Building Back Up

GreenMachineX said:
Thanks for the clarification. I assumed I was a wuss…I still do, just less so 😂
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lol I never thought about it but yeah it is a huge difference. If I work bb rows up to say like 185-205 I'm probably not going to 135 on t-bar. I usually cap it around 90 for sets to failure.
 
Dustin07 said:
lol I never thought about it but yeah it is a huge difference. If I work bb rows up to say like 185-205 I'm probably not going to 135 on t-bar. I usually cap it around 90 for sets to failure.
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Well, you can tell I thought about it hard enough to figure it out! LOL
 
Smont said:
Do either of you guys do dead stop rows off the floor
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occasionally. My buddy prefers to do them that way, IIRC I think he also does reverse grip. I have done them a few times with him but for whatever reason they do tend to irritate my elbow more? If I'm doing very heavy bb rows I will typically put on a belt over 185lbs, I will allow cheating, and I use my own gauge to decide if the cheater reps were too much, I always do a drop set for very strict TUT pumps. often times though I just do a quick 3x10x135lbs post deadlifts to hit the lats real quick and move on.
 
Smont said:
Do either of you guys do dead stop rows off the floor
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No, there was a time I did some kind of row like that…don’t recall the name, but it was more explosive. Didn’t really like it. T Bar rows seem to be building the upper middle area of my back finally. Do you recommend them?
 
GreenMachineX said:
Weight: 209.0

Standing OHP 5x95, 5x115, 5/5/4 x 135
Dips 10/10/8
Leg Press Top Set 6 x 360
Cable Upright Row 3 sets
Rope Pressdowns 3 sets

Been stuck around 209 for a week even though calories have been in a deficit overall. Oh well, I’ll keep driving on.

Felt a pump in the lateral delts from the standing BB OHP. Guess I’ve been missing out there. DB OHP is out now. Dip strength finally going back up.
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Interesting…it’s been a year since I hit that low. I think I’m stronger now than then, and possibly just a touch leaner…maybe. Very mild progress.
 
lets see, 209 to 214 = 5lbs x 3500 = 17,500 calories because we know its not possible for you to be holding a little extra weight from sodium/water retention or food in your guts. 😂

honestly 5-6lbs of water retention is super easy for me on a weekend just from like seafood and steak with all that salt usually in those meals lol
 
Dustin07 said:
lets see, 209 to 214 = 5lbs x 3500 = 17,500 calories because we know its not possible for you to be holding a little extra weight from sodium/water retention or food in your guts. 😂

honestly 5-6lbs of water retention is super easy for me on a weekend just from like seafood and steak with all that salt usually in those meals lol
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Well, yes, the issue is more than I was down to 206 for a bit. 8 pounds of glycogen and water is believable too, but it’s not good for the ego lol
 
well since you're not on a deadline to get on a stage, it does seem like the chart would show a continuous decline month to month for the past year even if its not as fast as you'd like, if nothing else the proof is in the pudding that you're down like 20lbs ish? but strength is up so something you're doing is building good habits and longevity!
 
Dustin07 said:
well since you're not on a deadline to get on a stage, it does seem like the chart would show a continuous decline month to month for the past year even if its not as fast as you'd like, if nothing else the proof is in the pudding that you're down like 20lbs ish? but strength is up so something you're doing is building good habits and longevity!
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Yes, good points. Thanks for the reminder.
 
Dustin07 said:
well since you're not on a deadline to get on a stage, it does seem like the chart would show a continuous decline month to month for the past year even if its not as fast as you'd like, if nothing else the proof is in the pudding that you're down like 20lbs ish? but strength is up so something you're doing is building good habits and longevity!
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Although one of my unspoken goals this summer was to fit comfortably in clothes I haven’t touched in a few years…lol
 
GreenMachineX said:
Yes, good points. Thanks for the reminder.
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GreenMachineX said:
Although one of my unspoken goals this summer was to fit comfortably in clothes I haven’t touched in a few years…lol
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its honestly my chief goal right now, to set up the habits that I can have some aspect of this part of my life on cruise control and not have to micro manage the nutrition to the extent that I have for cuts in the past.
 
Pretty good workout with the extra fluff.

Standing OHP 4x5x145
NG Pull-ups 5/5/4/3
CG Bench 3x4x185
Incline Hammer Press (testing it out)
T-Bar Row 3x5x115
Lateral Raise Machine 4 sets
 
Squatty Trap Bar DL 4 x 5 x 345
Leg Curls 4 sets
Cable Shrugs 4 sets
DB Curls 4 sets
Skullcrushers 4 sets

Last rep or 2 of last 2 sets of Tb DL was too hingy. Good form overall, but not the goal. Do I try it again next week, bump the weight a touch, or scale back to ensure all reps are squatty?
 
