1-andro

[gettingully1]

i've used taurine for back pumps, and i think it is really effective.

how will 1-t affect blood prssure, cholesterol, and other cycling sides?

 

[EIC]

EIC,

I need to do nothing. I have not attacked you in the least other then saying you dont know what your talking about regarding compounds and their stress they can put on the liver regardless of their attachments.

This is a board for sharing knowledge and results and you were suggesting that this compound(s) could be taken without any of the support supps that are generally required. You DIDNT specify as you stated above and it would have been to your advantage to do so to not look like your comment was as ignorant as it was.

Sorry you dont like being told your incorrect but then to argue your point and think your not going to get a retaliation is just foolish.

Poops

You're right, you don't need to do anything, but you risk looking like a **** if you don't. I've already admitted that I misspoke, but there was no need to blast on the scene with a "LMFAO." Someday you'll learn that people will stop seeing you as a child when you respond to people with respect.

First, you responded to my claim that "no cycle supports" were needed by quoting PP's comment that 1-T will cause suppression. WTF was your point with that? Cycle support does not equal PCT, which I never commented on. Again, every cycle requires PCT, the question is whether the given compound will also require additional ancillary substances to be run alongside it. If not, then this is something to factor in when considering the cost of running that product.

We agree that liver issues can come from two sources: (1) Attachment agents and (2) changes wrought by the substance itself. PP's eliminated one--and, in my view, the most significant of the two--with a transdermal delivery. For me, the latter is not enough to make me want to run anything with 1-T for what will be a short cycle.

You may believe that I don't know what I'm talking about, but I'm not the only one who shares this view. See the last post (post #5) in this thread: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/primordial-performance/107080-dermacrine-stack.html#post1613475

 

[EIC]

Its ok we know who has a vested interest in this LG. Im sure you have nothing to do with this product. . . .

Sorry I state that this compound is far overpriced for what else is out there.

Good luck with your sales guys as thats all you obviously care about. Ill just stay outta your threads.

And you don't have a vested financial interest in attacking this product?

 

[jmh80]

And you don't have a vested financial interest in attacking this product?

Doubt it. People will buy Epi or whatever to run with it, like I did with 1-testosterone back in '05. (It was SD in my case.)


This thread has taken a turn for whatever. I'll ask if anyone has actually tried this stuff. Is it as irritating to the skin as 1-test?
I used 1-test in T-gel and found that sh*t irritated the living hell out of my skin.
4-AD was fine, so I know it wasn't T-gel.

I loved that stack though (will admit it was my first, which is typically the best).

Did LG give this to PP or something? I'm thinking this was the LG dermals that were talked about for 6 months or so.

 

[gettingully1]

lets move on and get this thread back on track

 

[EIC]

lets move on and get this thread back on track

Agreed. My apologies for helping steer this thing off course.

 

[jmh80]

Agreed. My apologies for helping steer this thing off course.

Wouldn't be the first time, brosef.

Don't worry.

 

[poopypants]

And you don't have a vested financial interest in attacking this product?

once again showing some ignorance here. First Off I have NO, ZERO financial interest in any product, Im a rep not an owner.

Second Ive done nothing but praised the product itself I only said it was pricey for my taste especially when other options are out there at a fraction the cost (referring namely to the $25 CEL products, not even epi which is usually 39 dollars itself). And then have been speaking to YOU about your invalid response since support supps should be a must to make any cycle optimum and produce the most gains with the least sides.

So how my posts show anything AGAINST the product itself IDK, I just dont like that no one wants to admit supports are just plain WISE to use.

 

[jmh80]

Agreed. My apologies for helping steer this thing off course.

Just saw on that thread on there board that you a Husker.

We had some hella good games in UM and NU's hey days. We got y'all 3 times in championship games and y'all got us in '94 when we had Sapp and Ray Lewis.

Wish we'd get both teams back to dominance. Looks like we play in '14 and '15 in a home and home. Can't wait to see that.

