6bromo bloodwork..

quigs said:
It appears that this may be very good for reducing estrogen on cycle. This is why I've been trying to get answers here. It appears that the alpha isomer will convert to an androgenic steroid, while the beta will be largely androgenically inactive. The beta however will still bind aromatase, reducing estrogen levels.

It seems to me that this could be really cool to throw into a "wet" cycle (Dbol, Test, 4AD, etc) in order to control estrogen and also provide anabolic properties itself.
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why bother, formestane is much better. and it is proven to do just that. besides formestane is much cheaper.
 
thebigt said:
why bother, formestane is much better. and it is proven to do just that. besides formestane is much cheaper.
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Jury is still out on which is "better" IMO, but there are many advantages to using 6-bromo over formestane. It's effective orally (unlike formestane) for those who don't want to use a transdermal, its more readily available, and certainly much more convenient. Unfortunately, I've yet to see ANY research done on the stuff so we really can't make any definitive statements on 6-bromo's efficacy.
 
UNCfan1 said:
He didn't say that he recommened using 6-bromo over formestane. Just comparing.
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he didnt even mention formestane in that quote. as for comparing, lots of research has been done on form, bloodwork included. imo formestane wins hands down.
 
Being as not very much research at all has been done on 6-bromo we really cant debate which is better. Just that it seems they would be similar in action. Part of the debate would have to be 6-bromotestosterone v/s 4-hydroxytestosterone and we obviously have nothing concrete on 6-bromotestosterone. Also are there estrogenic metabolites for 6-bromo? Common sense says they should be similar, but which is better may never be known, IMPO.
 
jasonschaffin said:
Being as not very much research at all has been done on 6-bromo we really cant debate which is better. Just that it seems they would be similar in action. Part of the debate would have to be 6-bromotestosterone v/s 4-hydroxytestosterone and we obviously have nothing concrete on 6-bromotestosterone. Also are there estrogenic metabolites for 6-bromo? Common sense says they should be similar, but which is better may never be known, IMPO.
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i have tried both, and imo hdx2 doesnt hold a candle to formestane. both as anti-e and as test booster. i also wouldnt use formestane as pct. best used with something like activate/standalone or on cycle. jmo. if i did use form for pct it would only be for 1st 2 weeks followed by atd or 6oxo. cant be to careful.:thumbsup:
 
thebigt said:
he didnt even mention formestane in that quote. as for comparing, lots of research has been done on form, bloodwork included. imo formestane wins hands down.
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You are right. It was Jason that mentioned it above. I agree with u on formestane. Putting glasses on right now lol.
 
UNCfan1 said:
You are right. It was Jason that mentioned it above. I agree with u on formestane. Putting glasses on right now lol.
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cool, i appreciate it. dont get many people to agree with me these days.:thumbsup:
 
jasonschaffin said:
what shall this cycle be? I like the sound of scary....for you not me, lol, I'm a pussy. Do you have it planned already? Another thread perhaps?
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Right now Im debating M1T and superdrol at higher doses for 5 weeks. Yes together. Hell maybe even add trenaplex or trenadrol in there for some further increased aggression. I figure Ill take all three of the things known to make people nasty and use my newfound anger to throw up heavier weights. Well see if that sticks, but I think it could be fun.
 
thebigt said:
i have tried both, and imo hdx2 doesnt hold a candle to formestane. both as anti-e and as test booster. i also wouldnt use formestane as post cycle therapy. best used with something like activate/standalone or on cycle. jmo. if i did use form for post cycle therapy it would only be for 1st 2 weeks followed by atd or 6oxo. cant be to careful.:thumbsup:
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Well in that case if you have used both, go with what you like better! Agreed, not a good idea for PCT w/so many better options.
 
jasonschaffin said:
Well in that case if you have used both, go with what you like better! Agreed, not a good idea for post cycle therapy w/so many better options.
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2 reasons i like form better. 1 it bypasses liver. 2 you can apply it to the area you want it to work on. ie put it right on chest/abs/thighs etc. it will circulate though whole body, but initial absoption will get those areas the most. :food:
 
are we STILL waiting for Patrick Arnold to voice his opinion on this one? eesh, I figured I would have had something by now..
 
