2 DAYS ON RECREATE/PWFULL/AP-feeling like an alpha FE-MALE !!!

TimberLakers said:
Do you have a proper Goranda bar setup at your gym?

I don't really have a choice... Just standard and wide grips conventional dips.
Click to expand...

I wish we had a V-Bar, but no such luck. You can emulate Gironda Dips on a standard straight-bar dip station via changing your center of gravity and grip, though. Most people tend to grip the bar and bend their wrists toward their body, place their shoulders behind their center of gravity, and push upwards; rather than activate the pectorals, this primarily activates your anterior deltoids and triceps. To emulate the GDIP, you bend your wrists outward to either side, bring your feet past your chest to alter the center of gravity, and push downward with the chest. The natural consequent of bending your wrists outward is the movement of the elbow and shoulder will follow, largely deactivating them; thus, a more complete pectoral movement. If you bend your wrists in the standard fashion, inward toward your body, you naturally end up pushing down with your deltoids and shoulders.

I think most people also focus on pushing their body "up", whereas Gironda usually emphasized pushing the floor "down". I feel focusing on lifting the body up tends to produce movement and a truncated range of motion, whereas focusing on pushing the floor "down" tends to help you focus on your boobies more.
 
As to the hand position of the G-dip, are you saying the knuckles will be facing inward (palms away from the body)? I've tried this on our normal dip bars and my wrists were not have'n it, so tried normal grip, but legs up toward my chest, like the end position of a leg lift crunch, but I don't think I was feeling it in the right places.
 
VolcomX311 said:
As to the hand position of the G-dip, are you saying the knuckles will be facing inward (palms away from the body)? I've tried this on our normal dip bars and my wrists were not have'n it, so tried normal grip, but legs up toward my chest, like the end position of a leg lift crunch, but I don't think I was feeling it in the right places.
Click to expand...

I think I see what you are saying, in which case that is the positioning of the hands. I use tape on my wrists for chest day, so I never really ran into problems. I find this way and/or proper Gironda-bar dips are the most effective way to isolate the pectorals with dips. Consider the mechanics of both sets of movements. In a standard dip, due to the positioning of the hands, the range of motion of the pectorals is always truncated: as you come down on the eccentric motion, you are primarily stretching the anterior deltoids, and the last 50% of the concentric is the triceps. On the other hand, with GDIPs and/or emulated GDIPS, the outward positioning of the elbows forces tension on the pectoral throughout both the eccentric and concentric portion; really, only the last 15% of the lift should involved triceps if done correctly.

That is why I think of pushing the floor down, instead of pushing my body up. What I often see is people focused on the movement of their body past an invisible horizon that they set, and this causes movement along the axis of their shoulder - much like their body is moving up and down along their shoulder joint. This way, your body remains relatively static and it is your pectorals that are propelling motion.

Much of this stuff I find hard to explain with words, so this may come out a bit jumbled. It is really easy to grasp in person, though. Mullet Weird-Exercise DVD?
 
Exercise DVD, totally. I still utilize the Incline Bench, EZ Bar rows you recommended many moons ago.

I'll have to revisit the G-Dips, my primary intention when I do dips is for the pectoral stimulation.
 
Mulletsoldier said:
Do you? Yeah, those are awesome for getting that thickness in the rhombs that's so hard to achieve.
Click to expand...

I vote for a Youtube video Mulletsoldier, you can make it with your digi camera or someone elses and all confusion about this is lost :bigeyes:. Also, I don't fully understand what you are talking about and want to do this!
 
Mulletsoldier said:
I think most people also focus on pushing their body "up", whereas Gironda usually emphasized pushing the floor "down". I feel focusing on lifting the body up tends to produce movement and a truncated range of motion, whereas focusing on pushing the floor "down" tends to help you focus on your boobies more.
Click to expand...
I like focusing on booobies.. :boobies:
Mulletsoldier said:
Much of this stuff I find hard to explain with words, so this may come out a bit jumbled. It is really easy to grasp in person, though. Mullet Weird-Exercise DVD?
Click to expand...
I think you explained it rather well bro. :thumbsup:
 
TimberLakers said:
Shareeeeee? :banana:
Click to expand...

You need an incline bench and an EZ Bar.

I warm up with the 45's. Load the EZ Bar with the 45's, position the EZ Bar behind the incline bench (top of the bench).

