Beelzebub
Registered User
you, sir, get a lap dance.
you, sir, get a lap dance.
arena
Guest
get out a socialize. u will realize im using it as a figure of speech.
for example "its essential you use muscletech in ur supplement programe." cleary u do not need musletech to survive, but i used it as a form of exxageration. that is what i was referring too.
i know certain amino acids are essential. that doesnt mean the only source for them is bcaa powder.
how bout u get a better argument that the figure of speeches i use.
dsade
NutraPlanet Fanatic
Nobody that I am aware of....yet. It would not cost a whole lot more. Bulk BCAA cost + cost of blending. It is just that many companies do not choose to stay on top of true science and hone their products to perfection.
nycste
Well-known member
soo how about i do it in my house. hurry send me 10000pounds of free protein and bcaa and ill mix and send back i promise
Xodus
Well-known member
I socialize plenty, thanks.
Thank you for using YOUR definition in a sentence. While it is grammatically correct, it is not the definition of essential when used to describe 'essential' amino acids. I will give you the correct definition, once you understand that, we can continue this discussion.
essential amino acids
An amino acid, essential for the synthesis of body proteins, that can only be obtained from the diet. The essential amino acids are arginine, histidine, isoleucine, leucine, lysine, methionine, phenylalanine, threonine, tryptophan, and valine. (Histidine is required by infants, but it has not been fully established that it is essential for adults.) They must be available simultaneously in the correct proportion for protein synthesis to take place efficiently.
While BCAA's are not the ONLY way to get them into your diet (as others in this thread have stated), they are an efficient way. You started this thread by saying that they were expensive placebos, others have shown you they are not. If YOUR definition of 'essential' messed with your thinking and you thought it was "essential" in your muscletech example sort of way, then I hope that you learned something from this thread.
X
dsade
NutraPlanet Fanatic
What I wouldn't give for control of one of the major companies. You would see some BIG time stuff.
Xodus
Well-known member
Frequency
Active member
Wouldnt the bcaa's absorption be slowed down considerably?
arena
Guest
i didnt say they were a placebo. i said it is not worth the price.
EctoPower
Active member
True, it was actually herkfsu who said they were a placebo.
Arena started the thread off by saying that it was more cost efficient to just take whey and that you would get all the BCAA you need that way. Many others have since pointed out that those BCAA are not the same because they are bound to the whey protein, as opposed to bulk BCAA which are "free" and as such have a different and beneficial reaction in the body. Others have stated that BCAA are a good replacement for whey when on a cut. Some are going to agree, some won't.
IMO, this thread is over.
arena
Guest
to those who say the bcaa's found in whey is not as beneficial because they are bound, i believe it does not matter. once digested, all amino acids are free. it does take more time to digest whey, however, all you need to do is consume it 20 minutes before your workout
nycste
Well-known member
well there might be ways to humm slow this down. but sorta totally defeats purpose of the bcaa method right i think. not sure if taking it with fiber would help or hurt. maybe some other bulk powder slow it down no idea really.
EctoPower
Active member
Everybody is different. I use Optimum Nutrition BCAA and have never had a problem with long trips to the can. :dump:
EctoPower
Active member
I'd love to see the proof from which these doctors are getting this opinion. I have never seen anything that says BCAAs are harmful at any dose (btw, what is a "large amount?") and actually have never heard of doctors stating that they are harmful.
Where are you getting this from?
Flaw
Well-known member
I'd like to see the proof too. Personally I think most dr.s are against supplements of any form cause they won't be profiting off them by recommending them.
I've gotten it from countless of dr.s i've gone too and they all tell me to stop taking glutamine, creatine, ext.. how they are really harmfull on the kidneys and what not. Which in that case i've brought studies with me and they still didn't agree. I even mentioned how 5 grams 2x a day of glutamine has really helped with stomach issues and have been looked at like i'm crazy and say I am doing more harm then good. This is why I'm still in search of a good dr. Still haven't found one in my life time. Now living in jax, I doubt i'll find one. lol.
