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prohormones 1ad and 4ad

from what I understand they are bunk...I think I read somewhere that the 1 AD is basically just DHEA.
 
mfbb said:
from what I understand they are bunk...I think I read somewhere that the 1 AD is basically just DHEA.
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it is supposed to be a delta-1 analog of DHEA, which would make it a 1-AD precursor

i am not sure if the product contains this or not
 
From my uderstanding they were precursorst to 1-AD and 4-AD. That makes them a precursor to a precursor.

Before anyone gets the idea that a 4-AD precursor is a good thing, let's explore why (even if this is true) it is still total crap:

Since real 4-AD converts to test @ a rate of 5%, we'll assume AMS's 4-AD will convert to real 4-AD at a rate of 5%. If that is the actual case, then only 0.25% whatever you take is going to actually make its way into becoming testosterone.
 
thesinner said:
From my uderstanding they were precursorst to 1-AD and 4-AD. That makes them a precursor to a precursor.

Before anyone gets the idea that a 4-AD precursor is a good thing, let's explore why (even if this is true) it is still total crap:

Since real 4-AD converts to test @ a rate of 5%, we'll assume AMS's 4-AD will convert to real 4-AD at a rate of 5%. If that is the actual case, then only 0.25% whatever you take is going to actually make its way into becoming testosterone.
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nice numbers bro,yea it's for the stupid,and dumb fu*ks that think somehow a banned substance came back like magic...I'm pretty psyced about 3ad however....
 
thesinner said:
From my uderstanding they were precursorst to 1-AD and 4-AD. That makes them a precursor to a precursor.

Before anyone gets the idea that a 4-AD precursor is a good thing, let's explore why (even if this is true) it is still total crap:

Since real 4-AD converts to test @ a rate of 5%, we'll assume AMS's 4-AD will convert to real 4-AD at a rate of 5%. If that is the actual case, then only 0.25% whatever you take is going to actually make its way into becoming testosterone.
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you cannot use the in-vitro numbers like this to come to any conclusion relevant to in-vivo reality

This is what the case with this stuff basically is. The 4-AD precursor will convert quickly and efficiently into 4-androstenedione. It will do this much more preferentially than the pathway towards 4-AD (the 4-en-3beta-ol group oxidizes rapidly). After that, androstenedione will go through its known pathways

the 1-AD precursor should similarly convert effectively into 1-androstenedione.

We know, or I do at least, that 4-androstenedione is a prohormone with problems - it goes to estrone too easily and its conversion to testosterone is not fantastic

OTOH, 1-androstenedione converts well into 1-testosterone. Aromatization is not an issue. 1-androstenedione is an effective prohormone
 
TripDog said:
nice numbers bro,yea it's for the stupid,and dumb fu*ks that think somehow a banned substance came back like magic...I'm pretty psyced about 3ad however....
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you are psyched about 3-Ad. what is 3-ad?

please don't tell me you are psyched about it without even knowing what it is
 
thesinner said:
From my uderstanding they were precursorst to 1-AD and 4-AD. That makes them a precursor to a precursor.

Before anyone gets the idea that a 4-AD precursor is a good thing, let's explore why (even if this is true) it is still total crap:

Since real 4-AD converts to test @ a rate of 5%, we'll assume AMS's 4-AD will convert to real 4-AD at a rate of 5%. If that is the actual case, then only 0.25% whatever you take is going to actually make its way into becoming testosterone.
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It converts to test at 15% not 5.
 
5% or 15% whats the difference. Unless there is some tremendous bioavailabilty your splitting hairs...no?
 
Patrick Arnold said:
you are psyched about 3-Ad. what is 3-ad?

please don't tell me you are psyched about it without even knowing what it is
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psyced about the hype.....i don't mess with bullsh*t prohormones (orals)for that matter.......I like the hype behind it...will i ever use it...hell no....the only orals imo worth anything are superdrol,and a very select few.....plain and simple pat...orals are rough on the body...why waste time playing with(well maybee this will convert sh!t) You need to stop taking all these posts seriously like your life somehow depends on them...wtf,relax
 
Patrick Arnold said:
you cannot use the in-vitro numbers like this to come to any conclusion relevant to in-vivo reality

This is what the case with this stuff basically is. The 4-AD precursor will convert quickly and efficiently into 4-androstenedione. It will do this much more preferentially than the pathway towards 4-AD (the 4-en-3beta-ol group oxidizes rapidly). After that, androstenedione will go through its known pathways

the 1-AD precursor should similarly convert effectively into 1-androstenedione.