Lay chest first against the incline bench and grab the EZ bar by the two upward facing humps.

Go to town.

Some people complain that you can't "feel" BB rows, that the stimulation too broad and lack a targeted pump, but you can feel these pumping your upper back. The close grip also taxes your rhomboids in a special way. These get me sore around the same area as deads do.
 
Mulletsoldier said:
Do you? Yeah, those are awesome for getting that thickness in the rhombs that's so hard to achieve.
Click to expand...

Clearly you do not read my logs :23:

I'm just kidding, yeah, I do love my rows, and these were a fantastic alternative for the lumbaristically challenged. I also appreciate the more specific pump I get.

People look at me sort of crazy when I do these, but the exercise looks hardcore, so there usually not condescending looks.
 
VolcomX311 said:
You need an incline bench and an EZ Bar.

I warm up with the 45's. Load the EZ Bar with the 45's, position the EZ Bar behind the incline bench (top of the bench).

Lay chest first against the incline bench and grab the EZ bar by the two upward facing humps.

Go to town.

Some people complain that you can't "feel" BB rows, that the stimulation too broad and lack a targeted pump, but you can feel these pumping your upper back. The close grip also taxes your rhomboids in a special way. These get me sore around the same area as deads do.
Click to expand...

Guessing you put the incline bench at the lowest possible setting - typically where one would place for incline DB flies? Does sound like a good exercise. I do BB rows every back workout, but you could probably do both, the latter being for more of a concentration movement.

I think the problem with BB rows is that 90% of the people load too much weight on, and make it a jerking motion (hips, calves, feet, back) instead of keeping everything still aside from the bicep and back portion. I get a great pump from the slow contraction, short pause at apex, and slow release.
 
TimberLakers said:
Guessing you put the incline bench at the lowest possible setting - typically where one would place for incline DB flies? Does sound like a good exercise. I do BB rows every back workout, but you could probably do both, the latter being for more of a concentration movement.

I think the problem with BB rows is that 90% of the people load too much weight on, and make it a jerking motion (hips, calves, feet, back) instead of keeping everything still aside from the bicep and back portion. I get a great pump from the slow contraction, short pause at apex, and slow release.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that is the setting I recommended initially. I do them as a finesse set with Crucifix Lat Pulldowns, both at 15 reps, on a 4:2:2 cadence; 3 supersets total.

Sorry for hijacking your log DFly!
 
Mulletsoldier said:
Yes, they emphasize the pectorals more. I prefer them to standard on pec., day.
Click to expand...

Mulletsoldier said:
I wish we had a V-Bar, but no such luck. You can emulate Gironda Dips on a standard straight-bar dip station via changing your center of gravity and grip, though. Most people tend to grip the bar and bend their wrists toward their body, place their shoulders behind their center of gravity, and push upwards; rather than activate the pectorals, this primarily activates your anterior deltoids and triceps. To emulate the GDIP, you bend your wrists outward to either side, bring your feet past your chest to alter the center of gravity, and push downward with the chest. The natural consequent of bending your wrists outward is the movement of the elbow and shoulder will follow, largely deactivating them; thus, a more complete pectoral movement. If you bend your wrists in the standard fashion, inward toward your body, you naturally end up pushing down with your deltoids and shoulders.

I think most people also focus on pushing their body "up", whereas Gironda usually emphasized pushing the floor "down". I feel focusing on lifting the body up tends to produce movement and a truncated range of motion, whereas focusing on pushing the floor "down" tends to help you focus on your boobies more.
Click to expand...

The main reason why I prefer standard dips, I think my boobs are big enough as they are :p

When I started doing dips it was purely to improve on tri and shoulder strength, specially the latter. Dips have done miracles for my shoulders, the left one has been my weakest link for a LOOONG time and the main reason why I wasn't able to go over 88lb on the bench for MONTHS AND MONTHS AND MONTHS :whiner: Now, after 10 weeks of regular dipping (oh, oh, I can see this one being purposely miss-interpreted :lol:) my bench is up at 115lb !!! Invalid Link Removed

Mulletsoldier said:
Much of this stuff I find hard to explain with words, so this may come out a bit jumbled. It is really easy to grasp in person, though. Mullet Weird-Exercise DVD?
Click to expand...

