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Unanswered Alchemist's lean mass cycle (SD, Primo, Tren Hex and Var)

manifesto said:
@Alchemist11 , do you do cardio?

I know you play volleyball, which definitely is legit cardio. Just wondering what else you do...

I feel like keeping the cardio up, keeps water retention down, and helps avoid too much AI
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Due to knee injury, I dediced to stop with volleyball training until January. Currently, I don't do cardio, but from next week, I'll incorporate 2-3 HIIT sessions after workout. Stairmaster is my go to for HIIT usualy.
 
manifesto said:
@Alchemist11 , do you do cardio?

I know you play volleyball, which definitely is legit cardio. Just wondering what else you do...

I feel like keeping the cardio up, keeps water retention down, and helps avoid too much AI
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I believe most of us would do better with less ai. I have dramatically changed my stance towards them compared to before the cycle.
 
Amazing progress man. I just picked up a few tren hex vials for my next run want to see how it differs from a and e. I personally like the long esters and I’ve heard the gains per mg compared to a and e are night and day. Plus I’ve heard sides are almost non existent but only one way to find out.
Alchemist11 said:
Yes, I adressed all of that info im my previous cycle log, and that slow release is why I decided to go with hex. There's a good reason why hex ester is much more expensive than enanthate. And honestly, I see much more people having problems with enanthate
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I still get that rage a bit and irritated but I just avoid situations knowing that they could be a problem. with enanthate as long as I keep it around 300-400 a week it’s manageable but have to run low test especially since I’m running eq with it.
 
Cmseabee24 said:
Amazing progress man. I just picked up a few tren hex vials for my next run want to see how it differs from a and e. I personally like the long esters and I’ve heard the gains per mg compared to a and e are night and day. Plus I’ve heard sides are almost non existent but only one way to find out.

I still get that rage a bit and irritated but I just avoid situations knowing that they could be a problem. with enanthate as long as I keep it around 300-400 a week it’s manageable but have to run low test especially since I’m running eq with it.
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I think that 350 mg of Tren per week is more than enough to grow and see progress, going over that is just asking for it...
 
Alchemist11 said:
I think that 350 mg of Tren per week is more than enough to grow and see progress, going over that is just asking for it...
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That’s right we’re I’m at 1.5 a week of 225 tren e. I’m gonna keep it there to see how that does. After using tren it’s hard to wanna run a cycle without it just because the drastic changes as you can tell by your physique.
 
Cmseabee24 said:
That’s right we’re I’m at 1.5 a week of 225 tren e. I’m gonna keep it there to see how that does. After using tren it’s hard to wanna run a cycle without it just because the drastic changes as you can tell by your physique.
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Power that Tren gives you is verry addictive, but my next cycle, after a bit longer pause will be test, high dose Primo and Anavar.
 
Alchemist11 said:
Power that Tren gives you is verry addictive, but my next cycle, after a bit longer pause will be test, high dose Primo and Anavar.
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I’d be interested to follow a log don’t know many who have ran primo because it’s so expensive especially to run it at a decent dose. I Try to run lean mass compounds. Although I will run one last bill cycle next year as I already have the gear for test deca and a anadrol my body responded so well to it.
 
Alchemist11 said:
Power that Tren gives you is verry addictive, but my next cycle, after a bit longer pause will be test, high dose Primo and Anavar.
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This is my all time favorite cycle and I'm running it right now. Week 2 currently so its just getting going.
 
I just want to clarify something. Tren is used to bulk up cattle. Still, there are lots of guys who say that it is damn near impossible to gain bodyweight on tren.
Then there are those who say that tren lowers thyroid output and will allow you to gain weight earing less calories than without it.

Which camp should i believe?
 
CroLifter said:
I just wanted to clarify something. Tren is used to bulk up cattle. Still, there are lots of guys who say that it is damn near impossible to gain bodyweight on tren.
Then there are those who say that tren lowers thyroid output and will allow you to gain weight earing less calories than without it.

