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After workout shake...

FWIW i ONLY use pro/banana/oat for my pre/post WO shakes, and have personally noticed quick a difference in energy levels if nothing else. If i use sugar based PWO formula i feel like **** after (but thats just me)
I also feel that i have been gaining more muscle and less fat because of it, but thats totally subjective
 
DieTrying said:
This rapid phase of muscle glycogen synthesis is characterised by an exercise-induced translocation of glucose transporter carrier protein-4 to the cell surface, leading to an increased permeability of the muscle membrane to glucose.
This sounds a little off. I was under the belief that insulin stimulated Glut4, which is already present in the cell membrane, to transport glucose molecules. I just did a quick search to check. All the info I find backs up the insulin mechanism.
Check this out:
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DieTrying:
Its not about being right or wrong on this one. I just want to get to bottom of this one. My personal diet habits really don't include high GI foods. Actually, since you have brought it to my attention my diet doesn't really include any moderate GI foods either :) . Its just about the whole science of it that I'd like to discuss. PM, e-mail, or post your info backing this theory. No need to have others see this as an arguement when its just the sharing of info.
 
shootmeagain said:
It depends on your situation and goals. If you are looking to reduce bodyfat you're going to want to stay away from dextrose and milk (lactose; milk sugar) in your shakes... though, it can be argued, rightly so, that post-workout could be the only time for such things in a diet.

Actullay milk has a low glycemic index since lactose is a hard sugar to break down but MILK has a high insulin response so it makes it perfect to shuttle in your whey or BCAA post workout without adding CHO like dextrose or malto.

Key to post workout nutrition is to increase the insulin response.
 
DieTrying said:
As I posted above, the insulin spike happens on its own without the need of ingested glucose. Here we go with the studies..

Determinants of post-exercise glycogen synthesis during short-term recovery.

Jentjens R, Jeukendrup A.

Human Performance Laboratory, School of Sport and Exercise Sciences, University of Birmingham, Edgbaston, Birmingham, UK.

The pattern of muscle glycogen synthesis following glycogen-depleting exercise occurs in two phases. Initially, there is a period of rapid synthesis of muscle glycogen that does not require the presence of insulin and lasts about 30-60 minutes. This rapid phase of muscle glycogen synthesis is characterised by an exercise-induced translocation of glucose transporter carrier protein-4 to the cell surface, leading to an increased permeability of the muscle membrane to glucose. Following this rapid phase of glycogen synthesis, muscle glycogen synthesis occurs at a much slower rate and this phase can last for several hours. Both muscle contraction and insulin have been shown to increase the activity of glycogen synthase, the rate-limiting enzyme in glycogen synthesis. Furthermore, it has been shown that muscle glycogen concentration is a potent regulator of glycogen synthase. Low muscle glycogen concentrations following exercise are associated with an increased rate of glucose transport and an increased capacity to convert glucose into glycogen.The highest muscle glycogen synthesis rates have been reported when large amounts of carbohydrate (1.0-1.85 g/kg/h) are consumed immediately post-exercise and at 15-60 minute intervals thereafter, for up to 5 hours post-exercise. When carbohydrate ingestion is delayed by several hours, this may lead to ~50% lower rates of muscle glycogen synthesis. The addition of certain amino acids and/or proteins to a carbohydrate supplement can increase muscle glycogen synthesis rates, most probably because of an enhanced insulin response. However, when carbohydrate intake is high (> or =1.2 g/kg/h) and provided at regular intervals, a further increase in insulin concentrations by additional supplementation of protein and/or amino acids does not further increase the rate of muscle glycogen synthesis. Thus, when carbohydrate intake is insufficient (<1.2 g/kg/h), the addition of certain amino acids and/or proteins may be beneficial for muscle glycogen synthesis. Furthermore, ingestion of insulinotropic protein and/or amino acid mixtures might stimulate post-exercise net muscle protein anabolism. Suggestions have been made that carbohydrate availability is the main limiting factor for glycogen synthesis. A large part of the ingested glucose that enters the bloodstream appears to be extracted by tissues other than the exercise muscle (i.e. liver, other muscle groups or fat tissue) and may therefore limit the amount of glucose available to maximise muscle glycogen synthesis rates. Furthermore, intestinal glucose absorption may also be a rate-limiting factor for muscle glycogen synthesis when large quantities (>1 g/min) of glucose are ingested following exercise.
glycogen replenishment is easy. We want delivery of Amimos into muscle cells first and foremost..correct?
 
