6 weeks into TRT, labs show Test is lower?

[Lockout888]

I'm just over 6 weeks into TRT via Axiron (2 pumps a day). My total testosterone shows lower than before I started? Can anyone shed some light on this?

Initial Labs:
Total Test = 291 (241-827)
T4 = 7.4 (4.5-12.0)
TSH RFLX = 2.61 (0.40-4.50)
LH = 5.4 (1.5-9)
FSH = 5.2 (2.0-9.2)
Estradiol = 13 (8.0-35)
Progesterone <10 (<10-11)
Prolactin = 4.8 (3-18)
Estrone = 64 (12-72)
SHBG = 17.0 (16.5-55.9)
Albumin = 4.8 (3.6-5.1)

6 weeks later:
Total Test = 234 (348-1197)
LH = <0.2 (1.7-8.6)
FSH = 0.5 (1.5-12.4)
Estradiol = 19.8 (7.6-42.6)
SHBG = 14.8 (16.5-55.9)
Albumin = 4.3 (3.5-5.5)

 

[EasyEJL]

with any of the topicals, it varies. 2 pumps is the starting dose and works if you happen to have very good absorption. I know a few people using 4 pumps a day of it.

 

[The Matrix]

Not absorbing
Switch to shots or address thyroid or adrenal issues.

When was test taken in relationship to the application?

 

[Lockout888]

Not absorbing. Switch to shots or address thyroid or adrenal issues. When was test taken in relationship to the application?

How do I address thyroid or adrenal issues?

Test was taken @ 7am without taking Axiron yet. I normally apply it around 7:30am.

 

[AnabolicHolic]

This is unfortunately how topicals work. They drop you to zero, then you start to build up again....and the "normal starting dosage" is usually barely enough to get you back to your initial low #....say you had 290, you'll probably get to 275-350 with the standard dosage of androgel/axiron, whatever brand. You need to bump to 3, then to 4 etc...or with androgel bump to 7.5 then to 10 etc....until you get to your desired #. The 5g of androgel and the 2 pumps of axiron are only enough to get you to your "low #" you began at...these are not high dosages you are taking, the introductory dosing. Its enough to get you to 300's....you want 700's? double what you are taking now. This is how it works, you have to put in your time before you get to the desired test #....they won't put you on 10g of androgel or 4 pumps of axiron straightaway....they just aren't "cool like that'

 

[AnabolicHolic]

I think axiron sucks BTW, I prefer androgel. I had EXACTLY the same # as you....and 1.5 months on 2.5g then 5g androgel (one month each) got me to 360. Needless to say I was disappointed at that point, but at least it was greater than my starting #. Less than is not really acceptable, even with "so-so" absorption....

 

[joeblow1]

Screw the gels they are expensive and they suck. Get injectable test cypionate and you will be feeling great in a few weeks. Do whatever you need to get to 200 mg week of cyp. That should have your test levels around 1100.

 

[napalm]

Get injectable test cypionate and you will be feeling great in a few weeks. Do whatever you need to get to 200 mg week of cyp. That should have your test levels around 1100.

200/week isn't trt, it's a mini cycle. Also, there's absolutely no way to predict how an individual is going to respond to a given dose. Numerous reports of skinny guys needing 150+ mg's/week to get them in a therapeutic range, and also 300 lb bb'ers who respond to 50 mg/week.

 

[The Matrix]

How do I address thyroid or adrenal issues?Test was taken @ 7am without taking Axiron yet. I normally apply it around 7:30am.

Identify with a competent health professional then address it accordingly. Applying it before the blood work 2 hours then you will have a peak. Most gels get you up to 600 if you are lucky. After 24 hours you are back down to baseline in many cases.

 

[AnabolicHolic]

Identify with a competent health professional then address it accordingly.
Apply it next time before the blood work 2 hours then you will have a peak. Most gels get you up to 600 if you are lucky. After 24 hours you are back down to baseline in many cases.