Which camp should i believe?
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Find my previous cycle log. I explained how I lean bulked on Tren. Basicaly, add estrogen, and boom. But not everybody can handle that much aromatisation to run in body freely
 
Alchemist11 said:
Find my previous cycle log. I explained how I lean bulked on Tren. Basicaly, add estrogen, and boom. But not everybody can handle that much aromatisation to run in body freely
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Ahh so you are the high test/low tren guy then?

btw i totally agree with keeping estrogen higher with tren. Keeping it higher will benefit any bulking cycle.
 
CroLifter said:
Ahh so you are the high test/low tren guy then?

btw i totally agree with keeping estrogen higher with tren. Keeping it higher will benefit any bulking cycle.
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I don't get much estrogen from test, but I on purpose add hcg, thats estrogen factory for me, and I really felt benefits from that
 
Never underestimate the power of estrogen!

Strength was going up crazy on cycle at times when i didnt take ai. The only problem i have with not taking ai is that i lose the drive and start feeling normal, almost a little depressed.

I hope proviron will help as i intend on doing away with ai next cycle, both for health reasons and for the sake of gains.

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Cliffs: Tren Ace + E2 = most gains, more than just Tren Ace
 
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CroLifter said:
Never underestimate the power of estrogen!

Strength was going up crazy on cycle at times when i didnt take ai. The only problem i have with not taking ai is that i lose the drive and start feeling normal, almost a little depressed.

I hope proviron will help as i intend on doing away with ai next cycle, both for health reasons and for the sake of gains.

Invalid Link Removed
Cliffs: Tren Ace + E2 = most gains, more than just Tren Ace
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I’ve been running proviron with test eq and tren haven’t had to us AI yet and I started Cycle Nov 8th. Proviron is amazing a guy I worked with swore by it he was right I’ll never run a cycle without it from here on out. What I’m noticing so far I expect this to be the best run I’ve had as long as diet stays good. Sorry to derail the thread a bit but this is why I like logs because without others knowledge/opinions we sometimes may overlook or never find out some pertinent info.
 
Cmseabee24 said:
I’ve been running proviron with test eq and tren haven’t had to us AI yet and I started Cycle Nov 8th. Proviron is amazing a guy I worked with swore by it he was right I’ll never run a cycle without it from here on out. What I’m noticing so far I expect this to be the best run I’ve had as long as diet stays good. Sorry to derail the thread a bit but this is why I like logs because without others knowledge/opinions we sometimes may overlook or never find out some pertinent info.
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I 100% agree. Love Proviron, I'm running it right now myself
 
CroLifter said:
Never underestimate the power of estrogen!

Strength was going up crazy on cycle at times when i didnt take ai. The only problem i have with not taking ai is that i lose the drive and start feeling normal, almost a little depressed.

I hope proviron will help as i intend on doing away with ai next cycle, both for health reasons and for the sake of gains.

Invalid Link Removed
Cliffs: Tren Ace + E2 = most gains, more than just Tren Ace
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Yeah, I tried that study on myself and gains were incredible. I just needed to find a compound that aromatises much, and bingo. Invalid Link RemovedThis pic is from that cycle at my peak.
 
Cmseabee24 said:
I’ve been running proviron with test eq and tren haven’t had to us AI yet and I started Cycle Nov 8th. Proviron is amazing a guy I worked with swore by it he was right I’ll never run a cycle without it from here on out. What I’m noticing so far I expect this to be the best run I’ve had as long as diet stays good. Sorry to derail the thread a bit but this is why I like logs because without others knowledge/opinions we sometimes may overlook or never find out some pertinent info.
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No man, you're not derailing, I love when people share their knowlegde and experience, it really can help others.
 
CroLifter said:
Never underestimate the power of estrogen!

Strength was going up crazy on cycle at times when i didnt take ai. The only problem i have with not taking ai is that i lose the drive and start feeling normal, almost a little depressed.

I hope proviron will help as i intend on doing away with ai next cycle, both for health reasons and for the sake of gains.