V00D00 said:
are we STILL waiting for Patrick Arnold to voice his opinion on this one? eesh, I figured I would have had something by now..
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He's already commented on the issue of a 6-bromo isomer possibly being metabolized to the [likely] androgen 6-bromotest, and therefore is possibly suppressive and not the best choice for post cycle therapy. I posted my Test/Free Test bloodwork on the NHA stack in that thread and we both agreed on the possibility that my increased Test may not be the result of natural Test production... rather from 6-bromotest being cross-reactive on a standard Test immunoassay.

From a scientific perspective, the most direct way to measure if 6-bromo is suppressive (via production of androgenic metabolites) is to distinguish natural Test from exogenous Test in one's blood. There are methods to do this, just not readily accessible to ordinary folk like us AFAIK.
 
SubliminalX said:
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He's already commented on the issue of a 6-bromo isomer possibly being metabolized to the [likely] androgen 6-bromotest, and therefore is possibly suppressive and not the best choice for post cycle therapy. I posted my Test/Free Test bloodwork on the NHA stack in that thread and we both agreed on the possibility that my increased Test may not be the result of natural Test production... rather from 6-bromotest being cross-reactive on a standard Test immunoassay.

From a scientific perspective, the most direct way to measure if 6-bromo is suppressive (via production of androgenic metabolites) is to distinguish natural Test from exogenous Test in one's blood. There are methods to do this, just not readily accessible to ordinary folk like us AFAIK.
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Sure. while you were taking it, not after dropping intake (2pills for a week-1pill for a week) and then waiting a week without anything in your system.. does anyone know the half life of 6bromo.
 
Does anyone have any blood tests (before and after) of some of the more popular test boosters on the market today? It would be nice to see some forum members with this info if possible. Studies are great, but you also need to consider the source of funding in these.
 
Viperspit said:
Does anyone have any blood tests (before and after) of some of the more popular test boosters on the market today? It would be nice to see some forum members with this info if possible. Studies are great, but you also need to consider the source of funding in these.
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I posted by labs earlier in this thread, but here it is again attached below -- done independently of DS funding because I'm rich. :head:

English translation of the tests: Rebound Reloaded + ACT doesn't negatively affect blood chemistry and results in significant elevation of Test and Free Test (although not clear if it's the result of 6-bromoTest or natural Test).
 

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SubliminalX said:
I posted by labs earlier in this thread, but here it is again attached below -- done independently of DS funding because I'm rich. :head:

English translation of the tests: Rebound Reloaded + ACT doesn't negatively affect blood chemistry and results in significant elevation of Test and Free Test (although not clear if it's the result of 6-bromoTest or natural Test).
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interesting....
 
so i wonder how well dim or 13c stacks up against 6-bromo.
 
Having considered the data here and the closed 6-bromo thread started by Patrick Arnold, I've decided to go back to using 50mgs of steroidal ATD every 5th day, my previous protocol, as the best way I've tried, so far, from long term feel and blood testing*, to up T and drop E without pushing the E too low for a loss of libido and the negative effect on brain, bones and the Cardiovascular.

All AI's, competitive or suicide, push E too low if used too frequently, the trick is to use enough and not too much and/or too frequently. I based that ATD dosing from the available Exemestane Pharmokenetics on dosing and duration, since specific ATD info is unavaliable. Best guess type stuff.

* - my blood tests are suspect, the E2 was where I wanted it to be, low and not too much so, and the T was very high, nice but I'm unsure if ATD maybe falsely skews the T level.

ALRI praises 6-Bromo, but I would like to know Author's credentials, I suspect he and his people are short on applied biochemistry and long on marketing skill.
 
Rogue Drone said:
Having considered the data here and the closed 6-bromo thread started by Patrick Arnold, I've decided to go back to using 50mgs of steroidal ATD every 5th day, my previous protocol, as the best way I've tried, so far, from long term feel and blood testing*, to up T and drop E without pushing the E too low for a loss of libido and the negative effect on brain, bones and the Cardiovascular.

All AI's, competitive or suicide, push E too low if used too frequently, the trick is to use enough and not too much and/or too frequently. I based that ATD dosing from the available Exemestane Pharmokenetics on dosing and duration, since specific ATD info is unavaliable. Best guess type stuff.

* - my blood tests are suspect, the E2 was where I wanted it to be, low and not too much so, and the T was very high, nice but I'm unsure if ATD maybe falsely skews the T level.

ALRI praises 6-Bromo, but I would like to know Author's credentials, I suspect he and his people are short on applied biochemistry and long on marketing skill.
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Obviously we must take the T numbers w/a grain of salt, but what were your E numbers w/this dosing protocol?
 
quigs said:
The other issue is that the 6-bromotestosterone (which 6-bromo most likely converts to) may show up as natural testosterone on an immunological assay.