 

[jmh80]

Poop - move on broski. His comment about support supps was retardely stupid - he admitted that.

Anyone that would run anything hormonal without PCT is just asking for trouble.

Anyway - you doing alright?

 

[poopypants]

You're right, you don't need to do anything, but you risk looking like a **** if you don't. I've already admitted that I misspoke

Sure Ill look like a **** for lookin out for everyone and saying your wrong

 

[EIC]

Just saw on that thread on there board that you a Husker.

We had some hella good games in UM and NU's hey days. We got y'all 3 times in championship games and y'all got us in '94 when we had Sapp and Ray Lewis.

Wish we'd get both teams back to dominance. Looks like we play in '14 and '15 in a home and home. Can't wait to see that.

Speaking of not going off topic, lol. I agree 100%. Michigan is down too; lots of the old guard of are down these days.

Poop - move on broski. His comment about support supps was retardely stupid - he admitted that.

Anyone that would run anything hormonal without PCT is just asking for trouble.

For the record (and the last time), I never said anything about PCT. I plan on running PCT with 1-T; I was just referring to cycle support supps, which I do NOT plan on taking with it. If you don't hear from me afterwards, you can assume I didn't make it, lol.

 

[jmh80]

Speaking of not going off topic, lol. I agree 100%. Michigan is down too; lots of the old guard of are down these days.



For the record (and the last time), I never said anything about PCT. I plan on running PCT with 1-T; I was just referring to cycle support supps, which I do NOT plan on taking with it. If you don't hear from me afterwards, you can assume I didn't make it, lol.

Oh yeah - I wouldn't go with liver support. Blood pressure I would. Just because I'm not 100% what 1-test does by itself. Besides Hawthorn is cheap.

I use celery seed extract near year round anyway. I'd continue that when I take this. (Plan to buy some - loved 1-test.)

 

[gettingully1]

thanks EIC and jmho for getting this back on track - whats the suggest length of a 1-t cycle?

 

[DAdams91982]

Oh yeah - I wouldn't go with liver support. Blood pressure I would. Just because I'm not 100% what 1-test does by itself. Besides Hawthorn is cheap.

I use celery seed extract near year round anyway. I'd continue that when I take this. (Plan to buy some - loved 1-test.)

1-T is like any other anabolic. Will jack up your lipids, your blood pressure, etc. etc. It still makes it through the liver, but not being methylated alleviates most of those issues (Going TD means nothing, still hits the blood stream, still gets filtered).

LG, your opinion is blatantly wrong. if I remember correctly, you were touting M1T as safe when you all released that... and that is down right poison.

Adams

 

[LG Sciences]

How do you figure it is poison? I just find it funny, SD has had WAY more issues with people than M1T ever did and still it is very small relative to the millions of bottles of each that were sold. Very little has been ever reported as a side effect for M1T.

So, can you give me some scientific support for your "poison" statement for M1T relative to SD, Epistane, Halodrol and the others or are you just following what you read on the boards? Wasn't SD touted as a HIGHLY safe and better version of M1T when it was introduced here? Everyone lapped it up...cuz it was by the "bro's"... This is why I usually don't discuss much on the boards to be honest. I would conclude M1T to be safe...likely 1,000,000 bottles were sold, with no reported deaths or serious injuries. Sounds pretty safe to me when used as directed. How do you conclude Epistane to be "safe" relative to M1T and what basis do you use to make this conclusion?

I just have no idea why anyone would take a liver supp with a product that isn't liver stressing at all. I mean, it isn't going to hurt, but is not really necessary. Financial interest or not, what data do we have to think that things that are not 17a Methyl are liver stressing more than just general processing?

As for the price that is just dependent on what people are willing to pay and has nothing to do with me... I will leave that one to Eric to justify.

 

[Knowbull]

Whatever happened to the Transdermal 19-Nor? Is that still under consideration? I would prefer that. As a comment I want to say that my results are always better when I use a combination of supplements, Really if you exercise a guy should run support supps all year in some form or another, I do and I know professional athletes and bodybuilders do too!