In the meantime .... ;)

Invalid Link Removed

TimberLakers said:
Guessing you put the incline bench at the lowest possible setting - typically where one would place for incline DB flies? Does sound like a good exercise. I do BB rows every back workout, but you could probably do both, the latter being for more of a concentration movement.

I think the problem with BB rows is that 90% of the people load too much weight on, and make it a jerking motion (hips, calves, feet, back) instead of keeping everything still aside from the bicep and back portion. I get a great pump from the slow contraction, short pause at apex, and slow release.
Click to expand...

Agree, same with single DB rows, too much of a lawnmower-starter action :pat:

Mulletsoldier said:
Yeah, that is the setting I recommended initially. I do them as a finesse set with Crucifix Lat Pulldowns, both at 15 reps, on a 4:2:2 cadence; 3 supersets total.

Sorry for hijacking your log DFly!
Click to expand...

No problem, constructive hijack is most welcome Mullet....even non-constructive, as long as it is not offensive :)
 
Also, got to say, this current routine works really well for my intended purpose, hitting Cleans & Presses right after dips ensures total tri and shoulder meltdown. On that note, I got the C&Ps up by 5lb from last week Invalid Link Removed

BB Rows were up in reps (10, 8 last week), I keep them somewhat light, purpose is simply to warm the back up for Chins. Again, seems to be highly effective. I'm feeling stronger on the chins than ever before. Soon enough I'll be hanging some plates of my waist... to test this theory further ;)
 
115lbs is awesome DF. I've never seen a "lean" girl bench that much.

There was this big, black track & field girl at Azusa Pacific University, one of the nations leading female shot putters. She looked like Ronnie Coleman from the back and she had a 225lbs, 5-6 reps bench. I might have been envious of her lat spread.

I'll re-emphasize, way to attain that strength while keeping your femininity DF.
 
I used to work with a chick that benched 275. She had some boulders for shoulders. She's actually a firefighter...I saw her the other day and she's really toned down the look a bit. Much more feminine. She was pretty beastly before. Still a buff chick, but not nearly to the same degree.
 
VolcomX311 said:
115lbs is awesome DF. I've never seen a "lean" girl bench that much.

There was this big, black track & field girl at Azusa Pacific University, one of the nations leading female shot putters. She looked like Ronnie Coleman from the back and she had a 225lbs, 5-6 reps bench. I might have been envious of her lat spread.

I'll re-emphasize, way to attain that strength while keeping your femininity DF.
Click to expand...

There is a female trainer at my gym that has competed at the Arnold Classic, and was actually in a documentary about BB'ing. Her name is Marylenne, and she is phenomenally ripped. It's sad because few men at my gym swallow their egos enough to take advice from her; however, she is a wealth of training knowledge.
 
Mulletsoldier said:
There is a female trainer at my gym that has competed at the Arnold Classic, and was actually in a documentary about BB'ing. Her name is Marylenne, and she is phenomenally ripped. It's sad because few men at my gym swallow their egos enough to take advice from her; however, she is a wealth of training knowledge.
Click to expand...

Speaking of bodybuilding documentary celebrity. There was this women who used to workout at the first gym I attended. She was a kindergarten teacher, but had full blown man abs, huge back and people called her "mama."

I was watching Jay Cutlers last DVD and there was a scene where Jay was getting tan applied to him (by an older lady) and what the heezie, it was "mama" doing the tan application. It tripped me out.
 
VolcomX311 said:
115lbs is awesome DF. I've never seen a "lean" girl bench that much.

There was this big, black track & field girl at Azusa Pacific University, one of the nations leading female shot putters. She looked like Ronnie Coleman from the back and she had a 225lbs, 5-6 reps bench. I might have been envious of her lat spread.
Click to expand...

Invalid Link Removed
I don't even want to imagine a "female" with such a lat spread that would make you jealous of it Sam !

VolcomX311 said:
I'll re-emphasize, way to attain that strength while keeping your femininity DF.
Click to expand...

That's the aim, I wouldn't want such a physique that would reflect my alpha (fe?)male mentality. That would be quite scary I think :run: :lol:

Mulletsoldier said:
There is a female trainer at my gym that has competed at the Arnold Classic, and was actually in a documentary about BB'ing. Her name is Marylenne, and she is phenomenally ripped. It's sad because few men at my gym swallow their egos enough to take advice from her; however, she is a wealth of training knowledge.
Click to expand...

