Self Fulfilling Prophecies and methyl steroids

B5150 said:
Bump...

...for the boat-load of newbie posts that flood this place with the surge of the newbie OTC methylated steroids and ban rumors.
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True.

Lets all get excited about Methoxy-this and Halo-that... untested, unproven, and uncertain substances...

In fact... let's all buy a bunch. Why not?

:rasp:
 
The biggest problem w/ BBing is the percepion that EVERYONE can become huge by lifting weights and popping pills. The two important factors in BBing are patience and dedication.

It is so bizarre to me that every person thinks by lifting a weight that they will explode w/ mass and can become a pro. I would like someone to tell me any endeavor that he/she can become the best in the world after only a few months. I am pretty sure that no person thinks they can play in the NFL after starting to play football when they are in their mid-20s...
 
From my point of view, being only 20 yrs. old, I don't like the idea of relying on supplements for gains off the bat. It really makes me angry when I'm browsing a few forums and read posts by guys who are 17-20 saying they know the dangers, but want to do it anyway. Why not spend the money on some good food, and learn to lift properly, and use minimal supps. I've only been seriously lifting now for abt 2 months and I've def. noticed a change from eating clean and working out with a good program.

Just my .02- I don't want to touch any methyl-this or that for a loong time. No thank you.
 
:goodpost:

bow said:
There seems to be an influx of threads of late relating to people under the age of 21 taking anabolics or equally insane, people will minimal training experience (especially those people under the age of 30) taking PHs or steroids to improve gains.

I know this has all been pointed out before, but I believe it needs to be reiterated. First, if you are taking PHs or steroids and are under the age of 21, you are playing Russian Roulette. What is most concerning is that you are still growing and f*cking with your hormones. Your hormones peak at about age 18. Most of us would kill to have the same amount of natural test and igf-1 floating around our systems without having to engage in exogenous hormones. Take advantage of it. Train your ass off and you will grow. Aside from irreversible htpa damage, you run the risk of stunting your growth via premature growth plate closure, inducing gynecomastia (bitch tits) and accelerating the probability and growth of certain cancers.

Second, if you are over the age of 21 and are considering taking PHs or steroids and are relatively new to training, don't even consider it. You should be absolutely sure you have exhausted all means of progress via proper training, rest and diet. If you are not sure, you are not ready. Research. If you still are not sure, hire Bobo.

I see people who are beginning cycles with only a couple months of consistent training. This is insane. Very simply, your htpa never fully recovers after a cycle of exogenous hormones. Whenever you exceed normal physiological levels of any androgen for an extended period of time, you are going to do some irreversible damage. The purpose of PCT is to minimize that damage. But be sure, you are doing damage (regardless of age). At or near the age of 28, our bodies hormone levels being to decline. If you are under the age of 28, why accelerate this process? If you can make progress without the assistance of PHs or steroids, why engage in their use and accelerate what will be your body's ability to naturally produce hormones? Only if you have trained consistently for several years, have exhausted all means of progress via proper training, diet and rest and are experiencing an unusually prolonged plateau should you even consider such avenues.
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I think this should be posted every time a teenager asks about anabolics here (right before the thread gets locked).
 
I think in general society has a miracle pill for everything. Why is a teenager guilty of ignorant use of PH when their parents at home take lipitor for high colesterol while they eat extra buttered popcorn on the couch. Hollywood has one of the most powerful effect on influential minds, all this is a world of botox, colonics, plastic surgery and last but not least designer eating disorders. Has anyone noticed how drug use in general has changed. Kids dont just smoke pot and munch out, crystal meth is disturbing, excstacy is widely used, and binge drinking is the norm. I am the only person in my family who knows about any sort of supplements, i continually try to educate my family but they seem so sceptical of supplements because of the medias perception of sports supplemnts. I think the coverage by the governments in north america is lacking to say the least and definetely inadequate. They IMO have managed to scare away people from supplements and opened up a new door for kids looking for something to get on. There has always been influential children looking to do whatever is inthe media, smoking proves it everyday. If an actor did juice in a movie think of how that made you feel, the music was all tense like you know its wrong and its goona catch up to him soon enough. But when someones smoking its pure exstacy and they love every second of it, so its implied that its ok and COOL people smoke. I think our perspective as people loooking to learn about our bodies and tap in to the fountain of physical youth is gracious with pure in tent of correcting the problems started somwhere else. Once they get here atleast they have a chance at making informed decisions. The problem IMO is not this forum and its advice or number of posts in any section its everyday life and this is a lifeline for someone swiming through the sewer of life. Dont scorn idiots, newbs or kids dont push them away, offer help. Weve all been young, uninformed, or out classed, but we never want to feel stupid isolated or small. AM helping to fix everyones problems one post at a time.
 
