Alpha GPC+Huperzine A

[VersatileGG]

This stack has been great for strength/size gains. But I get extremely depressed. I lose senses, brain fog, anhedonia, I start to hate everything. I hate feeling this way. How can I keep the performance benefits of this stack, but keep the Acetycholine low? Acetycholine seems to be the problem since it lowers dopamine. Can someone please help me?

I don't want to discontinue it becuz I don't wanna lose size. Physically it helps but mentally I'm a wreck. Enlighten me yall

 

[VersatileGG]

Hm. Ok. First of all, the entire function of that stack is ACh signaling. Alpha GPC is a precursor and huperzone A inhibits ACh breakdown. So there's no way to take that stack and keep ACh low.

Second, the mutually inhibitory effects of ACh and dopamine have good evidence behind them, but I would be shocked if you were taking so much of the stack you became extremely depressed because of the ACh lowering dopamine production. The worst case scenario should be feeling mildly lethargic and unmotivated for maybe a couple hours. I've heard of Alpha GPC causing brain fog - what dosages are you taking? Have you tried taking them separately?

Last, discontinuing the stack itself isn't going to make you lose a lot of size. The effect range of nootropics on performance and muscle synthesis is just so small compared to the effect range of proper diet and progressively increasing training intensity. I would try halving the doses and adding more caffeine or another preworkout that lets you train just as intensely. Consider trying a reasonable dose of a dopamine precursor like mucuna pruriens or L-tyrosine if you want.

Hi thank you for your response. I tried some tyrosine with eaas I still feel extremely depressed. I also took forkskolin to try to lower the breakdown of Acetycholine more. This is insane, extreme anhedonia it's almost suicidal. I didn't even take the alpha gpc today, I only took huperzine a (in preworkout) and ate some egg yolks. My diet is heavy in choline so maybe it's contributing to this. Omg I feel so blue I just want it to go away... usually I don't feel as bad when I take alpha gpc with huperzine for some reason, maybe it's the dopamine?

I eat very healthy organic Whole Foods, sleep well and have a healthy lifestyle, so it must be one of the supplements

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

why dont you take a break from that stack?

get yourself a bottle of Ursa major and Triton. you will hold all your size plus you will get huge pumps, vascularity, and virtually no side effects. people rave about this stack.

I love A-GPC, but this Ursa/Triton stack will have you a believer virtually overnight.

 

[Oliver Kween]

Hm. Ok. First of all, the entire function of that stack is ACh signaling. Alpha GPC is a precursor and huperzone A inhibits ACh breakdown. So there's no way to take that stack and keep ACh low.

Second, the mutually inhibitory effects of ACh and dopamine have good evidence behind them, but I would be shocked if you were taking so much of the stack you became extremely depressed because of the ACh lowering dopamine production. The worst case scenario should be feeling mildly lethargic and unmotivated for maybe a couple hours. I've heard of Alpha GPC causing brain fog - what dosages are you taking? Have you tried taking them separately?

Last, discontinuing the stack itself isn't going to make you lose a lot of size. The effect range of nootropics on performance and muscle synthesis is just so small compared to the effect range of proper diet and progressively increasing training intensity. I would try halving the doses and adding more caffeine or another preworkout that lets you train just as intensely. Consider trying a reasonable dose of a dopamine precursor like mucuna pruriens or L-tyrosine if you want.

The same...

I've also seen testimonials about GPC causing fog. Personally, I haven't had this effect, even with several different brands and even stacking with MindlLabPro (Lion's mean). I dare to suppose that it must be selective with certain people only.

I'm sure at that time I also had Huperzine, but I was completing it with Gaba and D-ribose

 

[sns8778]

If anything is making anyone feel that bad and depressed, I would definitely stop taking it.

Alpha GPC isn't for everyone - I don't speak on it much, but I don't like it very much myself in higher doses. I actually much prefer Choline Citrate for mood and Citicoline sometimes for other purposes.

 

[Jeremyk1]

I’d take a break and see if that fixes the issue, that way you can isolate the problem.

I don’t know if there’s an actual medical link, but I’ve seen it suggested that overactive choline can lead to depression. I’ve never experienced it, but I do see how it’s possible. From what I know, a lot of neurotransmitters follow inverse relations with others, but definitely with dopamine and acetylcholine. That might be the issue.

I don’t want to give medical advice, but if it was me, I’d probably try a big dose of tyrosine. Not like in an amino blend, other aminos, especially BCAAs can compete with and deplete tyrosine. I’d go at least 3 grams of tyrosine without any other aminos or protein nearby.

In the long term, I’d take tyrosine with your acetylcholine boosters to try and offset this effect. Both will have benefits for workouts or anything requiring mental energy. I’d also be careful with huperzine. It stops the breakdown of acetylcholine, so you can get an excessive buildup. If you want to increase acetylcholine, I’d start with just a choline source so you don’t overdo it. If you want a little more horsepower, I’d add some acetyl carnitine first. From there, you can add huperzine, but again, be very careful. For choline sources, I’d probably lean toward citicoline/CDP choline over alpha GPC, but some people do prefer GPC.

 

[Resolve10]

I’d take a break and see if that fixes the issue, that way you can isolate the problem.

I don’t know if there’s an actual medical link, but I’ve seen it suggested that overactive choline can lead to depression. I’ve never experienced it, but I do see how it’s possible. From what I know, a lot of neurotransmitters follow inverse relations with others, but definitely with dopamine and acetylcholine. That might be the issue.

