Activate Xtreme vs. Diesel Test Hardcore

Pick.... your..... weapon....

  • Activate Xtreme

    Votes: 79 63.2%

  • Diesel Test Hardcore

    Votes: 46 36.8%
  • Total voters
    125
As posted in the other thread. There are plenty of studies in humans. As there are with tribulus, Chuck just choose's to ignore them.

Chrubasik JE, Roufogalis BD, Wagner H, Chrubasik S. A comprehensive review on the stinging nettle effect and efficacy profiles. Part II: urticae radix. Phytomed. Aug 2007;14(7-8):568-579.

In this systematic review, the authors examine the evidence on the effects and efficacy of stinging nettle root extract preparations in the treatment of benign prostate hyperplasia (BPH). The authors have systematically searched Medline via Pubmed through July 2006 for controlled and uncontrolled clinical trials and pre-clinical studies on stinging nettle root preparations and BPH. Contact with experts, hand searches through the authors' own files, and bibliographies from all included papers were searched for additional publications. Studies on preparations made from multi-plant mixtures were excluded from the review.

Stinging nettle root preparations have been used in European folk medicine for urinary tract complaints for many years. Germany's Commission E recommends 4-6 g/day of stinging nettle root (Urtica dioica, U. urens) preparations in the treatment of "Difficulty in urination in benign prostatic hyperplasia stages 1 and 2."1 Studies on stinging nettle root use daily doses of 4-6 g/day of the infusion, 300-600 mg (DER [drug-extract ratio] 7-14:1, solvent- 20% methanol) to 378-756 mg (DER 12-16:1, solvent- 70% ethanol) of the dried native stinging nettle extracts, and 4.5-7.5 ml (DER 1:1, solvent- 45% ethanol) or 15 ml (DER 1:5, solvent- 40% ethanol) of the fluid extracts. The active constituents include phytosterols, lignans, polysaccharides, and the lectin UDA (Urtica dioica agglutinine).

Published clinical research on stinging nettle root extract and BPH date back to 1950, but there are very few double-blind randomized controlled clinical trials. A case report from 1950 describes a beneficial effect of stinging nettle root tea. A total of 40,000 men with BPH have been treated with stinging nettle root preparations in 34 clinical trials. Of these 34 clinical trials, 24 are open and uncontrolled, 2 are open and controlled, and 6 are randomized placebo-controlled clinical trials. Only 1 of the 6 randomized placebo-controlled clinical trials includes a hypothesis. All of the clinical trials have examined methanolic stinging nettle root extracts.

Two double-blind human pharmacological studies have shown that stinging nettle root extract BAZ (1,200 mg/day) decreases levels of sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG), compared with placebo. Two studies on stinging nettle root extracts demonstrated conflicting results on its hormonal effects. One showed an increase in levels of testosterone, 5-alpha-dehydroxytestosterone, and estradiol over seven months of treatment. Conversely, a 9-week trial on the BAZ extract (600 mg/day) showed no difference in levels of testosterone, androstandiol, and acid phosphatase. Open uncontrolled clinical trials provide conflicting evidence on the effects of stinging nettle root extract on sex hormones, and more research is needed. Human pharmacological studies have also examined the effect of stinging nettle root extract on prostate cell proliferation with inconclusive results. Nine weeks of treatment with BAZ (600 mg/day) resulted in treatment-induced glandular cell death and reactive inflammation. Twenty weeks of BAZ extract treatment (1,200 mg/day) resulted in reduced prostate cell metabolism. After six months of BAZ treatment (1,200 mg/day), the volume density of cytoplasmic secretion granula increased and the volume density of lysosomes decreased. These results suggest decreasing autophagy and increasing secretion of glandular cells. An additional study showed "an increase in the proportion of large-volume nuclei." After one year of treatment, stinging nettle root constituents or their metabolites are detectable in glandular cells, compared to controls. Stinging nettle constituents are not found following incubation of BPH tissue with stinging nettle extract. More research is needed on the possible effect of stinging nettle root extract on prostate cell growth.