I was at 687 20 hours post application on 9 pumps (7 actual pumps since 2 should be almost 100% DHT conversion). If I used it appropriately I know for a fact I would be at 800 on 9 pumps since I have monitored it by E2pumps and I get ~80mg increase on my total test #'s per pump. Not bad to be at 7-800 at 24 hours post lowest level. And since the whole idea is to apply every 24 hours, returning to baseline is no more of a concern than if you stopped injecting 100mg per week and dropped back down a week later as opposed to days later. You guys need to "get over" the whole topical thing yeah it has drawbacks, but lets not sensationalize things that either are not drawbacks, or are drawbacks in both cases...with the only differences being in the half-life of topical vs injectable.

 

[rfarns01]

I'm just over 6 weeks into TRT via Axiron (2 pumps a day). My total testosterone shows lower than before I started? Can anyone shed some light on this?

Initial Labs:
Total Test = 291 (241-827)
T4 = 7.4 (4.5-12.0)
TSH RFLX = 2.61 (0.40-4.50)
LH = 5.4 (1.5-9)
FSH = 5.2 (2.0-9.2)
Estradiol = 13 (8.0-35)
Progesterone <10 (<10-11)
Prolactin = 4.8 (3-18)
Estrone = 64 (12-72)
SHBG = 17.0 (16.5-55.9)
Albumin = 4.8 (3.6-5.1)

6 weeks later:
Total Test = 234 (348-1197)
LH = <0.2 (1.7-8.6)
FSH = 0.5 (1.5-12.4)
Estradiol = 19.8 (7.6-42.6)
SHBG = 14.8 (16.5-55.9)
Albumin = 4.3 (3.5-5.5)

You need to be on more than two pumps, talk your doc into 4pumps per day. If your still low then look into absorbtion issues.

 

[rfarns01]

Screw the gels they are expensive and they suck. Get injectable test cypionate and you will be feeling great in a few weeks. Do whatever you need to get to 200 mg week of cyp. That should have your test levels around 1100.

Amazing you say gels suck but are preferred by top anti aging docs. This kind of answer is why none of us should take advice from a steroid forum.

 

[fueledpassion]

200/week isn't trt, it's a mini cycle. Also, there's absolutely no way to predict how an individual is going to respond to a given dose. Numerous reports of skinny guys needing 150+ mg's/week to get them in a therapeutic range, and also 300 lb bb'ers who respond to 50 mg/week.

Calling BS, sir. 150-250mg/week is standard dosing for most men. Some with exceptions can get even more. I recall for my "low" dose (as the doctor called it) back after my competition last year she stuck me with about 150-175mg/wk.

70% of the total weight is lost in conversion of Cyp esther. Keep that in mind. Also, going to a family doctor will guarantee that you get crappy dosing, maybe 100mg/wk at best. Do it right. Go to people with experience in the field such as a men's clinic and you'll easily get 200mg/wk.

 

[EasyEJL]

anything that high (200+) will have you with high RBC and hematocrit within a few months. Maybe not dangerously high, but over top of normal scale.

 

[rfarns01]

Calling BS, sir. 150-250mg/week is standard dosing for most men. Some with exceptions can get even more. I recall for my "low" dose (as the doctor called it) back after my competition last year she stuck me with about 150-175mg/wk.

70% of the total weight is lost in conversion of Cyp esther. Keep that in mind. Also, going to a family doctor will guarantee that you get crappy dosing, maybe 100mg/wk at best. Do it right. Go to people with experience in the field such as a men's clinic and you'll easily get 200mg/wk.

Calling BS, do more reading 200 mg perwk is not standard dose, then again you are referring to clinics. What a joke.

 

[AnabolicHolic]

200mg EW is ludicrous. You can get to 700-900 on damn gels, I see no reason why you can't get there with 100mg (or less) of cyp. Talk about overkill....that being said there are going to be individual cases where somebody requires 150-200mg per week for whatever reasons in order to get to high normal...but I see that being few and far between to be honest.

