AMP vs. RPM

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Patrick Arnold said:
well i think me doing this from time to time is productive. out of line marketing needs to be addressed. if my marketing were out of line i would understand if i were called out on it.

its not like i am saying your product sucks, its probably good. there are tons of great products out there and some even don't have the name ergopharm on them!!
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I whole heartily agree. It can be very productive. I belive in giving honest feedback and I call it as I see it.

Quite honestly I don't care for marketing period. And I question peoples motives or reasoning, and I find my own truth.

I have nothing to gain from saying RPM works. I have all to gain to say when I sampled AMP it was awesome, but when I bought a bottle it was not the same. Now you are in the works of reformulating it...

Anywho, rms handled himself with class IMO, and supported his claim, all without leading to insult and defimation of character. Whereas, your callowness remarks are unjustified for a person in your position; a business owner.
 
Not trying to really hit either side, as PA often seems to be coarser than necessary :) particularly early morning posts, but xj, didn't you say you'd never buy from one particular online retailer becuase they were unethical - they bought nutraplanet.net and had it point to their site? in a WAY PA is saying the same thing here, just maybe a bit more forceful and obnoxiously :D He's just saying that to him calling something a SERM or a SARM when it doesnt meet the definition is like calling creatine a steroid. Sure it makes your muscles bigger, so it has steroid like effects, but that doesn't mean that sensationalizing the ingredients list is ethical.

Yes I buy ergopharm products (6-oxo extreme) yes I buy AN products (osteobolin, neovar) and yes I buy products that are made by neither of them but have the same ingredients as their products (XPN AndroXtreme-D instead of 11-oxo due to price, and some bulks that have similar effects as AN products also due to price)

It would be nicer if PA was more pleasant about the way he said things, but he'd still take a beating any time he questioned products from anyone else, even if he had little hearts and smileys throughout his post. And I think we'd be worse off BY FAR if he didn't post here, as he raises questions many of us never would. Although maybe his motives are questionable (biz owner vs consumer advocate) no one has managed to question the chemistry portion. And so few of us know enough about that to be able to say "but its the extra alkylated something or another on the third ring of uranus that would likely add to suppression", that i'm glad someone asks. He also has been willing to admit it when he is shown to be wrong, or when a company actually has blood tests or clinical results to back up their claims. Saying "it massively increases testosterone" but not having blood or saliva tests to show that IS a bunch of BS
 
Patrick Arnold said:
well i think me doing this from time to time is productive. out of line marketing needs to be addressed. if my marketing were out of line i would understand if i were called out on it.

its not like i am saying your product sucks, its probably good. there are tons of great products out there and some even don't have the name ergopharm on them!!
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Absolutely, and I will take this into account on future product marketing- your point is valid and has been taken into consideration, and I appreciate the effort and interest you put into your argument, and you are an asset to this field.

Have a nice day ;)
 
PA I see where you are coming from about the marketing, but I like RPM so much that they can call it whatever they want as long as it works. Even if AN was like Fizogen and called it
methylRPMadrol I would still buy it because I know that it works. AN was smart about sending out free samples where they didn't say much about it so everyone was already so hooked on them that we overlooked the shady marketing ploy.
 
Hyde12 said:
PA I see where you are coming from about the marketing, but I like RPM so much that they can call it whatever they want as long as it works. Even if AN was like Fizogen and called it
methylRPMadrol I would still buy it because I know that it works. AN was smart about sending out free samples where they didn't say much about it so everyone was already so hooked on them that we overlooked the shady marketing ploy.
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Ah is your avatar from Brazil?
 
EasyEJL said:
Not trying to really hit either side, as PA often seems to be coarser than necessary :) particularly early morning posts,
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hey i have gotten alot better today. check out my posts on that other thread. i am keeeping cool while others are loosing their heads
 
rms80 said:
Absolutely, and I will take this into account on future product marketing- your point is valid and has been taken into consideration, and I appreciate the effort and interest you put into your argument, and you are an asset to this field.

Have a nice day ;)
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you gave the screen the middle finger after you hit enter didn't you

admit it
 
Patrick Arnold said:
hey i have gotten alot better today. check out my posts on that other thread. i am keeeping cool while others are loosing their heads
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True, the early ones were waaaaay worse :D you've cleaned up now. I don't even really mind the tone you use, cause even if you were all rainbows and butterflies wording wise, they'd still call you out for bashing another companies products. I really appreciate the questions you raise, as very few of us happen to have gas spectography machines laying around the house to run things through before we take them, or would know what the printout meant if we saw it.

