoden, in bed you are relaxed, but when you are awake and working, you are alert. At least in my experience.
 
B1LL1ST1C

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I've used KSM, Sensoril, a non extract, and Shoden. KSM I don't really notice much. Sensoril feels more relaxing. Shoden, in bed you are relaxed, but when you are awake and working, you are alert. At least in my experience.
Awesome to hear that. I’m going to give it a try. Plus any increase in testosterone would be welcomed at this point. Just ordered a bottle of Shoden to try out. Started my business a few years back which certainly has it’s drawbacks in the stress department. Keeping cortisol at bay without crushing it would be nice.
 
ValiantThor08

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Awesome to hear that. I’m going to give it a try. Plus any increase in testosterone would be welcomed at this point. Just ordered a bottle of Shoden to try out. Started my business a few years back which certainly has it’s drawbacks in the stress department. Keeping cortisol at bay without crushing it would be nice.
Just start off at 120mg after your dinner. If you feel good at that dose, bump it up to another 120mg AM.
 
Malbranque

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Thor's always bang on with the advice on here, so on the back of that, I've just ordered some Shoden from Nootropics Depot, myself.
I've been well out of sorts lately, so hoping this helps me iron out a few sleeping and stress issues.
I'm going to start Androgin (along with the new Massacr3 formula, I've had to hand for a few months) in a couple of weeks, so based on the feedback and info here, I'm hoping it - along with the Shoden - serves me well for getting my zzz's back into a decent pattern.
 
ValiantThor08

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Thor's always bang on with the advice on here, so on the back of that, I've just ordered some Shoden from Nootropics Depot, myself.
I've been well out of sorts lately, so hoping this helps me iron out a few sleeping and stress issues.
I'm going to start Androgin (along with the new Massacr3 formula, I've had to hand for a few months) in a couple of weeks, so based on the feedback and info here, I'm hoping it - along with the Shoden - serves me well for getting my zzz's back into a decent pattern.
Shoden plus Androgin has consistently given me great sleep. Easier to fall asleep, and gave less interruptions.
 
Boonfly8

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That is insanely high. And it’s the free test that matters not total
 
Boonfly8

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Those are my bloods during pct after 1andro run this year. Somehow our reference ranges are very far
 
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