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1-t = rich man's PH?

Heat Miser said:
The more I look at this the more I go "Wow!?!" :think:

Active ingredients per 5 pumps = 23 days

1-Androsterone™ or 1-DHEA – 112.5 mg -> 1-androstenediol -> 1-testosterone. How much possible 1-testosterone could there be considering absorption and conversion? Even at 100% absorption and 100% conversion?

DHEA – 94.5 mg -> *androstenediol/*androstenedione -> testosterone. How much possible testosterone could there be considering absorption and conversion? Even at 100% absorption?

* converts ≤ 10% testosterone
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yah, i'm not sure. I've been reading this guy's standalone 1-t log and he's gained 12lbs, and is on day 18. I have not looked into what other factors could be causing the crazy weight gain, but at some level it is obviously working..

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eballarj said:
yah, i'm not sure. I've been reading this guy's standalone 1-t log and he's gained 12lbs, and is on day 18. I have not looked into what other factors could be causing the crazy weight gain, but at some level it is obviously working..

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I saw his log. I'll just say that at 200lbs and 15" arms and a 38" waist I'd be a little skeptical.

I can gain 16.66lbs in 30 mins by consuming 2 gallons of water. 1 gallon of water equals 8.33lbs

People used the "1-Testosterone" steroid at 200-400mg/day in transdermal and there was no conversion. Using 125mg of something that needs to absorb and convert twice is - well anyway.

As well, androstenediol and dione are very very poorly converting precursors to testosterone, and at that, they still are the result of a conversion of only 95mg of DHEA.
 
Heat Miser said:
I saw his log. I'll just say that at 200lbs and 15" arms and a 38" waist I'd be a little skeptical.

I can gain 16.66lbs in 30 mins by consuming 2 gallons of water. 1 gallon of water equals 8.33lbs

People used the "1-Testosterone" steroid at 200-400mg/day in transdermal and there was no conversion. Using 125mg of something that needs to absorb and convert twice is - well anyway.

As well, androstenediol and dione are very very poorly converting precursors to testosterone, and at that, they still are the result of a conversion of 95mg of DHEA.
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wow. thanks for the knowledge homae. good to know things like this. Maybe I'll just stick to trying havoc for my next cycle. I am considering mdrol as well, but protocol seems all complex (or people are just making it complex, haha).

what do you think of the new dymethazine coming out? sound legit to you?
 
The advent of legal OTC oral steroids produced a market for legal OTC ancillaries. Like anything people assume that more is better. If you notice there are guys that spend three times the cost of their OTC steroid of choice on ancillaries. Most of which they have no symptomology to need...it's just what everyone is taking.

A solid staple of anti-o and lipid protocol is a must for liver and lipid health. A staple, to me, implies that I use it anyway, so it is not a cost attributed to a cycle.

Cradiovascular issues are usually best addressed symptomatically. Ironically many of these OTC products used for cardiovascular issues takes weeks and month to be effective long after the cycles is over. They also end up costing twice or more the cost of the OTC steroid.

ALA - 600-900mg, NAC - 600-800mg, Policosinol - 20mg and I like Arjuna as well for it's plethora (excellent - got to use my favorite word today) of health benefits.

But I'm not advising or suggesting anything :D

I don't look at anything coming out.
 
What's the conversion rate of this "water"? Those weight gains sound impressive!
 
Well it was methylated and the TCE content was 10ppm. Studies show that TCE content at or above 10ppm also enhances chlorine uptake. We estimate that the conversion rate of H20 to urine to be very high.

I didn't even mention the "proprietary" heavy metal content...:head:
 
Heat Miser said:
Well it was methylated and the TCE content was 10ppm. Studies show that TCE content at or above 10ppm also enhances chlorine uptake. We estimate that the conversion rate of H20 to urine to be very high.

I didn't even mention the "proprietary" heavy metal content...:head:
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Dude, I love heavy metal during workouts.

Can I make a transdermal?
 
Heat Miser said:
The advent of legal OTC oral steroids produced a market for legal OTC ancillaries. Like anything people assume that more is better. If you notice there are guys that spend three times the cost of their OTC steroid of choice on ancillaries. Most of which they have no symptomology to need...it's just what everyone is taking.

A solid staple of anti-o and lipid protocol is a must for liver and lipid health. A staple, to me, implies that I use it anyway, so it is not a cost attributed to a cycle.

