ANDROGIN new Black lion Research ANABOLIC is here.

[ironkill]

Any lethargy during the daytime?

Day 4, no signs of lethargy

 

[mase1]

That's my main concern, vector made me tired. Possibly did not eat enough food, so partially me to blame.

 

[TommyTuffGuy]

Any lethargy during the daytime?

Not noticing any. I'm VERY sensitive to that type of thing as well.
If I dose KSM-66 at 600mg in one pop, I'm toast. I can handle M-Test at 300mg 2x per day tho.

I do find it's EASY to get to sleep when I want to. But it's not literally 'making me' tired.

 

[ELROCK]

Any lethargy during the daytime?

No lethargy during the day. I have been waking up feeling refreshed despite having just lost an hour of sleep from daylight savings.

 

[mad dog]

Anyone does pre workout?

 

[ELROCK]

Anyone does pre workout?

Yes, I take 1 cap first thing when I wake up and I workout in the mornings.

 

[ELROCK]

Anyone does pre workout?

Yes, I take 1 cap first thing when I wake up and I workout in the mornings.

 

[chainsaw]

Anyone does pre workout?

i take one 1st thing in morning, wait an hour to eat. take 2nd one at 2pm empty stomach and workout at 3pm

 

[cdnbum88]

I have had some tiredness during the day that I didn't before starting. Sleeps are solid as many are noting. Get up once as per usual as I am old .
I take one with my morning pre of protein water and BCAA and then second dose inbetween breakfast shake after workout and before lunch, have that window I keep for it and try not to eat.

 

[Coriandru]

any results ? strenght gains ?

 

[Coriandru]

That's my main concern, vector made me tired. Possibly did not eat enough food, so partially me to blame.

can you please tell me if you have any gains with this Androgin ?

 

[mase1]

can you please tell me if you have any gains with this Androgin ?

Not on it.

 

[Coriandru]

Not on it.

thank you!

 

[ironkill]

any results ? strenght gains ?

It's still early. Most have been using less than 2 weeks at this point. I'd say it'll take atleast a month to see how it truly shines

 

[TommyTuffGuy]

It's definitely not sawdust. That's for sure.
Sleep is amazing.
Hunger is up.
Strength seems up.
For the record, I am on BMP and M-Test, but have been for a year or more. The BMP has completely 'leveled off' my recomposition phase and I just 'stay' where I'm at with it. That being said, adding the Androgin for the past 2 weeks I am seeing a slight bit more of recomp addition. I have not changed my diet/workout planning whatsoever. I fast until noon (16hours) and begin again at 8pm.

 

[BCseacow83]

the more i look for dosing to take advantage of GH spiking benefit of Androgin, i just get frustrated. I think i will just not worry about the GH spike aspect, because and empty stomach twice a day is near impossible when you are eating 6 times a day. From what i have read so far its best on empty stomach which means insulin is no longer present, so anywhere from 1 hour to 1 hour and 30 minutes after a meal. Then if you dose, no more eating for another 1 hour. That is hard to make happen twice per day.

There was a gentlemen over at PM that did extensive blood tests( alpha something was his screen name) with various peptide combinations including ghrp/mod with and without food. There was basically no difference. I think the whole no food with peps stems from the idea that in a fed state our bodies are not going to release ghrelin and thus GH but this really does not matter if the ghrp is coming from an external source. Just a theory but it makes logical sense.

So yes in the presence of food the body is not going to pulse GH but if we send the signal via exogenous compound it does not seem to matter.

 

[brundel]

There was a gentlemen over at PM that did extensive blood tests( alpha something was his screen name) with various peptide combinations including ghrp/mod with and without food. There was basically no difference. I think the whole no food with peps stems from the idea that in a fed state our bodies are not going to release ghrelin and thus GH but this really does not matter if the ghrp is coming from an external source. Just a theory but it makes logical sense.

So yes in the presence of food the body is not going to pulse GH but if we send the signal via exogenous compound it does not seem to matter.

We do this because insulin rises after a meal and insulin release blocks growth hormone release.