 

[AnabolicHolic]

Calling BS, do more reading 200 mg perwk is not standard dose, then again you are referring to clinics. What a joke.

the numbskull doctors want to keep you on 5g/4pumps androgel.....and the clinics put you on mild steroid cycle amounts like 250mg EW....can we get a happy medium here? where its effective, but not overkill?

 

[fueledpassion]

Calling BS, do more reading 200 mg perwk is not standard dose, then again you are referring to clinics. What a joke.

What research is needed when I can just talk to an endo? I don't get you guys. 200mg is quite common. It's simple. To avoid RBC counts getting too high they do 3 week on, 1 week off. A total of 3 shots per month @ 200mg. Or if you rather, some give the option of doing it every 10 days or so.

I respect you man but there is plenty of real life TRT patients getting this much or more in some cases.

 

[fueledpassion]

the numbskull doctors want to keep you on 5g/4pumps androgel.....and the clinics put you on mild steroid cycle amounts like 250mg EW....can we get a happy medium here? where its effective, but not overkill?

Well, that's a fairly relative thing to consider. I agree that docs are scared to even poke you with steroids because of the scare tactics the government and media have placed on them over the past 20 years and the clinics are more concerned about returning customers but still neither of these are malpractice if the bloods are monitored & responded to periodically. That's what men's clinics do, They monitor the bloods and if estrogen is in check and th CBC looks to be in the normal range - they continue the dosing protocol...assuming the patient is getting results like increased libido and a sense of well-being. I've also heard of docs pulling blood once every 4-6 weeks to keep the blood levels down. They pretty much do whatever needs to be done to get the results desired without the sides associated with running Test.

How many of you have even had 200-300mg of test per week anyways? It's mild at best. Might get a few measily pounds of water from it.

 

[AnabolicHolic]

Well, that's a fairly relative thing to consider. I agree that docs are scared to even poke you with steroids because of the scare tactics the government and media have placed on them over the past 20 years and the clinics are more concerned about returning customers but still neither of these are malpractice if the bloods are monitored & responded to periodically. That's what men's clinics do, They monitor the bloods and if estrogen is in check and th CBC looks to be in the normal range - they continue the dosing protocol...assuming the patient is getting results like increased libido and a sense of well-being. I've also heard of docs pulling blood once every 4-6 weeks to keep the blood levels down. They pretty much do whatever needs to be done to get the results desired without the sides associated with running Test.

How many of you have even had 200-300mg of test per week anyways? It's mild at best. Might get a few measily pounds of water from it.

I think 250mg is a good first cycle dose actually. But do i want 250mg coursing through me EW for the rest of my life? no. That is WAY too much. It abuse not therapy, sorry. IF an individual needs 200+ mg per week to maintain a 700-900 test #? that is therapy not abuse. 200+ will get most of us to 1000-1200 easy....which is uneccesssary and way overboard. i dont know why anybody would aspire to having that high of a test level 365.

 

[napalm]

Calling BS, sir. 150-250mg/week is standard dosing for most men. Some with exceptions can get even more. I recall for my "low" dose (as the doctor called it) back after my competition last year she stuck me with about 150-175mg/wk.

70% of the total weight is lost in conversion of Cyp esther. Keep that in mind. Also, going to a family doctor will guarantee that you get crappy dosing, maybe 100mg/wk at best. Do it right. Go to people with experience in the field such as a men's clinic and you'll easily get 200mg/wk.

That's cool, you can call BS. In my experience, I've came across very few people NEEDING more than 100-125/week to put them in a therapeutic range. Wanting 150/250 a week, and needing that much to put you therapeutic are 2 completely different things.

I've encountered more guys trying to job their doc into prescribing more than they need, to do blasts or whatever, by manipulating their levels before testing than guys needing that much to make them feel better. Dam bro, just check out the posts on this forum!

Now, the anti aging clinics are a whole different ball game. They'll prescribe you that much so they can give you ai's or whatever. The bottom line at the anti aging clinic is $$$

With that much test come e2 issues for most men, plain and simple.