Cradiovascular issues are usually best addressed symptomatically. Ironically many of these OTC products used for cardiovascular issues takes weeks and month to be effective long after the cycles is over. They also end up costing twice or more the cost of the OTC steroid.

ALA - 600-900mg, NAC - 600-800mg, Policosinol - 20mg and I like Arjuna as well for it's plethora (excellent - got to use my favorite word today) of health benefits.

But I'm not advising or suggesting anything :D

I don't look at anything coming out.
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would you say than a OTC test booster would be beneficial to go along with any cycle, whether it's these new age(post 2006) or the old school(pre 2006) test boosters?
 
hardknock said:
would you say than a OTC test booster would be beneficial to go along with any cycle, whether it's these new age(post 2006) or the old school(pre 2006) test boosters?
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I'm not sure what you mean by test booster and along with any cycle.

If you use a test booster it could elevate your endogenous testosterone. To what level? Who knows.

If you use exogenous androgens you inhibit your endogenous testosterone.

If you use a test booster while on exogenous androgens that are in a supraphysiological levels the use of a test booster while on an androgens at supraphysiological levels seems a waste.

If you are considering a test booster for PCT that is another story. Personally I would not use them. It is my belief that PCT is the time to re-establish homeostacis not to further manipulate hormones.

Sorry. I have no advice for you or anyone using all of these OTC products.
 
Heat Miser said:
I'm not sure what you mean by test booster and along with any cycle.

If you use a test booster it could elevate your endogenous testosterone. To what level? Who knows.

If you use exogenous androgens you inhibit your endogenous testosterone.

If you use a test booster while on exogenous androgens that are in a supraphysiological levels the use of a test booster while on an androgens at supraphysiological levels seems a waste.

If you are considering a test booster for PCT that is another story. Personally I would not use them. It is my belief that PCT is the time to re-establish homeostacis not to further manipulate hormones.

Sorry. I have no advice for you or anyone using all of these OTC products.
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oh no, I understand you're not giving out advice; i've been around the steroid game for many years and have learned my share.

I was just asking for discussion sakes as to what do you think of the ideas to run an a.I. or 'natural' testosterone boosters during pct along side a serm...I guess I was really asking what your opinion was on all these new otc pct products but I didn't ask that because I know that some may take offense to your answer ... so I was asking in a political way...
 
as I browsed back through some of your posts here, I get the jist of what your answer is going to be...i pretty much agree.

i've used otc's with serms and just serms alone and honestly, i've come to the conclusion that ....
well, what works for me may not work for joe smhoe
 
has anyone seen any estimates the conversion rate/% of pp's 1-t to t?
i've searched w/no luck.
pp states it's a has a 'high' conversion rate after the 2 conversions .....but was wondering how much actually ends up as test once it's all said and done.
 
I did use the NutraPlanet TNT stack and did find the results favorable.

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So many are using far too many things at once, especially in a PCT, that it is serious ineffective overkill. If a guy puts on 20lbs in three weeks does he really think it is all muscle? Does he really believe that he can preserve all of that in PCT. At best he is preserving the water and glycogen and fat that he accrued during the mass amounts of over eating he did in the previous three weeks. Continued overeating and a kitchen sink of OTC PCT products does not constitute a successful post cycle. He got fat and stayed fat. I'm sorry but most are fooling themselves with their weight gains.

Like I said, I believe that PCT is a time to re-establish homeostacis. If you use something during PCT that alternately manipulates your hormones is that achieving homeostacis?

Anyway.../rant :)
 
Hank Vangut said:
has anyone seen any estimates the conversion rate/% of pp's 1-t to t?
i've searched w/no luck.
pp states it's a has a 'high' conversion rate after the 2 conversions .....but was wondering how much actually ends up as test once it's all said and done.
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I believe there are two actives. One is 1-DHEA and the other is DHEA. 1-DHEA's conversion results in 1-T and DHEA's conversion results in test.

The DHEA converts to androstenediol and dione (at whatever rate) and both of those convert very poorly to testosterone - like less than 10% respectively.

So assuming ~100mg of DHEA absorbs at 50% that leaves you with 50mg of DHEA. Assume that DHEA converts to diol/dione at 50% that leaves you with 25mg diol/dione. Assume that converts to test at 10% that leaves you with 2.5mg of test.

I would believe that these numbers are still too high because I don't believe DHEA converts to diol/dione at 50% and the absorption rate of 50% is pretty ambitious.