 

[DAdams91982]

How do you figure it is poison? I just find it funny, SD has had WAY more issues with people than M1T ever did and still it is very small relative to the millions of bottles of each that were sold. Very little has been ever reported as a side effect for M1T.

So, can you give me some scientific support for your "poison" statement for M1T relative to SD, Epistane, Halodrol and the others or are you just following what you read on the boards? Wasn't SD touted as a HIGHLY safe and better version of M1T when it was introduced here? Everyone lapped it up...cuz it was by the "bro's"... This is why I usually don't discuss much on the boards to be honest. I would conclude M1T to be safe...likely 1,000,000 bottles were sold, with no reported deaths or serious injuries. Sounds pretty safe to me when used as directed. How do you conclude Epistane to be "safe" relative to M1T and what basis do you use to make this conclusion?

I just have no idea why anyone would take a liver supp with a product that isn't liver stressing at all. I mean, it isn't going to hurt, but is not really necessary. Financial interest or not, what data do we have to think that things that are not 17a Methyl are liver stressing more than just general processing?

As for the price that is just dependent on what people are willing to pay and has nothing to do with me... I will leave that one to Eric to justify.

I personally pissed blood when "Using as directed."

http://www.musclesci.com/forum/f246/m1t-liver-problems-38136/

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/58533-kidney-liver-infection.html

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/21514-blood-work-after.html

http://www.musclesci.com/forum/f297/help-blood-work-34227/

I could go for days and days. I am not saying other compounds aren't toxic.. IN FACT we already know they are. But the anecdotal feedback is no were in the same field as M1T. Anyone OTHER than LG will tell you this is strait poison.

Adams

 

[LG Sciences]

Those logs look really sad... One guy was doing 4 on and 4 of for 5 cycles in a row... Other than that, I see nothing to note.

Anyway, can we get back on topic? Actually forget it, its pointless to argue with BroLore...

 

[DAdams91982]

Those logs look really sad... One guy was doing 4 on and 4 of for 5 cycles in a row... Other than that, I see nothing to note.

Anyway, can we get back on topic? Actually forget it, its pointless to argue with BroLore...

If I am providing brolore, then cut me down LG. I am showing you people how have AST/ALT elevated into outerspace. Anecdotal evidence is being presented to you. If you have hard evidence to back yourself up, showing M1T is a nice little daisy on your body, then show it. I am not stopping you from cutting down my "BroLore"

Adams

 

[Royd The Noyd]

Subbin.

 

[Knowbull]

Whatever happened to the Transdermal 19-Nor? Is that still under consideration? I would prefer that. As a comment I want to say that my results are always better when I use a combination of supplements, Really if you exercise a guy should run support supps all year in some form or another, I do and I know professional athletes and bodybuilders do too!

Well, what about the 19-Nor? Some guys respond better to this, is it still under consideration?

 

[jmh80]

Well, what about the 19-Nor? Some guys respond better to this, is it still under consideration?

Bump to this, LG or PP.

 

[Eric Potratz]

Well, what about the 19-Nor? Some guys respond better to this, is it still under consideration?

I don’t like progesterone based compounds, just because of the difficulty of dealing with gyno from them.

I will probably try it though. If I get good gains without gyno issues I may consider it. [I’m normally pretty sensitive to it.]

-Pp

 

[Eric Potratz]

Sorry I state that this compound is far overpriced for what else is out there.

Can you name a product that you think will offer more results for the dollar?

I know this is purely anecdotal for alot of reasons, but I think you would be very hard pressed to find something legal that will be more cost effective than 1-T.

-Pp

 

[Knowbull]

I understand, different physiology responses, for me the less androgenic the better, sounds like another great product from PP!

 

[poopypants]

Can you name a product that you think will offer more results for the dollar?