Dustin07 said:
never have I ever.

every time I go through a period of shrugs I play with every variation I can think of (except never tried cable lol) and I always just come back to power cleans.
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I’ve debated adding those in, but scared of popping my ACL again. I did actually do a couple singles at 185 today near the end just to see if I could. But, I chose cable shrugs with super strict slow down and pause at the top after years of bad form and using my levator scap instead of actual traps, resulting in shoulder issues and smaller traps.
 
I'm not sure which part of the movement creates the issue for you, whether you're catching it in a squat, or if it's the long full extension pulling from the ground, but I used to love teaching a power clean backwards, from the hang position at a modereate weight. probably 135-155 for you. a weight that a person can fake once or twice, but then HAS to use form for on a set of 5-10+. I always thought certain movements like the clean were interesting because if you have shitty form you'll hit a wall, you get to a point that you have to have good form or its not gonna budge (make sense?)

anyways... my point there was if the full clean bothers you, and it interested you at all, picking an 8-12 rep weight like 155lbs or something from the hang position might be a nice alternative for that explosive pull with in theory less stress on the ACL but pretty darn good shrug engagement. of course YMMV, if you respond better to sets of 3 or 5 or whatever. most oly programs are similar to PL in my experience, 3-5 rep zones. but I never lacked hypertrophy doing wods that called out 10-20 reps of a moderately heavy clean. Crossfitters I felt always had retarded big traps compared to other gym rats.
 
Dustin07 said:
I'm not sure which part of the movement creates the issue for you, whether you're catching it in a squat, or if it's the long full extension pulling from the ground, but I used to love teaching a power clean backwards, from the hang position at a modereate weight. probably 135-155 for you. a weight that a person can fake once or twice, but then HAS to use form for on a set of 5-10+. I always thought certain movements like the clean were interesting because if you have shitty form you'll hit a wall, you get to a point that you have to have good form or its not gonna budge (make sense?)

anyways... my point there was if the full clean bothers you, and it interested you at all, picking an 8-12 rep weight like 155lbs or something from the hang position might be a nice alternative for that explosive pull with in theory less stress on the ACL but pretty darn good shrug engagement. of course YMMV, if you respond better to sets of 3 or 5 or whatever. most oly programs are similar to PL in my experience, 3-5 rep zones. but I never lacked hypertrophy doing wods that called out 10-20 reps of a moderately heavy clean. Crossfitters I felt always had retarded big traps compared to other gym rats.
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I meant shrugs were always bad form actually, oddly enough power cleans and such were always good to go lol
 
Oh boy, you and I are at the same weight right now, but I am betting you look better than i do right now. How tall are you again? Seems like you mentioned around 5'10 at some point but I may be thinking of someone else.
 
MrKleen73 said:
Oh boy, you and I are at the same weight right now, but I am betting you look better than i do right now. How tall are you again? Seems like you mentioned around 5'10 at some point but I may be thinking of someone else.
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I’m 5’8.5”. Also still wearing 36 size pants which get a little loose when glycogen depleted, and 45-46” chest/back. Are you about the same as that?
 
GreenMachineX said:
I’m 5’8.5”. Also still wearing 36 size pants which get a little loose when glycogen depleted, and 45-46” chest/back. Are you about the same as that?
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I would say pretty close, I can still wear my 34/32, and 33/32 Levis 541 but they are considered athletic fit "stretch jeans" The 33's are pretty snug around the waistline, and the 34's are about perfect right after being washed. However the 2nd / 3rd time I wear them before washing they are both nice and comfortable. I would say if I were wearing 36's they would be in the same situation you are. All of that being said, the waistline of my jeans is lower, so just under the belly fat. I definitely look very "Powerlifterish" right now. I am heavy enough that the top of my belly area is thicker now, closer to the thickest area of my core. I would say I have a solid 5-7lbs to drop before it goes into that better looking area where the upper belly starts to flatten a bit and you really only have the lower belly if that makes sense. Basically less visceral fat...

My chest is probably closer to 46-47, but I have not measured it in some time so who knows. I am also like 5'7.5, 5'7 & 3/4.
 