Speaking of taking advices, whilst you are here Mullet I've got a few questions for you ! Invalid Link Removed

1. When is Product X going to be available for common mortals and dragons ?

2. Currently I'm on 6 Prime a day (wo days), 4 on "rest days" (I usually do some form of cardio). This scheme worked well for me in the past and it has proven effective again. I have increased the frequency and intensity of training and I continue to make decent progress.....and so I'm tempted ....Invalid Link Removed to bump Prime to 8 on wo days Invalid Link Removed

Were these queries somewhat predictable ? :lol:
 
dragonfly said:
Speaking of taking advices, whilst you are here Mullet I've got a few questions for you !

1. When is Product X going to be available for common mortals and dragons?

2. Currently I'm on 6 Prime a day (wo days), 4 on "rest days" (I usually do some form of cardio). This scheme worked well for me in the past and it has proven effective again. I have increased the frequency and intensity of training and I continue to make decent progress.....and so I'm tempted .... to bump Prime to 8 on wo days Invalid Link Removed

Were these queries somewhat predictable ? :lol:
Click to expand...

1) We will see, DFly. At the moment, the extraction is quite costly, and not at a level we feel comfortable mass-producing. Most people like to take jabs at "USPlabs' extraction", however, it is rather expensive when you develop a brand new product!

2) Are you using the 600mg or the 800mg version?
 
WEEK 10 – LEG WORKOUT 2


SUPERSET 1


1. Bosu ball DB Deadlifts
2. Squats​
​
​
**********************

3. Leg Press
​
​
​


* At the end of the first superset I wrote these words in my gym log book : I am going to die ! Invalid Link Removed :lol:

* The Bosu Deads were intense :eek: I was most determined to make myself suffer and I succeeded 100%. I decided not to go past 10 reps mainly because my grip was failing once I started playing with the 55lb DBs :rant:

* I’ve also gone back to doing squats rather than good mornings because my hams were still mildly sore from the first leg workout this week (Squats sups BB Deads & BB lunges) and I was craving some quad action. Cravings were certainly satisfied, by the time I got to the leg press I knew I wasn’t going to beat any PRs. Quads were melted, the leg press was down by 22lb :woohoo: mission accomplished !!!!!
 

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Mulletsoldier said:
1) We will see, DFly. At the moment, the extraction is quite costly, and not at a level we feel comfortable mass-producing. Most people like to take jabs at "USPlabs' extraction", however, it is rather expensive when you develop a brand new product!
Click to expand...

I can believe that :)

2) Are you using the 600mg or the 800mg version?
Click to expand...

The 600mg but I am about to run out of it so it means I'll be visiting NP soon :D
 
...a bit late with this report....

WEEK 10 BACK, CHEST, SHOULDERS

SUPERSET 1

1. Pull-Ups WG
2. Bench Press

*******************

SUPERSET 2

1. Upright BB Rows
2. Pull-Ups NG​
​



* Looks like Sundays are reserved for miraculous workouts :D

* No drastic increases in the weight I was able to move .... well, all up until the end of the session when my body kind of felt crippled ...

* I did 8 sets of weighed pull-ups and 8 sets of bench. Pull ups were up in reps and bench was up in numbers of sets at max weight (3 x 115lb - 4 reps, that is one extra set at 115lb from last week)

* The last set of Pull Ups caused me some pain...literally, I strained the right lat attempting to squeeze an extra rep. I thought to myself, uh, this is going to be fun Invalid Link Removed. Muscle strains can take a LOOONG time to heal.... I chose to ignore the pain and carry on Invalid Link Removed.....with more Pull ups, the only thing I changed was the grip. Oddly enough I performed better and I even felt more intense contraction in the lats using a narrow grip :confused: I did my best to ignore the pain Invalid Link Removedand it worked !

* Last week when I came to the point of doing the second superset, my shoulders had already received enough Invalid Link Removed from the heavy bench and so I was moving chicken weight on the rows. This week, the weight was still chicken in my eyes, but it is the progress that matters .....2 EXTRA SETS AND ++ 10lb :D
 

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dragonfly said:
Indeed they are....I find hard to make progress on pullups but that makes all the fun :twisted:
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Hell I struggle getting 8 with my body weight let alone weighted but agree it is the challenge that makes you do them every time for back workouts, oh, and the lats getting bigger is not too bad either. :djparty:
 
oufinny said:
Hell I struggle getting 8 with my body weight let alone weighted but agree it is the challenge that makes you do them every time for back workouts, oh, and the lats getting bigger is not too bad either. :djparty:
Click to expand...