Now at what rate does 1-DHEA convert to 1-androstenediol -> 1-testosterone. Even if it is high, it is still starting at 112mg before the rate of absorption.
 
basically, the starting mgs are to low, onset...

the guy with the weight gain was taking in a lot og water, as I remember it...if all he's looking for is weight, irregardless of lbm, then cool but I'm not sure what his goals were
 
There is no argument to be made. I believe data is all that is required. There is no way, regardless of the absorption and conversion rates, there could be anything more than 112mg and 94mg of 1-DHEA and DHEA respectively.
 
Heat Miser said:
There is no argument to be made. I believe data is all that is required. There is no way, regardless of the absorption and conversion rates, there could be anything more than 112mg and 94mg of 1-DHEA and DHEA respectively.
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Wow. Your math is correct. Damn, and I just bought two bottles. :(
 
Heat Miser said:
I believe there are two actives. One is 1-DHEA and the other is DHEA. 1-DHEA's conversion results in 1-T and DHEA's conversion results in test.

The DHEA converts to androstenediol and dione (at whatever rate) and both of those convert very poorly to testosterone - like less than 10% respectively.

So assuming ~100mg of DHEA absorbs at 50% that leaves you with 50mg of DHEA. Assume that DHEA converts to diol/dione at 50% that leaves you with 25mg diol/dione. Assume that converts to test at 10% that leaves you with 2.5mg of test.

I would believe that these numbers are still too high because I don't believe DHEA converts to diol/dione at 50% and the absorption rate of 50% is pretty ambitious.

Now at what rate does 1-DHEA convert to 1-androstenediol -> 1-testosterone. Even if it is high, it is still starting at 112mg before the rate of absorption.
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thanks miser. that's probably the best breakdown i've seen so far!
 
Dammit ... that stinks ... for some reason I thought it would be better than that but I should have examined the ingredients a bit more. Though I'm sure 6 weeks of that and 6 of M14ADD at 90mg will be plenty good for 20 lbs or so:)
 
why hasnt Eric or any PP reps come in to discuss this? People have loved PPs products. Dermacrine worked great and 1-T is being marketed as Dmeracrine "on steroids". are the differences between 1-T and dermacrine (as far as gains go) that exaggerated in 1-T's marketing?

Miser, what would your ball park estimate be for how much lean muscle one can gain in a 6 week cycle of 1-t? Obviously this estimate should be taken with a grain of salt but i would love to hear your estimate nonetheless. thanks
 
Like Miser said, there's not much to discuss, it's simple math. At 100% convertion and absorbtion (completely improbable but obviously the maximum acheivable), you're still only getting 0.2 of a gram of actives...I guess you could discuss whether this was a large enough dose to acheive results...
 
gettingully1 said:
Miser, what would your ball park estimate be for how much lean muscle one can gain in a 6 week cycle of 1-t? Obviously this estimate should be taken with a grain of salt but i would love to hear your estimate nonetheless. thanks
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The amount of gains attributed to a product that will provide barely negligible anabolic actives after application? :think:

The sense of well being that can be derived from and discipline that is employed as a result of spending hundreds of dollars on supplements is a huge and sometimes sole factor in ones ability to achieve results. The results very well may have absolutely zero to do with any attributes that a product has to offer other than the fact that they are applied or consumed.
 
Iron Lungz said:
Wow. Your math is correct. Damn, and I just bought two bottles. :(
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Yeah, i was going to mention this but I didn't want to ruffle feathers...I'd rather just see who gets what from it...
 
Don't know how much i trust/care about the numbers anyway. I'll keep following the logs, which look good to me.
 
Heat Miser said:
Which is it, trust or care? Priceless :rofl:
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Well i don't trust the #s because they convert through pathways that I know nothing about and so the range of generated values could be huge and vary from person to person. I don't care because the #s are just #s. The only #'s I care about is how much weight these people are adding on, how much bench/squats are increasing, how bodyfat % is changing.

I'm skeptical about the #s behind a lot of these grey area substances anyway, maybe it's from seeing Trenadrol with 30mg capsules and with 3mg capsules, somehow being equivalent. Maybe it's because I think that some of the Superdrol clones floating around aren't even Superdrol. I put my stock in the results.
 
UnrealMachine said:
Well i don't trust the #s because they convert through pathways that I know nothing about and so the range of generated values could be huge and vary from person to person. I don't care because the #s are just #s. The only #'s I care about is how much weight these people are adding on, how much bench/squats are increasing, how bodyfat % is changing.