I know this is purely anecdotal for alot of reasons, but I think you would be very hard pressed to find something legal that will be more cost effective than 1-T.

-Pp

for one Phera plex.

I also think that Halodrol may be better.

The thing is other then pheraplex, the one wet mass builder left, everything else is questionable in gains comparison including your 1-T.

This is a newer 2 step conversion that hasnt seen widespread use yet and especially not in a more bioavailable and appropriate application(for a PH requiring conversions and facing oral issues) and I will not feign that I know what THIS exact precursor combo can or cant do.

I do think that it CAN have great results... but dollar for dollar Im certain I can still get other compounds for less then half the cost and get more then half the same results. THAT is my ONLY issue with this exact product, cost.

 

[Eric Potratz]

for one Phera plex.

I also think that Halodrol may be better.

The thing is other then pheraplex, the one wet mass builder left, everything else is questionable in gains comparison including your 1-T.

This is a newer 2 step conversion that hasnt seen widespread use yet and especially not in a more bioavailable and appropriate application(for a PH requiring conversions and facing oral issues) and I will not feign that I know what THIS exact precursor combo can or cant do.

I do think that it CAN have great results... but dollar for dollar Im certain I can still get other compounds for less then half the cost and get more then half the same results. THAT is my ONLY issue with this exact product, cost.

I think you could call 1-T a wet mass builder… but less likely to cause gyno problems compared to the other “wet” products on the market just because of the balance between the non-aromatizing 1-androsterone and the slightly estrogenic DHEA.

I challenge you try 1-T at a discounted price. If you don’t think it’s more cost effective than the other legal products on the market, I’ll make sure you get a full refund.

-Pp

 

[gettingully1]

can i accept the challenge?!? i just bought dermacrine! wtf!

 

[DAdams91982]

I think you could call 1-T a wet mass builder… but less likely to cause gyno problems compared to the other “wet” products on the market just because of the balance between the non-aromatizing 1-androsterone and the slightly estrogenic DHEA.

I challenge you try 1-T at a discounted price. If you don’t think it’s more cost effective than the other legal products on the market, I’ll make sure you get a full refund.

-Pp

Again, I am not well versed in this modified DHEA. Which part is "wet"? If its the first step in the conversion I can see that... but I know the successor PH, and the end target hormone are both pretty dry.

Again, not very well versed.. so any information you have.

Adams

 

[poopypants]

Again, I am not well versed in this modified DHEA. Which part is "wet"? If its the first step in the conversion I can see that... but I know the successor PH, and the end target hormone are both pretty dry.

Again, not very well versed.. so any information you have.

Adams

Adams... DHEA itself is all wet. Its conversion steps go from DHEA to Androstenediol and androstenedione, both of which are wet as they are basically the original Andro and 4-AD. Also the Dione version can convert directly to estrone then estrodiol(estrogen) and they both convert to test which can aromatize directly to estrodiol(estrogen).

The 1-DHEA on the other hand is the dry one as its not susceptible to aromatase neither is its target hormone 1-test.

see attached chart.

 

[poopypants]

I think you could call 1-T a wet mass builder… but less likely to cause gyno problems compared to the other “wet” products on the market just because of the balance between the non-aromatizing 1-androsterone and the slightly estrogenic DHEA.

I challenge you try 1-T at a discounted price. If you don’t think it’s more cost effective than the other legal products on the market, I’ll make sure you get a full refund.

-Pp

I greatly appreciate an offer/challenge of such a type Pp and would love to offer an unbiased review of this product.

I have run nearly every available oral (DS) available now so I do feel I could make an accurate comparison to these AND to the original versions (1-AD, 4-AD) and the nasty M1-t (funny enough the one I DID like the most was my legal gear M1-T with NAC right in it and it was the first AAS/ph I ran... but wouldnt touch it now knowing what it does to ones liver and how quickly complete shutdown occurs).

Sadly sir I doubt even at a discounted price I could afford such a thing. Im currently unemployed so things are beyond tight.

