A log with vague goals

[1HP]

Cardio on sugar fast days only, no cardio on lifting days?

Supplements:
MPS boosting supps like DL-185 on lifting days.

Fat oxidation promoting supplements beneficial only on fast days, wouldn’t know which qualify for that exclusively.

 

[Smont]

Cardio on sugar fast days only, no cardio on lifting days?

Supplements:
MPS boosting supps like DL-185 on lifting days.

Fat oxidation promoting supplements beneficial only on fast days, wouldn’t know which qualify for that exclusively.

That's partially why I was looking at SLU, carn and carderine, the 3 of those all cause a lot of fat oxidation and all 3 of them also have positive effects on a million different health markers "although carderine may be a double edged sword". But I'm thinking you stay on SLU and carnitine daily and maybe add carderine on the sugar fast days.

 

[Smont]

So how could we actually benefit, for fun hypothesis, how off do you reckon this is:

1) the ingestion of 100 g protein results in a greater and more prolonged (>12 h) anabolic response when compared to the ingestion of 25 g protein.

2) during this ~12 hour period, would it be a correct assumption the FGF21 increase from the absence of protein is not there.

3) Meaning an evening consumption of said 100gr protein leaves ~12 hours a day of sugar fast induced FGF21 potential.
-Aka 84 hours a week.
-Aka 50/50 in positive versus negative nitrogen balance, and 50/50 time spend on burning fat

4) Sugar fast = no protein at all

5) Sugar diet = only 1 protein serving a day

6) A maximum of 9% protein, of which I cannot conclusively find if it is as effective as a sugar diet, therefor excluded in this hypothesis

What if we change our lifting workout schedule to either 3 or 4 days a week on consecutive days, say mo-we or -th. Push-pull-legs for example, or legs-push-pull-legs (my preferred split). The idea being we have more hours of positive nitrogen balance post workout.

So:

1) High protein diet for 4 days, aiming for max mps
2) sugar fast for 3 days, no protein at all (or 9%??)

We can adjust last meal of day 4 for fine grained adjustments, 100gr protein before bed, casein shake, or just some iso whey at 4-6PM.

With a 3 day workout schedule we can have up to 48 hours of positive nitrogen balance for each workout including the last, a 4 day workout gives you max 24h for the last workout.

Then 72 hours of maximum FGF21 release.

The question is how effective this is versus a full cut, how both tax your system / health markers, and how does it make you feel.

I'm also wondering how long fgf stays elevated after you eat a bunch of protein. Like say you do a 3 day sugar fast or whatever to increase fgf21. Id imagine it doesn't just all magically disappear right after eating a protein few protein meals. But then again, maybe fgf21 that's already there can't work in the presence of leucine or whatever turns off that switch? I don't know

Kinda like how if you're on keto for a week and then for two days in a row you eat normal you'll still have ketones floating around in there. If you're pissed on one of those test strips it would still look like you're in ketosis even though you've been eating carbs for 24 to 48 hours. But you're not really in ketosis anymore. I wonder if it's a similar process with fgf and protein

 

[1HP]

I'm also wondering how long fgf stays elevated after you eat a bunch of protein. Like say you do a 3 day sugar fast or whatever to increase fgf21. Id imagine it doesn't just all magically disappear right after eating a protein few protein meals. But then again, maybe fgf21 that's already there can't work in the presence of leucine or whatever turns off that switch? I don't know

Kinda like how if you're on keto for a week and then for two days in a row you eat normal you'll still have ketones floating around in there. If you're pissed on one of those test strips it would still look like you're in ketosis even though you've been eating carbs for 24 to 48 hours. But you're not really in ketosis anymore. I wonder if it's a similar process with fgf and protein

• Native FGF21:
  The wild-type protein has a half-life of approximately 0.5-2 hours.
  
  
• Factors Affecting Half-life:
  The short half-life of native FGF21 is influenced by its susceptibility to proteolytic degradation and rapid renal clearance.
  
  
• FGF21 Analogs:
  To overcome this limitation, researchers have developed various FGF21 analogs with extended half-lives. These analogs often involve modifications like glycoPEGylation or fusion with other proteins like Fc or DARPin.
  
  • A glycoPEGylated FGF21 analog, pegozafermin, has a half-life of 55-100 hours in humans reported by the NIH.
    
    
  • Ex-DARPin fusion proteins have a half-life of 29-32 hours according to ScienceDirect.com.
    
    
  • Fc-FGF21(RG) has a half-life of 30 hours reported by PLOS.

 

[Smont]

I lost 3 more lbs by the way, my waist shrunk about a inch too, like in the past 2-3 days . I put on a size 32waist for the first time in........?

Not joking. BUT, I ABSOLUTELY AM NOT, crediting that to just the diet, I'm dehydrated still or my kidneys are failing cus I pissed a little dark and I'm dry as ****. Energy is fine but I don't feel like lifting weights for some reason. Id rather hit the bag. But I'm thinking thats my subconscious telling me I'm not fueled up to lift weights lol. If someone told me that all they had was fruit, candy and juice all day and then go work out and have one protein meal I'd tell them they're pissing in the wind

 

[Smont]

I also seem to need to use the bathroom less often as well. If that continues on I think that's worth making note of. My stomach is kind of finicky and I'm very irregularly regular if that makes sense. Not yesterday and I've normally gone to the bathroom once today and I don't have to at all.

 

[1HP]

I lost 3 more lbs by the way, my waist shrunk about a inch too, like in the past 2-3 days . I put on a size 32waist for the first time in........?