This would mean that any bloodwork done on 6-bromo may be measuring levels of 6-bromotest + natural testosterone, rather than just endogenous test levels. This would greatly distort lab values...making the bloodwork essentially useless in determining level of test production.
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You guys should not be so easily conned. Don't believe everything you hear, especially when they can't bring evidence to support their words and clearly have ulterior reasons. Kind of a no-brainer fella.
 
jasonschaffin said:
Obviously we must take the T numbers w/a grain of salt, but what were your E numbers w/this dosing protocol?
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Obviously, you are easily conned! I saw the bloodwork on 6-Br, I alpha tested it myself, as always. So did SS. It does not drive E too low (well, there are differences in isomers and timing) but believe whom you like and I can only vouch for AX products. Just that simple guys. If I'm telling lies, then **** me and do whatever you want.

Start listening to results and logs, that's where the real proof is, obviously.
 
DR.D said:
You guys should not be so easily conned. Don't believe everything you hear, especially when they can't bring evidence to support their words and clearly have ulterior reasons. Kind of a no-brainer fella.
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I haven't seen any evidence to support or refute the claims that 6-alpha-bromotest is an androgenic metabolite of 6-bromoandro. Yes, the bloodwork shows increased Test in 6-bromo users, but that in and of itself doesn't answer anything. It just shows increased Test. But where did it come from?

I'm just looking for answers.
 
SubliminalX said:
I haven't seen any evidence to support or refute the claims that 6-alpha-bromotest is an androgenic metabolite of 6-bromoandro. Yes, the bloodwork shows increased Test in 6-bromo users, but that in and of itself doesn't answer anything. It just shows increased Test. But where did it come from?

I'm just looking for answers.
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The test, as you put it, comes from you! Where else? You think enzyme assays are so insensitive as to detect a false substrate halogenated (and very acidic) in a crucial spot of the molecule?!
 
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DR.D said:
The test, as you put it, comes from you! Where else? You think enzyme assays are so insensitive as to detect a false substrate halogenated (and very acidic) in a crucial spot of the molecule?! Even Pat knows better than that. He's talking **** and Bruce already tried that a year and a half ago. Why do you think I just ignored it this time? Gimme a break.

I'm just looking for real questions. Why now, why all the speculation now?
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Because most of us are not chemist. When a chemist brings up a topic that 6-bromo may not be the best PCT anit-e then we wonder. His arguments made since with the small amount of organic chem I do know.
If there is no way that 6-bromotestosterone could show up as testosterone on a blood test than that is great, why didn't you tell us earlier?
How can ATD give a false positive for testosterone? Or is that not true either?
I was not for 6-bromo in PCT strictly because after all the debate it really reminded me of Formestane. By this I mean good product, just not during PCT. I started to read your thread on BB.com with Bruce and it was long and full of **** so I quit. Did Bruce finally give in to you back then?
 
Obviously we must take the T numbers w/a grain of salt, but what were your E numbers w/this dosing protocol?
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DR.D said:
Obviously, you are easily conned! I saw the bloodwork on 6-Br, I alpha tested it myself, as always. So did SS. It does not drive E too low (well, there are differences in isomers and timing) but believe whom you like and I can only vouch for AX products. Just that simple guys. If I'm telling lies, then **** me and do whatever you want.

Start listening to results and logs, that's where the real proof is, obviously.
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This post is referring to ATD blood test numbers. They can show a false positive for test right? Why is it that ATD can do this but 6-bromotestosterone cannot? I really want to know so I can have a solid confirmation on this. Am I wrong about the ATD numbers, I thought this was pretty common knowledge, maybe I missed something.
 
jasonschaffin said:
Because most of us are not chemist. When a chemist brings up a topic that 6-bromo may not be the best post cycle therapy anit-e then we wonder. His arguments made since with the small amount of organic chem I do know.
If there is no way that 6-bromotestosterone could show up as testosterone on a blood test than that is great, why didn't you tell us earlier?
How can ATD give a false positive for testosterone? Or is that not true either?
I was not for 6-bromo in PCT strictly because after all the debate it really reminded me of Formestane. By this I mean good product, just not during PCT. I started to read your thread on BB.com with Bruce and it was long and full of **** so I quit. Did Bruce finally give in to you back then?
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Sorry, I went off on a tangent there for a second. :)

I really don't want to argue with you my friend, all I'm saying is yes I shot Bruce down on this already and thought I made it pretty clear back then. No way 6-Br will cause a false reaction, it won't even activate aromatase much less a sensitive, specific enzyme assay. I suspect ATD does it because it actually converts to some high degree, but even if it doesn't, you should recognize the difference between a steric/electronic binding inhibitor like a big, bulky, charged halogen function at the C6 and a missing hydrogen molecule. We're talking apples and oranges!