Finally, I want to qualify all of this by saying I know dose response is individual, but the vast majority of guys don't need 200/week to put them therapeutic.

Using myself as an example, I felt like crap at 150/week. T, e2, hgb and hct were all sky high. Now, 50 every 4 days...

 

[napalm]

they do 3 week on, 1 week off. A total of 3 shots per month @ 200mg. Or if you rather, some give the option of doing it every 10 days or so.

yeah, but the only problem with this is the half life of rbc's is 55 days. even with that one week off, i'll wager that hgb and hct are still high.

on 150/week, my hgb was 20.5 and hct was f'ing 57!

 

[EasyEJL]

Well, that's a fairly relative thing to consider. I agree that docs are scared to even poke you with steroids because of the scare tactics the government and media have placed on them over the past 20 years and the clinics are more concerned about returning customers but still neither of these are malpractice if the bloods are monitored & responded to periodically. That's what men's clinics do, They monitor the bloods and if estrogen is in check and th CBC looks to be in the normal range - they continue the dosing protocol...assuming the patient is getting results like increased libido and a sense of well-being. I've also heard of docs pulling blood once every 4-6 weeks to keep the blood levels down. They pretty much do whatever needs to be done to get the results desired without the sides associated with running Test.

How many of you have even had 200-300mg of test per week anyways? It's mild at best. Might get a few measily pounds of water from it.

200 every 10 days is different than 200 a week... and sure that is mild as far as cycling goes, but as far as human levels of testosterone it puts you well over what have ever been recorded naturally in a human. How bad that is long term for your health is another question. More people die from prescription drugs than anything, like you really want to be at suprahuman levels lifetime? Like the levels of a healthy 18 year old aren't enough?

 

[AnabolicHolic]

200 every 10 days is different than 200 a week... and sure that is mild as far as cycling goes, but as far as human levels of testosterone it puts you well over what have ever been recorded naturally in a human. How bad that is long term for your health is another question. More people die from prescription drugs than anything, like you really want to be at suprahuman levels lifetime? Like the levels of a healthy 18 year old aren't enough?

Right....the major point here is not RBC or anything of that nature (but its part of the larger issue)....its being on supra-physiological levels of testosterone (as in "cycle strength" mg amounts) for 10-15-20-30 or more years. Imagine all the deleterious health effects that would come up! My God man.....Anything approaching 200mg (and above) is cycle strength mg amounts of testosterone. Apparently young man normal/high normal is "not good enough" for some.

 

[fueledpassion]

This may all be true but I have yet to experience a 100-150mg dose that I could even recognize in my system. Simply put, the low TRT or therapeutic dose doesn't accomplish anything with me except holding my natural system back from doing its job, lol. I'd rather have 500-600 T levels running endogenous remedies than to have 700-900 T levels feeling shut down and like a pile of crap.

And thats what I have told the doctor that wanted to put me on TRT @ 200mg/wk. I told her either give me Clomid/HCG or make it worthwhile to me to run TRT. 200mg isn't worthwhile. It's that point in the road that is too much to be healthy and yet not enough to make gains or feel good. Either endogenous remedies, or 300+ is what I'm looking for.

 

[fueledpassion]

200 every 10 days is different than 200 a week... and sure that is mild as far as cycling goes, but as far as human levels of testosterone it puts you well over what have ever been recorded naturally in a human. How bad that is long term for your health is another question. More people die from prescription drugs than anything, like you really want to be at suprahuman levels lifetime? Like the levels of a healthy 18 year old aren't enough?

Kinda going back to my post above: the point of running TRT is to feel and perform better. Its not whether a healthy 18 year old isn't enough. I can think of plenty of 18 year olds that I wish I had the same hormonal genetics/responses to when it comes to weight training. Yet, if I could feel good & energetic on 300 T levels I'd be ok with that too. To me its not about the number as much as it is about how it is performing in my body.

 

[napalm]

I look at it the opposite way: you body is so used to supraphysiological T levels, it wouldn't know a therapeutic range if it tripped over it.