Not joking. BUT, I ABSOLUTELY AM NOT, crediting that to just the diet, I'm dehydrated still or my kidneys are failing cus I pissed a little dark and I'm dry as ****. Energy is fine but I don't feel like lifting weights for some reason. Id rather hit the bag. But I'm thinking thats my subconscious telling me I'm not fueled up to lift weights lol. If someone told me that all they had was fruit, candy and juice all day and then go work out and have one protein meal I'd tell them they're pissing in the wind

I’m thinking of jumping in tomorrow

Some other supplements to consider:

betaine supplementation robustly increased hepatic and circulating fibroblast growth factor (Fgf)21 levels

It has been described that butyrate and α-lipoic acid also regulate the levels of FGF21 in the liver. Butyrate is mainly produced by intestinal microbiota through fermentation processes and is able to regulate gene expression due to its activity as a HDAC3 inhibitor [143]. Regarding α-lipoic acid, its dietary supplementation induces hepatic and plasma levels of FGF21 in vivo and in vitro [72,144,145] on a CREBH-dependent mechanism [72].

 

[Hyde]

 

[Smont]

Sooooooooo......... Where's the fgf21 peptides Mike!

I did a little limited research and there are no supplements or peptides that are actually active fgf21 or anything even remotely close that's available. AI search also came up empty, but it also said....... Clinical Trials!

 

[1HP]

This is about as in depth as you need:
https://www.mdpi.com/1422-0067/20/19/4692

A few snippets:

In humans, no induction was seen up to 72 h of fasting [62]. The induction of FGF21 by fasting is only detectable after 7 to 10 days of nutrient deprivation and correlates with weight loss and the utilization of fuel derived from tissue breakdown

In humans, overfeeding increases FGF21 levels [111]. However, carbohydrate overfeeding but no fat, led to marked increase of serum FGF21 in humans [89], and an acute response is found with a fructose load [35]. It appears that FGF21 increase is an attempt to maintain glucose homeostasis in a state of nutritional excess

The maximum serum levels of FGF21 are found in low-protein high-carbohydrate intakes [95].

Finally, it has been described that in response to carbohydrate intake the hepatic production of FGF21 suppresses the sugar preference through a mechanism that involves hypothalamic signaling [114]. Hepatic FGF21 suppresses the consumption of simple sugars by acting on the paraventricular nucleus of the hypothalamus in a negative feedback loop. These data together with the GWAS studies available reinforce the role of FGF21 as a regulator of, at least, sugar and protein intake behavior [33,111,115].

 

[MrKleen73]

I would have to go back and rip through a hundred articles to figure out which ones had the information because I've been tearing through them ADHD style a different article every 20 minutes lol.

But I've came across several things that said the higher the sugar to protein ratio. More sugar/less protein the more fgf is produced. I just recently came across another one that said high fat can also trigger fgf21 release in the absence of protein and what Im gathering from all this is that significantly more calories from fat are needed then sugar.

I'm not positive, but if I'm understanding these things correctly or what I should say is if I'm putting all this together correctly, the high sugar is the fastest, lowest calorie way to do it.

There's also a ton of stuff showing that fgf21 will actually fix your blood sugar and reverse diabetes even in the presence of high sugar which doesn't make any sense to me. But there's tons of medical information on that one, it's not hard to find.

Trust me I know, you get interested and get the hyper-focused drive to learn as much as possible as quickly as possible. While a lot of ADHD can make life a bit harder, that part makes learning quickly, or getting hyper-focused toward something that truly excites us so much easier!

Yeah, I was just going off of what he was talking about in the video. He was only referring to that one study, and he didn't give actual fgf21 levels. They just tested both groups for how much faster the metabolism grew. Both groups increased right at 20%. I think this is where the information that higher fats don't matter that much is coming from. Also, I have to take back that I would prefer keto, because one of the drivers for why I like KETO is the cuts of meat it opens up which wouldn't exist on this plan. However, if both the 9%p/mostly carbs >30g fat a day increased metabolism by 20%, the MOA is not a super important factor if looking at the same result. I just feel like I would feel better throughout the day if I had more fats. Of course if testing something then it doesn't matter too much, you do what the test requires, and not personal preferences. I would imagine closer to a 9/high, and 60g of fat would still produce the 20% increase in metabolism. Of course, I need to look at all the google docs you have posted so far to have a better understanding from what you are seeing. Did you happen to find any other studies that compared different fat contents? This one makes it look like low fat is not needed for the same 20% increase.

I found one youtube guy who apparently has been running like this for 10 years and is 9.5% on dexa. However, he did not say anything about his health markers, or the state of his liver. He did say he was getting in an average of 130g of fructose a day.

Did Chase do a pretty good breakdown of it? He normally gives enough info to be able to do some better research from hearing things you want to look up yourself.

 

[gphagan1]

Sooooooooo......... Where's the fgf21 peptides Mike!

I did a little limited research and there are no supplements or peptides that are actually active fgf21 or anything even remotely close that's available. AI search also came up empty, but it also said....... Clinical Trials!
View attachment 253346

While all this research and data on FGF21 and how to induce it or manipulate through diet, clearly shows promise not only for fat loss, blood sugar, and seemingly numerous possible health benefits. This is one diet that I would have an extremely hard time to stick with….ha, even for a few days. But I am definitely interested in your feedback as you try this little experiment. And I’m extremely interested in any of the research on supplements or peptides that can induce FGF21, because I would definitely have an interest in trying any of those.