Insulin inhibits growth hormone signaling via the growth hormone receptor/JAK2/STAT5B pathway - PubMed

Insulin is important for maintaining the responsiveness of the liver to growth hormone (GH). Insulin deficiency results in a decrease in liver GH receptor (GHR) expression, which can be reversed by insulin administration. In osteoblasts, continuous insulin treatment decreases the fraction of...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[brundel]

Also unless he posted the labs I call BS

 

[BCseacow83]

Also unless he posted the labs I call BS

He absolutely posted labs. I will PM you the link as the testing he performed was very extensive. The above reference does not discuss actual GH release so much as growth hormone receptor expression in the liver. I want to be clear I am NOT saying eating and insulin do affect GH release. I AM saying it matters far less when the GH stimulus is from an outside source and not endogenous in nature. PM coming Brundel.

I am driving at this as you know there will be some individuals who will think unless they take Androgin on an empty stomach they will be cheating themselves. I am trying to support the idea that taking it may prove more important than the timing in relation to feedings.

 

[BCseacow83]

I want to add that regardless of whether or not release is affected what happens after the release will be different in a fed vs non-fed state. If fat loss is the goal, say pre-morning cardio, then it would better serve the goal if fasted when the GH hits.

 

[brundel]

He absolutely posted labs. I will PM you the link as the testing he performed was very extensive. The above reference does not discuss actual GH release so much as growth hormone receptor expression in the liver. I want to be clear I am NOT saying eating and insulin do affect GH release. I AM saying it matters far less when the GH stimulus is from an outside source and not endogenous in nature. PM coming Brundel.

I am driving at this as you know there will be some individuals who will think unless they take Androgin on an empty stomach they will be cheating themselves. I am trying to support the idea that taking it may prove more important than the timing in relation to feedings.

A GHRP is causing endogenous GH release, it isnt exogenous growth hormone. If the GH is being released from the body then how is it effected less by insulin?

 

[BCseacow83]

In the presence of insulin/food the body would not send the signal to produce GH but with a GHRP the "signal" is exogenous. When I get home I will dig through that thread as it is 60 pages long but it was his findings, via lab work, that being fed had little effect on GH release in response to an exogenous GHRP/GHRH combo.

Now if we are looking for the lipolytic effects of GH I will completely agree fasted is best. I avoided food for years with GHRP's but have noticed no difference when I loosened up a bit with that protocol. If being in a fed state would block GH release from GHRP's would we not expect to see little to no results from a long acting secretagogue like MK677?

Do I think the body will initiate and release GH 100% by itself in the presence of food/insulin, no. Do I think one could take a shot of slin or eat a meal and 30 mins later a ghrp and expect GH release? yes.

 

[brundel]

Lets see if we can prove this either way.
If you have time see if you can find any studies or data points to support an equal effect on GH release with or without food. To me this cant be anecdotal data because we cant control all the variables. No study would be valid if based solely on anecdotal data. I think these ideas originated from DatbTrue back in the day. I dont have a direct way of contacting him these days so tis hard to ask him his sources.

We do know that insulin suppresses growth hormone.

Insulin suppresses growth hormone secretion by rat pituitary cells.

The effects of insulin on basal and hydrocortisone-induced growth hormone (GH) secretion were studied in rat pituitary tumor cells (GH3). Cells were grown in monolayer culture and exposed to exogenously added insulin for up to 8 d. Basal GH secretion ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

This is demonstrably true.

Part of the reason we think its best to keep insulin as low as possible with water based peptides particularly is their half lives are in the several min range. GHRP6 is about 2-7 min half life. So it makes sense to allow it to cause the greatest rise possible in the absence of insulin and why we say wait 15 to 20 min.

But others like ibutamoren have a 6hr half life so the whole idea is moot.
I think it depends on the compound and its half life right?

But with Androgin we also have to take into account how long will it take to become active in the bloodstream?
Echinacoside, the primary GHRP analogue in androgin has a 4.5hr halflife ,plus at least 4 of the others, acteoside, tubuloside as well as a few of the ginsenosides are GHRP analogues that mimic ghrelin.
so the good news is no matter what you do your gonna get major GH release over time with androgin.