Great post Somewhat!

When I think about what my knowledge and attitide towards supplements and diet was 15 years ago..I shudder.
 
I just ran across this thread searching for something else.
B5150 nailed the title on this one. It looks like the problem is getting worse instead of better as far as younger guys jumping into cycles.
The MODS here do a great job trying to educate and keep these kids from making mistakes that could last a lifetime, but there is only so much they can do.
You just cannot afford to advise a teen how to use steroids or PH's, even though you know some of them are going to cycle regardless of the reasons we tell them not to.
 
With the tremendous influx of new board members this is so much more relevant. So many very inexperienced first time users sharing their (in)experience with other first time users is becoming epidemic. Experience means nothing without knowledge and knowledge means nothing without wisdom. Steroids are not dangerous in the hands of mature, intelligent, knowledgeable, safe users. Unfortunately there are far too few of these coming of age lately.
 
I think i'm going to add this to my sig as it holds a ton of valuable insight and information to the masses who want to choke down the coolest and newest drug.
 
i believe that half of these people (that have always JUST TURNED "21") asking about their first cycle are really kids either just out of high school or still in highschool.

when i see kids talking about taking ph/ass when they are clearly at least 20 pounds less than what they should be before starting i have to shake my head, but there is, of course, a flipside.

i find that this situation is similiar to the whole over the counter "plan B" birth control situation. people dont want to make it easily availbe because it will promote promiscuity. other say there will be promiscuity anyway, so lets control the fall out (unplanned pregnancy). i happen to be with the latter.

the same situation applies to these idiots in high school asking about steroid use when they should not even be considering anything but learning how to eat right and train right to attain their goal, which would be ridiculously easy with their natural hormone panel. we can either tell them they are not ready and blow them off, or we can tell them how to do it correctly to minimize the damage.

i do not think that telling these idiots (and dont mistake me for a second, i hope they regret their decisions deeply later in life) is right at all, but i do think it helps to minimize the damage. kids are going to do this anyway, the best we can do is try to dissuade them as best we can and point them to the diet and training sections...but when push comes to shove we need to provide damage control.

normally, it looks like emphasis on the side effects than can and probably will experience due to their young age can deter them. Pointing out the unavoidable close of their immature growth plates seems to be particularly effective, and, not a over exaggerated side effect they have been told in health class that is clearly overly exaggerated.

i am sure some will disagree with me, but whos outlook will help to prevent these kids from hurting themselves?

personally i think we should have to recieve an "ok" from moderators before giving advice to ANYONE who asks about their cycle plan, especially those on the younger spectrum that are planning their first cycle...which will in all likelihood be STANDALONE DECAAAAA
 
All the pills these companies are coming out with are a joke! Superdrol, Halodrol, and M1t are good steroids. Are they Better than anadrol or D-bol? Maybe, Maybe not. But because they are (were) legal people think it is ok to use them at any age or stage in your bodybuilding development. This is so far from the truth! If you are under 200 pounds and i don't care what height you are you should not be using steroids. You simply are not eating enough to mantain anything you gain. Look at anybody you know that is natural and over 200 pounds. I bet they eat a ton more than you. That is how you have eat in order to get big. All the big guys don't take roids to get bigger necessarily. They take them to get ripped and big. If you find a more mature board like i have you will see that sheer weight gain is not the determining factor in a successful steroid cycle. Anyone can gain ten pounds of water in 4-5 weeks. Sheet, you can do this with a good creatine/NO product and protein. All in all please stop taking all these damn orals at 160-175 pounds. Your wasting your time, money and health. If anything do a real cycle for 16-20 weeks and gain some quality mass that you might keep.
 
somewhatgifted said:
i continually try to educate my family but they seem so sceptical of supplements because of the medias perception of sports supplemnts.
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They think its dangerouse because it is unknown. Mankinds greatest fear is the unknown. Think about it. UFO's, some people are afraid because they are "unidentified." Darkness scares some little children because they dont know whats there, not the darkness itself. I mean if you could contain a handfull of "darkness" and pass it to a kid who is afraid of the dark, they wouldn't run away.

