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ANABOLIC STEROID USAGE AND THYROID SUPPRESSION-article by PATRICK ARNOLD

jbryand101b said:
Have you ran tren with out the t3?
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the first time yes, and interestingly i got fat. this time i used t3 for about 2 weeks, then stopped and used tren for 4 more weeks. didnt get fat.
i think its not because of t3 though but the first time i used no testosterone with the tren and testosterone burns fat on me like crazy.

i know this is not very conclusive and i am uncertain wether the t3 had any positive benefit.
 
redman24 said:
the first time yes, and interestingly i got fat. this time i used t3 for about 2 weeks, then stopped and used tren for 4 more weeks. didnt get fat.
i think its not because of t3 though but the first time i used no testosterone with the tren and testosterone burns fat on me like crazy.

i know this is not very conclusive and i am uncertain wether the t3 had any positive benefit.
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Interesting nonetheless.
Thanks!!
 
Seems very strange you got "fat" on tren only......I mean you have to really have a sluggish, endomorphic metabolism to accrue appreciable fat on tren? My friend did this when he combined 1500 mg of 4ad alongside tren + lots of fatty foods.

Then on tren alone --- he ate loaves of french bread + burgers every night with me and we both got bigger and more peeled.

interesting result you had there....

-Matt
 
Jbry,

I am surprised you do not have any closer friends that share your same interest in lifting and improving??? I would think you would have a friend who is dedicated and down to take their physique to the next level with hormones --(injectables)

Perhaps that guy you speak of will become friendly with you----just dont be that douche that bugs him with "hey bro, you know where I can....."

-Matt
 
well, actually tren is simply not a "dry" substance. this is a misconception born from strong glycogen anabolism making people look bigger and therefore feeling tighter. compared to dht derivatives tren is quite wet. it is also, despite common belief, a weakly androgenic steroid similar to nandrolone.
my experience is that nothing burns fat better than testosterone. i cannot comprehend how people get fat on it. maybe if you let estrogen get out of hand. on testosterone i cannot possibly ever get above 10% bf, not even if i drank pure oil. also, i cannot gain an ounce, even on 5000calories.

my experience is that without testosterone metabolism is much slower, no matter what so called cutting drug is used, even masteron.
 
How the fukc can you say tren is a weak anabolic when it's aa ratio is 5x as strong as test- I think your talking out f your ass and despite not being shy derived it is very dry
 
not weak anabolic, weakly androgenic, as has been scientifically proven. (if you really want i can try to find the study)
i never talk out of my ass btw, and no tren is not dry, but oxymetholone is bone dry :-)

now are people gonna tell my im insane? i am expecting it :-p
 
redman24 said:
well, actually tren is simply not a "dry" substance. this is a misconception born from strong glycogen anabolism making people look bigger and therefore feeling tighter. compared to dht derivatives tren is quite wet. it is also, despite common belief, a weakly androgenic steroid similar to nandrolone.
my experience is that nothing burns fat better than testosterone. i cannot comprehend how people get fat on it. maybe if you let estrogen get out of hand. on testosterone i cannot possibly ever get above 10% bf, not even if i drank pure oil. also, i cannot gain an ounce, even on 5000calories.

my experience is that without testosterone metabolism is much slower, no matter what so called cutting drug is used, even masteron.
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From my experience and seeing other morph before my eyes --- this does not add up. For you, that is awesome, but trust me this is NOT common results.

I have pictures of a client on test + tren ----then cuts out test and keeps tren in ----same diet --BAM! lower back tightened up, abs clearer, denser looking etc.... Tren not being dry????? I have people go into shows on nothing but Acetate and they do not even need a diuretic, that is how damn lean and dry they are.!!!!!

This seems crazy to me...

-Matt
 
redman24 said:
not weak anabolic, weakly androgenic, as has been scientifically proven. (if you really want i can try to find the study)
i never talk out of my ass btw, and no tren is not dry, but oxymetholone is bone dry :-)

now are people gonna tell my im insane? i am expecting it :-p
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Look -- after dealing with several people throughout the years --- your personal results just are not normal. Simple as that -- tren is dry as hell, TRUST ME.
 

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interesting and i don't doubt your experience but i wonder why i have heard of many athletes removing tren some weeks prior to comp. maybe it depends on the quality of the product as well...

what i dont understand is how people will gain fat on test, unless they dont use an AI, which i would assume competitors would have sufficient knowledge about. i tend to strongly lean towards the theory that only real DHT and not its derivatives has direct fat burning ability.

is there maybe a chance that your friends lost fat on tren because of its strog nutrient partitioning abilities and gained fat on test because of estrogen?
i am not doubting that on tren fat burning is improved and that one can look very lean or dry, i am just sayin that it does posess progesterone activity ( i don't know if this is expressed correctly, english is not my first language) and in my experience nothing brns fat like test+AI.

however there is a chance my first time with tren the product was spiked with something crazy, as the gains and also the sides were immense. i basically developed acute psychosis on it, so maybe there was methyltest or something in it.
without proper lab tests of course a lot of discussion may be inaccurate due to people not having what is written on the vial.
 
