Guest viewing limit reached
  • You have reached the maximum number of guest views allowed
  • Please register below to remove this limitation

25R-Diol suppression- Pub Med article?

soma

Member
Quoting this from another poster in the steroid section. Anybody heard anything like this before--this is a first for me. comments?

"i bet yall didnt know that 25R-Diol is supressive, and labeled as not.

theres articals on pub med bout it!

its in a few supps labeled as non hormanal with no pct neccesary."

Thanks for the input. I personally loved MassFX orignal and the newest version.
 
Quoting this from another poster in the steroid section. Anybody heard anything like this before--this is a first for me. comments?

"i bet yall didnt know that 25R-Diol is supressive, and labeled as not.

theres articals on pub med bout it!

its in a few supps labeled as non hormanal with no pct neccesary."

Thanks for the input. I personally loved MassFX orignal and the newest version.

So not true!! We will have the blood chemistries up shortly from the Clinical Study at Wright State University, OH. The Mass FX group showed a huge increase in testosterone and free testosterone values. The blood results also reveal that Mass FX is a very safe product to use :)
 
Subjects taking Mass FX showed a mean increase in testosterone levels of 98.75 ng/dl, while subjects not taking Mass FX showed a mean decrease of -189.5 ng/dl!

Also, the mean increase in free testosterone for Mass FX subjects was 46.35 pg/ml, while those not taking Mass FX showed a mean decrease of -41.1 pg/ml.

So, some pretty impressive results for sure :)
 

Attachments

Awesome- thats what i thought and was hoping someone would say. It just caught my attention. Thanks for clearing that up.:D

-Soma
 
Suppressive...funny! Some folks will post anything. :lol:
 
If you type in "25R-diol" as a search on pubmed, you will get a barrage of research on obscure steroidal glycocides (I got 73 "matches"), none of which are the compound found in MassFX.

A word from the wise, if someone makes a claim on the grounds, "because Pubmed says so", be wary about accepting it as fact.
 
maybe wording was wrong , but doesnt mean that it doesnt convert directly to progesterone and an analog of other hormones, which may hurt the libido, or need to regulate after a cycle.

Invalid Link Removed


and i know i have a much more difinitive article somewhere, but not on this computer.

im still searching for it
 
Invalid Link Removed


there are more, what AX has is indeed very unique, and while it doesnt pose any androgenic activity, it doesnt mean that it cant supress your levels.
 
Invalid Link Removed


there are more, what AX has is indeed very unique, and while it doesnt pose any androgenic activity, it doesnt mean that it cant supress your levels.

Well, when we have a clinical study showing that Mass FX increases testosterone levels by almost 100ng/dl, I think it's pretty evident that the unique spiro we are using, does not suppress testosterone levels.
 
None of these links are 25R-diol. They are talking about generalities of starting compounds. Yes many things are synthesized from diosgenin including DHEA.

If there was a study that was for 25R-diol that is one thing, but this is generalities about diosgenin (which 25R-diol is not, its altered to a form of DiHydroxy Diosgenin, which really changes things).

Nothing in our University Study or other bloodworks over the years even hint that it is suppressive. Its not. Not being rude either, don't take it that way. Its kind of like saying Creatine makes you bloated. Sure some do, however many forms do not. Too general.

You won't find anything in Pubmed that is an exact 25R-diol match, like Sinner said earlier.
 
None of these links are 25R-diol. They are talking about generalities of starting compounds. Yes many things are synthesized from diosgenin including DHEA.

If there was a study that was for 25R-diol that is one thing, but this is generalities about diosgenin (which 25R-diol is not, its altered to a form of DiHydroxy Diosgenin, which really changes things).

Nothing in our University Study or other bloodworks over the years even hint that it is suppressive. Its not. Not being rude either, don't take it that way. Its kind of like saying Creatine makes you bloated. Sure some do, however many forms do not. Too general.