Hank Vangut
Well-known member
this is an interesting debate.
i'll probably get flamed out here because there seems to be a lot of pro-BCAA advocates here.
i just want to advance the discussion.
from what i understand -
the digestion process frees amino acids (including BCAAs) from protien sources (whether it be whey powder, meat, or whatever the source) so they become free form and absorbed by our bloodstream to get to our muscles.
most of us eat more than 1gram/day of protein which should lead to more than enough free form BCAAs (after digestion) to rebuild broken down muscles.
supplementation of free form BCAAs allows one to avoid much of the digestion process and have aminos hit your blood stream faster and with less energy expense by the body.
i accept the argument that this may be beneficial during workout or immediately after as it has been shown that protein synthesis is elevated with resistance excersise.
but whey is digested extremely quickly and should produce the same desired effect during or post workout. so if the end result is similar - whey protein would be the better option based purely on price.
the thing i don't get is that i keep hearing a lot of people say that BCAAs are a must when cutting. this logic i don't understand.
isn't digestion itself somewhat thermogenetic (ie. it requires calories/energy to digest food)? that is why many experts recommend sticking to whole foods on a diet. plus whole foods slower digestion helps supply a more stable and steady stream of amino acids to the blood stream through out the day - reducing catabolism on a calorie restricted diet.
if this is the case, then wouldn't it be beneficial to consume whole protein sources vs. pure free form BCAA during a cut??
i'll probably get flamed out here because there seems to be a lot of pro-BCAA advocates here.
i just want to advance the discussion.
from what i understand -
the digestion process frees amino acids (including BCAAs) from protien sources (whether it be whey powder, meat, or whatever the source) so they become free form and absorbed by our bloodstream to get to our muscles.
most of us eat more than 1gram/day of protein which should lead to more than enough free form BCAAs (after digestion) to rebuild broken down muscles.
supplementation of free form BCAAs allows one to avoid much of the digestion process and have aminos hit your blood stream faster and with less energy expense by the body.
i accept the argument that this may be beneficial during workout or immediately after as it has been shown that protein synthesis is elevated with resistance excersise.
but whey is digested extremely quickly and should produce the same desired effect during or post workout. so if the end result is similar - whey protein would be the better option based purely on price.
the thing i don't get is that i keep hearing a lot of people say that BCAAs are a must when cutting. this logic i don't understand.
isn't digestion itself somewhat thermogenetic (ie. it requires calories/energy to digest food)? that is why many experts recommend sticking to whole foods on a diet. plus whole foods slower digestion helps supply a more stable and steady stream of amino acids to the blood stream through out the day - reducing catabolism on a calorie restricted diet.
if this is the case, then wouldn't it be beneficial to consume whole protein sources vs. pure free form BCAA during a cut??
Hank Vangut
Well-known member
i guess if you are cutting by severely reducing your calorie intake, BCAAs may be helpful. as this would allow you to keep your daily amino intake higher without increasing calorie consumption.
but for a bulk where high calorie intake is the goal and you are already consuming large amounts of protein - BCAAs seem like a wast of money.
but for a bulk where high calorie intake is the goal and you are already consuming large amounts of protein - BCAAs seem like a wast of money.
Xodus
Well-known member
Esp. to get the levels of BCAA's (30g-40g) pre/peri/post workout that some recommend.
X
mcneely011
New member
IMO, there is no real scientific argument to BCAA over whey protein. All of these studies which you are pointing out are done on fasted subjects or done when comparing carbohydrate vs. carb+prot+BCAA. As far as i know, there are no studies which prove BCAA are better than the same amount of whey protein in fed subjects. Don't get me wrong...i'm not anti BCAA. I've mega-dosed them and had good results..... however i'm still curious if using whey protein in the same manner would produce the same results. What we need is a side-by-side comparison of BCAA and whey protein or even whey/casein to settle the debate.
dsade
NutraPlanet Fanatic
I believe there is a study posted above which compares carbs +whey vs. Carbs+whey+leucine, with the leucine group coming WAY ahead.
thesinner
Recovering AXoholic
I believe you are correct.