That is the part about testosterone that I do not like ---- Run an AI with it.....Run a 5aR inhibitor etc....

My god, why include test at all when trying to get peeled? You have to buy ancillaries for estrogen and DHT making using test a real bitch.

Tren -- for non sensitive users covers all ground, no need for AI's or 5aR inhibitors etc.. IF the tren is ran LOW -- which is should be as it is very strong.

Test ran at 300 mg/week along side acetate should not require an AI and will aid in sex drive and mood if that is something you become affected by ---- if NOT, tren acetate could be your best weapon for your BASE STEROID while cutting -- not test.

-Matt
 
you mention a interesting point. run tren LOW. have you seen the results of high dose tren? there seems to be some anecdotal evidence that at higher dosage water retention becomes more apparent due to progesteron activity.

for me btw, i don't even like testosteron. it does'nt give me strength or size. all it does is increase metabolism like crazy. but since i like to eat a lot of cheesecake this is also kind of good. i can stay around 6% bf measured by caliper on 4000+ calories per day. my weight is approx. 195 pounds.
 
It's anabolic is 500 AND androgenic is 500 if you have a study that proves it isn't androgenicly strong please post it- because tren I had the most androgenic symptoms out of any other steroid I have run- and please tell me how abombs are dry? It's well known they are anything but
 
well as for the abombs, the theory that makes most sense is that they somehow potentiate already estrogenic compounds. anadrol by itself is dry, as its dht derived. actually adding anadrol to tren made me drier...but i don't like either compound, just so it doesn't sound like i am taking everything in sight..lol. it was only for a few weeks.

as for A:A, where do you get this ratio? as far as i know these ratios are defined by giving the compound to rats and measuring weight of a certain muscle (anabolic) and weight of prostate and seminal vesicle (androgenic). if i remember correctly the study showed an increase in prostate and seminal vesicle size similar to nandrolone. i will try and see if i can find it. it may be in german though. if so, i can translate the most important parts.
 
so the study is called "In Vitro and in Vivo Effects of 17ß-Trenbolone" by wilson et. al
its in there somewhere under hershberger assay. i found the relevant parts on a german website (in german) but it should be easily found in there.
 
na, it's okay, this kind of talk is fine, i like it, it's still informative for people, but for me, im concerned with using minimal ancileraries (sp) on cycle.

I would imagine tren/winstrol with a lose dose of test as a base would be the best cut/recomp stack with the least amount of sides.

run a short ester like ace, for both, and you can keep the cycle at 8 weeks, and use the oral the entire time.
 
redman24 said:
the first time yes, and interestingly i got fat. this time i used t3 for about 2 weeks, then stopped and used tren for 4 more weeks. didnt get fat.
i think its not because of t3 though but the first time i used no testosterone with the tren and testosterone burns fat on me like crazy.

i know this is not very conclusive and i am uncertain wether the t3 had any positive benefit.
Click to expand...

im sure the test helped alot, too bad you didn't use the t3 the entire time, without the test. but still good info. if it works, work it.
 
MattPorter said:
Jbry,

I am surprised you do not have any closer friends that share your same interest in lifting and improving??? I would think you would have a friend who is dedicated and down to take their physique to the next level with hormones --(injectables)

Perhaps that guy you speak of will become friendly with you----just dont be that douche that bugs him with "hey bro, you know where I can....."

-Matt
Click to expand...

oh, i dont have any friends, im not a very sociable person, people tend to think im pissed off that dont know me.

and it's hard for me to find people with similar interest, as I dont socialize when i workout, so maybe now i'll be able to make some friends now that I work at the gym, and have time to chat with people.

I dont need source hook ups, i got those, though havn't used them since i took my wife to see bigger stronger faster, but when the time comes, i'll have no problem finding stuff for myself.
i not the kind of person to ask for help, esp not help finding aas, lol.
 
quoted from anabolics 9th edition, in orange is from me. references to comments made in anabolics 9th edition, can be found in anabolics 9th edition, by william llewellyn (sp)
-----------------------
Finajet (trenbolone acetate) Androgenic 500 Anabolic 500 Standard Nandrolone acetate
[...]
In appearance, it is much more commonly compared to a stronger androgen such as drostanolone, than it is to nandrolone.
[...]
lt is also estimated to display about three times more androgenic potency than testosterone, making it one of the strongest injectable anabolic steroids ever commercially manufactured.
[...]
Among athletes, this steroid is highly valued for its ability to increase muscle hardness, definition, and raw strength, without unwanted water retention and fat mass gains. (this is because of it's high androgenicity)
[...]
It is considered a drug of choice for contest bodybuilders,[...]

now we can get back on topic, unless i need to show how anadrol is a wet dht derived steroid.