The "faithful" can question your motives, but I very rarely if ever see them question the science. And since I don't understand that science well enough, i'm glad you ask the unpleasant questions about products sold for PCT without any clinical studies (often without a single blood test!) causing shutdown or things of that nature, particularly when its not simple herbals.

Applied Nutrceuticals is a more ethical and clean company than a lot of the others tho, i'll definitely give them credit for that. And they are cautious as Dirk has said, as a lot of their users are athletes who are tested, and they are very cautious to stay in the bounds of tested athletes, which is nice.
 
Patrick Arnold said:
you gave the screen the middle finger after you hit enter didn't you

admit it
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:D

It takes a lot more than something like this to get me pissed off- I actually enjoyed the discusson...
 
EasyEJL said:
Not trying to really hit either side, as PA often seems to be coarser than necessary :) particularly early morning posts, but xj, didn't you say you'd never buy from one particular online retailer becuase they were unethical - they bought nutraplanet.net and had it point to their site? in a WAY PA is saying the same thing here, just maybe a bit more forceful and obnoxiously :D He's just saying that to him calling something a SERM or a SARM when it doesnt meet the definition is like calling creatine a steroid. Sure it makes your muscles bigger, so it has steroid like effects, but that doesn't mean that sensationalizing the ingredients list is ethical.
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Actually not. I said: "Do you mean internet store? A big difference then a manufacturer.

Also, I heard shady reviews about them."

This was in response to your statement ...fairly well established company. Although, this their first product release???

I can go on about what I know about AN as company, and Dirk as a person, but that really is not relevant here.

PA’s agenda here is to sway naïve individuals like yourself into believing he is the consumer’s advocate, but the issue I have is, his intentions are not genuine. It is all about ErgoPharm’s bottom line, and he has that right. It is how he goes about it.

And when Chuck Diesel talks about ‘dick riders’, he would be referring to members as yourself…And I really don’t care to support this statement at this time, but will take it up with you later in my thread if you wish…
 
xjsynx said:
PA’s agenda here is to sway naïve individuals like yourself into believing he is the consumer’s advocate, but the issue I have is, his intentions are not genuine. It is all about ErgoPharm’s bottom line, and he has that right. It is how he goes about it.
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buddy you are so wrong

if it were about the bottom line i would choose products that really competed with and hurt us. most times the fights i pick are with very small companies with marginal products and sometimes i even pick fights with people that sell grey market crap which has nothing to do with the legit supp biz

i do this stuff cuz i hold scientific integrity high and because so often no on else questions alot of the crap out there. People that have followed me for a long time know this
 
This thread is OVER! Jeez. This is just completly stupid to keep arguing here. Fighting here is like winning the special olympics guys, even if you win your still a retard!
 
If we get back to that original debate - which one is better - AMP or RMP - we do not need to close this thread? Right?

So, which one is it, PA - I don't think you have still answered that one? ;)
 
Arzi75 said:
If we get back to that original debate - which one is better - AMP or RMP - we do not need to close this thread? Right?

So, which one is it, PA - I don't think you have still answered that one? ;)
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well if your only ask PA withone is better then is not a debate then its just PA opinion :trout:
 
I guess the whole question boils down to whether you prefer taking your caffeine (sorry, methyl xanthine caffeine anhydrous) and chocamine with either a tad of 1,3-dimethylamylamine which can give you a nice trip or with a hint of P-Sarmish or Sermish Icariin extract alongside some flavonoids and proanthocyadins (and L-Arginine).

So which do you prefer or are you hedging your bets? :D
 
I think I can safely assume that while RPM may, in theory or in a lab, have some sort of SARM properties, in reality its a great energy supplement that will almost certainly not cause any sort of large increase in muscle growth similar to steroids or prohormones.

Oh and it helps make your d1ck hard, unlike AMP.
 
Zombie said:
you forgot to say that he was running towards xj arms to hug him and ask for forgivenes cause of the things they said to heach other :toofunny:
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I still love xj, its just I can see the value in the conversations PA starts. Maybe there would be nicer ways to start the conversation, maybe everyone could keep on a cleaner even keel during it, but these tend to be not enormous companies, so everyone's ego is invested in their products. So everyone gets all emo ;) about their stuff, and it turns into the supplement company deathmatch, at least when some companies are involved. Here in this thread, it didnt. So what does that say? Is it PA who is the rabble rouser, or are some of the people from other supplement companies that react just as bad when he asks a question?

Pity, i've never tried AMP or RPM. I guess once the samples go out from the address contest i'll get some rpm at least. From what it sounds like, I should have been buying it all along.
 