 

[Smont]

Fgf21 lowers IGF 1 levels and inhibits GH singling

 

[gphagan1]

Fgf21 lowers IGF 1 levels and inhibits GH singling View attachment 253360

Oh man, well that sucks.

 

[1HP]

Fgf21 lowers IGF 1 levels and inhibits GH singling View attachment 253360

IGF-1 is a hormone produced primarily in the liver in response to HGH stimulation. It's considered the key mediator of HGH's anabolic (growth-promoting) effects.

Amino acids, the building blocks of protein, are crucial for IGF-1 production.

This, to me, makes sense, and part of our design. Back in the day we’d be hunting for an animal food source and eat fruits we find on the way to carry us over to that protein catch.

I started today. Can update if interested? Starting weight 99.7 Kg, first meal 520kcal from a fruits/sorbet cream smoothie with some honey.

 

[Smont]

Oh man, well that sucks.

If your on steroids it won't matter nearly as much.

 

[Smont]

IGF-1 is a hormone produced primarily in the liver in response to HGH stimulation. It's considered the key mediator of HGH's anabolic (growth-promoting) effects.

Amino acids, the building blocks of protein, are crucial for IGF-1 production.

This, to me, makes sense, and part of our design. Back in the day we’d be hunting for an animal food source and eat fruits we find on the way to carry us over to that protein catch.

I started today. Can update if interested? Starting weight 99.7 Kg, first meal 520kcal from a fruits/sorbet cream smoothie with some honey.

Go right ahead

 

[Smont]

I ate pretty loose yesterday, lots of coffee in the morning, I had a grilled chicken tenders pizza for a early lunch. Imagine you have some chicken tenders cooked in some gooey spicy sauce like hot honey BBQ or something. Then those were chopped up and put on a flatbread, covered with cheese and a few toppings and grilled till the cheese melts.

Then I had grills chicken and coleslaw on a sandwich.

At home we made our own crunch wrap Supremes for dinner and I chased that with some pot brownies lol.

Idk my total calories but they were well over 5000. The brownies and milk alone were 1600 calories I woke up 2lbs heavier and this morning and I look good, full, but my stomach is screwed up. So I can definitely say that the way I was eating on the "sugar days" helps my stomach. And I think I've always known this but greasy messes up my stomach, junk food that's sugar and fat together like cookies cakes and ice cream make my stomach off (the late night snacking is a big part of my stomach issues) but on a keto style my stomach is ok if it's good fat choices and apparently sugar without fat doesn't screw my stomach up.


I'm betting that after a day of no fat and a protein and vegetables dinner my stomach will be gtg again.

I kind of already knew all this, my problem is not figuring out what's wrong with my stomach, it's avoiding the foods that f****** up.

I got a lot of work to do today and the cookout again tomorrow so I'm going to wait till Monday to hop back on this and I'm going to stick to the diet Monday through Friday this coming week

 

[LeanEngineer]

I woke up 2lbs heavier and this morning and I look good, full, but my stomach is screwed up.

The aftermath is always the worst. Tastes awesome in the short term but wrecks ya the day after. My stomach does the same with that type of food.

 

[Nac]

From a pure fatloss and hunger management perspective, this sugar diet is the best strategy/tool Ive ever tried. Ive only been using it 3 weeks, so Im still inconclusive with regards to longer term negatives such as inflammation and lean tissue retention, but damn in those 3 weeks Ive gotten through what is normally a sticking point with that annoying little pouch of stomach fat at the belly button. And no hunger issues. No craving processed crap.

Im also enjoying experimenting with such a low protein intake (Id say Im approx 100gm per day, of protein sources), its a nice change to have carbs as the dominant macro esp in a kcal deficot. Im hoping some of the "science" is right: AAS reduces protein intake requirements, and training is the most important variable for muscle retention/growth. Threads on other forums give confidence, with big dudes doing this diet successfully with less than 100g pro per day.

I guess time will tell. Looking forward to hearing others experiences with this.

 

[1HP]

I have reservations on the claimed moa.

Let me explain why:

I never heard about this “sugar diet” till last week.

But I started a high fruit intake “diet” on the 26th of May. This involved keeping my caloric intake the same as before, at my maintenance, but replacing 50% of my carbohydrate intake with fruits.

I replaced my breakfast and pre bed meals with protein smoothies, and added fruits to my other meals, like for example, change a chicken/rice/curry meal to chicken/ 50% rice/pineapple with the same total amount of calories/carbohydrates.

This has given me surprisingly good results, I have simultaneously gained strength while my weight dropped from 102.1 to 99.7kg (weekly average, varying between 102.7 and 99.1).

The improvements accelerated when I started exchanging both protein and fat for more carbohydrates.

This is where I took to google to find an explanation, and stumbled on the “sugar diet”. After reading a lot of logs of others, I see the following in common with my diet:

1) Large amount of fruits with most / if not all meals.
2) Exchanging fat/protein for even more fruits (carbs)

The difference is no protein till the last one or two meals (sugar diet), or protein restricted to a once every 3,4 or even 5 days protein/fata refeed day (sugar fast).

The past 3 days I’ve changed my diet to only protein in the last meal, lowering in fat automatically comes with that, and replace all carbohydrates with fruit and honey (very hard to eat so much fruit), with so far, no apparent benefits to before. The only 2 notable differences are, my weight has stayed exactly the same each morning, 99.7 kg, while it normally hovers, and a small reduction in feelings of well being and motivation (and a notable hit to HRV for who believes in that).