The claims against 6-Br were all just speculation anyway since I still see no proof for this argument even 1.5 years later, and it's poor speculation at that with no supporting science at all, just the opposite in fact if you've read the Vida. I think I established this very well at bb.com already.
 
DR.D said:
Sorry, I went off on a tangent there for a second. :)

I really don't want to argue with you my friend, all I'm saying is yes I shot Bruce down on this already and thought I made it pretty clear back then. No way 6-Br will cause a false reaction, it won't even activate aromatase much less a sensitive, specific enzyme assay. I suspect ATD does it because it actually converts to some high degree, but even if it doesn't, you should recognize the difference between a steric/electronic binding inhibitor like a big, bulky, charged halogen function at the C6 and a missing hydrogen molecule. We're talking apples and oranges!

The claims against 6-Br were all just speculation anyway since I still see no proof for this argument even 1.5 years later, and it's poor speculation at that with no supporting science at all, just the opposite in fact if you've read the Vida. I think I established this very well at bb.com already.
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LOL, good point on that, but I don't know enough about how the blood test works I guess. I didn't read the bb.com thread, way too long.
As far a VIDA(haven't read it, dont have a copy), I thought that it was supposed from that to possibly be androgenic (although lightly) as 6-chloro and 6-flouro were. If I read into that wrong my bad.
I don't want to argue either (with you), as you are talking chemistry and not "6-bromo works, I felt like my test levels went up 3x normal", I respect your knowledge very much. I still think 6-bromo is a great product I am just to paranoid to use it if I ever need a good PCT though I think.
If there is no way that 6-bromotest would show up on a blood test I would like to apologize to the starter of this thread for calling his test out like this.

However, if I ever find out it can give a false positive I reserve the right to take back my apology.....:duel:
 
Alright, thanks for the clarification DD. I don't live on the internet unfortunately (rather, in the gyms of course), nor do I have the chemistry background of you top dawgs. I only recently considered the 6-bromo debate when PA brought it up not too long ago.
 
jasonschaffin said:
... However, if I ever find out it can give a false positive I reserve the right to take back my apology.....:duel:
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Now that's fair. :lol: I will then issue my apology in place of yours.

Basically, androgeny always drops in cases of 6-halogenation. Even if the A/A ratio is improved, androgenic potential falls and falls quite dramatically at that, in most cases, so you no longer have an androgen, you actually have an inverse androgen. In the case of 6-Br, it may be just enough above zero % to retain libido support, but still not strong enough to act as a true androgen. 3% relative androgeny is no longer a "weak androgen", that's just an unfair and erroneous designation. That's like saying SERMs are mildly estrogenic. Well sure they are, but the net effect is that of an anti-estrogen! Get it? It's the fact that it is so weak that it works just the opposite.

Don't believe the crap you've been told, I've seen the bloodwork for myself.
 
DR.D said:
Now that's fair. :lol: I will then issue my apology in place of yours.

Basically, androgeny always drops in cases of 6-halogenation. Even if the A/A ratio is improved, androgenic potential falls and falls quite dramatically at that, in most cases, so you no longer have an androgen, you actually have an inverse androgen. In the case of 6-Br, it may be just enough above zero % to retain libido support, but still not strong enough to act as a true androgen. 3% relative androgeny is no longer a "weak androgen", that's just an unfair and erroneous designation. That's like saying SERMs are mildly estrogenic. Well sure they are, but the net effect is that of an anti-estrogen! Get it? It's the fact that it is so weak that it works just the opposite.

Don't believe the crap you've been told, I've seen the bloodwork for myself.
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:goodpost:

Well I do feel much more comfortable now w/6-bromo. Hopefully nobody tries to come in and confuse me anymore! I say for now I will have to go with this explanation. Thanks D. Great analogy with the SERM.
 