 

[BeardedBreast]

Diminishing benefits on more than 2 caps? I'm down to a very lean 190, so not a heavy hitter anymore, but still train 15+ hrs/wk

 

[brundel]

Diminishing benefits on more than 2 caps? I'm down to a very lean 190, so not a heavy hitter anymore, but still train 15+ hrs/wk

We hahve no reason to believe effects will be less with more.
My guess is itll be stronger.

 

[Frenzy382]

just put my order in of a couple of bottles of Androgin...still not available in UK, so ordered direct from BLR.

Was going to run this solo, but just noticed I have a tub of Vector on the shelf. Not that i'm commited to stacking at all, but it got me thinking....

What would you expect from running a Androgin/Vector stack?

thnx

 

[ValiantThor08]

just put my order in of a couple of bottles of Androgin...still not available in UK, so ordered direct from BLR.

Was going to run this solo, but just noticed I have a tub of Vector on the shelf. Not that i'm commited to stacking at all, but it got me thinking....

What would you expect from running a Androgin/Vector stack?

thnx

I would expect great strength and lean mass gains. They both work differently. I think it's a fantastic stack.

 

[MAGICBUMM328]

So I grabbed up 2 bottles of Androgin & Follidrone and will be finishing them up near the end of the month, how long should I wait before I try a SARM Cycle? I've been looking at going that route and making even better gains, would 4 weeks off be sufficient?

 

[ValiantThor08]

So I grabbed up 2 bottles of Androgin & Follidrone and will be finishing them up near the end of the month, how long should I wait before I try a SARM Cycle? I've been looking at going that route and making even better gains, would 4 weeks off be sufficient?

Since Androgin and Follidrone are not hormonal, or suppressive, you could begin a SARM immediately after finishing the natural stack. Just make sure you have a PCT, support supplements, nutrition, and training plan all in line.

 

[rowz4broz]

Is there any feedback on this yet?

 

[ValiantThor08]

Is there any feedback on this yet?

Tagged you in the other thread where there is some feedback

 

[brundel]

There is alot of feedback via FB and IG although it is relatively thin here. Because the forums are slow.
Ill post some of the responses when I get a chance.

 

[JawnJohnson50]

Almost done week 2 of Androgin - I can't get over how good my sleep has been. Insanely vivid dreams from someone who was struggling with sleep regularly. Excited/hopeful for the strength and size gains to come over the next 6 weeks

 

[Frenzy382]

I never considered BMP a "muscle builder", it's more of a overall health recomp type product...

Adding this to the BMP stack tho could potentially be earth shattering.

i've got 2 bottles of BMP lying about...worth doing a stack here, or keep to an Androgin solo run?

 

[ValiantThor08]

i've got 2 bottles of BMP lying about...worth doing a stack here, or keep to an Androgin solo run?

Would be perfectly fine to stack

 

[TommyTuffGuy]

i've got 2 bottles of BMP lying about...worth doing a stack here, or keep to an Androgin solo run?

I don't see why not. But if you're running Androgin the first time might be a good idea to see the effects solo first.

 

[brundel]

Can certainly stack them.

 

[Frenzy382]

I don't see why not. But if you're running Androgin the first time might be a good idea to see the effects solo first.

i hate it when common sense kicks in . ok...i'd better hold off. I need to remove the temptation...

 

[anthon88]

Can certainly stack them.

I had great results doing that. Ran Andro for a month solo first to get a feel for it. I’m on a serious cut too, definitely kept my muscle and may have even gained some in the process. Awesome combo!

 

[Power-Lift]

I would expect great strength and lean mass gains. They both work differently. I think it's a fantastic stack.

Any logs, proof?

 

[brundel]

Any logs, proof?

There are dozens in the Androgin FAQ thread.