Patrick Arnold said:
buddy you are so wrong

if it were about the bottom line i would choose products that really competed with and hurt us. most times the fights i pick are with very small companies with marginal products and sometimes i even pick fights with people that sell grey market crap which has nothing to do with the legit supp biz

i do this stuff cuz i hold scientific integrity high and because so often no on else questions alot of the crap out there. People that have followed me for a long time know this
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Just my opininon. I form them on my own ;)

And I don't mind the questioning. I think your work is brilliant, but you are like that athlete that just steps on peoples toes and don't care who you hurt in the process, because they think they are above every one else.

You are a great scientist, but have horrible people skills.

I read articles making the same claims and posing questions you do; however, they are done so in a fashion where they do not bash or try to discredit individuals, but support their claims with facts, science, studies, and explain it in English for those of us who aren't chemist and the like...
 
Arzi75 said:
If we get back to that original debate - which one is better - AMP or RMP - we do not need to close this thread? Right?

So, which one is it, PA - I don't think you have still answered that one? ;)
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What do you like better. Apples or Oranges?
 
Zombie said:
well if your only ask PA withone is better then is not a debate then its just PA opinion :trout:
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I'm asking PA that because that is the original question he did not directly answer - he just bashed RPM for quite misleadingly being marketed for being a P-SARM. Like I did, too.

On the other hand looking at the very thorough explanation from rms and Lanbane, I kind of concur that Icariin has a lot of P-Sarm-ish qualities and rms's trail-blazing effort to pigeonhole it may not have been totally in vain.

But I still think the marketing was a little misleading as the product as a whole is not - in my mind - a phytochemical SARM just because Icariin might share some P-Sarmish functions. :D
 
Arzi75 said:
:D That's puerile. Oranges. :D
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Actually it is not. It is a very common anolgy.

The bottom line is AMP and RPM aren't the same kind of product.

You could use them in a similar fashion, but each one was is different.

If you want to compare AMP, compare it to Spike, Stimulant X, X-Force, Adrenaline, etc...
 
xjsynx said:
Actually it is not. It is a very common anolgy.

The bottom line is AMP and RPM aren't the same kind of product.

You could use them in a similar fashion, but each one was is different.

If you want to compare AMP, compare it to Spike, Stimulant X, X-Force, Adrenaline, etc...
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well said, exactly what I was going to say!

and the banana thing, its a song by System of a Down!
 
xjsynx said:
Actually it is not. It is a very common anolgy.

The bottom line is AMP and RPM aren't the same kind of product.

You could use them in a similar fashion, but each one was is different.

If you want to compare AMP, compare it to Spike, Stimulant X, X-Force, Adrenaline, etc...
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redline.

Yeah, they are pretty different, its like comparing neovar to pslin. Sure they have some overlap of effect, but are quite different
 
Hyde12 said:
I like RPM so much that they can call it whatever they want as long as it works. Even if AN was like Fizogen and called it
methylRPMadrol
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hahaha
 
FrankJ said:
I think I can safely assume that while RPM may, in theory or in a lab, have some sort of SARM properties,
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actually the use of the term SARM, even in regards to having similar "effects", is completely wrong

IS not a SARM a molecule that is supposed to impart anabolic effects with little or no androgenic effects?

Icariin is reported to increase testosterone levels and therefore have the expected anabolic/androgenic activity of testosterone. No divergence between the two activities just the standard one to one ratio

So even by the definition APN is trying to use calling it a SARM is inappropriate
 
xjsynx said:
I read articles making the same claims and posing questions you do; however, they are done so in a fashion where they do not bash or try to discredit individuals, but support their claims with facts, science, studies, and explain it in English for those of us who aren't chemist and the like...
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don't make comparisons between my postings and formal articles

have you read my articles? i like to think they are very fair, professional, and honest
 
I love RPM, but if I needed to stay away for a long period of time then I would take Clear Shot (super AMP). That s*** gave me so much freaking energy that I didn't know what to do.
 
Patrick Arnold said:
it has nothing to do with a SARM and stop saying that. A SARM binds to and activates an androgen receptor. Icariin has one or two studies suggesting it raises endogenous testosterone

i might as well call 6-OXO a SARM.

you are using the word SARM because it is a hot buzz word now, and then finding indirect causational properties as some sort of evidence

its like me saying that pamela anderson brushes her teeth in the morning and so does Larry King, therefore Larry King is a hot chick
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How about another analogy - it's like marketing vodka as having steroid like properties because of the effect on the liver.
 
Thanks for all the company updates and comparisons, but please get back to the original intent of this thread.

Have you used AMP and RPM? If so, how do they compare and which is your preference and why?
 
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