Well, I'm only adding ~ 10lb extra but it is a start :)


WEEK 11 - LEGS

SUPERSET 1

1. Squats
2. Deadlifts

******************

3. BB Lunges​

* I never thought bodybuilding would become such a spiritual journey Invalid Link Removed

* My workouts never had much to do with common sense and I now realize how great that is. Logic and sense are antithesis to faith. If you want to walk on water like Jesus did, all you need to do is step out of the boat :) Crazy you say...yes I get you, it makes no sense ;)

...and so today was CRAZY, much like Sunday two weeks ago

* I have started with my famous Squat + Dead combo, deciding in advance to keep the squats same and focus on the deadlifts...self imposed limitation...oh well, I should have had more faith :pat: Anyways, climbed up on the deadlift scale by 16lb, not bad I thought....all up until it was the time to hit the lunges. I started with the same weight as last week 132lb and uh it felt ALL TOOOO HEAVY Invalid Link Removed. For the second set I stacked 11lb more and I really wasn’t enjoying myself at that point but pride kept me going (a guy I know from the gym was keeping a VERY close eye on my form Invalid Link Removed so I didn’t want to give him the pleasure of criticism :p). The thought of doing another 4 sets was making me feel like Invalid Link Removed I procrastinated about the third set and went to the loo :p ...on my way back I thought to myself, hang on, what does it matter if you feel beaten, human bodies can only handle so much Invalid Link Removed....all I need to do to lift those whimsy 143lb is to ...well, step out of the boat, ‘cause if I trust in Him, He Will help me walk Invalid Link Removed And what do you know, third time I hit 143lb it felt as light as a feather, I was so astonished I hit 143lb for the fourth time just to make sure I wasn’t dreaming :lol: I finished the session with 165lb !!! That is 22lb +Invalid Link Removed

* At this stage, my “watchful” friend told me: haha, there’s not much of you and you are lifting all that weight, you must eat more Invalid Link Removed to grow you know !

* I said: yeah you are probably right but....

...I’m redefining my bodybuilding goals as of today.

* I’m not so much interested in muscle growth, I’m more interested in spiritual growth. Put it this way, I’d rather be David than Goliath :D
 

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WEEK 11 -BIS,TRIS, BACK, SHOULDERS


SUPERSET 1

1. Dips
2. BB Rows (bent over)

SUPERSET 2

1. Chin ups
2. Cleans & Presses​

* Felt incredibly switched on today Invalid Link Removed despite being sleep-deprived (last couple of days have been intense work-wise :eek:, but it is all good :) )

* I have murdered my tris AGAIN :D
 

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* Seriously after the last triple-dropset, I felt C&Ps would have turned out to be a wasted effort...but I was wrong ;)

* Lastly came the biggest surprise, "David" with a BIT of help pulled out another MILESTONE TODAY, WEIGHED CHINUPS, FIRST TIME EVER !!!Invalid Link Removed

5 sets, BW only, is what I had done last week,

8 sets today, BW + 14lb as max :woohoo:
​
 

Attachments

Prime is on its way, along with some other stuff from NP...I should get it next week, assuming the customs don't get shocked ! Invalid Link Removed
 
8 sets weighted, good lord. You're raising the pull ups standard too high. I've not yet caught up with the old gold standard of 8-10 sets BW.

Invalid Link Removed
 
VolcomX311 said:
8 sets weighted, good lord. You're raising the pull ups standard too high. I've not yet caught up with the old gold standard of 8-10 sets BW.

Invalid Link Removed
Click to expand...

Believe and achieve Sam, that's trick :)


ARE YOU RIGHT TO BE ANGRY ?