ANDROGIN product FAQ NEW BLR PRODUCT!!! - AnabolicMinds.com

I'm two weeks deep into an Androgin, Dermacrine and Letrone run and I have to say, my sleep - which has been frustratingly light and broken for many a moon - has been outrageously deep ***touches wood frantically***. Have a poxy headcold at the moment, and normally when that happens I'm awake...

anabolicminds.com

There are also about a dozen or more studies validating the ingredients.

Here is the most recent report in that thread-
Iv read every thread about Androgin there is and am currently moving on to bottle 3. I have 6 bottles after that as I fell in love just after bottle number one! Iv had amazing sleep and the dreams have been insanely vivid, which is exciting to me as I haven’t dreamt in years!
but as for what they claim Androgin to do, it’s the truth in my case. I may just be one who responds well to it, but the results after two bottles have been exciting for me as I’m a relatively small guy.
Beginning Androgin I was 132lbs. (5’7)
After bottle two I am at 139.5lbs.
Strength gains are awesome as I increase reps and weight with each and every work. (6 day split)
Iv never filled out my shirts like this before lmao
I just wanted to comment and say thanks for the awesome product!

So just wanted to post an update - I haven’t been logging this or anything but just some notes from my experience now that I am 2 bottles in and planning to run at least 3 more....
Sleep has been tremendous - this has been a theme since day 1. I struggle with sleep (falling asleep and sleeping deeply, frequent wake ups, etc.) and this has helped enormously with that. The vivid dreams are a plus
Strength - I am not extremely experienced so probably have some continued newbie gains (only a year or two into training) but I am constantly improving every week in either reps or weight. This is new.
Muscle growth - I am cutting and looking to get down to 8% bodyfat. This has allowed me to do so with ease (still 7 more weeks to go before I’m at 8%) and I don’t even feel like I’m cutting. Over the last 9 weeks, I am down 11 lbs in fat and have gained about 1.5 lbs of lean tissue. I could not be any happier with that.
All in all, I’m not usually one for supplements, but this has really got my attention and I want to run it for a fair bit longer than I had originally intended. One thing I am noticing slightly is that some of the effects I felt so strongly at the beginning have diminished (libido, etc) but it could also be because I am sub 12% bodyfat now and in a deficit where hormones take a hit, so inconclusive. Either way, I couldn’t be happier.

 

[Oswizle]

I just recently started bottle #5 and it’s from the new batch … the pills in the first 4 botttles were all orange and had a citrus flavor to them… the new pills are black and red without the citrus flavor… just curious what the differences were between the 2 batches

 

[mase1]

Results so far up to this point?

 

[ironkill]

I just recently started bottle #5 and it’s from the new batch … the pills in the first 4 botttles were all orange and had a citrus flavor to them… the new pills are black and red without the citrus flavor… just curious what the differences were between the 2 batches

No diff, I remember brundel saying there was a shortage or backlog on the normal capsules so he used those orange ones in the original batch to avoid delays in production

 

[Oswizle]

Ive gained 7 lbs so far ... I like the double dosing better ... getting the full pump feeling...endurance in the weight room .... my shoulders feel/look like Dwight Howards .... sleep also is deep ....just feeling better overall and less stressed out from things that normally get me upset/anxiety

 

[mase1]

At double dose not too sure it's worth it.

 

[brundel]

Yah major cap shortage. Capsule colors will vary for the time being.

 

[brundel]

At double dose not too sure it's worth it.

You certainly dont need to double dose it just because someone else did.
The pages of positive reports are coming from regular dosing protocol.

 

[Kronic]

Ive gained 7 lbs so far ... I like the double dosing better ... getting the full pump feeling...endurance in the weight room .... my shoulders feel/look like Dwight Howards .... sleep also is deep ....just feeling better overall and less stressed out from things that normally get me upset/anxiety

double dose gang. 2 in the morning when I wake up I wanna try 3

 

[ValiantThor08]

Ive gained 7 lbs so far ... I like the double dosing better ... getting the full pump feeling...endurance in the weight room .... my shoulders feel/look like Dwight Howards .... sleep also is deep ....just feeling better overall and less stressed out from things that normally get me upset/anxiety

Good on you. How much of the seven would you believe to be lean mass?