Invalid Link Removed
Cliffs: Tren Ace + E2 = most gains, more than just Tren Ace
Click to expand...
I’ve been running proviron with test eq and tren haven’t had to us AI yet and I started Cycle Nov 8th. Proviron is amazing a guy I worked with swore by it he was right I’ll never run a cycle without it from here on out. What I’m noticing so far I expect this to be the best run I’ve had as long as diet stays good. Sorry to derail the thread a bit but this is why I like logs because without others knowledge/opinions we sometimes may overlook or never find out some pertinent info.
Alchemist11 said:
Yeah, I tried that study on myself and gains were incredible. I just needed to find a compound that aromatises much, and bingo. Invalid Link RemovedThis pic is from that cycle at my peak.
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Holy **** bro you should be competing in no time. Don’t really need much prep that’s for sure.
 
Cmseabee24 said:
I’ve been running proviron with test eq and tren haven’t had to us AI yet and I started Cycle Nov 8th. Proviron is amazing a guy I worked with swore by it he was right I’ll never run a cycle without it from here on out. What I’m noticing so far I expect this to be the best run I’ve had as long as diet stays good. Sorry to derail the thread a bit but this is why I like logs because without others knowledge/opinions we sometimes may overlook or never find out some pertinent info.

Holy **** bro you should be competing in no time. Don’t really need much prep that’s for sure.
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Well, if rumors are correct, in spring, there will be classic physique division, for the first time in my country, and I'd really like to try that.
 
Alchemist11 said:
Yeah, I tried that study on myself and gains were incredible. I just needed to find a compound that aromatises much, and bingo. Invalid Link RemovedThis pic is from that cycle at my peak.
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Fawk bro you got the genetics to do this shyt. Ive followed your past couple cycles youre definitely slapping on some thick mass. You're making serious progress every cycle. And your cycles are well thought out based on goals. You're strategically planning your cycles which is other level shyt. Your minds already there. A lot of people just throw shyt at the wall and see what sticks. You're smart about what youre running.


You have that grainy look that people chase but not all can attain genetically. I think you could do really well in a classic physique.
 
Godstrength said:
Fawk bro you got the genetics to do this shyt. Ive followed your past couple cycles youre definitely slapping on some thick mass. You're making serious progress every cycle. And your cycles are well thought out based on goals. You're strategically planning your cycles which is other level shyt. Your minds already there. A lot of people just throw shyt at the wall and see what sticks. You're smart about what youre running.


You have that grainy look that people chase but not all can attain genetically. I think you could do really well in a classic physique.
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Thanks man, this realy means a lot. When your work and effort gets recognised.
Well, I try to keep it as low as possible with dosages, and to stack the things which I think will have synergistic effect.

I go by the theory, if I'll get shut down and manipulate with my hormones, I'll do most of it and make it as quality as possible, that takes a lot of research and planning but I don't mind that, It always pays off.
The more I progress and hear feedback from you guys, that encourages me more to try to compete in classic physique division.
 
Week 8 update.
Today was upper chest and triceps day. Went better than I expected. If anyone is interested, workout was this
Incline BB bench press on Smith bar
12, 12, 12, 12 +drop 12+10
Incline DB press
Seth sets 12/24, 12/24, 10/16
Incline DB fly's
4 x 10
Supersetted with incline close grip push ups
4 x 10-15
Upper chest dips
4 x 10
Supersetted with
Machine fly's
4 x 12
Low to high cable crossover
4 x 12
Triceps
Overhead cable one arm extension
12, 12, 10, 10
Wide grip straigh bar push down
18, 16, 14, 12
V-bar cable overhead extension
3 x 15
Here's progress pic, my knee is gtg and now I can start doing cardio and cut down bf%.
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manifesto said:
I'm jealous of your lack of "bacne."

I'm only on TRT right now and dealing with it non-stop. Any tips bro?
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To prevent any hormonal acne, you have to keep blood levels as stable as possible. Frequent dosing helps, as does always pinning on the same days/times. Beyond this, only accutane has helped me in the past, but honestly it’s all about keeping blood levels consistent.
 