MrKleen73 said:
I would say pretty close, I can still wear my 34/32, and 33/32 Levis 541 but they are considered athletic fit "stretch jeans" The 33's are pretty snug around the waistline, and the 34's are about perfect right after being washed. However the 2nd / 3rd time I wear them before washing they are both nice and comfortable. I would say if I were wearing 36's they would be in the same situation you are. All of that being said, the waistline of my jeans is lower, so just under the belly fat. I definitely look very "Powerlifterish" right now. I am heavy enough that the top of my belly area is thicker now, closer to the thickest area of my core. I would say I have a solid 5-7lbs to drop before it goes into that better looking area where the upper belly starts to flatten a bit and you really only have the lower belly if that makes sense. Basically less visceral fat...
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was a 34" waist pretty lose when you were leaned up and on stage? This is wild you two are one inch shorter than me and your inseem is longer. I have worn 32" waist/30" inseem since highschool. except my fat years. when I hit 38 around age 20 I called an audible and then spent 20 years under 200lbs lol. I must have a long torso and short legs, I bet that has some positive correlation with my deadlifts.

I do have to be careful though with "fashionable" jeans though, skinny jeans have always been a no go, and even with a pair of looser buckles I was more than once accused of wearing grape smugglers so with no desire to bring back the moose knuckle look I try to keep them a little loose and just keep a sock shoved down there to compensate.
 
Dustin07 said:
I do have to be careful though with "fashionable" jeans though, skinny jeans have always been a no go, and even with a pair of looser buckles I was more than once accused of wearing grape smugglers so with no desire to bring back the moose knuckle look I try to keep them a little loose and just keep a sock shoved down there to compensate.
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I’m not sure what I just read…lol
 
MrKleen73 said:
I would say pretty close, I can still wear my 34/32, and 33/32 Levis 541 but they are considered athletic fit "stretch jeans" The 33's are pretty snug around the waistline, and the 34's are about perfect right after being washed. However the 2nd / 3rd time I wear them before washing they are both nice and comfortable. I would say if I were wearing 36's they would be in the same situation you are. All of that being said, the waistline of my jeans is lower, so just under the belly fat. I definitely look very "Powerlifterish" right now. I am heavy enough that the top of my belly area is thicker now, closer to the thickest area of my core. I would say I have a solid 5-7lbs to drop before it goes into that better looking area where the upper belly starts to flatten a bit and you really only have the lower belly if that makes sense. Basically less visceral fat...

My chest is probably closer to 46-47, but I have not measured it in some time so who knows. I am also like 5'7.5, 5'7 & 3/4.
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Oh no, you got me beat then. My pants aren’t that loose. I’ll get there one day lol
 
MrKleen73 said:
I would say pretty close, I can still wear my 34/32, and 33/32 Levis 541 but they are considered athletic fit "stretch jeans" The 33's are pretty snug around the waistline, and the 34's are about perfect right after being washed. However the 2nd / 3rd time I wear them before washing they are both nice and comfortable. I would say if I were wearing 36's they would be in the same situation you are. All of that being said, the waistline of my jeans is lower, so just under the belly fat. I definitely look very "Powerlifterish" right now. I am heavy enough that the top of my belly area is thicker now, closer to the thickest area of my core. I would say I have a solid 5-7lbs to drop before it goes into that better looking area where the upper belly starts to flatten a bit and you really only have the lower belly if that makes sense. Basically less visceral fat...

My chest is probably closer to 46-47, but I have not measured it in some time so who knows. I am also like 5'7.5, 5'7 & 3/4.
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Are our major lifts about the same?
 
Weight: 209.6
Waist around navel: 39.6”

Definitely drained of excess water and liver glycogen low. Muscle glycogen probably pretty low too, but not gone.

4 weeks officially until next vacation. Let’s see what I can do.
 
Dustin07 said:
was a 34" waist pretty lose when you were leaned up and on stage? This is wild you two are one inch shorter than me and your inseem is longer. I have worn 32" waist/30" inseem since highschool. except my fat years. when I hit 38 around age 20 I called an audible and then spent 20 years under 200lbs lol. I must have a long torso and short legs, I bet that has some positive correlation with my deadlifts.

I do have to be careful though with "fashionable" jeans though, skinny jeans have always been a no go, and even with a pair of looser buckles I was more than once accused of wearing grape smugglers so with no desire to bring back the moose knuckle look I try to keep them a little loose and just keep a sock shoved down there to compensate.
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Yeah, I literally have no waist at all, the top of my hip bones are only an inch from my bottom rib. My body is not very long at all.