* Last night whilst having dinner I dropped my fork on the floor. I got kind of annoyed Invalid Link Removed but then laughed at myself....and decided to watch an online sermon (I do that every day :D)...one I’ve already seen before but thought this was the appropriate time to remind myself of it :) The title of the sermon..as I pointed out - You right to be angry ? Invalid Link Removed

* Most Christians know that anger gives way to sin Invalid Link Removed, besides it is in most cases an unproductive emotion. Why ? Well because, there is simply no good reason to get angry. Invalid Link Removed

* 1st. If something pisses you off and you can’t do anything about it, then being pissed off and angry is simply a waste of energy, plus, it makes you look ugly Invalid Link Removed :lol:

* 2nd. If you can do something about it, again being pissed off is a waste of energy.....precious energy that could be instead invested in solving the problem
000202C1.gif
In my case: gosh, pick up the stupid fork, wash it & case closed, I mean, how hard is that ?!!!​

* Now, irrespective of whether you are a Christian or not, you may agree that this is a good attitude to adopt. It could save you a lot of headaches ;)

* In the sermon I watched, Pastor Bob Coy talks about a similar thing that happened to him, he said how he dropped a glass that shattered in millions of pieces. His reaction was, Oh well, look, it shattered :rofl: ! He said he was quite proud of himself for not giving in to anger. Yes, I know it is sometimes hard but it is worth trying, here is why ;)

* Unless you are as perfect as Jesus (many of Christians think they are :rolleyes:) you are unlikely to avoid being overtaken by anger....and the Bible teaches that angry people seldom do right in the eyes of God. Therefore, by not getting angry you are more likely to receive God’s grace :)

* Well what do you know, I got tested this morning. On my way out to the gym I locked myself out of the house. My initial reaction was laughter Invalid Link Removed I thought, brilliant, it is Sat morning, my room mate is in South Africa on a conference :pat: and I have no ways of getting in the house other than breaking something...oh, and I so want to workout this morning too but I’m running on empty so everything’s going to be wasted by the time I do get in the house....if I do indeed get in, in the first place !!! :lol: Let’s see, what does the Bible say, well, as long as you don’t give in to anger and trust God, HE WILL PROVIDE A WAY OUT :)

* I used my mobile to call my room mate and Invalid Link Removed GOD, he picked up. He said that his girlfriend had the keys to our house and that he would give her a call. 10 min later she gives me a call back and says she’s coming over ASAP. 20min later I’m back in the house and 5 min later I’m on my way to the gym
0002020D.gif
Not for a second did I think to skip a workout even though I was running late by 1hr and I had no breakfast... and you all know my hypo-history.

* I thought, what better way to praise the Lord, I’ll go to the gym, put my workout in His hands and see what happens
000200C1.gif


...AND THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED :biglaugh:

SUPERSET 1


1. Bosu ball DB Deadlifts
2. Squats​

*******************

3. Leg Press
​
​
​
 

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* No hypo either, in fact, this is the third consecutive time that I hadn’t gone hypo, ever since I’ve decided to play David and not Goliath :D

* After the last two workouts I even took a detour and went shopping, instead of going straight home to get my shake (despite of all the rushing hypo would catch up with me more often than not :rant:)
* On my way to the shops I thought of what Jesus said to the devil after fasting in the desert for 40 days : Man does not live on bread alone but on every word that comes from the mouth of the LORD". ...and so instead of worrying about going hypo I started reciting some Bible verses in my head

* It worked like a MIRACLE :woohoo:

* Why am I Invalid Link Removed about this “religious stuff” ? No I’m not trying to convert anyone, I know how hard it was for me to grasp some aspects of Christianity given my science background.

* The reason I’m doing it is simple. It is my duty to be a witness to God and to give Him credit for my successes. I am merely an instrument in His hands. And you know what, it is a good place to be :D
 

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WEEK 11 – BACK, CHEST, SHOULDERS


SUPERSET 1

1. Pull-Ups WG
2. Bench Press

*******************

SUPERSET 2

1. Upright BB Rows
2. Pull-Ups NG​


THE Bench was BIG TODAY :D

121LB (Invalid Link Removed6LB)
 

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* WG pullups were about the same as last week but I added extra 5lb on NG Pull ups (so far I've been only doing bodyweight).

* I didn't even finish my intraWO mix, strange.... :confused: (since this was another "running empty morning workout") ... or perhaps not ;)
 
Nice work DFly... the number keep growing.

Enjoyed the read pertaining to anger. Even without the religious background on the subject - the theory makes a lot of sense. So much energy is wasted with anger... Unfortunately, I fall victim to that on a somewhat daily basis. :dunno:
 
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