USPLabs said:
Actullay milk has a low glycemic index since lactose is a hard sugar to break down but MILK has a high insulin response so it makes it perfect to shuttle in your whey or BCAA post workout without adding CHO like dextrose or malto.

Key to post workout nutrition is to increase the insulin response.

The response IS the GI. The amount is the GL. Either way, its low on all counts.

Key to post workout nutrition is NOT insulin but aminos as that is the substrate for protein synthesis.

Insulin's main action is increasing glut4 by vasodialation, a condition already present post exercise.



Physiological hyperinsulinemia stimulates p70(S6k) phosphorylation in human skeletal muscle.

Hillier T, Long W, Jahn L, Wei L, Barrett EJ.

Department of Internal Medicine, Division of Endocrinology, University of Virginia School of Medicine, Charlottesville, Virginia 22908, USA.

Using tracer methods, insulin stimulates muscle protein synthesis in vitro, an effect not seen in vivo with physiological insulin concentrations in adult animals or humans. To examine the action of physiological hyperinsulinemia on protein synthesis using a tracer-independent method in vivo and identify possible explanations for this discrepancy, we measured the phosphorylation of ribosomal protein S6 kinase (P70(S6k)) and eIF4E-binding protein (eIF4E-BP1), two key proteins that regulate messenger ribonucleic acid translation and protein synthesis. Postabsorptive healthy adults received either a 2-h insulin infusion (1 mU/min.kg; euglycemic insulin clamp; n = 6) or a 2-h saline infusion (n = 5). Vastus lateralis muscle was biopsied at baseline and at the end of the infusion period. Phosphorylation of P70(S6k) and eIF4E-BP1 was quantified on Western blots after SDS-PAGE. Physiological increments in plasma insulin (42 +/- 13 to 366 +/- 36 pmol/L; P: = 0.0002) significantly increased p70(S6k) (P: < 0.01), but did not affect eIF4E-BP1 phosphorylation in muscle. Plasma insulin declined slightly during saline infusion (P: = 0.04), and there was no change in the phosphorylation of either p70(S6k) or eIF4E-BP1. These findings indicate an important role of physiological hyperinsulinemia in the regulation of p70(S6k) in human muscle. This finding is consistent with a potential role for insulin in regulating the synthesis of that subset of proteins involved in ribosomal function. The failure to enhance the phosphorylation of eIF4E-BP1 may in part explain the lack of a stimulatory effect of physiological hyperinsulinemia on bulk protein synthesis in skeletal muscle in vivo.
 
"In another thread a while back, we discussed at length a human study which looked at the effects of insulin infusion, both at reast and post-exercise, on muscle protein synthesis. The bottom line was that insulin infusion increased muscle protein syntheses via its effects on vasodilation, which in turn caused a greater rate of amino acid deliver to muscle tissue under resting conditions.

Post-exercise, when blood flow to muscles was already enhanced, insulin infusion had no further effect on protein synthesis. Thus, the idea that insulin spikes are anabolic in during post-workout conditions appears to be a myth, although there is still room for the anti-catabolic effects of insulin in the post workout state; however, the real-world significance of this for weight trainers is questionable.

More important for anabolism would seem to be a high level of circulating amino acids both during the workout and post-workout, in addition to a high level of blood flow to the muscles."
 