We know, or I do at least, that 4-androstenedione is a prohormone with problems - it goes to estrone too easily and its conversion to testosterone is not fantastic

OTOH, 1-androstenedione converts well into 1-testosterone. Aromatization is not an issue. 1-androstenedione is an effective prohormone
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My bad, I knew the numbers, but didn't know from what they were based. The main purpose of that post was to prevent someone from saying "so it's basically like getting 4-AD" in this thread.


T-Bone said:
It converts to test at 15% not 5.
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I'm thinking of the ketone version, and you're referring to the alcohol version. But you are correct with 15%.
 
Motox said:
YEA boy 3ad!!!:dance: :head:
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hahah,carefull now pat arnold doesn't agree,and that means...well...(blink,blink) absolutly nothing to me :head:
 
I think he's just trying to point out the fact that you shouldn't blindy follow into the hype. I mean, if we all took things because they were hyped up, we'd all be taking the entire MuscleTech line.
 
thesinner said:
I think he's just trying to point out the fact that you shouldn't blindy follow into the hype. I mean, if we all took things because they were hyped up, we'd all be taking the entire MuscleTech line.
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Very true...but Anabolic Extreme has a very good rep. of making home-run products so I think this product will live up to the hype.
 
mfbb said:
Very true...but Anabolic Extreme has a very good rep. of making home-run products so I think this product will live up to the hype.
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I agree. I have much respect for the folks at AX, as well as Dr. D (who I'm pretty sure was involved in designing this one), and don't doubt that this will be a solid product. However, there is currently not enough information out about 3-AD for the consumer to make an 'informed' desision as to its effectiveness.
 
youve allready got first hand testers excerpts telling us what its done and i trust AX enough to know they arent embelishing these claims.... plus mace himself has dropped multiple hints throughout the thread, hype man or not mace is very trustworthy. i belive it will do all it claims.... and hopefully will get the chance through testing to show everyone just as much.
 
thesinner said:
I think he's just trying to point out the fact that you shouldn't blindy follow into the hype. I mean, if we all took things because they were hyped up, we'd all be taking the entire MuscleTech line.
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indeed: hype != information...

hey, PA - welcome back!
 
TripDog said:
psyced about the hype.....i don't mess with bullsh*t prohormones (orals)for that matter.......I like the hype behind it...will i ever use it...hell no....the only orals imo worth anything are superdrol,and a very select few.....plain and simple pat...orals are rough on the body...why waste time playing with(well maybee this will convert sh!t) You need to stop taking all these posts seriously like your life somehow depends on them...wtf,relax
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what did i say to get you so worked up man
 
Patrick Arnold said:
jeezus christ if you only knew the irony of that statement
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why is it ironic? you said yourself you wont touch any PH or PS, thats the topic of discusion here. not saying you arent a man of innovation and cant come up with ANYTHING, i just know that your not willing to go around the questionable substances cause of your current legal situation, thus my statement regarding your comment in the 3-ad catagory.
 
Moyer said:
If only 1-AD were still legal.


BTW, what ever happened to Hyperdrol? I heard a lot about it before it came out, but haven't heard anything since.
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:gotsearch dude TONS of people have used it with much success and even more so with the new Hyperdrol X-2 version. just cause you havnt seen it presented to you on a platter dont mean its not there. and i too wish 1-AD were still legal, wonder who came up with that one:rolleyes:
 
LOL OH REALLY! i though he was outta the PH competition and therefore was a good 3rd party argument in the whole Epi fiasco..... oh well. guess i can take my foot outta my mouth by now, lookin forward to it PA, as much as i dont like the way you handle your self in multiple situations you bring stellar items to the market. i hope this one is promising, got some reading to do now.
 
LMAO nevermind, i think ill try PA's compound when its called 3-AD and released by AX, innovative my ass, you got yourself some good spy's there eh pat???
 
and dont paly the researching in 2003 card, i bet you cant count the number of substances youve researched or pulled from vida then gave up on... now you hear that someone else got it to work its back to the drawing boards with this one... once again ill go with the AX version of this compound if it comes down that they are the same..... right now im no doubting a bit that they are.
 