Recognising my system may need some time to adjust, and you can always have a few off days, I’ll keep it going for the week.

BTW, I’m not enhanced, just a 52 year old trying to stay in good shape, and a curious mind.

 

[Dustin07]

This, to me, makes sense, and part of our design. Back in the day we’d be hunting for an animal food source and eat fruits we find on the way to carry us over to that protein catch.

this is a big part of why I embrace fasting in general

1) Large amount of fruits with most / if not all meals.
2) Exchanging fat/protein for even more fruits (carbs)

The difference is no protein till the last one or two meals (sugar diet), or protein restricted to a once every 3,4 or even 5 days protein/fata refeed day (sugar fast).

The past 3 days I’ve changed my diet to only protein in the last meal, lowering in fat automatically comes with that, and replace all carbohydrates with fruit and honey

the fruit would be very hard for me, I'm not a fan. the very sweetness of it irritates my mouth. I'm an eater and will never die of starvation if there is edible, even moderately poisonous food around (lol), but I never really gravitate to fruit. Eating an apple a day was my norm, and it's typically about my max. Honey however, I love and I love to add local honey to my coffee from time to time.

 

[Hyde]

I have reservations on the claimed moa.

Let me explain why:

I never heard about this “sugar diet” till last week.

But I started a high fruit intake “diet” on the 26th of May. This involved keeping my caloric intake the same as before, at my maintenance, but replacing 50% of my carbohydrate intake with fruits.

I replaced my breakfast and pre bed meals with protein smoothies, and added fruits to my other meals, like for example, change a chicken/rice/curry meal to chicken/ 50% rice/pineapple with the same total amount of calories/carbohydrates.

This has given me surprisingly good results, I have simultaneously gained strength while my weight dropped from 102.1 to 99.7kg (weekly average, varying between 102.7 and 99.1).

The improvements accelerated when I started exchanging both protein and fat for more carbohydrates.

This is where I took to google to find an explanation, and stumbled on the “sugar diet”. After reading a lot of logs of others, I see the following in common with my diet:

1) Large amount of fruits with most / if not all meals.
2) Exchanging fat/protein for even more fruits (carbs)

The difference is no protein till the last one or two meals (sugar diet), or protein restricted to a once every 3,4 or even 5 days protein/fata refeed day (sugar fast).

The past 3 days I’ve changed my diet to only protein in the last meal, lowering in fat automatically comes with that, and replace all carbohydrates with fruit and honey (very hard to eat so much fruit), with so far, no apparent benefits to before. The only 2 notable differences are, my weight has stayed exactly the same each morning, 99.7 kg, while it normally hovers, and a small reduction in feelings of well being and motivation (and a notable hit to HRV for who believes in that).

Recognising my system may need some time to adjust, and you can always have a few off days, I’ll keep it going for the week.

BTW, I’m not enhanced, just a 52 year old trying to stay in good shape, and a curious mind.

Love the feedback

 

[Nac]

I have reservations on the claimed moa.

Let me explain why:

I never heard about this “sugar diet” till last week.

But I started a high fruit intake “diet” on the 26th of May. This involved keeping my caloric intake the same as before, at my maintenance, but replacing 50% of my carbohydrate intake with fruits.

I replaced my breakfast and pre bed meals with protein smoothies, and added fruits to my other meals, like for example, change a chicken/rice/curry meal to chicken/ 50% rice/pineapple with the same total amount of calories/carbohydrates.

This has given me surprisingly good results, I have simultaneously gained strength while my weight dropped from 102.1 to 99.7kg (weekly average, varying between 102.7 and 99.1).

The improvements accelerated when I started exchanging both protein and fat for more carbohydrates.

This is where I took to google to find an explanation, and stumbled on the “sugar diet”. After reading a lot of logs of others, I see the following in common with my diet:

1) Large amount of fruits with most / if not all meals.
2) Exchanging fat/protein for even more fruits (carbs)

The difference is no protein till the last one or two meals (sugar diet), or protein restricted to a once every 3,4 or even 5 days protein/fata refeed day (sugar fast).

The past 3 days I’ve changed my diet to only protein in the last meal, lowering in fat automatically comes with that, and replace all carbohydrates with fruit and honey (very hard to eat so much fruit), with so far, no apparent benefits to before. The only 2 notable differences are, my weight has stayed exactly the same each morning, 99.7 kg, while it normally hovers, and a small reduction in feelings of well being and motivation (and a notable hit to HRV for who believes in that).

Recognising my system may need some time to adjust, and you can always have a few off days, I’ll keep it going for the week.

BTW, I’m not enhanced, just a 52 year old trying to stay in good shape, and a curious mind.

Have you experienced any salt/sodium cravings? Around lunchtime Im really hankering for my chicken and rice, which I typically smother in salt and pepper. I know some guys are craving sodium so bad they put it on their fruit.

 

[1HP]

Have you experienced any salt/sodium cravings? Around lunchtime Im really hankering for my chicken and rice, which I typically smother in salt and pepper. I know some guys are craving sodium so bad they put it on their fruit.

So far no.

 

[Smont]

I didn't notice sodium cravings either, but I did find myself pretty dehydrated on the days I ate carbs only till dinner which is odd because a lot of those calories were liquid, and @MrKleen73 suggested adding sodium so I did. Over the next 4 days I'll look for a repeat in effects as I'm switching back over after taking the weekend off.