Obviously BCAA's are the MOST important factor PWO. So my question is, on a day when doing 20-25 mins low intensity cardio following weight training, would it be best to take BCAA's pre-cardio or after? Typically I take BCAA's after the cardio, and then have a shake about 20 mins. later (after driving home). Would it be better to have the BCAA's pre-cardio, and then the shake about 40 mins. after that (20 min cardio, 20 min drive)?
 
DieTrying said:
No I know you didn't say coke, I was just giving an example. You do realize that skim milk and yogurt are extremely low-GI (yogurt especially). Maybe thats why you're results are so good. :lol:
skim milk has a low GI but a high insulin response..
 
natedogg said:
Instead of arguing, you can give both methods a try. Once you've done so, make a decision on what works best for you. You won't really know until you try it. Am I right.
Nate do that...

list both methods..
 
USPLabs said:
skim milk has a low GI but a high insulin response..

(sigh) You're killing me bro..

No, it doesn't.

Its GI ang GL are both low.
 
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Its not the fat content either so stick with skim milk.
 
shootmeagain said:
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:clap2: Nice Links, thanks.
 
323mattb said:
Obviously BCAA's are the MOST important factor PWO. So my question is, on a day when doing 20-25 mins low intensity cardio following weight training, would it be best to take BCAA's pre-cardio or after? Typically I take BCAA's after the cardio, and then have a shake about 20 mins. later (after driving home). Would it be better to have the BCAA's pre-cardio, and then the shake about 40 mins. after that (20 min cardio, 20 min drive)?
Anyone have an idea on this? I'm sure it doesn't make a huge difference and I've been fine with my results so far, but why not do what is optimal? BCAA's pre or post cardio?
 
323mattb said:
Anyone have an idea on this? I'm sure it doesn't make a huge difference and I've been fine with my results so far, but why not do what is optimal? BCAA's pre or post cardio?

You could do both. Depending on what type/intensity/duration of cardio you're doing, some activities are more catabolic than others. You could just fit your pre and post cardio meals in as part of your calories for the day.
 
USPLabs said:
Hmmm...you sure?


Yes, as the links shows.


People who claim that skim milk has a high insulin respons are basing it on a study that used Swedish Milk that had a GI of 4. So even though tht study said the response was 4 times more than once previous though, the respons is still low.

Any protein will have insulingenic properties due to its AA content, but its still relatively low compared to most forms of carboyhdrates.
 
I should never debate with a clown:}

Bobo, your plan is working to perfection!
 
;)


Email with an update when you get a chance.
 
I just modified it a bit using the pre/post workout combo with my morning cardio/sprints since the intensity is fairly high. Bobo is a mad scientist clown that can be hired for birthday parties showcasing his ever famous syringe tricks.

Since we are on the topic, You advocate BCAA but whats your take on whey hydrosolate instead of concentrate postworkout?
 
Guys who recommend fat-free milkshakes for post-workout do you have any specific recommendations? Also do you buy a powder and mix it yourself or do you buy ready to drink milkshakes?

I live in the UK and am having difficulty finding a skim milk flavoured drink.

Edit: Sorry to trouble you with another question but how does this look as a workout nutrition plan:

1.5 hours before workout: A low-gi carb (some oats etc) + a protein source (chicken or tuna etc)

20mins before: Whey hydrosylate (or whey isolate as bulk powder whey hydrosylate seems very difficult to find in the UK) with a very small amount of dextrose

Immediately after: Milk based product to provide whey + casein and low GI carbs (Are there any recommendations for amount of protein and carbs one should aim for? Tipton seems to find sufficient hyperaminoacidemia occuring with only about 6-9g of EAA whie people on bb.com throw around figures of something like 0.4g of protein/kg bw.)

1 hour later: Normal meal (low gi + lean protein with a small amount of fat)

I would hope this would promote maximal protein synthesis and also a slight reduction in fatigue from the carb intake immediately before the workout (possibly that benefit may be seen more if the carbs were ingested during exercise?)

This is mainly based on Tipton's research and the interesting info on here. Any advice and comments are greatly appreciated.
 