Things like binge drinking and unfiltered cigs are more dangerouse, but everyone knows what they are and have been around a long time. Something like creatine hasnt been around THAT long so people think the moon will explode or something if they take it....

"My son got hit by a car today!"
"Its that damn creatine!"
 
Ive got to agree with ripped22, one of the biggest problems with these new designer steroids is the way they are advertised as safe, miracle supplements. Alot of kids get the wrong idea about them and are not informed of any of the dangers. In my mind the companies advertising their products this way and the magazines printing the ads are responsible for many of the kids getting screwed up on these new compounds.
 
I was just watching MTV's True Life: I'm on Steroids last night. The heavy cycles these guys were running, and their rationales for running them made me shudder. I think people need to realize how trivial steroids are compared to your diet and exercise plan.
 
Great Read

I just want to say that this has been one of if not the best thread I have read so far. Being that I am new to this forum community and still fairly new to aas, I wanted to say that I completely agree with the topic starter. I have been lucky to be able to be around guys older than me that have been into BB for a long time. I have never felt wierd asking questions about aas or anything like that. They were a great help at making me understand 'why' me doing one thing isnt the same as someone their age/size/condition doing it. It helped a lot because a lot of my peers that were getting into aas and talking a bunch of garbage. And when you are young 18-early 20s you can blindly listen to your peers without ever thinking twice. I just want to thank all you guys/gals out there who have helped any of the serious newbies out there that have asked real questions. Thanks
 
I would not recommend M1T to any body...I went on for four days and became so lethargic I could barely move...
 
b5150 said:
I can recall a time not so very long ago. A time when M1T was "extreme" in regard to its potential dangers. A time when use and mis-use was a very serious concern by many members on the board. A time when statements like; "every kid wanting to get huge will be eating this **** like candy" and was of a serious concern. Our conscienses were very finely tuned to the potential dangers of the use and abuse of these compounds by anyone, and especially young kids just coming into the BB world/sport, with very little to no training and diet experience.

Fast forward to today. We have 20-21yr olds weighing in at 145-165lb advising other 145-165lb kids who want to get huge by doing this or that methyl. Kids who don't know how to eat or train right. Kids who have trained for the first time in their lives now wanting to take steroids.

What happened? Where is the board conscience that used to be so prominant? Is there a board conscience?

Please note: I am not anti steroids, nor anti kids (young men), nor anti kids on steroids. I'm sure this may offend a few too many. But surely there are some here who remember "back in the day" when we used conscience and caution when supplying advise.

I'm sure I'm not alone here.
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this is why i left this board a long time ago. i said the same exact thing you said 6 months ago in a not so nice way. i called a couple guys out and people jumped down my back for it. look at my past posts. this board is out of contol with its abuse of oral steroids and the super walterweights that acompany it. go to an "adult" board where injects and bloodwork are the norm and you will encounter a more respected and solid knowledge base. not to mention most guys are well over 200 pounds. they flame the hell out of anyone under weight for there height that wants to use roids.

this place has become the antithesis of what it was in the begining and i will not contribute anymore.

anyway how is that PP,SD,havoc, trn, 6-ad,10-ad-3-ad, epi stack coming
 
the problem is that there really isnt a solid base of people that will jump down these individual's backs when they suggest

1. oral cycle over 4 weeks
2. stacking multiple designer orals
3. AI only pct
4. starting steroids far too early

and i wont even get started on the "pusling" method.
 
colindep said:
Ive got to agree with ripped22, one of the biggest problems with these new designer steroids is the way they are advertised as safe, miracle supplements. Alot of kids get the wrong idea about them and are not informed of any of the dangers. In my mind the companies advertising their products this way and the magazines printing the ads are responsible for many of the kids getting screwed up on these new compounds.
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Look at these, right in your local friendly VitaminShoppe

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On sale now, get em while they are hot, and oh yeah, get them thinking they are just simple supplements. I think at least if you have to buy em online, theres more chance that you actually read something about them. The thought that yesterday I was looking at the liquid masterdrol box while I was picking up some of the store brand pro-pudding mix made me queasy. Maybe even if at least they were required to only sell it as a complete with a full PCT as a single item I'd feel better.
 