DR.D said:
Don't believe the crap you've been told, I've seen the bloodwork for myself.
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If someone can isolate 6-bromotestosterone and show it doesn't light up a standard Testosterone immunoassay, I'll be convinced. :thumbsup:

Otherwise, all we're talking about is theories one way or another, right?
 
SubliminalX said:
If someone can isolate 6-bromotestosterone and show it doesn't light up a standard Testosterone immunoassay, I'll be convinced. :thumbsup:

Otherwise, all we're talking about is theories one way or another, right?
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Yes, theories, but the bloodwork doesn't lie. Test levels parallel other endocrine changes, like estrogen levels, and are inverse to FSH levels and also LH levels, depending on how much estrogen is suppressed and how much DHT formation occurs. This is reasonably predictable. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck... go figure, that's all I'm saying.

But the theory that it's actually inhibiting testosterone biosynthesis is simply retarded. Why does it raise test levels then?! Because it's acting as a false substrate on the assay? OK, then why don't the levels of 6-Br ingested match the increased testosterone levels proportionately? They should if that were the case, but there is a cut off. I will try to dig up the bloodwork, or maybe SS still has it, but 6-Br is not an androgen. That is my whole point. It is perfect in post cycle therapy.
 
DR.D said:
Test levels parallel other endocrine changes, like estrogen levels, and are inverse to FSH levels and also LH levels, depending on how much estrogen is suppressed and how much DHT formation occurs.
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Ah, good point about FSH and LH. If FSH and LH do go up with 6-bromo, then that would suggest it's not directly androgenic (or have metabolites that are) and stimulates the HPTA as advertised.

That's the best answer I've heard thus far. Arguing about this functional group vs. that functional group and how *in theory* they should react in a biological system is just that. Direct evidence that 6-bromotest doesn't light up on the assay is still the most convincing answer. But corroborating biological evidence is almost as good.
 
jasonschaffin said:
It does prove its not suppressive however if anyone thought it may be because of its metabolites!

Edit: Question, did you not take any SERM so you could test out HDX2 or did you just decide you didn't need one?
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if you recall, what i was comparing it to was formestane which has both androgenic and anti-aromatase properties. the former cancels out the latter to some extent making the product ultimately a poor test elevator

same with this stuff. really, you are better off with a non-androgenic anti-aromatase. even if 6-bromo does balance out to have a little test stim action it will always be a poor choice versus a "clean" anti-aromatase
 
V00D00 said:
See I would, but I dont do "sane." My next cycle is going to be truly scary. ;)
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V00D00, looking at your blood work, its clear to me that the last cycle dinged your liver. Take action and watch it on your next one. By not aking a serm you saved more liver harshness, but just be aware of it bro and don't inhale no pesticides.
 
Man, its good to know that PA and Dr D don't sleep alot, I thought I was wrong for posting when I should be sleeping.
 
Patrick Arnold said:
if you recall, what i was comparing it to was formestane which has both androgenic and anti-aromatase properties. the former cancels out the latter to some extent making the product ultimately a poor test elevator

same with this stuff. really, you are better off with a non-androgenic anti-aromatase. even if 6-bromo does balance out to have a little test stim action it will always be a poor choice versus a "clean" anti-aromatase
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Pat could you give an example of what you believe to be a "clean" anti-aromatase.....
 
Patrick Arnold said:
if you recall, what i was comparing it to was formestane which has both androgenic and anti-aromatase properties. the former cancels out the latter to some extent making the product ultimately a poor test elevator

same with this stuff. really, you are better off with a non-androgenic anti-aromatase. even if 6-bromo does balance out to have a little test stim action it will always be a poor choice versus a "clean" anti-aromatase
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And thats kinda what I thought the whole time, I will see if I can find my post in this thread earlier. It may raise test even if it is slightly androgenic because of its anti-e properties. Dr.D has eased my worries that 6-bromotest may show up on the blood tests as test. My conclusions: (although probably not completely right)

6-bromo great standalone ala formestane (but good orally!)
6-bromo doesn't hinder post cycle therapy but not the #1 option
6-bromo gives slight(er) test elevation, doesn't crush estrogen
 
jasonschaffin said:
That may very well be what is great about 6-bromo standalone or during a cycle. Lower estrogen, be slightly androgenic and hopefully the AI capability is enough to not let test drop. Still don't believe it to be good for recover but to me it still resembles something like Formestane.
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This is what I originally said, I stand by it but instead of "not let test drop" make it "keep test normal, maybe even raise it slightly".
 
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