DieTrying said:
There is no need for trying to drink a 'fast' carb source. Aminos yes, but carbs no. I suggest you check out the sticky from old threads. This has been beaten to death.
I used to think think this too. Until I saw this.

Invalid Link Removed

Sports Med. 1991 Apr;11(4):232-43. Related Articles, Links

Regulation of glycogen resynthesis following exercise. Dietary considerations.

Friedman JE, Neufer PD, Dohm GL.

Department of Biochemistry, School of Medicine, East Carolina University, Greenville, North Carolina.

With the cessation of exercise, glycogen repletion begins to take place rapidly in skeletal muscle and can result in glycogen levels higher than those present before exercise. Understanding the rate-limiting steps that regulate glycogen synthesis will provide us with strategies to increase the resynthesis of glycogen during recovery from exercise, and thus improve performance. Given the importance of muscle glycogen to endurance performance, various factors which may optimise glycogen resynthesis rate and insure complete restoration have been of interest to both the scientist and athlete. The time required for complete muscle glycogen resynthesis after prolonged moderate intensity exercise is generally considered to be 24 hours provided approximately 500 to 700g of carbohydrate is ingested. Muscle glycogen synthesis rate is highest during the first 2 hours after exercise. Ingestion of 0.70g glucose/kg bodyweight every 2 hours appears to maximise glycogen resynthesis rate at approximately 5 to 6 mumol/g wet weight/h during the first 4 to 6 hours after exhaustive exercise. Further enhancement of glycogen resynthesis rate with ingestion of greater than 0.70g glucose/kg bodyweight appears to be limited by the constraints imposed by gastric emptying. Ingestion of glucose or sucrose results in similar muscle glycogen resynthesis rates while glycogen synthesis in liver is better served with the ingestion of fructose. Also, increases in muscle glycogen content during the first 4 to 6 hours after exercise are greater with ingestion of simple as compared with complex carbohydrate. Glycogen synthase activity is a key component in the regulation of glycogen resynthesis. Glycogen synthase enzyme exists in 2 states: the less active, more phosphorylated (D) form which is under allosteric control of glucose-6-phosphate, and the more active, less phosphorylated (I) form which is independent of glucose-6-phosphate. There is generally an inverse relationship between glycogen content in muscle and the percentage synthase in the activated (I) form. Exercise and insulin by themselves activate glycogen synthase by conversion to glycogen synthase I. Although small changes in the activity ratio (% I form) can lead to large changes in the rate of glycogen synthesis, glycogen synthase I appears to increase very little (approximately 25%) in response to glycogen depletion and returns to pre-exercise levels as glycogen levels return to normal. Thus glycogen resynthesis, which may increase 3- to 5-fold, may also be influenced by glucose-6-phosphate, which can activate glycogen synthase in the D form.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 400 WORDS)
 
shootmeagain said:
It depends on your situation and goals. If you are looking to reduce bodyfat you're going to want to stay away from dextrose and milk (lactose; milk sugar) in your shakes... though, it can be argued, rightly so, that post-workout could be the only time for such things in a diet.

Oats can be a good option post-workout too, as someone mentioned, however, if you are trying to get the 'fast' protein/carb shake, oats don't fit that bill. I'd rather take in my whey isolate, for example, right after training and then, about an hour later, have a meal with oats as the carb source.

There are many ways to approach it. Some are better than others depending on what you are doing diet and training wise, where you are and what your goals are, etc.

You can certainly start this idea of saving money and being control of the protein/carb ratio by buying bulk protein.
I tried to argue the point of repeated insulin spike, making you insulin resistant. 2 people that compete showed me there photos and they were ripped. They said they followed fast carbs pwo. :(

Edit : So basically I was cornered.
 
Ghosting said:
I used to think think this too. Until I saw this.

Invalid Link Removed

Sports Med. 1991 Apr;11(4):232-43. Related Articles, Links

Regulation of glycogen resynthesis following exercise. Dietary considerations.

Friedman JE, Neufer PD, Dohm GL.

Department of Biochemistry, School of Medicine, East Carolina University, Greenville, North Carolina.