b5150 said:
I can remember back when I first cycled androgens. I got back into training again for the first time in too long. I trained for a while and saw that I still had it. But I knew that it was consistancy and discipline that were going to get me the long term results. I spent an entire year researching androgens while perfecting my diet and training. After that year I did my first cycle. It was Nor-ADerm. Anyone even remember what that is? :) I then gradually proceded to 1,4dione and finally a 1T/4AD cycle. This progression took about a year. I cycled a few more 1T/4AD cycles before the "goods" started hitting the boards.
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That's the thing, it's all about the access. I'll bet when you did your research (I'm assuming pre-instant internet), it was hard to find, you had to work for it. You had to work to perfect your diet and training. It was hard, as anything worth going after is hard. Hard - a word that seems to be absent this day and age as the world vehemently tries to eliminate it (note to world - you will never eliminate hard).

Nowadays, any kid wanting to look like a 300 (the movie) extra can log on and within seconds find information (likely misinformation) on these easily accessible methyl steroids. Unless they can critically think and analyze (which seems to be lost on this newer generation) their "research" amounts to nothing more than some other, slightly more experienced kid telling them to "go for it".

Now, being a Libertarian I believe in our freedom of access to things like this - but they need to have some kind of detailed post cycle therapy advisory on these products, or include a PCT "kit" with them. If for nothing else that it may prevent some Johnny rich kid from irreparably damaging himself with one of these - filing a lawsuit, and getting a permanent ban on all "muscle building supplements" (think Belcher and Ephedra). Just my 2 pennies.

-POTR33
 
I'll chime in here because, like b5150, I remember the days when most boards on the web had a "conscience" surrounding underaged/underexperienced roid usage. I agree that consciousness surrounding the issue has declined, not by the boards themselves but by society in general. This isn't something just localized to bodybuilding drugs though. As a whole we all tolerate things now that we wouldn't have 5, 10, or 20 years ago.

It's definitely worth taking somewhat of a stand on but the truth is that with the age of tech where "google" is a verb, kids can and will find anything they need/want. The best we can really do is give them ALL the info they need, good and bad, and hope that they can make a well informed decision.
 
I sure as hell wished there was a site like this 13 years ago when I did my first cycle of T. Cyp at the tender age of 16 with no PCT. One of my nuts is still the size of a raisin.

I'm thankfull this site exists now, since I bought a bottle of Halovar thinking it was a bb supplement only to find out it was legal gear. Who the hell knew they were selling roids at the supplement store?
 
edwards said:
I sure as hell wished there was a site like this 13 years ago when I did my first cycle of T. Cyp at the tender age of 16 with no post cycle therapy. One of my nuts is still the size of a raisin.

I'm thankfull this site exists now, since I bought a bottle of Halovar thinking it was a bb supplement only to find out it was legal gear. Who the hell knew they were selling roids at the supplement store?
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A valid point. I guess that's one thing we can be more sure of now.....that even the youngest users are pretty well informed about what they are doing. Save, of course, for the few who are just too unreasonable to do any amount of research and instead just track down a source and start in.
 
I agree 100%!

b5150 said:
I can recall a time not so very long ago. A time when M1T was "extreme" in regard to its potential dangers...
Fast forward to today. We have 20-21yr olds weighing in at 145-165lb advising other 145-165lb kids who want to get huge by doing this or that methyl...
What happened? Where is the board conscience that used to be so prominant? Is there a board conscience?
...
I'm sure I'm not alone here.
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I agree 100%!

I think old forum members no longer participate like they used to; you are one of the few that I remember from "back in the day."

I did not read too far beyond your post - I don't think the issue requires much in-depth analysis, all we have to do is act. There is nothing we can do to control marketing of products by companies making false claims and putting kids at risk, the only thing we can do in this forum is inform people of the potential consequences of misuse especially if you are not an adult and/or experienced athlete. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the ultimate objective here is to motivate forum members to get their basic meal and workout plan in place and be disciplined enough to follow it and learn from it. If they get this under their belt they will have much better understanding of bodybuilding concepts and how they apply to their unique physiques - we are all different.

Although I am not a moderator (don't want to be one either) or a board sponsor, I give you my pledge to help steer minors away from these supplements in hopes to get the forum under control again.