And low dose trt holding your natural system back from doing it's job is nonsense...

 

[EasyEJL]

Kinda going back to my post above: the point of running TRT is to feel and perform better. Its not whether a healthy 18 year old isn't enough. I can think of plenty of 18 year olds that I wish I had the same hormonal genetics/responses to when it comes to weight training. Yet, if I could feel good & energetic on 300 T levels I'd be ok with that too. To me its not about the number as much as it is about how it is performing in my body.

The part that you seem to be missing is that if you don't feel good at a T level you can reach on 150mg every 7 days, then your base problem isn't your testosterone level. And so for your health - not just how you feel - its more important to look for the other causes of you feeling like crap, instead of overmedicating with testosterone to make up for something else.

 

[fueledpassion]

I look at it the opposite way: you body is so used to supraphysiological T levels, it wouldn't know a therapeutic range if it tripped over it.

And low dose trt holding your natural system back from doing it's job is nonsense...

so TRT doesn't shut you down? Is that what you are saying?

I believe I need to shed more light on my situation so that you guys can understand what I meant by that statement. I came off a cycle a long while ago and went to the clinic to get endogenous medication such as HCG or Clomid for temporary use. The clinic insisted on me taking TRT since I was "eligible" for it. I chose not to. My thought was to try and get my natural HPTA working again, not placing a band-aid over it w/ TRT. They wouldn't provide me with much any other option except TRT. So I left. Why did I do that? It's simple. I wanted to have a prescription grade PCT to recover my function, not further suppress it.

So yes, it would have clearly kept me shut down if I decided to go with TRT instead. See my point?

 

[fueledpassion]

The part that you seem to be missing is that if you don't feel good at a T level you can reach on 150mg every 7 days, then your base problem isn't your testosterone level. And so for your health - not just how you feel - its more important to look for the other causes of you feeling like crap, instead of overmedicating with testosterone to make up for something else.

You'd be incorrect to think I missed anything regarding your statement above. I never spoke about other conditions of mine or even hinted that I didn't thoroughly look elsewhere for solutions. And I never indicated that the doctor didn't do that either.

You guys are right about the TRT dosing. But 200 is still common place in the area I live in (regardless what you think or know about that dosing protocol). If an entire group of medical professionals are willing to do it then they probably have some validity to their reasoning. And to add to that, I just look at others to be a bit prideful in their position who call those professionals ignorant, a joke, or othewise incompetent in this field of study.


That's the problem with overly scientific forums such as this one. Everyone is so sure and so prideful in their own stance that "a" truth of the matter ends up getting missed or otherwise ignored.

 

[EasyEJL]

You'd be incorrect to think I missed anything regarding your statement above. I never spoke about other conditions of mine or even hinted that I didn't thoroughly look elsewhere for solutions. And I never indicated that the doctor didn't do that either.

You guys are right about the TRT dosing. But 200 is still common place in the area I live in (regardless what you think or know about that dosing protocol). If an entire group of medical professionals are willing to do it then they probably have some validity to their reasoning.

the validity to their reasoning is "I make a commission off the compounding pharmacy that I send him to on the testosterone, and make a commission on the additional blood tests I make him get, and make additional ______ " I'm not saying 200 isn't commonplace, but its only commonplace in antiaging or "men's clinics" that generally don't take insurance and have plenty of other shadiness. Most of them don't even have a specialization in that area, its just a quick profit like the medical fat loss. Last one here I talked to was an ear nose throat doctor by training. But that doesn't pay as well.

 

[napalm]

so TRT doesn't shut you down? Is that what you are saying?

I believe I need to shed more light on my situation so that you guys can understand what I meant by that statement. I came off a cycle a long while ago and went to the clinic to get endogenous medication such as HCG or Clomid for temporary use. The clinic insisted on me taking TRT since I was "eligible" for it. I chose not to. My thought was to try and get my natural HPTA working again, not placing a band-aid over it w/ TRT. They wouldn't provide me with much any other option except TRT. So I left. Why did I do that? It's simple. I wanted to have a prescription grade PCT to recover my function, not further suppress it.