If you still would like to make this offer and its close enough to what I can afford I can assure you a fair review and log of this product.

LMK my PM's are open.

 

[DAdams91982]

Adams... DHEA itself is all wet. Its conversion steps go from DHEA to Androstenediol and androstenedione, both of which are wet as they are basically the original Andro and 4-AD. Also the Dione version can convert directly to estrone then estrodiol(estrogen) and they both convert to test which can aromatize directly to estrodiol(estrogen).

The 1-DHEA on the other hand is the dry one as its not susceptible to aromatase neither is its target hormone 1-test.

see attached chart.

Oh, I know about regular break down of DHEA... the 1 is what I was question... why PP mentioned it be a wet compound... thus why I was confused.

You know this Poopster!!!

Adams

 

[poopypants]

Oh, I know about regular break down of DHEA... the 1 is what I was question... why PP mentioned it be a wet compound... thus why I was confused.

You know this Poopster!!!

Adams

LOL ya I was kinda scratchin my head there :think:

The reason I think Pp is saying it will offer wet like gains is this 1-T he is releasing is going to actually be a combo of the original dermacrine DHEA formula AND a 1-DHEA. So in that effect it should offer gains similar to 1-AD and 4-AD stacked IF the dosing is correct, steps are taken to ensure highest rates of positive conversions and 5a reductase and aromatase are at least kept slightly in check (I would think a little estrogen conversion would be beneficial for gains honestly)

 

[Eric Potratz]

can i accept the challenge?!? i just bought dermacrine! wtf!

No worries, we aren’t giving it to him for free!

And of course we offer the satisfaction guarantee for everyone... but there is no doubt in your mind the products are gonna work right?



-Pp

 

[Eric Potratz]

Oh, I know about regular break down of DHEA... the 1 is what I was question... why PP mentioned it be a wet compound... thus why I was confused.

You know this Poopster!!!

Adams

Right, I said 1-T was wet because of the DHEA. The 1-androsteone has no conversion to estrogen.

It will be like a stack of anavar and testosterone… or something to that effect which always produce good solid gains. [a dry compound with a wet compound]

-Pp

 

[Eric Potratz]

Here is a little sneak peak...

-Pp

 

[EIC]

Here is a little sneak peak...

-Pp

Wow! That's freaking SWEET!!! I've always thought PP had the nicest packaging/presentation of any company I've seen. Very, very nice.

 

[vpower]

Here is a little sneak peak...

-Pp

YES!! I better be the first to get my hands on this product. Really looking forward to this!! Good job PP!!

 

[LG Sciences]

Nice packaging.

The 19Nor's (nandrolone) don't necessarily cause gyno if you block their conversion to DHN. This will make the product stronger but also less "mild", so it is a toss up. I think the 19Nor would be really good though for people who want mass without sides and certainly for older men who want to shrink the prostate.

 

[Eric Potratz]

Nice packaging.

The 19Nor's (nandrolone) don't necessarily cause gyno if you block their conversion to DHN. This will make the product stronger but also less "mild", so it is a toss up. I think the 19Nor would be really good though for people who want mass without sides and certainly for older men who want to shrink the prostate.

DHN as in 5a-reductase?

I believe the direct activation of the progesterone receptor is unavoidable from nandrolones… Similar to how trenbolone causes gyno without aromatizing.

-Pp

 

[joeymutz]

Most guys had pretty bad back pumps with the original 1-AD and 4-AD combo and even with the two seperate.... maybe not as bad as some others but more then others.

Taurine has always been suggested as a remedy for preventing back pumps as it allows more water to be absorbed into the muscle cell and keep it from being leached. The same is my reasoning for using Poseidon or an electrolyte supplement in order to keep the muscle cells well hydrated and less likely to cramp (pump) up and cause pain, I have used Taurine with some effect (had to dose extremely high) and Poseidon with much better results.