We already have a good practical solution to this problem - direct them to BOBO's FLA programs :thumbsup:

If I completely misunderstood your intention please delete this thread, but also PM me - I want to help.

Thanks.
 
Gethuge said:
A valid point. I guess that's one thing we can be more sure of now.....that even the youngest users are pretty well informed about what they are doing. Save, of course, for the few who are just too unreasonable to do any amount of research and instead just track down a source and start in.
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I see plenty of those posts "I'm 14 days into my xxx cycle, and my nuts feel weird, should I start taking my restore now"
 
This thread is three years old. I have been a Mod and now an Admin in that time. It is fair to say that I have slightly less enthusiasm on the matter. I can no longer act as the community conscience. It is my hope that the community will reflect its values for those who enter.
 
It seems there has been a heavy influx of the BB.com types over the past year or so. Granted, we were forewarned by Bobo prior to the onslaught but there is only so much to say. I've been attacked for telling people to research and then post their question. At one level I could not care who gets the "***** Tits" or shrinks their balls to raisins and needs to be on HRT as result. Ethically though, I feel responsible to at least warn or encourage those to seek information prior to starting their "cycles"

I think the whole "their going to do it anyway so we might as well give them the information" mindset is a copout. I think that you should not be able to start a thread unless you have been active on the board for 3-6 mos. Not saying no posting just no thread starting. These "I am doing an 8 week cycle of PP/Epi/superdrol do I need to do a SERM in post cycle therapy" threads are ridiculous.
 
how do you provide an answer to someone, who can easily obtain designers and ph's even still after the ban, about obtaining proper pct? (I'm by no means asking to source, I do fine with that) I'm just saying, why give the information for "damage control" if you can't give ALL the information they need? Because you know a lot of them ask right away, 'well how do i get nolva, clomid,etc..?' I think that's where a lot of the inexperienced dabblers go wrong and just decide on using an OTC standalone for PCT...
thoughts anyone?
 
in regards to post i just made...
I made that statement to go along with the advice of 'clean diet, proper training, recovery, reaching genetic potential, growth plates...etc" when attacking the problem of youngsters wanting to be jacked without the knowledge of the damage they can cause themselves.
 
All Newbie bish's please follow THIS CYCLE!

1. Workout hard - There are many different workout regimes, many that work well. Generally: Strength training is in the 6 rep range / Bodybuilding in the 8-10 rep range. - Rep range warmup: 15 ( sets 1 & 2 ) Working: 10, 8, 6 last three sets add drop sets to failure )

2. Fast Efficient Workouts = 1hr -Invalid Link Removed

3. Protein shake immediately after workout and then protein meal with carbs etc within 1hr

4. Creatine - Mono or CEE you decide. Both before and after workout.

5. Daily meals - 5 - 6 day ( including shakes ) protein = 1g per pound of body weight. Meal 1 ( breakies ) is shake plus oatmeal or whatever else you want ( apple is good fibre / system crap mover ), Meal 6 is post workout shake with creatine etc and then solid food meal. Carbs tapered down from morning to evening and fats tapered up from morning to evening. Protein is a constant.

6. Sleep 8 - 10 hrs a night ( very imp for all natural BB'ers )

7. Supps - Do you note the order in which these are and where supps come??? - a) Multivitamin / B complex b) Whey protein c) creatine e) Test boosters / stacks etc

Most importantly do you see the order of these things?

Exercises: Compound movements i.e. two arm two leg exercises.

1. Squats - Biggest muscle and boosts test like crazy, work em hard and see results big time.

2. Deadlifts / Chins / Bent over Rows / Pulldowns - 1st attempt either an palm up or palm down chin at the beginning of your back workout, if you can do one, try two, if you can do 15, add weight. Most important for back is to make the mind / muscle connection. Concentrate ( start with low weight and excellent form ) on getting a good contraction and not swinging with the weight. Calm controlled up down with good squeeze of lats at bottom of rep. All about the connection / squeeze

3. Leg press

4. Flat Bench Dumbell / Barbell - Always swap it up, it takes more muscle etc to do dumbells ( stabilizing muscles etc ) but switch it up - Start with dips to hit lower chest then move to flat bench / incline.

5. Core work - Abs / lower back - work the weaker harder.

This should give you a good idea....Best thing for test.....squats ....good form, warm up well, be careful and grow!