All together, these clinical trials provide "some evidence of effectiveness of methanolic nettle root extracts in improving BPH complaints in the short-term; however, in order to calculate the effect size, more rigorous data are necessary." Future clinical trials should take into consideration the suggestions of the World Health Organization International Consultation on BPH and the consensus index (International Prostate Symptom Score). These authors write that more rigorous clinical research is needed "before nettle root extract may be considered in the BPH treatment guidelines." The clinical importance of pure stinging nettle root extract in the treatment of BPH has decreased because the combination of stinging nettle root and saw palmetto (Serenoa repens) extract are more effective. So, fewer studies are being conducted on stinging nettle root extract alone. There are a total of 699 adverse events for stinging nettle root; however, the numbers of adverse events may be higher because many studies did not report adverse events. The most common adverse effects are impotence and decreased libido. The majority of studies were conducted with a 20% methanolic extract. They indicate that this extract has a good short-term safety profile. Trials with longer treatment periods are needed to establish long-term safety; however short-term treatment is safe and associated with low toxicity levels.

In vitro experiments have provided insight into possible mechanisms of action for the effect of stinging nettle root extracts on BPH. An aqueous stinging nettle root extract inhibited SHBG binding to human prostatic membrane receptors. Isolated polar lignans, including secoisolariciresinol, interfered with SHBG binding to steroids, probably through competitive inhibition. Structurally, "a low polarity in the aliphatic part and a 3-methoxy-4-hydroxy substitution pattern in the aromatic part resulted in higher binding affinity for SHBG." Constituents of stinging nettle root displaced free steroid hormones from their SHBG binding sites and prevented the interaction of SHBG with prostate receptors. More research is needed to establish which constituents are responsible for these effects.

In addition, research suggests that stinging nettle root extract "interferes with the conversion of testosterone into estrogens." Ethanolic stinging nettle root extract WS1031 (W. Schwabe Pharmaceuticals, Karlsruhe, Germany) inhibited the aromatization of androstenedione in vitro, and this effect has been attributed to lipophilic constituents. The addition of saw palmetto berry extract, used in the treatment of symptoms related to BPH, increased this effect. Ethanolic stinging nettle extract LI 166 (Lichtwer Pharma, Berlin, Germany) and a methanolic extract also inhibited aromatase. The activity of the methanolic extract increased with the addition of an extract made from the bark of the African prune (Pygeum africanum). Stinging nettle root extracts from a variety of producers inhibited aromatase. Aqueous stinging nettle root extract BNO 1250 (Bionorica, Neumarkdt, Germany) inhibited estradiol formation in a time- and dose-dependent manner. Common fatty acids, (10E, 12Z)-9-hydroxy-10,12-octadecadienoic acid, and other lignans are some of the constituents responsible for this effect. However, stinging nettle root contains only low levels of these constituents. Therefore, other active constituents remain to be identified. In addition to inhibiting aromatase, stinging nettle root extract may also inhibit aromatase gene expression.

In vitro evidence shows an anti-inflammatory effect for stinging nettle extracts. Ethanolic stinging nettle root extract WS1031 inhibited bovine leukocyte elastase. Methanolic stinging nettle root extract BAZ inhibited the alternative pathway of complement activation. A polysaccharide fraction and isolated nettle root polysaccharides, including rhamnogalacturanes, also inhibited complement activation. The commercial stinging nettle extract Bazoton(r) (Kanoldt Arzneimittel GmbH, Germany) contains 1.7% polysaccharides, which could exert an anti-inflammatory effect.

Cultured fibroblasts from the rat ventral prostate are used to screen for prostatotrophic compounds in vitro, and stinging nettle root extracts demonstrated activity. Nettle root extract BAZ (0.01%) reduced the proliferation of prostatic stromal fibroblasts by 50%. Fractions of methanolic BAZ extract reduced proliferation to various degrees, possibly through an androgen-independent mechanism of action. Conversely, another study on the methanolic BAZ extract showed a significant concentration- and time-dependent anti-proliferative effect on epithelial cells, but not stromal cells. The effect is attributed to a polysaccharide fraction. When cells from normal and BPH biopsies were incubated with the methanolic BAZ nettle extract, prostate metabolism was not affected and homogenous granules decreased. The stinging nettle root lectin UDA inhibited the binding of epithelial growth factor (EGF) to its receptor. This effect is antagonized by the oligosaccharide chitotriose, which has an affinity for the EGF receptor site. Another study showed that stinging nettle root extracts "may suppress prostate cell metabolism and growth by interaction with prostate steroid membrane receptors." Therefore, further research is needed on the effect of stinging nettle root extract on prostate cell growth.