You won't find anything in Pubmed that is an exact 25R-diol match, like Sinner said earlier.

while you are right about its uniqueness, there arent any articles except the one you guys have about it not being supressive,

but this also leads back to to BROMO concept, in which there arent many articles saying that it wont convert to an anabolic/androgenic.


if something like diosgenin can be synthesized into DHEA and other hormones, then yes it could raise testosterone, but without it being suppressive is something different.

you have something saying it raises testosterone, not that it can be used without PCT, same thing as with bromo, Theres such little published articles on the things you market, other then what you have, you have word of mouth. all is good, but still need some conclusive evidence on what happens AFTER the cycle is over, how low levels drop, if they drop, full hormone panel.

doesnt mean it doesnt work and i dislike the product, but to be safe, if something is an anabolic, raises testosterone, it may infact need PCT. even if it poses no androgen potential.

Something all natural (that doesnt supress you) that works, are few and far between, maybe u guys have the only magic formula with your unique formulations, but i doubt that they dont need PCT, i believe some will be needed.
 
Something all natural (that doesnt supress you) that works, are few and far between, maybe u guys have the only magic formula with your unique formulations, but i doubt that they dont need PCT, i believe some will be needed.

No, seriously, none needed here. For real. Nothing. Not sure how else I can say it. Nada. ;) :thumbsup:
 
We will agree to disagree on the 25R. I would recommend it all day to anyone to take with a PCT. I have seen no evidence in blood work that it is suppressive for two years now. That combined with the fact that it is no longer regular Diosgenin or close to it really. That one I am not buying. My final answer based on a few years of bloodwork and now a clinical study........not suppressive at all.

I however won't argue on the 6-bromo. That is the reason we have two isomers. Hyperdrol is about 40-50% A (which "could" potentially convert", and aPCT is all B (which does not convert).

So will taking Hyperdrol mess with your PCT? eh, probably not but lets be safe and take aPCT which only has B isomers. That's something we can agree on.
 
Subjects taking Mass FX showed a mean increase in testosterone levels of 98.75 ng/dl, while subjects not taking Mass FX showed a mean decrease of -189.5 ng/dl!

Also, the mean increase in free testosterone for Mass FX subjects was 46.35 pg/ml, while those not taking Mass FX showed a mean decrease of -41.1 pg/ml.

So, some pretty impressive results for sure :)

Very nice gentlemen! :D
 
25R-diol is closest related too


RUIZGENIN

im still looking for a full article on it , i can find a full one.


as far as the bromo

why do you say the beta bromo doesnt convert? its a much weaker isomer
 
As soon as they are finished, Easy. The Univ. has it in their hands, and as soon as we have it in our's, you'll have it in your's. :thumbsup: I think the ETA is like 2-3 weeks, but don't quote me on that unless you saw BigSmith or Biceps mention it already.
 
why do you say the beta bromo doesnt convert? its a much weaker isomer

I say it does not convert, because it does not convert. The isomer has different properties.

While 25R-diol is close to RUIZGENIN, its not RUIZGENIN. So if an article was posted that RUIZGENIN caused you to grow a third ear, our findings and study findings show that you won't grow a third ear, my opinion would be that 25R-diol will not cause you to grow a third ear.

Things that are close can act in very different ways, much like the bromo isomers.
 
I say it does not convert, because it does not convert. The isomer has different properties.

While 25R-diol is close to RUIZGENIN, its not RUIZGENIN. So if an article was posted that RUIZGENIN caused you to grow a third ear, our findings and study findings show that you won't grow a third ear, my opinion would be that 25R-diol will not cause you to grow a third ear.

Things that are close can act in very different ways, much like the bromo isomers.


ok but 25R-diol binds to the androgen receptor, although being 5a reduced lowing its androgenic properties, doesnt mean that it wont supress you.... probably at higher doses it does, like 11oxo, low doses no suppression/little, higher doses suppression.

and wheres the study that say specifically 6b-bromo will not convert to 6b bromotest?
 