I'm skeptical about the #s behind a lot of these grey area substances anyway, maybe it's from seeing Trenadrol with 30mg capsules and with 3mg capsules, somehow being equivalent. Maybe it's because I think that some of the Superdrol clones floating around aren't even Superdrol. I put my stock in the results.
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You do realize that you're contradicting yourself sentence after sentence, correct?
:think:
 
All i'm saying is that my conclusions about 1T will come from the logs.
 
Let's also remember that it doesn't take much 1-Testosterone (after conversion in this case) to be a very effective anabolic, or to even shut down your endogenous test production.

The dermacrine inclusion from my understanding to help mitigate lethargy issues by adding a degree of test and estrogen into the mix. It also contains pregnenolone to attenuate 5a-R issues.

This product is also not methylated such as M1T, which in effect notes considerably less hepatic stress overall. Eric did have a thread where he talked about the conversion rates, and the science behind his formulation. There is also the primordial website that has its own forum as well. Many of these types of questions have been answered over there. I'm sure once eric sees this thread he'll answer the questions that have been asked.

People shouldn't knock this product until they try it for themselves. I'm using it myself right now, and i can tell you that it's without-a-doubt added a very nice adjunct to my cycle (Phera-Plex/1-T) as far as my gains are concerned. That is my subjective view, so take it for what it's worth, but imo it has thusfar been an effective product in my stack.
 
Heat Miser said:
I saw his log. I'll just say that at 200lbs and 15" arms and a 38" waist I'd be a little skeptical.

.
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I have to say I'm pretty disappointed to step into a thread and find myself being brought up in a negative light, when all I have done is share my experiences with a product.

I have ZERO to gain from this log from anyone, other than the support from AM members (which has been amazing up until now). I have also run a ton of logs here on AM in the past, and have never bullshitted or had gains even CLOSE to what I'm having now.


Please take it or leave it, I know I'm not an extremely experienced and shredded body builder, but I put that all on the table to begin with without inflating numbers. I'd like respect for that. I don't give a **** if you buy 1-t or not.
 
johnyq said:
I have to say I'm pretty disappointed to step into a thread and find myself being brought up in a negative light, when all I have done is share my experiences with a product.

I have done a ton of logs on AM, and none of them have been bullshit. I have ZERO to gain from this log from anyone, other that the support from AM members (which has been amazing up until now). I have also run a ton of logs here on AM in the past, and have never bullshitted or had gains even CLOSE to what I'm having now.


Please take it or leave it, I know I'm not an extremely experienced and shredded body builder, but I put that all on the table to begin with without inflating numbers. I'd like respect for that. I don't give a **** if you buy 1-t or not.
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I am sorry that you have taken offense to the stating of your stats and a skepticism as disrespect. That is not at all the intent.

The object of scrutiny is neither you or your efforts. Rest assured that there is no disrespect intended.

I have absolutely zero interest in using this product.
 
johnyq said:
I have to say I'm pretty disappointed to step into a thread and find myself being brought up in a negative light, when all I have done is share my experiences with a product.

I have done a ton of logs on AM, and none of them have been bullshit. I have ZERO to gain from this log from anyone, other that the support from AM members (which has been amazing up until now). I have also run a ton of logs here on AM in the past, and have never bullshitted or had gains even CLOSE to what I'm having now.


Please take it or leave it, I know I'm not an extremely experienced and shredded body builder, but I put that all on the table to begin with without inflating numbers. I'd like respect for that. I don't give a **** if you buy 1-t or not.
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x2222222222........Goodluck on your cycle bro
 
It just boils down to trust. If you trust Mr. Potratz you will try 1-T and find out for yourself through real world experience. Which is what JohnyQ is doing. From what I have read in his experience thus far, his gains are indeed PH like and not possible with water weight behind him. To acheive what he has done you need muscle weight gain. Again do you trust Johnyq and what he is posting. If so then you would have no problem trying 1-T.
 
Benderzzz said:
It just boils down to trust.
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Seems trust also converts at a high rate.

It does not just boil down to trust.

The product is called 1-T. Where's the 1-T?

This is reminiscent of Superdrol-NG - name recognition - no superdrol :)

It seems that PP has quietly been running under the radar. I remember that AX got read the riot AX (pun intended) and USPLabs gets dealt **** daily yet PP has been flying stealth for quite some time. Cool!


Originally Posted by LLLLERN View Post
What would 1 expect from this solo at reccomended doses

23 days at 5 pumps, 29 days at 4 pumps.
say a 200 lb person
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The same sort of gains you would expect from say… 30mg/day anavar with 400mg/wk testosterone….
-Eric
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Kool aid flavor makes a difference I guess.