In vivo studies provide further information. One in vivo study showed that stinging nettle root extract may exert an anti-inflammatory effect. Stinging nettle root extract LI 166 and its polysaccharide fraction showed an anti-inflammatory effect in the carageenin-induced rat paw edema test. More research is needed to determine if this anti-inflammatory effect translates to an anti-prostatic effect. The stinging nettle root extract BAZ reduced prostate size and serum testosterone levels in dogs. Hecogenin acetate is one of the active constituents.
 
Chuck Diesel said:
After pages of you saying a test booster should be a test booster not a libido booster, your really posting a quote from someone saying Actx is the best libido product they have ever used......and they guy has never used DIESEL TEST Hardcore?
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In an earlier post YOU were the one who said DT was basically the same as DTH. I dont write other peoples reviews, I just read it, copied and pasted. They can write whatever they like and his response is ACTX is better.
 
Designer Supps said:
In an earlier post YOU were the one who said DT was basically the same as DTH. I dont write other peoples reviews, I just read it, copied and pasted. They can write whatever they like and his response is ACTX is better.
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I said as a test booster they were basically the same because the ingredients in DT that were responsible for increasing testosterone are in the same or higher doses in DTH. The problem with DIESEL TEST is that it use to reduce users libido from the rise in free test. That was always a problem with the original DT. The first DT would increase total and free test but LH would drop.

It still is funny you posted a comment on Actx as a libido booster considering what you have said in this thread.
 
Designer Supps said:
As posted in the other thread. There are plenty of studies in humans. As there are with tribulus, Chuck just choose's to ignore them.

Chrubasik JE, Roufogalis BD, Wagner H, Chrubasik S. A comprehensive review on the stinging nettle effect and efficacy profiles. Part II: urticae radix. Phytomed. Aug 2007;14(7-8):568-579.

In this systematic review, the authors examine the evidence on the effects and efficacy of stinging nettle root extract preparations in the treatment of benign prostate hyperplasia (BPH). The authors have systematically searched Medline via Pubmed through July 2006 for controlled and uncontrolled clinical trials and pre-clinical studies on stinging nettle root preparations and BPH. ...............
Stinging nettle root preparations have been used in European folk medicine for urinary tract complaints for many years. Germany's Commission E recommends 4-6 g/day of stinging nettle root (Urtica dioica, U. urens) .
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This has nothing to do with nettle standardized for 3,4-Divanillyltetrahydrofuran.

European Nettle is standardized for Beta Sitosterol and something called scopoletine (or something like that) which is why its used for BPH. Same reason why the use Saw Palmetto for BPH, its beta sitosterol content, not 3,4-Divanillyltetrahydrofuran.
 
Designer Supps said:
There are a total of 699 adverse events for stinging nettle root; however, the numbers of adverse events may be higher because many studies did not report adverse events. The most common adverse effects are impotence and decreased libido..
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you saying your nettle extract will do this also?
 
Chuck Diesel said:
I said as a test booster they were basically the same because the ingredients in DT that were responsible for increasing testosterone are in the same or higher doses in DTH. The problem with DIESEL TEST is that it use to reduce users libido from the rise in free test. That was always a problem with the original DT. The first DT would increase total and free test but LH would drop.

It still is funny you posted a comment on Actx as a libido booster considering what you have said in this thread.
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What Ive said in this thread is that the only science to support the use of your product is as a sex enhancer, aphrodisiac.

So they were the same then but now that I posted exactly what you asked for they arent the same. Keep trying to change the story Chuck, it doesnt matter because everyone sees what you are failing to do.

If you read that users whole log youll find out his results match exactly to the science, to the write up, to the blood work and to what I claim the product will do.