 
BAM! Schwell&Jbry 1- Redman-0
Had to bro sorry lol
 
you mean a quote by some "guru" is worth more than the hershberger assay?

unless those statements are based on contradictory studies, in which case we don't really know which are more accurate.

( i will not buy the book so if the androgenicity statement of trenbolone is based on a study the name of the study would be helpful)
 
Regardless of this study or that study --- REAL tren acetate --- fina for that matter

will get you bigger AND leaner and denser all in one!!!!

your experience is an anomaly to me, as I have never seen or experienced such results


from the beautiful compound.

-Matt
 
well, im sorry you feel that way about Bill. I'd go an try to find some stuff on tren from patrick arnold, but i dont think that, or any other stuff from reputable people will work.
 
jbryand101b said:
ANABOLIC STEROID USAGE AND THYROID SUPPRESSION
Patrick Arnold

[...]

Bodybuilders who use large amounts of anabolic steroids often report lethargy as a side effect. Sleepiness, irritability, and foggy-headness are commonly reported by users of some of the more powerful anabolic steroids in large dosages. The cause of this lethargy has been the subject of debate in the performance-enhancement drug community, and the solution may be multifactorial. Published studies have given reason to suspect that thyroid hormone suppression may be one of these factors.

THYROID HORMONES

There are two major thyroid hormones, T4 and T3. T3 is considered the most active thyroid hormone, and its job is to act as a sort of ter regulator of every major aspect of metabolism- from protein thesis to carbohydrate and fat oxidation. T3 acts in general as a metabolic stimulator, and in addition to its influence on how the uses fuel for energy and tissue building, it also works to generate heat production (thermogenesis) via enhancement of uncoupling protein 1 (UCP-1) expression in the liver.

The production of too much thyroid hormone (hyperthyroidism) and too little thyroid hormone (hypothyroidism) are both undesirable conditions. Hyperthyroidism leads to overstimulation of the nervous system (resulting in elevated heart rate and nervousness), as well loss of lean body mass due to protein catabolism. Hypothyroidism; the other hand, leads to depression and fatigue, as well as other symptoms such as joint pain, sensitivity to cold, and fat gain.

ANABOLIC STEROIDS AND THYROID SUPPRESSION

As I stated in my introduction, published studies have confirmed that anabolic steroid use can suppress thyroid hormone levels in the blood. It appears that this is not due so much to a decrease in the production of the main thyroid hormone (T4) in the thyroid gland, however. What really is the culprit of the suppression is debatable, as different studies have found different things. Two things are clear, though. The levels of total and free active thyroid hormone (T3) are decreased with anabolic steroid use, and T4 thyroid hormone-binding globulin levels are markedly elevated. However, free T4 appears to be unchanged, as does TSH, which is the hormone that your brain produces to stimulate thyroid hormone production in the thyroid gland. So what is happening is not entirely clear. It may be a combination of disrupted conversion of T4 to T3 and/or interference of bioavailable T4 levels by excessive T4 thyroid hormone-binding globulin. Whatever the case, levels of the active thyroid hormoneT3 can be suppressed by anabolic steroid use- particularly at higher dosages. Such suppression can interfere with maximum muscle growth from a cycle, as optimal protein synthesis activity is dependent upon ideal T3 levels in the body.

It is interesting to note that bodybuilders have discovered by trial and error that thyroid hormone supplementation leads to greater gains during a cycle. I am pretty sure that this anecdotal discovery was made without the knowledge that AAS (anabolic-androgenic steroid) usage is thyroid suppressive.
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Bumps
 
There was a recent article and study about T2 being the most effective thyroid hormone for weight loss, something about not being as catabolic but still affecting the thyroid.
 
Please elaborate?

Cool thread by the way - BUMP!

MidwestBeast said:
Just be careful adding the T3 in on your own.

Speaking from experience of running this stuff for so long, now, in a normal body, you can really screw things up if you're not careful.

What were your thryoid numbers starting off, again? One thing I've learned is you'll want to really be careful in supplementing with T3 as it will cause your Free T4 to drop off, which can become dangerous after a while.
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Well, I'm going to bump this Christmas thread and give some anecdotal feedback:

I have since experimented with t3 and some potent compounds.
tren ace being one of them. Not so much into orals anymore, but t3 helps tremendously with lethargy at low dosages.
 
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