With the cessation of exercise, glycogen repletion begins to take place rapidly in skeletal muscle and can result in glycogen levels higher than those present before exercise. Understanding the rate-limiting steps that regulate glycogen synthesis will provide us with strategies to increase the resynthesis of glycogen during recovery from exercise, and thus improve performance. Given the importance of muscle glycogen to endurance performance, various factors which may optimise glycogen resynthesis rate and insure complete restoration have been of interest to both the scientist and athlete. The time required for complete muscle glycogen resynthesis after prolonged moderate intensity exercise is generally considered to be 24 hours provided approximately 500 to 700g of carbohydrate is ingested. Muscle glycogen synthesis rate is highest during the first 2 hours after exercise. Ingestion of 0.70g glucose/kg bodyweight every 2 hours appears to maximise glycogen resynthesis rate at approximately 5 to 6 mumol/g wet weight/h during the first 4 to 6 hours after exhaustive exercise. Further enhancement of glycogen resynthesis rate with ingestion of greater than 0.70g glucose/kg bodyweight appears to be limited by the constraints imposed by gastric emptying. Ingestion of glucose or sucrose results in similar muscle glycogen resynthesis rates while glycogen synthesis in liver is better served with the ingestion of fructose. Also, increases in muscle glycogen content during the first 4 to 6 hours after exercise are greater with ingestion of simple as compared with complex carbohydrate. Glycogen synthase activity is a key component in the regulation of glycogen resynthesis. Glycogen synthase enzyme exists in 2 states: the less active, more phosphorylated (D) form which is under allosteric control of glucose-6-phosphate, and the more active, less phosphorylated (I) form which is independent of glucose-6-phosphate. There is generally an inverse relationship between glycogen content in muscle and the percentage synthase in the activated (I) form. Exercise and insulin by themselves activate glycogen synthase by conversion to glycogen synthase I. Although small changes in the activity ratio (% I form) can lead to large changes in the rate of glycogen synthesis, glycogen synthase I appears to increase very little (approximately 25%) in response to glycogen depletion and returns to pre-exercise levels as glycogen levels return to normal. Thus glycogen resynthesis, which may increase 3- to 5-fold, may also be influenced by glucose-6-phosphate, which can activate glycogen synthase in the D form.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 400 WORDS)



Increasing muscle glycogen faster does not equalt faster protein synthesis rate.

Then you can read this:


Determinants of post-exercise glycogen synthesis during short-term recovery.

Jentjens R, Jeukendrup A.

Human Performance Laboratory, School of Sport and Exercise Sciences, University of Birmingham, Edgbaston, Birmingham, UK.

The pattern of muscle glycogen synthesis following glycogen-depleting exercise occurs in two phases. Initially, there is a period of rapid synthesis of muscle glycogen that does not require the presence of insulin and lasts about 30-60 minutes. This rapid phase of muscle glycogen synthesis is characterised by an exercise-induced translocation of glucose transporter carrier protein-4 to the cell surface, leading to an increased permeability of the muscle membrane to glucose. Following this rapid phase of glycogen synthesis, muscle glycogen synthesis occurs at a much slower rate and this phase can last for several hours. Both muscle contraction and insulin have been shown to increase the activity of glycogen synthase, the rate-limiting enzyme in glycogen synthesis. Furthermore, it has been shown that muscle glycogen concentration is a potent regulator of glycogen synthase. Low muscle glycogen concentrations following exercise are associated with an increased rate of glucose transport and an increased capacity to convert glucose into glycogen.The highest muscle glycogen synthesis rates have been reported when large amounts of carbohydrate (1.0-1.85 g/kg/h) are consumed immediately post-exercise and at 15-60 minute intervals thereafter, for up to 5 hours post-exercise. When carbohydrate ingestion is delayed by several hours, this may lead to ~50% lower rates of muscle glycogen synthesis. The addition of certain amino acids and/or proteins to a carbohydrate supplement can increase muscle glycogen synthesis rates, most probably because of an enhanced insulin response. However, when carbohydrate intake is high (>/=1.2 g/kg/h) and provided at regular intervals, a further increase in insulin concentrations by additional supplementation of protein and/or amino acids does not further increase the rate of muscle glycogen synthesis. Thus, when carbohydrate intake is insufficient (<1.2 g/kg/h), the addition of certain amino acids and/or proteins may be beneficial for muscle glycogen synthesis. Furthermore, ingestion of insulinotropic protein and/or amino acid mixtures might stimulate post-exercise net muscle protein anabolism. Suggestions have been made that carbohydrate availability is the main limiting factor for glycogen synthesis. A large part of the ingested glucose that enters the bloodstream appears to be extracted by tissues other than the exercise muscle (i.e. liver, other muscle groups or fat tissue) and may therefore limit the amount of glucose available to maximise muscle glycogen synthesis rates. Furthermore, intestinal glucose absorption may also be a rate-limiting factor for muscle glycogen synthesis when large quantities (>1 g/min) of glucose are ingested following exercise.


