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An OUTSTANDING Log: The Anabolic Chronicles...

StakedCop said:
It was to good to be true. Hopefully someone challenges this and brings back bulk CN.
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This wont be possible because TL has/will have the patents.

Altho I believe I heard Gaspari was suing them for the rights over the patent. But I wouldnt expect that to yield any bulk CN on the market either
 
Wheyfocused said:
This wont be possible because TL has/will have the patents.

Altho I believe I heard Gaspari was suing them for the rights over the patent. But I wouldnt expect that to yield any bulk CN on the market either
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I think Gaspari is trying to overturn the patent, not get the rights. That would yield bulk CN and bulk any other form of nitrated amino. I hope they win!

I did hear from Bruce Kneller at Gaspari he keeps getting offers from China for $5/kilo of CN, so there may be some gray market CN soon. Maybe someone like Smart Powders would pick it up, if the legal troubles weren't too bad (if that's possible with lawyers).
 
Milas said:
I think Gaspari is trying to overturn the patent, not get the rights. That would yield bulk CN and bulk any other form of nitrated amino. I hope they win!

I did hear from Bruce Kneller at Gaspari he keeps getting offers from China for $5/kilo of CN, so there may be some gray market CN soon. Maybe someone like Smart Powders would pick it up, if the legal troubles weren't too bad (if that's possible with lawyers).
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Thanks for the clarification :)

Reps
 
Milas said:
I think Gaspari is trying to overturn the patent, not get the rights. That would yield bulk CN and bulk any other form of nitrated amino. I hope they win!

I did hear from Bruce Kneller at Gaspari he keeps getting offers from China for $5/kilo of CN, so there may be some gray market CN soon. Maybe someone like Smart Powders would pick it up, if the legal troubles weren't too bad (if that's possible with lawyers).
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There are companies in China that are selling bulk CN. Only catch is the damn order size minimum.
 
$5 A KILO Creatine Nitrate... hmmmmm.

Does anyone here know what the difference is between REAL Creatine bonded to Nitrate, and if something else inferior exists where Creatine is simply included in powder form with some Nitrate powder (as this is something I'd expect from China)? Kind of like how companies will throw in some Carnitine and some Glycine powder, and claim GPLC on their label.
 
Outstanding said:
$5 A KILO Creatine Nitrate... hmmmmm.

Does anyone here know what the difference is between REAL Creatine bonded to Nitrate, and if something else inferior exists where Creatine is simply included in powder form with some Nitrate powder (as this is something I'd expect from China)? Kind of like how companies will throw in some Carnitine and some Glycine powder, and claim GPLC on their label.
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I would think there would be a couple of factors. One, how pure is the creatine mono then? It is hard to trust that there is creapure quality from China.

Two, the whole "it is absorbed at a much higher rate" theory would go out the window as it would no longer be bound (altho there are no studies to prove this at present anyway)

Aside from these two. I would assume that the pump effect would be just as substantial. But this is just theory
 
Wheyfocused said:
I would think there would be a couple of factors. One, how pure is the creatine mono then? It is hard to trust that there is creapure quality from China.

Two, the whole "it is absorbed at a much higher rate" theory would go out the window as it would no longer be bound (altho there are no studies to prove this at present anyway)

Aside from these two. I would assume that the pump effect would be just as substantial. But this is just theory
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This is very interesting to me now after thinking more about it...

Since Nitrates, not creatine, are responsible for the muscle volumizing effects (Beetroot powder can cause this effect, as it is high in nitrates - great research on this) and creatine is absorbed quite well, I wouldn't have a huge problem with nitrate powder paired with creatine monohydrate.

Actually, I have sought out and received some pricing on Beetroot powder by the kilo.
 
Outstanding said:
This is very interesting to me now after thinking more about it...

Since Nitrates, not creatine, are responsible for the muscle volumizing effects (Beetroot powder can cause this effect, as it is high in nitrates - great research on this) and creatine is absorbed quite well, I wouldn't have a huge problem with nitrate powder paired with creatine monohydrate.