Its getting very old having to repeat myself over and over to you because you refuse to respond intelligently when I answer your questions. Since you havent answered any of mine or anyone elses in this thread Ill just stop asking. We all know the answer anyway.
 
Chuck Diesel said:
This has nothing to do with nettle standardized for 3,4-Divanillyltetrahydrofuran.

European Nettle is standardized for Beta Sitosterol and something called scopoletine (or something like that) which is why its used for BPH. Same reason why the use Saw Palmetto for BPH, its beta sitosterol content, not 3,4-Divanillyltetrahydrofuran.
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You are so predictable. You want to compare Tribulus as a whole but you dont want to compare Nettle as a whole. Funny how that is. When you get a 95% extract of Tribulus and you post ANY in vivo or in vitro info about it, Ill be happy to post all the studies on the Divanil extract.

You asked for studies, you got them. You asked for bloodwork, you got them. You asked for ANY users' quote to say they choose ACTX over DTH/DT, you got them.

You have yet to answer a single question by anyone in this entire thread when it comes to your product.
 
Designer Supps said:
Not mine because I have a 95% extract for Divanil. But since you cant even spell it, I can see why you would have such a hard time understand all of the info presented to you.
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well why post the studies as test done on humans and its its not the same extract you use?
 
Designer Supps said:
You are so predictable. You want to compare Tribulus as a whole but you dont want to compare Nettle as a whole. Funny how that is. When you get a 95% extract of Tribulus and you post ANY in vivo or in vitro info about it, Ill be happy to post all the studies on the Divanil extract.

You asked for studies, you got them. You asked for bloodwork, you got them. You asked for ANY users' quote to say they choose ACTX over DTH/DT, you got them.

You have yet to answer a single question by anyone in this entire thread when it comes to your product.
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Im not comparing anything as a whole. I said there were no human studies done on Divanil and you posted whole herb nettle extact studies like "look these were done on humans."

Then when I say well those studies say this:

There are a total of 699 adverse events for stinging nettle root; however, the numbers of adverse events may be higher because many studies did not report adverse events. The most common adverse effects are impotence and decreased libido..

You say, "0h thats not the case with the nette we use because the nettle we use is 95% 3,4-Divanillyltetrahydrofuran".....ok so what was the reason for posting the studies?

I dont use a 95% extract of tribulus standardized for one active so what are you talking about?

What does me knowing how to spell a word you mad up to describe an active in a plant that already has a name have to do with or any relation to me not know how to understand information presented to me.

Anyway I did the post on lets look for testers who will get lab work done, Im getting testers who just finished Actx to log and compare it to DTH like I did last year so thats that.

I didnt say "show me the science on 3,4-Divanillyltetrahydrofuran." I said there are no published studies on its use in vivo. No mice, rat, human, primate etc. studies. So its a little crazy that you are saying there are no human studies on tribulus that show increase in test, but there are test that show increase in testosterone for tribulus in mice, primates and rabbits....when there are no studies published period on 3,4-Divanillyltetrahydrofuran in anything living that show an increase in free test. Im just saying for the "show me the sciece" side of things.

I dont really care about the "science" or pubmed info on actx. People either respond to the product or not.
 
nunes said:
seems like you have been going to wikipedia in these few hours, man , get lost, you arrive here in these forum with posts that don't fit in the discussion and now you`re trying to get trouble, no more discussion with you, I only like to speak with people that teach me something or want my advise or have a minimal IQ, you don't fit on these profiles so speak to the walls cause I`ll not answer to your stupid posts again...
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:wave: and take your childish 1st grader insults with you!!!
 
There's been some interesting info in this thread.

I apologize for going off topic here but Designer Supps is Matt(Sldge), right?
 
We got an company owner, and a rep chewing each other out. Classic!
We are fighting one another, rather than working together like adults to figure this one out.
Reps for starting a big fight!
 
Whats interesting is that if you really dig thru it, they each have at one time or another proved each others points. I think it really is a tossup, both have good science behind them (whether or not chuck discloses all the details and proportions) and both have good positive ergogenic real world results from unbiased users.
 