Once you've made some good gainz on that cycle, we'll talk after you have built a solid 5 year hardcore muscle foundation!

Much Love,

Neoborn
 
dunk826 said:
in regards to post i just made...
I made that statement to go along with the advice of 'clean diet, proper training, recovery, reaching genetic potential, growth plates...etc" when attacking the problem of youngsters wanting to be jacked without the knowledge of the damage they can cause themselves.
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Its a similar argument that happens in all sorts of areas. Does having condoms available as part of an anti-aids initiative encourage teenage sex? Does supplying heroin addicts with clean new needles encourage them to shoot up more?

In my perspective as an older prick, no it really doesn't encourage it in more than a tiny fraction of the people. For the most part, people who have self destructive personalities will find a way to hurt themselves regardless. And people who don't have enough concern for their health will damage their health. Heck, a Hardee's monster thickburger has 43g of saturated fat, and over 100g of total fat! Anyone who has such little concern for themselves really gets what they get. My dad had 2/3 of one lung removed from cancer, I can't blame the cigarette companies for that.... Who ever believed that breathing in smoke wasn't unhealthy?

Basically I think you may get a handful out of 100 who irresponsibly do a cycle going ahead and doing it because they see novadex xt or aPCT and think that is all they need. The 98 of the irresponsible ones would do it regardless if the label on the bottle of superdrol said "this will make your balls shrink to raisin size, but the extras in 300 used it".

I'm a believer that the current group of designers shouldnt' be able to be sold solo, without a reasonable PCT with them. But the only way to "force" that would be to get the government involved, and then the real answer is that the designers are unsafe and so they'd get banned.

Whats really funny tho in an odd sort of way is that it is evolution at work. Someone not smart enough to figure out what they are putting into their body before they take it may end up being unable to breed later. Go Darwin!

There does seem to be a small light at the end of the tunnel tho. There are a number of promising OTC PCT products out there now based around resveratrol in part that should actually work. I'm doing an epistane / revolt (same as max-lmg or x-mass) cycle in late october/early november, and I've decided to use a non-serm PCT. I'm going with Dermacrine Sustain from Primoridal Performance solo for PCT. I'm doing bloodwork before cycle, and after PCT so we'll all be able to see some real world results. I'll have nolva on hand in case it all goes sour mind you :D. But i'm pretty confident.
 
I'm a believer that the current group of designers shouldnt' be able to be sold solo, without a reasonable post cycle therapy with them. But the only way to "force" that would be to get the government involved, and then the real answer is that the designers are unsafe and so they'd get banned.
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This definitely would help address a lot of grief with respect to abuse. But would it actually lead to a more educated and aware user?
 
xarjun said:
This definitely would help address a lot of grief with respect to abuse. But would it actually lead to a more educated and aware user?
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Nope. but if its sold over the counter, it ought to not leave your body parts in a non-usable state afterwards. No other "nutritional" products on the market do that, it wouldn't be tolerated. So doing what we can to at least minimize the permanent or long term damage that gets done would help

I'm an almost 40 year old professional with a house and family and it was hard for me to convince myself not to do a cycle yet. I have all the materials, was going to do a cycle for my 40th birthday. But I'm not ready yet, it really would be a waste, I can make almost steroidal gains just by taking in 4000cal a day
 
It is true...sadly, the overriding care and concern have vanished. I went into the supp store near me a while ago for the first time in a year or so (cause I shop here now ;) ), and the guy working there proudly presented the supp which contains ALL THREE (Halodrol, Superdrol, and Pheraplex) together.
I've been out of the loop for a while, so I didn't see the ultimate recent (year and a half, say) playing out of the supp game. I was astonished, recalling the logs from 2002-5 which showed the potential HDL/LDL and liver toxicity issues, not to mention potential other shutdown factors or damage for youngsters, from the use of single methylated prosteroids/hormones.
So now we can stack all of 'em in one convenient, easy-to-swallow pill! Oh, and just take a little milk thistle and your liver will be fine!?...Yikes.....

Well, it is what it is, I guess. Hopefully a group of knowledgable individuals can help by dropping important facts into these discussions and offering a voice of rasonable authority. I certainly won't preach, but I am very concerned about the health and longevity of those involved in bodybuilding, and especially those here at AM.
 