So yes, it would have clearly kept me shut down if I decided to go with TRT instead. See my point?

Not what I said at all. My point is, if your "natural system" was doing it's job you wouldn't need trt. 2nd point is that your body is so used to the T levels on >250 that of course you wouldn't feel good at 100. That is why you're on trt correct, to feel better? Trying to follow your logic is getting a little difficult. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but it's starting to sound like previous steroid use is at the heart of your problem.

 

[napalm]

You'd be incorrect to think I missed anything regarding your statement above. I never spoke about other conditions of mine or even hinted that I didn't thoroughly look elsewhere for solutions. And I never indicated that the doctor didn't do that either.

You guys are right about the TRT dosing. But 200 is still common place in the area I live in (regardless what you think or know about that dosing protocol). If an entire group of medical professionals are willing to do it then they probably have some validity to their reasoning. And to add to that, I just look at others to be a bit prideful in their position who call those professionals ignorant, a joke, or othewise incompetent in this field of study.

That's the problem with overly scientific forums such as this one. Everyone is so sure and so prideful in their own stance that "a" truth of the matter ends up getting missed or otherwise ignored.

I'm sorry, I don't consider the anti aging community an "entire group of medical professionals." I consider them a small vocal minority who's after one thing: $$$

I go to an endo who's a published researcher in trt. I'll listen to his advice over the anti aging clinics.

And if 200 is a standard trt dose where you live, I would venture to guess there's a lot of anti aging clinics in your area...

 

[fueledpassion]

the validity to their reasoning is "I make a commission off the compounding pharmacy that I send him to on the testosterone, and make a commission on the additional blood tests I make him get, and make additional ______ " I'm not saying 200 isn't commonplace, but its only commonplace in antiaging or "men's clinics" that generally don't take insurance and have plenty of other shadiness. Most of them don't even have a specialization in that area, its just a quick profit like the medical fat loss. Last one here I talked to was an ear nose throat doctor by training. But that doesn't pay as well.

This is true. Although this particular clinic was in fact taking insurance. However I heard recently from a patient that they removed insurance policy and moved to cash system.

So they look to be guilty of what you just claimed.

 

[fueledpassion]

I'm sorry, I don't consider the anti aging community an "entire group of medical professionals." I consider them a small vocal minority who's after one thing: $$$

I go to an endo who's a published researcher in trt. I'll listen to his advice over the anti aging clinics.

And if 200 is a standard trt dose where you live, I would venture to guess there's a lot of anti aging clinics in your area...

Yeah, maybe half a dozen different companies. Some with multiple locations. Its a booming business for 40-somethings that go to the gym regularly around here. Every one is jacked, lol. Even the old guys now.

 

[EasyEJL]

Yeah, maybe half a dozen different companies. Some with multiple locations. Its a booming business for 40-somethings that go to the gym regularly around here. Every one is jacked, lol. Even the old guys now.

its how I started on TRT too. That was before any other anabolics, I at 39 had roughly average of around 270 total test. I tried getting appointments through insurance with endocrinologists but found out that I had a 4-6 month wait, and I wanted to do something first. First antiaging clinic prescribed 300mg /wk with .5mg arimidex EOD and 500iu HCG 2x a week, and would have happily prescribed HGH, winstrol, deca, or just about anything else as well, it was all in their price list. That doesn't make it legitimate medical help.

 

[napalm]

First antiaging clinic prescribed 300mg /wk with .5mg arimidex EOD and 500iu HCG 2x a week, and would have happily prescribed HGH, winstrol, deca, or just about anything else as well, it was all in their price list. That doesn't make it legitimate medical help.

Lord, this is a perfect example of the point I was trying to make. They're not in your best interest, but their wallets...

 

[EasyEJL]

Lord, this is a perfect example of the point I was trying to make. They're not in your best interest, but their wallets...

it felt good though

 

[BigV]

Not absorbing
Switch to shots or address thyroid or adrenal issues.