Actually, I have sought out and received some pricing on Beetroot powder by the kilo.
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This may actually be a way to get the benefits of both without the price tag
 
It just doesn't seem to make sense though. Nitrates have been around in food and supplements for a while, but nothing like Creatine Nitrate.

I suspect perhaps it's the bond between creatine mono and nitrate that delivers the nitrate to the muscle, where it has been absorbed and produces a pump there (in the muscle as opposed to stomach).

Of course I could be totally wrong, I don't know where the bond is broken or how it's metabolized, but it just doesn't seem like it's as simple as creatine and nitrate taken together.
 
Milas said:
It just doesn't seem to make sense though. Nitrates have been around in food and supplements for a while, but nothing like Creatine Nitrate.

I suspect perhaps it's the bond between creatine mono and nitrate that delivers the nitrate to the muscle, where it has been absorbed and produces a pump there (in the muscle as opposed to stomach).

Of course I could be totally wrong, I don't know where the bond is broken or how it's metabolized, but it just doesn't seem like it's as simple as creatine and nitrate taken together.
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Ive found if you find a nitrate donor (such as beetroot) it has the same effect as CN. Which is nice because this allows me to use the creatine of my choice :)
 
Wheyfocused said:
This may actually be a way to get the benefits of both without the price tag
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Wheyfocused said:
Ive found if you find a nitrate donor (such as beetroot) it has the same effect as CN. Which is nice because this allows me to use the creatine of my choice :)
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That does it... if my CN runs out before a new alternative arises, I'll be going with bulk Beetroot powder, which I sourced and priced at $30/kilo. Very cost effective, and I could easily add in creatine monohydrate. Thanks Whey!
 
This is my understanding of CN..

Creatine Nitrate is a salt

once in the body the CN dissociates as the creatine and the nitrate both take different pathways. From the dissociation you end up with a creatine ion and nitrate ion.

It is the increased nitrate which makes the creatine more effective

You would need to supplement with a salt that creates nitrate ions and some creatine mono and you should see similar results to CN IMO

only thing here is we dont know how much nitrates are involved and there are health risk associated with extended periods of nitrate consumption

However, prolonged intake of high levels of nitrate are linked to gastric problems due to the formations of nitrosamines. N-nitrosamine compounds have been shown to cause cancer in test animals. Studies of people exposed to high levels of nitrate or nitrite have not provided convincing evidence of an increased risk of cancer.
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This is why you add in an antioxident like vitamin c to prevent the nitrosamine formation


EXTRAS

• Here is thermolifes patent application for CN, maybe you can look through it and make more sense of it than me:

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• Info from a manufacturer of Ceatine Nitrate

Synonyms: 2-(diaminomethylidene-methyl-azaniumyl)acetate;N-(Aminoiminomethyl)-N-methylglycine monohydrate;Glycine, N-(aminoiminomethyl)-N-methyl-, monohydrate;Creatine hydrate;Creatine, monohydrate;2-(carbamimidoyl-methyl-amino)acetic acid hydrate;Creatine Mono;Creatine Monohydrate FCC 4;Creatine Monohydrate (P190);Creatine 1-hydrate;CREATINE MONOHYDRATE 99%MIN;Creatine monohydrate/anhydrous 99.5%;creatine monodrate;
Molecular Structure:
Molecular Formula: C4H9N3O2.HNO3
Molecular Weight: 194.5

EINECS: 205-30-60
Melting Point: 292 °C (dec.)(lit.)
Boiling Point: 271.6 °C at 760 mmHg
Flash Point: 271.6 °C at 760 mmHg
Solubility: 13 g/L (20 °C) in water
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Creatine nitrate is a mixed creatine salt of creatine with an organic nitrate or nitrite group. The synthesis of creatine nitrate also results in creatine nitrate esters, although possibly in very low yield . Upon ingestion or in solution, the compound will disassociate into their respective parent ions. Nitrate (NO.sub3) will undergo metabolism to Nitric Oxide (NO) in smooth muscle tissue, resulting in vasodilation.