Hey poopy you seem to know a good deal of information but i have yet to see anything backed up by any studies. When you give out advice and your knowledge about supplements you should never say i heard about it doing this and that, post studies and back up what u know.

Eric really knows his **** and will always provide information when needed. you should do the same.:cheers:

 

[LG Sciences]

DHN as in 5a-reductase?

I believe the direct activation of the progesterone receptor is unavoidable from nandrolones… Similar to how trenbolone causes gyno without aromatizing.

-Pp

I don't want to turn this into a Tren discussion, but to be honest, I don't know anyone that had ever gotten gyno on Tren. Progestins reduce estrogenic effects, they don't make them worse. DHN is FAR more likely to cause gyno from nandrolone. Bro lore as usual. I had a debate with a Dr on here and no where was I convinced that progestins cause gyno from our discussion and in fact much of the literature talks about progesterone reducing the number of ER's.

It would make sense that if DHT is one of the main AI's in the body and also effects sex drive, erections and mood, that "deca ****" would be the result of it's 50% as strong isomer DHN. Imagine 50% of a dose of AI, 50% of the neural stimulation, 50% of the penile stimulation...there is your culprit.

 

[mixedup]

That is going to be a really nice product...I would do one with a Epi/1-Andro blend for people that want dry strength.

Hey Just wanted to let everyone know I am on well not anymore but I was running MMV2 and 1-t cyp and it was Amazing if 1-Andro goes to 1-T than I believe this stack would be Awesome.

 

[poopypants]

Hey poopy you seem to know a good deal of information but i have yet to see anything backed up by any studies. When you give out advice and your knowledge about supplements you should never say i heard about it doing this and that, post studies and back up what u know.

Eric really knows his **** and will always provide information when needed. you should do the same.:cheers:

cause they do studies on guys running steroids that need to alleviate back pumps

I do post studies for much of the info I post... search my posts and youll see this. But this is beyond anecdotal and the fact that Eric has not heard of taurine used in this regard is baffling to me... its been suggested for YEARS. Doesnt mean anything less about his knowledge but this is still widely known and used in this application.

Thanks for playing.

 

[Apowerz6]

Hey poopy you seem to know a good deal of information but i have yet to see anything backed up by any studies. When you give out advice and your knowledge about supplements you should never say i heard about it doing this and that, post studies and back up what u know.

Eric really knows his **** and will always provide information when needed. you should do the same.:cheers:

Hey smart guy what studies do you know that is titled how to alleviate backpumps with taurine? What studies do you see that mostly use HUMAN participants with the steroids?And if you do they either have HIV, or are burn victims. So guess what you learn from other studies using rats, mice, bro lore, research or old remedies passed around, take some peoples advice with a grain of salt, but just because it looks good on paper does not mean it works in real life.

Poops info he gives he does recklessly advise- for sometimes the best teacher is experience.

 

[Knowbull]

Will you be more specific about how to block the conversion of DHN? How does a guy do this?

 

[Trauma1]

This looks great eric, nice work!

I'm definitley going to be picking some up for my cycle here in a few weeks.

 

[3clipseGT]

Will you be more specific about how to block the conversion of DHN? How does a guy do this?

I believe by adding Beta Sitosterol. I could be wrong though.

 

[Eric Potratz]

Will you be more specific about how to block the conversion of DHN? How does a guy do this?

Yeah, you could block it by a 5a-reductase inhibitor, such as progesterone.

In regards to LG’s theory -- I’ve never used DHN so I wouldn’t know how likely it is to cause gyno, but I know for a fact trenbolone is a very causative factor for gyno growth. Whatever the cause, Im not exactly sure. The antagonistic relationship of estrogen and progesterone is complex but progesterone promotes the growth of mammary glands and is synergistic with estrogen in regards to its overall growth, just as GH and prolactin are.

Besides, I can’t picture the DHN theory working since the weaker DHT is also accompanied by a weaker estrogen, so theoretically this would be a wash.

-Pp