I've read some of it, but not all 10 pages worth.
Full Disclosure:
I have used a few bottles of Diesel Test, and to date it's my fave test booster, after trying about 5 or 6 others. I'm taking Mass FX right now, and am quite pleased so far, but I'm only a week into it. I have not tried ACTX yet.
 
Gtarzan81 said:
I've read some of it, but not all 10 pages worth.
Full Disclosure:
I have used a few bottles of Diesel Test, and to date it's my fave test booster, after trying about 5 or 6 others. I'm taking Mass FX right now, and am quite pleased so far, but I'm only a week into it. I have not tried ACTX yet.
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It's your favorite based on what results?

Note- I haven't used either one. This is just a question as an interested consumer.
 
rpen22 said:
It's your favorite based on what results?

Note- I haven't used either one. This is just a question as an interested consumer.
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Too early for a full compare. DTH is very good. I'll let you know in a few weeks about the Mass FX. Their both strong contenders at this point.
 
Let me say that I would rather have the cheapest placebo gains I can get. True, its comforting to see some science behind things, but regardless it always doens't hold water. How many times have things been proven then disapproven?

just like different creatines- all proven as creatine but how many different cases of people responding or not responding to certain types? gobs.

I just recently read where I3C was also pretty much worthless in humans and I see it in AX, whats up with that?
 
Gtarzan81 said:
Too early for a full compare. DTH is very good. I'll let you know in a few weeks about the Mass FX. Their both strong contenders at this point.
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I didn't necessarily mean between DTH and the others, but what results did you get from DTH that made you like it?
 
Fabulous One said:
Let me say that I would rather have the cheapest placebo gains I can get. True, its comforting to see some science behind things, but regardless it always doens't hold water. How many times have things been proven then disapproven?

just like different creatines- all proven as creatine but how many different cases of people responding or not responding to certain types? gobs.

I just recently read where I3C was also pretty much worthless in humans and I see it in AX, whats up with that?
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Where did you see that? The science behind it and its use for improving the conversion to healthy estrogen is very solid. Bloodwork backs up the science.
 
Designer Supps said:
Where did you see that? The science behind it and its use for improving the conversion to healthy estrogen is very solid. Bloodwork backs up the science.
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I can't remember...something about it not working like they thought it did. Man I wish I could remember where I read that. It was talking about a new "study".
 
Chuck and DS should fight in the AM parking lot. That would settle this whole issue for me cause right now I love both products.:dl:
 
nunes said:
DS, how many mgs of divanil exists on a single capsule of actvxt?
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Unfortuneately I cant reveal the amount, its propreitary when it comes to mg amounts in this formula. But there is a specific dosing range where Divanil was found to be ideal and its in that exact range.
 
Fabulous One said:
I can't remember...something about it not working like they thought it did. Man I wish I could remember where I read that. It was talking about a new "study".
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Ive seen a couple "studies" which arent really studies done by people who have a vested interest in selling DIM (one of I3C metabolites) and they specifically push why DIM is better. If you review all of the real studies on both the clear choice is I3C and its definitely doing its part in this formula. Estrogen is lowered to a significant but healthy point.
 
Designer Supps said:
Unfortuneately I cant reveal the amount, its propreitary when it comes to mg amounts in this formula. But there is a specific dosing range where Divanil was found to be ideal and its in that exact range.
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OK DS, I trust your knowledge and understand your point.
thanks
 
nunes said:
OK DS, I trust your knowledge and understand your point.
thanks
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The info is out there, probably in the DS section here at AM. Bloodwork showed no benefit to using more then 1.2gms of Divanil per day at the highest bodyweights. The dosing amounts used for Divanil in ACTX was completely based off of all of our work with it over the last 3 years.
 
Hey DS,

I was taking 3 Activate Extreme a day when I got some blood work. My doctor called me at work to find out my secret to having such a high free test ratio! I think he wants a bottle now.

Good stuff amigo...
 
jpk said:
Hey DS,

I was taking 3 Activate Extreme a day when I got some blood work. My doctor called me at work to find out my secret to having such a high free test ratio! I think he wants a bottle now.

Good stuff amigo...
Click to expand...