Some evidence exists to suggest that a creatine nitrate derivative would enhance absorption and decrease intestinal distress, which is commonly reported for creatine supplementation. In a study using NSAID nitroxybutyl dervivatives, it was determined that NSAID NO-donor analogues had greater, or equal, NSAID effectivness with significantly decreased GI distress as measured by ulcerogenic effects. Other NSAID nitrate derivatives have shared similar success with reducing GI distress, while not reducing drug effectiveness. In the same study, it was determined that ester hydrolysis would occur in the stomach, reducing the drug to its parent compound and organic nitrate. These conditions would appear to support the use of a nitrate salt, which would already be dissosociated from its parent compound. Similarly, nitrate salts of dextromethorphan and ambroxol have been shown to be more effective than their HCl salt derivatives.
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Judo, GREAT stuff - repped. I have to get these write-ups done! GRRRRRRR!

Must.......... stop................... procrastinating!!!
 
Outstanding said:
Judo, GREAT stuff - repped. I have to get these write-ups done! GRRRRRRR!

Must.......... stop................... procrastinating!!!
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If you have access to a lab and raws you can probably use something like potassium or sodium nitrate and bond it to some mono but I'm not a chemist so don't really know if that is even a possibility or not. You seem like the type who knows a chemist or two, I'm sure this can be done by someone in a college lab even. but again :dunno: I'm just assuming a whole lot of stuff

Corned beef has nitrates I believe, you can eat a can of corn beef and take the creatine and boom CN with a weight gainer attached :D (j/k)
 
JUST DID MYSELF A HEAP OF ORDERING!

L-Carnitine L-Tartrate, B5, Taurine... all in bulk. Ska-DOOCH.

Also, I found MAN Sport's Blue Print with a FULL GRAM of Agmatine Sulfate and 300mg r-ALA for $19.99 on one of my favorite websites (they just clearanced it)! I bought three bottles.

BOO-TO-THE-YAH! :)
 
Outstanding said:
JUST DID MYSELF A HEAP OF ORDERING!

L-Carnitine L-Tartrate, B5, Taurine... all in bulk. Ska-DOOCH.

Also, I found MAN Sport's Blue Print with a FULL GRAM of Agmatine Sulfate and 300mg r-ALA for $19.99 on one of my favorite websites (they just clearanced it)! I bought three bottles.

BOO-TO-THE-YAH! :)
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This makes my D3 order look boring :p
 
Wheyfocused said:
What's your R-ALA protocol?

How do you feel it mixes with fishoils?

Any thoughts on taking it with biotin?
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The only thing I feel comfortably commenting on, would be the r-ALA usage practice. I take 800mg pre-workout, and from some of the research I've done it peaks in vitro at two hours post ingestion, so by the time I arrive back home from training I'm primed for heightened nutrient and glucose absorption. I also use r-ALA prior to cheat meals, along with Need 2 Slin, Recompadrol, Cinnulin, HCA capsules I made, and 600mg additional 75% Gymnema.

Oh that reminds me... I drove by my favorite ice cream stand today on the way to work, and I saw someone in there hooking up all the machines, getting ready to open for the season! Mmmmmmmm.

I'm watching an Evan Centopani video right now on YouTube, his 'seminar' from the Cage at the Arnold. He's a really methodical calculating dude. My kinda guy!
 
The reason I ask is because I have heard there is decreased absorption when taking with Omega 3's...and that biotin aids absorption.

I was unaware of the exact specifics of the previous absorption concerns (or whether they were even valid at all)

Ive been taking 600mg daily of R-ALA
 
Wheyfocused said:
The reason I ask is because I have heard there is decreased absorption when taking with Omega 3's...and that biotin aids absorption.