THen when you get done reading that you will understand that the carbohydrate isn't the answer, amino's are and that glycogen synthesis rate are the same regardless.


Carbohydrate nutrition before, during, and after exercise.

Costill DL.

The role of dietary carbohydrates (CHO) in the resynthesis of muscle and liver glycogen after prolonged, exhaustive exercise has been clearly demonstrated. The mechanisms responsible for optimal glycogen storage are linked to the activation of glycogen synthetase by depletion of glycogen and the subsequent intake of CHO. Although diets rich in CHO may increase the muscle glycogen stores and enhance endurance exercise performance when consumed in the days before the activity, they also increase the rate of CHO oxidation and the use of muscle glycogen. When consumed in the last hour before exercise, the insulin stimulated-uptake of glucose from blood often results in hypoglycemia, greater dependence on muscle glycogen, and an earlier onset of exhaustion than when no CHO is fed. Ingesting CHO during exercise appears to be of minimal value to performance except in events lasting 2 h or longer. The form of CHO (i.e., glucose, fructose, sucrose) ingested may produce different blood glucose and insulin responses, but the rate of muscle glycogen resynthesis is about the same regardless of the structure.


Then when you are done reading that you will understand that its NOT about muscle glycogen, its about the rate of protein sythesis and then you will read these.


Amino acids stimulate translation initiation and protein synthesis through an Akt-independent pathway in human skeletal muscle.

Liu Z, Jahn LA, Wei L, Long W, Barrett EJ.

Division of Endocrinology and Metabolism, Department of Internal Medicine, University of Virginia Health Sciences Center, Charlottesville, Virginia 22908, USA. [email protected]

Studies in vitro as well as in vivo in rodents have suggested that amino acids (AA) not only serve as substrates for protein synthesis, but also as nutrient signals to enhance mRNA translation and protein synthesis in skeletal muscle. However, the physiological relevance of these findings to normal humans is uncertain. To examine whether AA regulate the protein synthetic apparatus in human skeletal muscle, we infused an AA mixture (10% Travesol) systemically into 10 young healthy male volunteers for 6 h. Forearm muscle protein synthesis and degradation (phenylalanine tracer method) and the phosphorylation of protein kinase B (or Akt), eukaryotic initiation factor 4E-binding protein 1, and ribosomal protein S6 kinase (p70(S6K)) in vastus lateralis muscle were measured before and after AA infusion. We also examined whether AA affect urinary nitrogen excretion and whole body protein turnover. Postabsorptively all subjects had negative forearm phenylalanine balances. AA infusion significantly improved the net phenylalanine balance at both 3 h (P < 0.002) and 6 h (P < 0.02). This improvement in phenylalanine balance was solely from increased protein synthesis (P = 0.02 at 3 h and P < 0.003 at 6 h), as protein degradation was not changed. AA also significantly decreased whole body phenylalanine flux (P < 0.004). AA did not activate Akt phosphorylation at Ser(473), but significantly increased the phosphorylation of both eukaryotic initiation factor 4E-binding protein 1 (P < 0.04) and p70(S6K) (P < 0.001). We conclude that AA act directly as nutrient signals to stimulate protein synthesis through Akt-independent activation of the protein synthetic apparatus in human skeletal muscle.