At first this diet didn't appeal to me at all. I wanted to break it down just to figure out if there was anything worth noting as the rest of it was ridiculous. The more I looked into it the more I realized I originally just saw the sensationalized version and with much more fruit, white rice honey and things of that nature it didn't have to be so terrible. Although I do like slipping in a couple bags of gummy bears lol.

What did appeal to me in this diet is that I had already started losing weight without realizing it a while back, being summertime and increased workload, plus out in the garden working all day on my off days. The gym and so on. I'm just burning calories Non-Stop, and I think you guys had heard me mention a few times that I had been having less appetite lately and it was hard to push foodand then I switched into diet mode and then I found this and thought I'd apply it.

I actually had attempted a few sugar days before I brought it up in the thread, I just couldn't manage getting through an entire day of sugar. When I brought it up in the thread I decided to give it a go with the protein dinner and that was around the time I was b*********** about it with @MrKleen73 and he brought up the sodium and so on.

I can absolutely say on the days I eat as much carbs as possible with no fat my weight drops really quickly and I get a little dehydrated. Maybe that has something to do with water vs stored glycogen and the excess of carbohydrates and lack of certain electrolytes or minerals

Or

I also could have just been dehydrated from sweating a lot .

Hard to tell.

At this point tho I want run a lot more sugar days and see how long it takes before I'm noticeably losing muscle or or just flat all the time.

I've taking some pictures and my waist is the smallest that it's been in at least 20 years. Truly mean that. Last time I waist was this small I was fighting at 165-178 lb. And I do look flat but I pump up the second I touch something. Hitting the punching bag pumps me up like I just did chest, shoulders and arms for 2 hours lol.

 

[Hyde]

You should consume adequate sodium to maintain adequate hydration regardless of caloric intake - this will go for every diet. Need to supplement will just vary based on the diet’s composition.

 

[Smont]

You should consume adequate sodium to maintain adequate hydration regardless of caloric intake - this will go for every diet. Need to supplement will just vary based on the diet’s composition.

Absolutely, it's just something I completely overlooked, and often when it comes to hydration I do completely overlook things like my sodium intake. Which is super foolish because I sweat all day everyday I need a lot more sodium than the average person. And I do cramp up a lot too. Regardless of how I'm eating I often cramp up from certain exercises and it's usually smaller muscle groups like abdominals or calves or forearm

 

[sammpedd88]

Absolutely, it's just something I completely overlooked, and often when it comes to hydration I do completely overlook things like my sodium intake. Which is super foolish because I sweat all day everyday I need a lot more sodium than the average person. And I do cramp up a lot too. Regardless of how I'm eating I often cramp up from certain exercises and it's usually smaller muscle groups like abdominals or calves or forearm

Calf cramps are the tell-tale for me. If I get calve cramps I know I’m dehydrated. The first one I ever had was when I was in boot camp at Paris Island in the heat of the summer. I woke up in the middle of the night with the worst cramp ever in my calf and yelling at the top of my lungs. Several others did the same thing the first few weeks. Worst cramp pain ever.

 

[LeanEngineer]

Calf cramps are the tell-tale for me. If I get calve cramps I know I’m dehydrated. The first one I ever had was when I was in boot camp at Paris Island in the heat of the summer. I woke up in the middle of the night with the worst cramp ever in my calf and yelling at the top of my lungs. Several others did the same thing the first few weeks. Worst cramp pain ever.

Same here. Either calf cramps or ab cramps will tell the story for me.

 

[Dustin07]

I didn't notice sodium cravings either, but I did find myself pretty dehydrated on the days I ate carbs only till dinner which is odd because a lot of those calories were liquid, and @MrKleen73 suggested adding sodium so I did. Over the next 4 days I'll look for a repeat in effects as I'm switching back over after taking the weekend off.


At first this diet didn't appeal to me at all. I wanted to break it down just to figure out if there was anything worth noting as the rest of it was ridiculous. The more I looked into it the more I realized I originally just saw the sensationalized version and with much more fruit, white rice honey and things of that nature it didn't have to be so terrible. Although I do like slipping in a couple bags of gummy bears lol.

What did appeal to me in this diet is that I had already started losing weight without realizing it a while back, being summertime and increased workload, plus out in the garden working all day on my off days. The gym and so on. I'm just burning calories Non-Stop, and I think you guys had heard me mention a few times that I had been having less appetite lately and it was hard to push foodand then I switched into diet mode and then I found this and thought I'd apply it.

I actually had attempted a few sugar days before I brought it up in the thread, I just couldn't manage getting through an entire day of sugar. When I brought it up in the thread I decided to give it a go with the protein dinner and that was around the time I was b*********** about it with @MrKleen73 and he brought up the sodium and so on.

I can absolutely say on the days I eat as much carbs as possible with no fat my weight drops really quickly and I get a little dehydrated. Maybe that has something to do with water vs stored glycogen and the excess of carbohydrates and lack of certain electrolytes or minerals

Or

I also could have just been dehydrated from sweating a lot .

Hard to tell.

At this point tho I want run a lot more sugar days and see how long it takes before I'm noticeably losing muscle or or just flat all the time.

I've taking some pictures and my waist is the smallest that it's been in at least 20 years. Truly mean that. Last time I waist was this small I was fighting at 165-178 lb. And I do look flat but I pump up the second I touch something. Hitting the punching bag pumps me up like I just did chest, shoulders and arms for 2 hours lol.

pretty fascinating stuff dude.