I was unaware of the exact specifics of the previous absorption concerns (or whether they were even valid at all)

Ive been taking 600mg daily of R-ALA
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Big believer and user of both R-ALA and na-R-ALA. I sourced both in bulk from a couple places, and what's hilarious is that R-ALA capsules are for the first time of any raw compound I've researched the same/less than buying the raw from a supplier (well, from the website and manufacturer I buy them from at least). As far as na-R-ALA, it's about the same as the R version believe it or not, around $100 per $100 grams (from Geranova).
 
Outstanding said:
Big believer and user of both R-ALA and na-R-ALA. I sourced both in bulk from a couple places, and what's hilarious is that R-ALA capsules are for the first time of any raw compound I've researched the same/less than buying the raw from a supplier (well, from the website and manufacturer I buy them from at least). As far as na-R-ALA, it's about the same as the R version believe it or not, around $100 per $100 grams (from Geranova).
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What specific advantages do you see between the two forms?
 
I'm going to be logging Controlled Labs new intra-workout product, Psyko. If I don't put on 20 pound of muscle, I'm going to give it horrible reviews ;)

There is something I keep wanting to come in here and tell everyone, but I forget every time I make it back here in my journal. Oh well. Netflix is down, that's weird, never seen that happen before. So, I tried to watch Dexter on Showtime's website, and it kept making my browser crash.

Sometimes I think it would be fantastical if we lived back in the... ohhhh... either the 1800's, or something like 1940's. Wow, that would be ridiculously amazing. No cell phones, no LCD screens, no rap music, no MSNBC.

PS: I have been BACK on this now for a couple weeks, and wowza, just great! I wanted to remind everyone about it Invalid Link Removed

PPS: WHEN MARTY GOES BACK IN TIME... now THAT is the era I'm talkin' about! Hill Valley baby!

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I often wondered what it would have been like "back in the day". But i could deal with the present if there was no CNN, MESMBC and of course rap. Oh can't forget the "protected class" and the "entitlement generation".

I scored recompadrol for 27 bucks a few weeks ago. Anyone else notice green BMs from this stuff?
 
StakedCop said:
I often wondered what it would have been like "back in the day". But i could deal with the present if there was no CNN, MESMBC and of course rap. Oh can't forget the "protected class" and the "entitlement generation".

I scored recompadrol for 27 bucks a few weeks ago. Anyone else notice green BMs from this stuff?
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Some lingering St. Patty's residue??:smirk:

Haven't used Recomp but GlycoBol did that to me at first.
 
StakedCop said:
I often wondered what it would have been like "back in the day". But i could deal with the present if there was no CNN, MESMBC and of course rap. Oh can't forget the "protected class" and the "entitlement generation".

I scored recompadrol for 27 bucks a few weeks ago. Anyone else notice green BMs from this stuff?
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This might sound odd, but I really like the 'gastric issues' it causes, because first of all, it actually makes me more regular, and all of those issues completely subside after a week, two at MOST. I take a powdered 'greens' supplement as well, which helps keeps things moving along nicely.

OH - the picture you painted about no entitlement generation, AWESOME! I can't STAND those liberal mush-minded morons.
 
Liberals = Mush heads!!

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I have not had one lose stool since I started recompadrol. No "GI" issues really other then it's green every time. Ok enough about poop...

I'm also gonna be logging that intra from CL. They seem to have perfected the taste of purple wraath :) I look forward to each sip during my workout.
 
Wheyfocused said:
LOL we posted the vid at the same time
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That's awesome! I noticed the embedding option was disabled by user. Lame!

Well, fellas, it's been real! I've been through a' plenty of episodes of House, and Family Guy, and who knows what else - but all things must come to an end!

Until next time, take tons of steroids and lift heavy weights.
 
Since I am feeling generous..

Heres your video

:djparty:

 
Looking forward to your feedback on PsyKo!

I'm a big fan of intras (AM workouts), and I actually liked the old one, InTrain. I think the improved flavor will help during the workout. I've used SizeOn and some of the flavors can be overpowering.
 
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