When was test taken in relationship to the application?

How do I address thyroid or adrenal issues?

Test was taken @ 7am without taking Axiron yet. I normally apply it around 7:30am.

If you don't apply the T before the test then of course it is going to show low as you are 20hr+ after last application.... although I am completely guilty of doing the same thing.

The starting dose is often very cautious on transdermals, if it were me I would at least consider trying a dosage increase before giving up on the idea completely.

I don't understand the hate for gels... some of the best Drs recommend them..... also, more is not always more when it comes to test.

I've achieved peak levels in excess of 1000 and can comfortably keep a nice 700 on testogel (aka androgel), I just don't get why so few are willing to give them a fair chance. Seems like everyone on these types of forums just wants to score a script for T at 250 inject a week, which is not really TRT dosage.

 

[WPChickDiesel]

How do I address thyroid or adrenal issues?

Test was taken @ 7am without taking Axiron yet. I normally apply it around 7:30am.

I think he was referring to when then lab test were taken in relation to how far into the medication daily doses you were. Like were the test for your levels taken one or two weeks after they started you?

If test levels were lower Im surprised they didn't administer a thyroid panel to check your blood levels for all adrenal hormone activity.

Did they prescribe to you an anti-estrogen...typically they recommend something mild to start like 10mg of tamoxifen.

 

[AnabolicHolic]

That is the only reason I am considering an anti-aging clinic......to get GH The test I will just get from my doctor, (fully) legal. If I want DHT gel or caps? I can also get that pretty easy. Good legit GH is hard to find/get prescribed. I live in South Florida so there are anti-aging clinics all around the place....everybody is "old" down here.

 

[EasyEJL]

That is the only reason I am considering an anti-aging clinic......to get GH The test I will just get from my doctor, (fully) legal. If I want DHT gel or caps? I can also get that pretty easy. Good legit GH is hard to find/get prescribed. I live in South Florida so there are anti-aging clinics all around the place....everybody is "old" down here.

right, but you'll pay $200+ per 15iu....

 

[napalm]

That is the only reason I am considering an anti-aging clinic......to get GH The test I will just get from my doctor, (fully) legal. If I want DHT gel or caps? I can also get that pretty easy. Good legit GH is hard to find/get prescribed. I live in South Florida so there are anti-aging clinics all around the place....everybody is "old" down here.

If they give you GH w/o a glucose tolerance test, it's a complete money grab.

 

[napalm]

right, but you'll pay $200+ per 15iu....

I pay ahem, $9 through my insurance...

 

[fueledpassion]

its how I started on TRT too. That was before any other anabolics, I at 39 had roughly average of around 270 total test. I tried getting appointments through insurance with endocrinologists but found out that I had a 4-6 month wait, and I wanted to do something first. First antiaging clinic prescribed 300mg /wk with .5mg arimidex EOD and 500iu HCG 2x a week, and would have happily prescribed HGH, winstrol, deca, or just about anything else as well, it was all in their price list. That doesn't make it legitimate medical help.

The particular company I am referring to is not near as liberal as your example. That is plain crazy that doctors would even prescribe the list you just dished out. Those are all scheduled and some entirely banned from the states for any use.

The amount of people I know on 300mg/wk with a prescription could be counted on one hand.

 

[fueledpassion]

I pay ahem, $9 through my insurance...

That's also crazy, too. Your insurance must really love you.

 

[napalm]

That's also crazy, too. Your insurance must really love you.

Yeah, the pens are a grand retail.

Yay hypopituitarism...

 

[AnabolicHolic]

right, but you'll pay $200+ per 15iu....

this is the reason I have not moved forward with it.

 

[napalm]

this is the reason I have not moved forward with it.

There's always the napalm method of getting hgh: 2 skull fractures...

 

[AnabolicHolic]

There's always the napalm method of getting hgh: 2 skull fractures...

lol, I fcked myself up enough by accident without trying too....I don't know if causing myself major head trauma to get GH for a couple bucks a month is worth it..... let me think about it