 

[Smont]

Body weight came back up to 191lbs over the weekend, (this morning 190.8)

I had aExpresso style small coffee this morning, 12oz oj and a bag of gummy bears at 9

At noonish il have another 12oz oj and a banana

Pre workout a 30gm protein shake with 50gm of added carbs

Post workout I'm having some grilled chicken on potato rolls.

Today I thought about all sugar day but I'm working 8am-4pm I got a training session with someone at 5 and from 6-7 I'm doing my workout and I have another session with someone 715-8. Sooooo that's a lot to do running on just sugar and no meal for recovery.

Tomorrow will be a mostly simple carbs and almost no protein day

 

[Smont]

Already sweating excessively, I'm on my second shirt at 10:45Am. Today is gonna be a 4 short day lol.

Il be added some salt and sugar to my water also

 

[Dustin07]

Body weight came back up to 191lbs over the weekend, (this morning 190.8)

I had aExpresso style small coffee this morning, 12oz oj and a bag of gummy bears at 9

At noonish il have another 12oz oj and a banana

Pre workout a 30gm protein shake with 50gm of added carbs

Post workout I'm having some grilled chicken on potato rolls.

Today I thought about all sugar day but I'm working 8am-4pm I got a training session with someone at 5 and from 6-7 I'm doing my workout and I have another session with someone 715-8. Sooooo that's a lot to do running on just sugar and no meal for recovery.

Tomorrow will be a mostly simple carbs and almost no protein day

do you feel like you're able to achieve acute/micro impacts on a day by day approach with this vs having to run it for a week+ at a time to see results?

like Keto, people say a few weeks to a few months. with fasting, the real magic starts after like 30hours. But it sounds like you can pick days where you focus on carbs/sugars and see immediate results.

also just looking over your meal plan for the day, that HAS to be a substantial deficit for you, right? Just sspitballing but it seems like I'm seeing 1,000 calories ish. (no I didn't take the time to math it lol)

 

[Smont]

do you feel like you're able to achieve acute/micro impacts on a day by day approach with this vs having to run it for a week+ at a time to see results?

like Keto, people say a few weeks to a few months. with fasting, the real magic starts after like 30hours. But it sounds like you can pick days where you focus on carbs/sugars and see immediate results.

also just looking over your meal plan for the day, that HAS to be a substantial deficit for you, right? Just sspitballing but it seems like I'm seeing 1,000 calories ish. (no I didn't take the time to math it lol)

Im still trying to figure that out

No it's not like keto. With keto I need about a week and il start to drop water weight. With this it's different, I don't think I'm particularly unlocking any fat loss secrets on the sugar days, but every sugar day (it happened again today) every time I have a ton of sugar with nothing really else in the first half of the day I sweat a lot, more then usual. Between that and my stomach being pretty much empty all day, I feel like it kind of just really quickly drives me out and sucks my stomach in. I have no explanation for it but I am noticing it.

And I'm not eating a thousand calories I'm eating 3000.

The thousand calories was from the time I woke up till the end of my work day, I also had a bowl of white rice with honey and hot sauce, and 2 oz of chicken before I went to the gym. At the gym. I had 40oz of Gatorade and a pack of gummy worms, and now I'm about to head upstairs and eat my last meal for the day which is 8oz pork tenderloin with barbecue sauce.

And I'll probably wake up and eat something at 2:00 a.m. lol

 

[Smont]

Oh and I'm drinking OJ with dinner tonight.

And by default I'm having much less caffeine on sugar days. I normally have 4-5 coffee a day lol. On sugar days only1

 

[Smont]

Lost 3.5lbs from yesterday and my stomach sucked right in again too. Something works lol. "Something" is unknown still.

Also, my baby momma is worried about me for once, not that I'm getting too skinny, but that if I don't stay out of the sun ICE is gonna come take me away lol.

Also, now that I'm getting really lean I can see my gyno when I flex. Time for a Ralox protocol

 

[Smont]

As of this week I'm on 300mg test, 3iu HGH and I'm gonna start ralox at 50mg daily after a initial week on 100mg. I'm calling this my cruise. My TRT is "150" so I'm still doubled up on test and 3units of GH. My hormones identify as a 19 year old

I may use some injectable L-Carnatine, I'm starting a bottle of SNS ATP product and I may play with some peptides

 

[gphagan1]

Lost 3.5lbs from yesterday and my stomach sucked right in again too. Something works lol. "Something" is unknown still. View attachment 253481

Also, my baby momma is worried about me for once, not that I'm getting too skinny, but that if I don't stay out of the sun ICE is gonna come take me away lol.

Also, now that I'm getting really lean I can see my gyno when I flex. Time for a Ralox protocol

Looking shredded….looks like that diet helped you shed that last little bit of fat you were trying to knock out.

 

[Smont]

Looking shredded….looks like that diet helped you shed that last little bit of fat you were trying to get.

I'm tempted to drop another 10-12 lbs and really get shredded. But I'm also at that point I don't want to get smaller. I'm okay with the amount of muscle I have right now at this body fat percentage, especially when I eat normal for a couple days and fill back out.

A alternative that I may do after I'm done playing around with the simple carbs is to still cut that last 10lbs but do it like I've got 7 to 10 days to make weight for a fight. Which would involve me cutting my calories in half and doing excessive cardio for a week. Most of it would be water but I think sucking down another 10 lb to 178-180 would have me as tight as I could be without going into a contest prep diet. I really just want to get a visual picture of what it's going to look like and I know I won't be able to maintain that low of a body weight anyways.