Subjects taking Mass FX showed a mean increase in testosterone levels of 98.75 ng/dl, while subjects not taking Mass FX showed a mean decrease of -189.5 ng/dl!

Also, the mean increase in free testosterone for Mass FX subjects was 46.35 pg/ml, while those not taking Mass FX showed a mean decrease of -41.1 pg/ml.

So, some pretty impressive results for sure :)

Biceps...I wondered when I would see your handle on this board?! :box: It is great to see you posting.

Oh yeah, are you aware of Mass FX utilized in the pilot (original or Maximum Strength)? Thanks.
 
There is too much steric strain that is caused by the bromo group at this position for the enzyme to get close enough to reduce the ketone.


then why not on the alph isomer, the ring is much more stable.

is the steric strain caused by the size of the bromo, or the electornegativity of the molecule.
 
then why not on the alph isomer, the ring is much more stable.

is the steric strain caused by the size of the bromo, or the electornegativity of the molecule.

Are you confusing alpha and beta, as in 5-AR/5-BR isomers?

This is not the case. C6 has two hydrogens which can be replaced with a bromine; therefore, two places where the bromine can attach. This makes for 2 different isomers.

steric strain is a repulsive force between two points in a molecule(s). Repulsive forces can be calculated via Coloumb's law, so the strain is proportional to the size, electronegative charge, and position.
 
Are you confusing alpha and beta, as in 5-AR/5-BR isomers?

This is not the case. C6 has two hydrogens which can be replaced with a bromine; therefore, two places where the bromine can attach. This makes for 2 different isomers.

steric strain is a repulsive force between two points in a molecule(s). Repulsive forces can be calculated via Coloumb's law, so the strain is proportional to the size, electronegative charge, and position.


no im not confusing the two lol, im just not understanding why it convert to bromo test on the alpha isomer, but not on the beta isomer.

ive seen studies in which they do infact conver to bromo test, i havent see one that say a specific isomer doesnt convert in the the androgen metabolite.
 
Biceps...I wondered when I would see your handle on this board?! :box: It is great to see you posting.

Oh yeah, are you aware of Mass FX utilized in the pilot (original or Maximum Strength)? Thanks.

Hey, great to see you too! I've been working behind the scenes a lot lately so I haven't been on too regularly.

Oh, and as Sinner pointed out, the original Mass FX was used in the study. However, the same base compounds (divanil and 25Rdiol) are used in the new Maximum Strength formula:thumbsup:
 
Anyone know how this suppression issure is affected by the Spiro in BAM by ALRI???

Mr.50


There was an interview up with ALR when BAM was first released. If I remember correctly, about half way through your question is answered. I don't remember myself.

Invalid Link Removed
 
Hey, great to see you too! I've been working behind the scenes a lot lately so I haven't been on too regularly.

Oh, and as Sinner pointed out, the original Mass FX was used in the study. However, the same base compounds (divanil and 25Rdiol) are used in the new Maximum Strength formula:thumbsup:

No worries...just glad to see you posting. You are a real asset to any board (not sure how many you frequent these days). Your dedication to the sport is unmatched!!!

Mass FX Maximum Strength...thanks for the info. Well I have five boxes burning a whole in the bottom of my fridge. I can't wait to start a cycle, most likely stacked with Hyperdrol x2.

Hey, does AX (or Dr. D) still recommend Mass FX as part of PCT? :think: Thanks Ken!
 
There was an interview up with ALR when BAM was first released. If I remember correctly, about half way through your question is answered. I don't remember myself.

Invalid Link Removed


Thanks Biceps. So it looks like the results of the study really only directly apply to MassFx and BAM may or may not exert similar effects as MassFx?

Mr.50
 
HOLY ****!! are you ALL phd's in Chemistry.
But THANKS for close to solid info..all most""
now what is this new M1 Test... 700 times more Anabolic.some wrote...but ok they were selling,so????
just currius.. arent you???
 
Yeah, I'm kinda confused at this point, too.

I'm just going to go ahead and bump another thread now. :cheers:
 
Back
Top