Outofbody said:
To prevent any hormonal acne, you have to keep blood levels as stable as possible. Frequent dosing helps, as does always pinning on the same days/times. Beyond this, only accutane has helped me in the past, but honestly it’s all about keeping blood levels consistent.
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That's exactly why I use Sustanon and take orals in as many divided dosages as I can during the day
 
I have to make one update regarding strength. This is insane, I haven't been this strong on Dbol nor Anadrol. And yet my joints and tendons feel fine. Last nights pull workout was absurd, damn shame I didn't had anyone to take a pic. But focus, clear vision and work are all there. Really happy with how my back is developing.Invalid Link Removed
Invalid Link Removed
 
Outofbody said:
To prevent any hormonal acne, you have to keep blood levels as stable as possible. Frequent dosing helps, as does always pinning on the same days/times. Beyond this, only accutane has helped me in the past, but honestly it’s all about keeping blood levels consistent.
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Agreed. Between test and dhb im pinning every day right now. Smaller more frequent doses ftw
 
I noted that you dont use and dont intend to use any kind of nandrolone in your cycles.

Any particular reason why you dislike it?
 
Alchemist11 said:
Horrible for heart, worse than Tren. Just not worth bc all of the risks IMO
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Hmmm interesting...never thought of it like that.
Always thought tren was the worst.

In what way do ypu think it is worse for the heart? I am not sure that it wrecks lipids more than tren, i dont think so.
 
CroLifter said:
I noted that you dont use and dont intend to use any kind of nandrolone in your cycles.

Any particular reason why you dislike it?
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Horrible for heart, worse than Tren. Just not worth bc all of the risks IMO
CroLifter said:
Hmmm interesting...never thought of it like that.
Always thought tren was the worst.

In what way do ypu think it is worse for the heart? I am not sure that it wrecks lipids more than tren, i dont think so.
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I don't like to be watery mess and I don't like the whole concept with deca or npp per example. And I think Deca is shitty compound, to be honest
 
Alchemist11 said:
Horrible for heart, worse than Tren. Just not worth bc all of the risks IMO

I don't like to be watery mess and I don't like the whole concept with deca or npp per example. And I think Deca is shitty compound, to be honest
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Yes definitely you wont look the same with nandrolone compared to tren. And yes i also wouldnt touch deca since it is such a long ester. From now on i am only using short esters, except test e which is the base.

I mean this is off topic so i wont go into detail but it is my opinion that both tren and nandrolone are significantly worse for the heart than test, with tren being worse. And tren definitely has more sides than nandrolone, but has more positives.

The stronger the anabolic, worse the sides get. No free lunch.
 
CroLifter said:
The stronger the anabolic, worse the sides get. No free lunch.
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That's not true, look for example Anavar, it's relatively highly anabolic, and yet, you feel like demi god on it. Also, I'd say this once again, this game we play is not for everyone. Some will cry over feeling a bit down during pct, some will loose most of the gains, and get every bad side of certan compound by the book.
 
Alchemist11 said:
Horrible for heart, worse than Tren. Just not worth bc all of the risks IMO

I don't like to be watery mess and I don't like the whole concept with deca or npp per example. And I think Deca is shitty compound, to be honest
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I don’t like the weight you hold on deca either but I’ve heard with low dose tren you don’t get all that retention. Not sure how true this is but I may try it for my next cycle just to see.
 
Alchemist11 said:
That's not true, look for example Anavar, it's relatively highly anabolic, and yet, you feel like demi god on it. Also, I'd say this once again, this game we play is not for everyone. Some will cry over feeling a bit down during pct, some will loose most of the gains, and get every bad side of certan compound by the book.
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Yes if you look at the ratios of anabolic:androgenic activity. But in reality how much muscle do people put on anavar compared to test, deca, tren...

and all these sides you mention, they are part of the game. I mean, there is a saying that if a drug doesnt hwve sides, then it doesnt work.
 