With all those things said, I can't wait to bulk back up to 210-215 cuz I'm pretty sure I can maintain my abs till at least 210 lb without lean I am right now. I would love to have these new set points and I think I do have new set points

 

[gphagan1]

I'm tempted to drop another 10-12 lbs and really get shredded. But I'm also at that point I don't want to get smaller. I'm okay with the amount of muscle I have right now at this body fat percentage, especially when I eat normal for a couple days and fill back out.

A alternative that I may do after I'm done playing around with the simple carbs is to still cut that last 10lbs but do it like I've got 7 to 10 days to make weight for a fight. Which would involve me cutting my calories in half and doing excessive cardio for a week. Most of it would be water but I think sucking down another 10 lb to 178-180 would have me as tight as I could be without going into a contest prep diet. I really just want to get a visual picture of what it's going to look like and I know I won't be able to maintain that low of a body weight anyways.

With all those things said, I can't wait to bulk back up to 210-215 cuz I'm pretty sure I can maintain my abs till at least 210 lb without lean I am right now. I would love to have these new set points and I think I do have new set points

Oh yeah, with where your body fat % looks in that picture at 190, I’m sure 20 lbs heavier at 210 you would still see your abs.

 

[Dustin07]

I'm tempted to drop another 10-12 lbs and really get shredded. But I'm also at that point I don't want to get smaller. I'm okay with the amount of muscle I have right now at this body fat percentage, especially when I eat normal for a couple days and fill back out.

this is the legit struggle. every time I get under 190 I know that another 5-10 lbs would be perfect, but I get that hankering to grow and lift heavier again.

 

[Smont]

this is the legit struggle. every time I get under 190 I know that another 5-10 lbs would be perfect, but I get that hankering to grow and lift heavier again.

I know, it's been my issue for years, but I have always been happy after I cut further then I'm comfortable with. Maybe not while I'm at my lowest weight, but on the way back up, it always piles on better then before. I really think one of the biggest cheat codes that no1 access is the benefit of getting really lean. I try to get a tiny bet leaner on each cut and on the way back up your always leaner when you get back to your starting weight.

It's funny, I always use to bulk too hard and not cut enough, once I realized the benefits of getting lean, not I'm afraid to get too fat lol. Which was never an issue for me 4-5 years ago. I regularly pushed up to 220 but it wasn't a lean 220 by any stretch of imagination

 

[Dustin07]

I try to get a tiny bet leaner on each cut and on the way back up your always leaner when you get back to your starting weight.

It's funny, I always use to bulk too hard and not cut enough, once I realized the benefits of getting lean, not I'm afraid to get too fat lol. Which was never an issue for me 4-5 years ago. I regularly pushed up to 220 but it wasn't a lean 220 by any stretch of imagination

my weight tracking graph is starting to look like financial technical analysis of a stock about to either explode to the upside, or tank down.

i sat at 180 for ever, slow bulked to 207,
down to like 183 up to 205
down to 186 up to 203
down to 187 up to 198
today sitting at 193 lol.

so a little heavier each cut, a little lighter each bulk. I think mid 180s is probably my healthiest sweet spot but my strength is substantially higher at 195+ 200 is PR city for me.

 

[gphagan1]

my weight tracking graph is starting to look like financial technical analysis of a stock about to either explode to the upside, or tank down.

i sat at 180 for ever, slow bulked to 207,
down to like 183 up to 205
down to 186 up to 203
down to 187 up to 198
today sitting at 193 lol.

so a little heavier each cut, a little lighter each bulk. I think mid 180s is probably my healthiest sweet spot but my strength is substantially higher at 195+ 200 is PR city for me.

View attachment 253483

Looks like it’s the right time to buy into that stock…..it’s getting ready to explode with new growth.

 

[MrKleen73]

Looking good man, I am really considering giving this a shot for a week or two. Just to see if I got a similar experience. How much protein are you getting in on average a day?

 

[Smont]

Looking good man, I am really considering giving this a shot for a week or two. Just to see if I got a similar experience. How much protein are you getting in on average a day?

On the sugar days with protein and vegetables or rice at dinner/post workout only, about 80-100gm.

On the non sugar days I'm trying to overcompensate with a little extra.

my weight tracking graph is starting to look like financial technical analysis of a stock about to either explode to the upside, or tank down.

i sat at 180 for ever, slow bulked to 207,
down to like 183 up to 205
down to 186 up to 203
down to 187 up to 198
today sitting at 193 lol.

so a little heavier each cut, a little lighter each bulk. I think mid 180s is probably my healthiest sweet spot but my strength is substantially higher at 195+ 200 is PR city for me.

View attachment 253483

If I could skip the whole months of bulking and go straight back to 220lbs in the winter I would in a heartbeat, I haven't tested my strength at 215-220 in a few years. I benched 370 @198 like 2 years ago, id imagine at 220 and no shoulder issues going on I could get my 405 with a little bench press peeking program and a handful of anadrol lol.

I've given up everything heavy in the past month except I snuck a few deadlifts is. I'm going to keep pulling heavy and do weighted chins and some heavy box squats. But everything else I'm going 12-20+ for a while. I do sometimes get sore joints in the summer but since I jumped off the porch a month or so ago all my joints been screaming on overtime. All heavy push bothers them right now. Heavy pull feels great tho

 

[1HP]

Something works lol. "Something" is unknown still.

Something works for sure.

It’s something in fruits, it has to be, but is it fructose, or megadosing plyohenols / natural occuring vitamins/minerals?