You have to also remember that P.C.T is a fairly recent idea. In the old days they just gradually went down in dose. The reason for PCT is to get your natural test production started again. Even if you don't use a P.C.T product your test production will return to normal, it will just take a little bit longer. Whether you use PCT or not though there is a chance there will still be some permanent damage to your endocrine system, you will not produce as much testorone naturally as before you ever started using anabolics.....Another thing is the attitude of people not saying "no" to anabolics, but saying wait until you are 21. Why not just direct people not to use steriods at all, instead of telling them it is ok but they have to wait till their 21st birthday. Also why 21?. People can't really make clear decisions for themselves until after 25 years of age, there was a recent study on this. The brains "decision making center" isn't fully developed until 25 years.

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Another thing I hate seeing is post like "Get you diet and training in order first, then consider steroids". If their diet and training is already worked out they should have no need for steroids and should be gaining muscle without them. Steroids are going to make a difference whether or not their diet is in order. They should have a good diet and training program REGARDLESS!. Also with support supplements, the more is better attitude is self-destructive. I really don't think that trying to stop the side effects of one pill with another is helpful. Think about it, the liver processes everything you put in your mouth, all food. It works especially hard at digesting protein and fat, with the high protein intake that people use it just has to work harder. The more protein you eat, the harder it works. Its main function is to convert glucose to glycogen. It has so many other functions though... The more pills you take the harder it works. So if you are taking a methyl steroid, and then taking support supplements its just working that much harder because it has to process that much more. It has so many functions and you only have one so be careful,

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motiv8er said:
I missed this thread the first time around. I am very proud to read it though. Don't laugh, I manage a Hollister Clothing store. I play big, big brother to 75 odd kids. I deal with poor decision making youths all the time. Kids doing what they do, jumping into an unfilled pool.

It will always be difficult to balance the successful athlete who is driven to research, and the kid who wants quick easy answers. I feel it is our duty to show a better path. Instead of saying DO MORE RESEARCH!!! (Followed by please lay off the caps!) I try to write down the key words. Sometimes we can answer the same question in a sentence, sometimes we can show the right path in a sentence.

In my youth I would have given anything to have known about a board like AM. We don't provide answers here, we illuminate paths. We show you the door. The answers must come from you in the end.

This board is full of people who have asked themselves many of the same questions, and searched many of the same questions. And so it is our purpose, to show others- the way it is done.

The mods do a great, tough job here. Balancing law, ethics, and mass amounts of info. I try to treat everyone here as though I know them. A community that looks out for the most jacked and inspiring, to the hungriest and perspiring. I take pride in using and sharing what I learn here. I'm proud to be a member. End of rant, sob, snot, cough...

Am I my brother's keeper? Yes I am.
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Great Post! I don't actively participate in boards too much anymore, but when I came back to check this board out I noticed something. I've seen this on other boards as well. It appears to me that a lof the guys are slamming the newbs something serious. Things like, "Do you research!", "Eat to Make Your Gains", "Train 5 Years First!" I don't disagree with the message that is being sent to the Newbs and highschoolers, but the typical method of delivery I've seen is only going to cause these kids to rebel and do it anyway. Especially, when everyone jumps on the bandwagon of name calling and insulting the person.
I don't like to see newbie posts anymore than anyone else, but cussing the kids out and demanding for their ban isn't sending the right message. Your only telling these people that its ok to be a jerk.
If you really want to make a difference, then try this instead...
PM the person or post out in the open and try to develop a relationship with this newb or highschooler. Find out why they want to take steroids in the first place. Is it out of insecurity? Do they want to compete? Do they know all of the rammifications?
My point is simply maybe its not the message, or the person giving the message, but the delivery of the message that we need to work on.
 
B5150 said:
I can recall a time not so very long ago. A time when M1T was "extreme" in regard to its potential dangers. A time when use and mis-use was a very serious concern by many members on the board. A time when statements like; "every kid wanting to get huge will be eating this **** like candy" and was of a serious concern. Our conscienses were very finely tuned to the potential dangers of the use and abuse of these compounds by anyone, and especially young kids just coming into the BB world/sport, with very little to no training and diet experience.

Fast forward to today. We have 20-21yr olds weighing in at 145-165lb advising other 145-165lb kids who want to get huge by doing this or that methyl. Kids who don't know how to eat or train right. Kids who have trained for the first time in their lives now wanting to take steroids.