Patrick Arnold said:
i feel sorry for you man
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lol its ok, if it turns out differently then again ill pull my foot out my mouth but when you even say yourself it may be the same then im not happy and not gonna give you credit for being innovative, credit givin where credits due and AX has done all the hyping liscensing and legwork for this compound so they will get my dough..... although IF this is diff i WILL turn around and applaude you and give you your credit and some of my dough... it just dont look good right now.:nono:
 
poopypants said:
and dont paly the researching in 2003 card, i bet you cant count the number of substances youve researched or pulled from vida then gave up on... now you hear that someone else got it to work its back to the drawing boards with this one... once again ill go with the AX version of this compound if it comes down that they are the same..... right now im no doubting a bit that they are.
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if i had a nickel for every time some competitor has claimed i stole their idea i would......i would.....start my own supplement company!
 
poopypants said:
lol its ok, if it turns out differently then again ill pull my foot out my mouth but when you even say yourself it may be the same then im not happy and not gonna give you credit for being innovative, credit givin where credits due and AX has done all the hyping liscensing and legwork for this compound so they will get my dough..... although IF this is diff i WILL turn around and applaude you and give you your credit and some of my dough... it just dont look good right now.:nono:
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poopypants do you think you are doing AX any favors by discussing this here in this fashion?

do you think they want people to believe that my new product is the same as their future product?
 
im sure in some respects they dont, at the same time im sure YOU dont want people to think that so you dont get any negative attention regarding YOUR new supplement. so until im asked to just let it drop by THEM or find out you havnt miraculously come up with the exact same thing at the same time then ill be screamin bloody murder. :D have a nice day.
 
as much as i dont like the way you handle your self in multiple situations

innovative my ass, you got yourself some good spy's there eh pat???

until im asked to just let it drop by THEM or find out you havnt miraculously come up with the exact same thing at the same time then ill be screamin bloody murder. have a nice day.
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poopypants.

It is obvious that you are an intelligent and knowledgeable kid. It is also obvious that you are arrogant, rude, and rather offensive. The majority of you contributions contain this sort of behavior. The way in which you express yourself is very unappreciated. Additionally, personal defamation of PA or ANY member here is very unacceptable. You may be a gold member, you may be a genius nerd, or a rocket scientist, but your opinions are presented in a very unbecoming and unflattering manner. I am going to ask you once, to please refrain from this sort of behavior and dialog on this board. You want to act that way somehwre else, and they have no issue with it, then so be it. But as long as you post here you will be polite, respectful and professional. I hope I make myself clear. This does not apply to just yourself, but the entire community. This behavior ends now.

Thanks
 
poopypants said:
im sure in some respects they dont, at the same time im sure YOU dont want people to think that so you dont get any negative attention regarding YOUR new supplement.
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so you are saying that AX's promos constitute negative attention?

how so?

wouldn't you think that these promotions, though as un-ergopharm-like they may be, would only be good for customer interest?
 
I think it is highly unlikely that they have developed the same compound. It just seems like a 1 in a million sort of deal, but after havoc/epi/hem who knows, it could be. But ohhh man, I am praying it isnt the same. I would love to have another prohormone to stack with 3-ad! I am drooling! seriousely though, 2 weeks! man, my brains just exploded out the back of my head when I read that.

EDIT: hopefully this presses a sense of ergency over at AX. You never know, maybe a little pressure will help solidify an earlier release date.
 
haroldjg said:
I think it is highly unlikely that they have developed the same compound. It just seems like a 1 in a million sort of deal, but after havoc/epi/hem who knows, it could be. But ohhh man, I am praying it isnt the same. I would love to have another prohormone to stack with 3-ad! I am drooling! seriousely though, 2 weeks! man, my brains just exploded out the back of my head when I read that.

EDIT: hopefully this presses a sense of ergency over at AX. You never know, maybe a little pressure will help solidify an earlier release date.
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i have had a few times in my career where my competition and i have simultaneously developed things. nor-4-ad was developed simultaneously by derek cornelius and myself for example. he accused me of stealing the idea from him. it was a stupid accusation cuz at the time there was adione, nordione, and 4-ad. any friggin numbskull could have forseen the next logical progression in that series.

when it comes to natural options, the choices are very limited. this leads naturally to overlaps
 
Do supplement companies work in conjuction with other business units to create the compounds in which they sell?
 
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