For me mandatory supplements are salt, choline and candy/sugars, I’m feeling and am performing great on about a 2/3 fruits 1/3 sugar mix.

W/o salt cramps
Choline for mood
Sugar for workout strength, endurance and pump, no pump and flat w/o sugar!

Puzzling: 6 days in a row exactly the same weight in the morning, while tweaking the diet.

The first few days I was struggling with energy/mood, adding sugar/choline fixed that.

Strength/endurance and mood are currently above average, excellent even,

Lifestyle wise, a very likeable diet. Eat all the fruit you possibly can during the day, lots of options for variation, a bag of candy around workout, a pound of lean meat with greens and some potatoes or similar at dinner. No hunger, no suffering, calorie counting not necessary. I really enjoy dropping by the supermarket after workout, buying and cooking whatever I fancy at that moment (within the established options ofcourse). A very welcome departure from force feeding 5-6 pre-prepped rice/broccoli/chicken type meals. It actually feels more normal / natural.

 

[Smont]

Something works for sure.

It’s something in fruits, it has to be, but is it fructose, or megadosing plyohenols / natural occuring vitamins/minerals?

For me mandatory supplements are salt, choline and candy/sugars, I’m feeling and am performing great on about a 2/3 fruits 1/3 sugar mix.

W/o salt cramps
Choline for mood
Sugar for workout strength, endurance and pump, no pump and flat w/o sugar!

Puzzling: 6 days in a row exactly the same weight in the morning, while tweaking the diet.

The first few days I was struggling with energy/mood, adding sugar/choline fixed that.

Strength/endurance and mood are currently above average, excellent even,

Lifestyle wise, a very likeable diet. Eat all the fruit you possibly can during the day, lots of options for variation, a bag of candy around workout, a pound of lean meat with greens and some potatoes or similar at dinner. No hunger, no suffering, calorie counting not necessary. I really enjoy dropping by the supermarket after workout, buying and cooking whatever I fancy at that moment (within the established options ofcourse). A very welcome departure from force feeding 5-6 pre-prepped rice/broccoli/chicken type meals. It actually feels more normal / natural.

Because many days in the summer I'm working outside painting or doing some kind of construction this can work for me. And pretty good. I'm hot and thirsty all the time but not super hungry. If I switch to more fruit and add watermelon chunks, citrus fruit slices and berries I can see this being even better. I just don't like not eating close to 200gm of protein ideally I want to be at 250 consistently as that's what I've found to be the "perfect" not really but it's a good amount for me. It gets the job done regardless of many other factors. The way I'm eating now, if I total up every day's protein because I have some high protein days where I even hit 300, and I'm just doing that to balance things out, but over the 7 days in a row that I calculated it only breaks down to about 160 to 180 g a day. And that's because some days are 100 and some days or 200+ and occasionally I have a 300 day. And I'm not worried about160-180, that's fine for me for maintenance.

By the way, I'm down another 1.2lb from yesterday but I also did 45min of high intensity cardio. Heavy bag, mits and sparring a few rounds. I rang a 1/2 cup of water out my shirt, no exaggeration.

id really like to change a few things and see what happens.

There's actually like 10 things we do every day that upregulate or activate fgf21, even just weight lifting and cardio both do it too, but the problem is we're always eating protein and amino acids pump the breaks on fgf-21.

But even tho I'm assuming a bunch of things I'm about to say next, there ideas or educated guess that I need to play around with to get answers and I also need to do more reading.


So my thoughts are that if I'm waking up and doing a little faster cardio I know I'm helping to get that fgf21, and then I'm sugar fasting during the day which is helping with fgf21, my job is pretty much exercise you never stop moving all day long even on my days off I'm out in my garden lugging around 5 gallon buckets for four or five hours scattered throughout the day. How are any of these things going to make a significant difference, idk. But some days if I'm intermittently sugar fasting from 5am to 5pm and doing cardio and active all day is that long enough to get some of these benefits? At bare minimum il feel good and my stomach will be pretty empty. But idk if I'm going to loose out because I also want to swap over to amino acids and more carbs @530-6 till 730pm while I'm training. But, even tho fgf21 turns off quickly, I think it still said it took a few hours, then from 8-11pm I have to get 200gm of protein in.

I'm sorry if this is getting confusing.

What I'm thinking is that from 5:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. during the sugar-fast fgf 21 is going up even during my intro workout it's still there because it takes a few hours to wear off after amino acids are introduced and when I take my intra aminos I'm still at less then 10% protein vs total calories so fgf 21 should be elevated from 5:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. everyday when I start eating my protein. And I still get my 200 plus grams of protein in every day. On other days I'd eat like a bro chicken and rice.

 

[Smont]

6am coffee and light cardio
7am oj and a banana, maybe more coffee or tea
9am-4pm I'm drinking water with electrolytes and a few servings of fruit like watermelon, clementines and pineapple or berries, whatever its going to be like 3-4 servings of fruit. Id probably have a Gatorade or fruit juice cut with water, and lots of water in general.
530pm I head to the gym with 10gm eaa, 10gm creatine and some simple liquid carbs or candy
6-730/8 gym, drink a shake after the gym. 830-10:30pm get 150 more grams of protein in.

I won't detail the menu or add up all individual macros, but this style of it would probably work for me a few days a week Tuesday and Thursday I work during the day and then workout and train people at night, it would work perfectly for those 2 days. At this point I'm catering to my schedule and not what I've seen work so far, but it's close enough in my mind to give it a go and see if I can still reap the benefits.