What happened? Where is the board conscience that used to be so prominant? Is there a board conscience?

Please note: I am not anti steroids, nor anti kids (young men), nor anti kids on steroids. I'm sure this may offend a few too many. But surely there are some here who remember "back in the day" when we used conscience and caution when supplying advise.

I'm sure I'm not alone here.
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OK!!!!
 
I'm new to this website but not to working out or dieting. I posted about SustEvol earlier today asking about it...well not about it but the side effects. I thought I did enough research on it but when i did my research the product had just come out so of course it was the "Greatest" thing ever. Needless to say now everyone says to dump it, get rid of it, trash it. Well of course I'm gonna be taken back by this so I decided no to take it today and wont' until I go to the doctors & get a Full Physical. Of course I asked close sources of mine about the product and they praised but also spoke ill of it, but ONLY if it is not taken properly. If you do not follow guidelines when taking foreign supplements such as the pro-hormones or Gear then there will be consiquences. If every precaution is taken then anyone who is taking a strong MT or steroid should be safer than someone who does not know how to take it at the begining and how to end it. So much goes into supplements. Someone might benifit from taking deca and test but someone else's body might not take that cycle as well. Basically after typing all of this what I'm trying to say is ALWAYS DO RESEARCH! Ask questions, make sure you know your body. Make Sure you've reached your "limits" naturally before trying to rush them. Your body will be more ready to take in the foreign supps as oppose to just taking them on your 1st visit to the gym. (Broken record but..) Make sure you have at least 3 years in the gym, at least a few years of dieting as well. Make sure your sources are legit and not your body who knows just as much as you or maybe less. Alright I'm done here because I definitely wrote way too much...BEST OF LUCK TO ALL!!!
 
This is the whole reason as did a friend of mine(sweetlou32937) after I did due in fact to the ill advice given and the quick temper that override any good done in the forums. For instance if a question is aked about any they feel is unreasonale(on that given day) they might shun you or try and put you down for how wrong you were for thinking this or that. It didnt happen to me but I was witness to this reoccuring problem way to many time! Anyways thanks to all at AM!!
 
Best way too look at when someone can make a comment or ask a question that some may feel is a waist of time to even answer or get aggrevated is...WE WERE ALL IN THERE SHOES AT 1 POINT IN OUR LIVES. The difference is, is that instead of giving them the Heisman, just point them in the right direction, because either we can help or know someone that can help. So far all I've seen in this whole website is positive feedback for everyone. Some are harsh but with good intentions. Great Site!:thumbsup:
 
B5150 said:
I can recall a time not so very long ago. A time when M1T was "extreme" in regard to its potential dangers. A time when use and mis-use was a very serious concern by many members on the board. A time when statements like; "every kid wanting to get huge will be eating this **** like candy" and was of a serious concern. Our conscienses were very finely tuned to the potential dangers of the use and abuse of these compounds by anyone, and especially young kids just coming into the BB world/sport, with very little to no training and diet experience.

Fast forward to today. We have 20-21yr olds weighing in at 145-165lb advising other 145-165lb kids who want to get huge by doing this or that methyl. Kids who don't know how to eat or train right. Kids who have trained for the first time in their lives now wanting to take steroids.

What happened? Where is the board conscience that used to be so prominant? Is there a board conscience?

Please note: I am not anti steroids, nor anti kids (young men), nor anti kids on steroids. I'm sure this may offend a few too many. But surely there are some here who remember "back in the day" when we used conscience and caution when supplying advise.

I'm sure I'm not alone here.
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All we can do is just try to educate. If we just hate new kids on the block we will do more harm than good.
 
I was reckless (not even that reckless highest I went was 20mg/d) with M1T and I'm pretty sure I'd have a better hairline if I didn't abuse it. I have always been on the safe side regarding gear and pct protocal, but I have had my side effects from different things I have done. You can never be too careful with this stuff.
 
I would like to say that I was one of the stupid kids who grabbed the m1t and popped it like candy. funny thing is that once I discovered the forums and sah all the adverse dangers of it I actually stopped. So these sites talking about the pro's and con's arenlt terrible, if anything they forced me to stop, lean how unbelievably important nutrition and training actually is. An old fart at my gym back in canada who sold the stuff said he wouldnlt sell anymore unless people could prove to him that they could make gains without it
 
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