You might want to try on the 541's you can get them straight cuts or with a tapered lower leg. They are athletic fit, so more room for big thighs and glutes. The mild elasticity is mostly beneficial for mobility, bending / squatting and the like, not to make them stick to your skin like a set of tights like what you see a lot of the new hippie types wear.
GreenMachineX said:
Oh no, you got me beat then. My pants aren’t that loose. I’ll get there one day lol
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Yeah, but it doesn't sound like we are too far apart. A loose 36 to a well fitting 34 is not that far away from each other. Plus keep in mind most of the belly is above where the waistline sits on those pants. I don't have a dunlop situation unless sitting, but my belly definitely sticks out over the top of my pants.
GreenMachineX said:
Are our major lifts about the same?
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That I have no clue about. I haven't been able to do any serious training since my contest. SO I have no clue where I would be right now if I just push hard to see what I could lift. I do tend to be pretty strong in general when I can train hard. I would like to think I would still have the ability to pull 425-450, squatting I would have no idea, at this point I still doubt if I will be able to back squat again. As for bench even though it would probably not feel great, I think I could probably hit about 250-275 if I were willing to risk it. Of course these are all just guesses that are pretty far separated from reality since I haven't been able to train hard for so long.
GreenMachineX said:
Weight: 209.6
Waist around navel: 39.6”

Definitely drained of excess water and liver glycogen low. Muscle glycogen probably pretty low too, but not gone.

4 weeks officially until next vacation. Let’s see what I can do.
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Now there is a measurement i can use to check how close we are. I will try to remember to check my waist around my navel tomorrow and see where I am at. It will say more than pant sizes since you just can't be sure on how each brands idea of a measurement is.
 
Excellent workout today.

Flat Bench 4x5x235
T-Bar Row 4x5x115
Machine OHP 8x140, 7x150, 8x160
Regular Pull-ups 4/4/4/4
DB Upright Row 3 sets
 
Weight: 209.6

ATG Squat 3x3x315
Back Extensions 3x5
Cable Shrugs 4 sets
DB Curls 3 sets
Triceps Pressdowns 4 sets

Pretty good workout.
 
Standing OHP 4x5x147
NG Pull-up 5/5/5/5
CG Bench 4x5x185
DB Upright Row 3 sets
Machine Lateral Raise 2 sets
Triceps Pressdowns 3 sets

Presses still moving up nicely.
 
Weight: 209.2

Trap Bar DL Max 1x465
T-Bar Row 3x5x120
Cable Shrugs 4 sets
Leg Curls 2 sets
DB Curls 4 sets

The DL was a little more hingy at that top max than I meant to, so 455 is more accurate for a squatty trap bar max. I was hoping for 500 though, but maybe one day again.
 
Weight: 208.8

Bench 4 x 5/5/5/4 x 240
NG Pull-up 6/6/6/6
ISO Hammer OHP 3 x 8/8/7 x 210
DB Lateral Raise 4 sets

Missed that last set of bench by 1 rep!!!! I should not have taken the full 3mg lunesta last night. After a few days of 1.5mg and getting used to that, 3mg was a blitz and still dragging. Although, my sleep was pretty rough even with the, so the benefits of better sleep with 3mg > hitting that 1 last rep, right? Even so, progress on everything, while weight goes down. Maybe I’ve found the perfect middle ground for test dose and daily kcal.

I’ve been alternating 7mg and 8mg daily test cyp, but using a new slin pin that actually measures the half so I can get a legit 7mg and not guesstimate.

Kcal have been 2900-3k usually. Averaging 6k steps.
 
I am curious how you get such low doses, how many mg per cc is your test, and what syringe are you using?
 
MrKleen73 said:
I am curious how you get such low doses, how many mg per cc is your test, and what syringe are you using?
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It’s 200mg per mL. I use insulin pins from Diabetic Warehouse or Medlab Gear and pull to the 4 tick mark of a u100, giving 8mg. They have .3mL and .5mL syringes also, which make it even easier to measure perfectly. This is a quite popular tactic on ExcelMale forums.

I think Dr John Crisler started the idea. I do shallow IM with the half inch pin, instead of subq.
 
GreenMachineX said:
It’s 200mg per mL. I use insulin pins from Diabetic Warehouse or Medlab Gear and pull to the 4 tick mark of a u100, giving 8mg. They have .3mL and .5mL syringes also, which make it even easier to measure perfectly. This is a quite popular tactic on ExcelMale forums.

I think Dr John Crisler started the idea. I do shallow IM with the half inch pin, instead of subq.
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Ah, I see, I was just curious trying to play it out in my head. I am doing 20mg and it isn't much oil so cutting doses that close seems like it would be a bit difficult to be exact in my head. I would definitely need to dawn my readers to pull that accurately! ;)
 
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