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CroLifter said:
The stronger the anabolic, worse the sides get. No free lunch.
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and all these sides you mention, they are part of the game. I mean, there is a saying that if a drug doesnt hwve sides, then it doesnt work.
[/QUOTE]
Again not true. Lol
I bed my ass, 90% people will gain more solid muscle and keep it from Anavar, than what they think is muscle from deca.
 
@Alchemist11 , check your DM when you have a chance bro
 
Alchemist11 said:
Again not true. Lol
I bed my ass, 90% people will gain more solid muscle and keep it from Anavar, than what they think is muscle from deca.
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I am under impression that thera are 2 opposing schools of thought when it comes to var. Some guys says it is total waste of money, weak and useless yet others highly praise it as a great add on which hardens you up and even gives you some strength gains.

I know that you belong to the latter (since you also recommended it to me).

Damn i guess there is no other way to go about it but to try it and then judge. Some time in the future.
 
CroLifter said:
I am under impression that thera are 2 opposing schools of thought when it comes to var. Some guys says it is total waste of money, weak and useless yet others highly praise it as a great add on which hardens you up and even gives you some strength gains.

I know that you belong to the latter (since you also recommended it to me).

Damn i guess there is no other way to go about it but to try it and then judge. Some time in the future.
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It gives you a ton of strength, and clean strength, not close-to-heartattack-strength of water like Dbol or Anadrol.
Many of guys didn't tried legit Anavar.
And also, I believe in this, your blood type determens greatly how will you react to certan compound. I have yet to explore this theory but I think it has something to do with that.
 
I've heard the response to Anavar is very individual, it can either be a great mass builder or not depending on the person. It being faked often also adds to the confusion.
 
danielvp said:
I've heard the response to Anavar is very individual, it can either be a great mass builder or not depending on the person. It being faked often also adds to the confusion.
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Agreed faking is a big issue. Puts me off from anavar more than anything else, much more than the cost.
 
danielvp said:
I've heard the response to Anavar is very individual, it can either be a great mass builder or not depending on the person. It being faked often also adds to the confusion.
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I go by this rule, if you find legit Turinabol, you can expect to have legit Anavar from that lab. They are both great compounds and both are highly faked. But this rule works
 
Alchemist11 said:
I go by this rule, if you find legit Turinabol, you can expect to have legit Anavar from that lab. They are both great compounds and both are highly faked. But this rule works
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Btw how would you rate tbol compared to var? Better strength but less aesthetic positives?
 
CroLifter said:
Btw how would you rate tbol compared to var? Better strength but less aesthetic positives?
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Well, to be honest, I really enjoyed it. Sex drive on it was insane, I took it in the time I got injured with my LCA, I was vascular af, pumps were instant just from doing anything with little weigth and I felt awesome. It really is a perfect fit for athlete, but Anavar is like 10% better.
 
Small update. I noticed for the last 5 days, every workout was a bit better than the last one. I really enjoy this stack and things are heading in the direction that I want. Even tho progress seems slow, everything is lean and I think I'm managing to make it proportional and even. Legs are finaly waking up. Can't wait till tuesday, I'll add Anavar finaly, can't wait for its fullness that it gives to my physique.
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CroLifter said:
I am under impression that thera are 2 opposing schools of thought when it comes to var. Some guys says it is total waste of money, weak and useless yet others highly praise it as a great add on which hardens you up and even gives you some strength gains.

I know that you belong to the latter (since you also recommended it to me).

Damn i guess there is no other way to go about it but to try it and then judge. Some time in the future.
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If youre looking to build actual lean muscle tissue anavar is amazing. If youre looking for glycogen and size there are better compounds. Most guys that say anavar is useless are chasing mass using blow up compounds that slap weight and size on but that doesnt necessarily translate to building lean muscle tissue. Dbol for example will put way more size on than anavar. But at the end of the respective runs I'll take anavar gains all day over dbol. What youre left with in the end is whats actually important and compounds like primobolan, anavar, tbol etc put on quality lean muscle tissue.
 
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