Physiological hyperinsulinemia stimulates p70(S6k) phosphorylation in human skeletal muscle.

Hillier T, Long W, Jahn L, Wei L, Barrett EJ.

Department of Internal Medicine, Division of Endocrinology, University of Virginia School of Medicine, Charlottesville, Virginia 22908, USA.

Using tracer methods, insulin stimulates muscle protein synthesis in vitro, an effect not seen in vivo with physiological insulin concentrations in adult animals or humans. To examine the action of physiological hyperinsulinemia on protein synthesis using a tracer-independent method in vivo and identify possible explanations for this discrepancy, we measured the phosphorylation of ribosomal protein S6 kinase (P70(S6k)) and eIF4E-binding protein (eIF4E-BP1), two key proteins that regulate messenger ribonucleic acid translation and protein synthesis. Postabsorptive healthy adults received either a 2-h insulin infusion (1 mU/min.kg; euglycemic insulin clamp; n = 6) or a 2-h saline infusion (n = 5). Vastus lateralis muscle was biopsied at baseline and at the end of the infusion period. Phosphorylation of P70(S6k) and eIF4E-BP1 was quantified on Western blots after SDS-PAGE. Physiological increments in plasma insulin (42 +/- 13 to 366 +/- 36 pmol/L; P: = 0.0002) significantly increased p70(S6k) (P: < 0.01), but did not affect eIF4E-BP1 phosphorylation in muscle. Plasma insulin declined slightly during saline infusion (P: = 0.04), and there was no change in the phosphorylation of either p70(S6k) or eIF4E-BP1. These findings indicate an important role of physiological hyperinsulinemia in the regulation of p70(S6k) in human muscle. This finding is consistent with a potential role for insulin in regulating the synthesis of that subset of proteins involved in ribosomal function. The failure to enhance the phosphorylation of eIF4E-BP1 may in part explain the lack of a stimulatory effect of physiological hyperinsulinemia on bulk protein synthesis in skeletal muscle in vivo.



Little more research goes a long way :)
 
Ghosting said:
I tried to argue the point of repeated insulin spike, making you insulin resistant. 2 people that compete showed me there photos and they were ripped. They said they followed fast carbs pwo. :(

Edit : So basically I was cornered.

Well then you can tell them they can get the same results without using a high GI source and actually accumulate the same amount of LBM during the offseason with LESS FAT.
 
I was quick to submit. :) Thanks for tunring me back in the right direction, I was in over my head talking about PWO and a few people started gangbanging me about the importance of fast carbs post workout, despite my link to the huge thread you posted in about the impotance of AA and complex carbs post workout. *if I had Bobos brain, I could have won that debate*
 
Bobo said:
Well then you can tell them they can get the same results without using a high GI source and actually accumulate the same amount of LBM during the offseason with LESS FAT.
I cant go back there until I "chat" with one of the mods. Its at Ironmass.com, if you want the truth to get out, and Powerman2000 was leading the crusade against me. I like P-man2000, but I didnt know what to say.
 
Thank you Bobo, that was a seriously awesome post.

Edit : the big one with the studies
 
TheCrownedOne said:
If you really want a large surge of insulin PWO, why not go with a large dose of Leucine?
So would adding a moderate to large dose of Leucine PWO be overkill if you already use 300mg R-ALA and 200mcg Chromium?
 
Thanks for clearing up alot of questions I had about PWO shakes. You guys kick some major butt, especially you Bobo.:box:
 
Hi Bobo,

I was reading abt your post workout shake reccoemndations. Just curious.Thugh there is no increase in protein synthesis, dont you think the spike in insulin will lower protein breakdown?

Thanks
anoop
 
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