I'm done. Good times.
 
Benderzzz said:
It just boils down to trust. If you trust Mr. Potratz you will try 1-T and find out for yourself through real world experience. Which is what JohnyQ is doing. From what I have read in his experience thus far, his gains are indeed PH like and not possible with water weight behind him. To acheive what he has done you need muscle weight gain. Again do you trust Johnyq and what he is posting. If so then you would have no problem trying 1-T.
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I think quite a few will agree that I am one of the least likely to start an argument, and I intend no harm but to say that all of jq's gains, from this brief run, has been NO water weight, you are implying that it must ALL or mostly be lbm. So all 10-12lbs has been lbm? That is surely absurd... taking in to account of the quickness of his weight gain and timeline of his run...don't bet the farm jeffro.
 
hardknock said:
I think quite a few will agree that I am one of the least likely to start an argument, and I intend no harm but to say that all of jq's gains, from this brief run, has been NO water weight, you are implying that it must ALL or mostly be lbm. So all 10-12lbs has been lbm? That is surely absurd... taking in to account of the quickness of his weight gain and timeline of his run...don't bet the farm jeffro.
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I have no doubts I'm holding 5ish pounds of water, the early weight just happened too fast for that not be the case. Anyways, I'm not trying to be the 1-T spokesman. I'm glad people are skeptical on AM (could have done without being used as an example, but thats ok I guess).

I think the excitement around the possibilities 1-T represents is going to be very polarizing. Let us all be patient and see how all the logs conclude.
 
hardknock said:
I think quite a few will agree that I am one of the least likely to start an argument, and I intend no harm but to say that all of jq's gains, from this brief run, has been NO water weight, you are implying that it must ALL or mostly be lbm. So all 10-12lbs has been lbm? That is surely absurd... taking in to account of the quickness of his weight gain and timeline of his run...don't bet the farm jeffro.
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No one suggested that his weight is all water gain. The analogy was made that one could easily gain 16 lbs in one half an hour by consuming 2 gallons of water.

If I persistently eat in a large surplus I will gain weight. If I persistently lift heavy things with all my might I will get stronger. If I do both simultaneously I produce an anabolic state. That is not innovative and there is no skepticism about it.

To imply that the topical application of a product that has trace amounts of actives in it before absorption and negligible amounts of active after absorption and multiple conversions is responsible for anything other than the drive and motivation that comes with a $70 investment is really - very optimistic (trying to be polite).

Placing a steroid in a transdermal is not novel or innovative. Placing a prohormone in a transdermal is not novel or innovative. The use of such a product with the anticipation and enthusiasm that one experiences after a $70 investment is not innovative or novel either.

The point is - where is the 1-Testosterone and testosterone (or any other hormone in supraphysiological levels) that this product is supposed to deliver and be responsible for these achievements?

I am not arguing with what his results are as a result of his discipline, drive, motivation, training and diet. That HE owns and I give HIM complete credit for achieving such. I think he could have saved $70 and done the same.

Also keep in mind that simply because I am a board administrator and a NP representative does not preclude me from using reason, logic and critical thinking as a consumer and recreational athlete/bodybuilder/old guy. So before anyone suggests any blasphemy or betrayal on my part to any sponsor or product keep in mind that my money spends just like everyone elses does and I and everyone else is entitled to be a critical consumer.
 
Trauma1 said:
I stand by what i recommend in regard to havoc (including cycle), or any RPN product. Opinions are like a$$holes, everyone has one. Not everyone is going to agree upon what's "The perfect cycle" for any given product.

Don't be so easily discouraged by some of the comments you encounter here. Outside the BSN stuff in that order, it looks fine to me. :)
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Agree, everyone is different and likes different thing. And being on an internet board, you need to learn to take things with a grain of salt and not take them so personallly. It will be a long road if you don't. I think most people mean well when they post. Sometimes the reader can take it the wrong way.
 
gettingully1 said:
i bought two bottles of 1-t also....ooopps? dermacrine and sustain alpha worked well for me though
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I wouldn't say ooops before I try it it could work out very well for you especially if you have never used 1-t in any form. for people like myself who have used real 1-t then it might not be potent enough. but also remember technically it will be less harsh than a methyl so that is a plus and it's legal
 
Ill be posting in just a minute… as soon as I deal with PA on bb.com….

It seems that 1-T is invoking all kinds of emotions from competitors...

-Eric
 
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