I don’t want to give medical advice, but if it was me, I’d probably try a big dose of tyrosine. Not like in an amino blend, other aminos, especially BCAAs can compete with and deplete tyrosine. I’d go at least 3 grams of tyrosine without any other aminos or protein nearby.

In the long term, I’d take tyrosine with your acetylcholine boosters to try and offset this effect. Both will have benefits for workouts or anything requiring mental energy. I’d also be careful with huperzine. It stops the breakdown of acetylcholine, so you can get an excessive buildup. If you want to increase acetylcholine, I’d start with just a choline source so you don’t overdo it. If you want a little more horsepower, I’d add some acetyl carnitine first. From there, you can add huperzine, but again, be very careful. For choline sources, I’d probably lean toward citicoline/CDP choline over alpha GPC, but some people do prefer GPC.

Ya I think OP should just stop, doesn't sound worth it and other guys have more effectively covered how you aren't going to lose a ton of gains stopping.

This is good advice in general for anyone looking to dabble in these kinds of ingredients. ALCAR + Tyrosine + Choline source is always my main go-to. The amounts and forms altered and increased/lowered depending on personal tolerances and needs.

 

[sns8778]

I’d take a break and see if that fixes the issue, that way you can isolate the problem.

I don’t know if there’s an actual medical link, but I’ve seen it suggested that overactive choline can lead to depression. I’ve never experienced it, but I do see how it’s possible. From what I know, a lot of neurotransmitters follow inverse relations with others, but definitely with dopamine and acetylcholine. That might be the issue.

I don’t want to give medical advice, but if it was me, I’d probably try a big dose of tyrosine. Not like in an amino blend, other aminos, especially BCAAs can compete with and deplete tyrosine. I’d go at least 3 grams of tyrosine without any other aminos or protein nearby.

In the long term, I’d take tyrosine with your acetylcholine boosters to try and offset this effect. Both will have benefits for workouts or anything requiring mental energy. I’d also be careful with huperzine. It stops the breakdown of acetylcholine, so you can get an excessive buildup. If you want to increase acetylcholine, I’d start with just a choline source so you don’t overdo it. If you want a little more horsepower, I’d add some acetyl carnitine first. From there, you can add huperzine, but again, be very careful. For choline sources, I’d probably lean toward citicoline/CDP choline over alpha GPC, but some people do prefer GPC.

I agree and think that's good advice.

I'm a big fan of Tyrosine myself.

I am a big fan of Huperzine too though and think that offers a lot of benefits and that it rarely, if ever, is going to cause any adverse issues at 200 mcg. per day. I think that its when get up to the 600 mcg. range that that really starts to become an issue. For me, I use up to 2 Focus XT per day which would be 200 mcg. total and supplement with an additional 200 mcg. per day either individually or other supplements.

I'll be so glad when we get Focus XT back available because it has ALCAR + Tyrosine + Huperzine + Choline + DMAE and more all in one product and is a great option for people wanting to use just one product.

For a choline source in general, I like citicoline better than Alpha GPC personally, but what I really like the best if my goal with choline supplementation is improved mood is Choline Citrate. On here, the conversation is always on the advanced choline forms like Alpha GPC and citicoline and people really overlook Choline Citrate, but it is excellent for improved mood.

We sell a lot of our Choline Citrate powder and we have so much positive feedback and testimonials on it and regular customers that depend on it that we actually keep several cases to the side for some people so that if we were to run out, that we'd still have some for them because they really depend on it.

 

[sns8778]

Ya I think OP should just stop, doesn't sound worth it and other guys have more effectively covered how you aren't going to lose a ton of gains stopping.

This is good advice in general for anyone looking to dabble in these kinds of ingredients. ALCAR + Tyrosine + Choline source is always my main go-to. The amounts and forms altered and increased/lowered depending on personal tolerances and needs.

I absolutely agree - ALCAR + Tyrosine + Choline source is a great mainstay. That's why I love Focus XT so much personally and will be so glad when we get it back in stock.

People tend to debate choline as to what is the best source - but that really varies by the individual person and also by what they're using it for.

If specifically for mood, Choline Citrate imo is the best and a lot better value than Alpha GPC or Citicoline.

Another place where Choline Citrate powder shines is that its consistent in that most people find that they get good reliable results from it.

Whereas for me, Alpha GPC and Citicoline I respond better to lower dosages than higher dosages and also seem to get used to them quickly so they only really work if I use them sporadically.

 

[sns8778]

I'm excited for focus xt restock!!! In case I haven't already said that in 10 other threads today

Ha. Me too. Say it as much as you'd like haha.

I just opened up another tub of one of the clumped ones a few minutes ago from the batch we had that clumped and we didn't sell and that led us to having to be out and do the flavor matching stuff with a new cm. The product itself was fine, some people just freak out over clumping - I've been drinking the heck out of it haha.

If no one else gets any of the clumped ones from me, me and @Rocket3015 will drink it all haha.

 

[sns8778]

For future reference I would absolutely use those clumpy tubs

Anyone that is interested in Focus XT and doesn't mind them being clumped, I have Pink Lemonade and Blue Raspberry, and would be glad to sell them at a discount to them. Just pm me.

I would like to them before we get the new stock in and won't be able to sell them after that. I'll do 20.00 for 1, 3 for 50.00, or 10 for 100 plus shipping which would we could just say 5.00 on 1 unit or 10.00 on the 3 pack or 10 pack.