Thanks brother. You want to hear a funny story, there was a young kid (16 almost 17) who emailed me asking about using ACTX. He said he had bloodwork (which he attached in the email) and had really low levels of test and free test. I told him (and a few other kids who have since had the same problem) to print out the full write up and FAQ on our website and bring it with him to go see his Dr. I told him to let his Dr go over it with him and to have the Dr give me a call if he wanted me to explain the reasons for any of the compounds used in the formula. The Dr told him it was ok for him to use and called me to go over some of the info. After 4 weeks the kid had his blood tested again and he levels had climbed back up into the normal range. The Dr was so impressed he himself (64 years old) started using ACTX and has sent me multiple emails letting me know of his feedback. Since then he has recommended the product to a few other people in his practice. Cant beat that.
 
Designer Supps said:
Thanks brother. You want to hear a funny story, there was a young kid (16 almost 17) who emailed me asking about using ACTX. He said he had bloodwork (which he attached in the email) and had really low levels of test and free test. I told him (and a few other kids who have since had the same problem) to print out the full write up and FAQ on our website and bring it with him to go see his Dr. I told him to let his Dr go over it with him and to have the Dr give me a call if he wanted me to explain the reasons for any of the compounds used in the formula. The Dr told him it was ok for him to use and called me to go over some of the info. After 4 weeks the kid had his blood tested again and he levels had climbed back up into the normal range. The Dr was so impressed he himself (64 years old) started using ACTX and has sent me multiple emails letting me know of his feedback. Since then he has recommended the product to a few other people in his practice. Cant beat that.
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Wow...I knew this was in the process of happening, but didn't know the final results. Great stuff.

:cheers::cheers:
 
Designer Supps said:
Thanks brother. You want to hear a funny story, there was a young kid (16 almost 17) who emailed me asking about using ACTX. He said he had bloodwork (which he attached in the email) and had really low levels of test and free test. I told him (and a few other kids who have since had the same problem) to print out the full write up and FAQ on our website and bring it with him to go see his Dr. I told him to let his Dr go over it with him and to have the Dr give me a call if he wanted me to explain the reasons for any of the compounds used in the formula. The Dr told him it was ok for him to use and called me to go over some of the info. After 4 weeks the kid had his blood tested again and he levels had climbed back up into the normal range. The Dr was so impressed he himself (64 years old) started using ACTX and has sent me multiple emails letting me know of his feedback. Since then he has recommended the product to a few other people in his practice. Cant beat that.
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thats great, must be a good product.......have the doc sign up to test DTH and get re-tested.

(before you start having a fit about science or tribulus that was a joke).
 
Designer Supps said:
Thanks brother. You want to hear a funny story, there was a young kid (16 almost 17) who emailed me asking about using ACTX. He said he had bloodwork (which he attached in the email) and had really low levels of test and free test. I told him (and a few other kids who have since had the same problem) to print out the full write up and FAQ on our website and bring it with him to go see his Dr. I told him to let his Dr go over it with him and to have the Dr give me a call if he wanted me to explain the reasons for any of the compounds used in the formula. The Dr told him it was ok for him to use and called me to go over some of the info. After 4 weeks the kid had his blood tested again and he levels had climbed back up into the normal range. The Dr was so impressed he himself (64 years old) started using ACTX and has sent me multiple emails letting me know of his feedback. Since then he has recommended the product to a few other people in his practice. Cant beat that.
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i wonder what the underlying cause of the low test was? for the 16 year old kid, not the 64 year old doctor. and did his test remain in normal range after stopping actx? btw what dosing did the doctor recommend? i have been on dthc/actx for close to 2 months, and am scheduled for an exam soon. hope my results are that positive.
 
Oh hai - why the F is this a 10 page thread?

I need cliff notes - I'm not reading all of this.
 
jmh80 said:
Oh hai - why the F is this a 10 page thread?

I need cliff notes - I'm not reading all of this.
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Battle of the natty test booster titans.

I think thats as much as I can condense it :) DS is sure their product is the best, Chuck is sure his is. theres about as much science supporting one as the other, and about as much in anecdotal/logged results too.
 
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Chuck is top profile...watch out.
 
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