epistane and hairline...
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dertynasty
$Money$
Epi definately made my hair and the hair of my friend fall out pretty fast. By the end of the 1st week i was waking up with about 12 hairs on my pillow. I have never lost hair to superdrol nor anything else except maybe a high dose of npp so i am usually not prone to shedding. Either way, if i hadnt shedded on this compound, i definately would have to say it was one of the best compounds ive used in a while. Great feeling while on it, very mild, no sides, ( except my hairloss). So give it a shot guys, and if you dont see any shedding, do it up and get huge 
LakeMountD
Doctor Science
Yeah genetics definitely plays into it. I have the beginnings of MPB and I noticed some shedding as well, although I do know a lot of people who took it and said it was very mild, so it will vary person to person.
DR.D
Well-known member
Epi definately made my hair and the hair of my friend fall out pretty fast. By the end of the 1st week i was waking up with about 12 hairs on my pillow. I have never lost hair to superdrol nor anything else except maybe a high dose of npp so i am usually not prone to shedding. Either way, if i hadnt shedded on this compound, i definately would have to say it was one of the best compounds ive used in a while. Great feeling while on it, very mild, no sides, ( except my hairloss). So give it a shot guys, and if you dont see any shedding, do it up and get huge
Derty! Where you been man? Sorry about the shedding. How was your skin, oily? Or was it a 'dry skin' shed? I wonder if a topical like Niz might help.
BigVrunga
Well-known member
Dr.D - does Epi do any conversion through 5AR? If its the epistane molecule itself that's causing the shedding, 2% topical Spiro 1-2x per day, along with Ketoconozole shampoo (Nizoral) to alleviate inflammation would be your first line of defence.
If some type of 5AR conversion is involved, Finasteride would help as well - as long as the compound doesnt need 5AR enzyme to convert into something less androgenic.
BV
If some type of 5AR conversion is involved, Finasteride would help as well - as long as the compound doesnt need 5AR enzyme to convert into something less androgenic.
BV
DR.D
Well-known member
No 5-AR involvement (adverse metabolism), so I agree topical Niz would be my first method of prevention.
! But not as bad as PP!
calidood
Member
Epi definately made my hair and the hair of my friend fall out pretty fast. By the end of the 1st week i was waking up with about 12 hairs on my pillow. I have never lost hair to superdrol nor anything else except maybe a high dose of npp so i am usually not prone to shedding. Either way, if i hadnt shedded on this compound, i definately would have to say it was one of the best compounds ive used in a while. Great feeling while on it, very mild, no sides, ( except my hairloss). So give it a shot guys, and if you dont see any shedding, do it up and get huge
Did that hair grow back after you were done with the cycle? Or was it gone for good?
dertynasty
$Money$
Around man, still droppin in to read here from time to time.
Ive had lots of q's I wanted to ask you but never got around to actually writing them out. Either way, its been a grip, but its good to see AM is still keepin it tyte and yeah epistane is the ****. Too bad my hair fell out, but it wasnt dry or anything just would fall out during random times like in the shower or something.
I think ima stay clean for a while, right now im on the anabolic diet so im seeing how that works out for me. Its pretty crazy.
calidood
Member
Epi definately made my hair and the hair of my friend fall out pretty fast. By the end of the 1st week i was waking up with about 12 hairs on my pillow. I have never lost hair to superdrol nor anything else except maybe a high dose of npp so i am usually not prone to shedding. Either way, if i hadnt shedded on this compound, i definately would have to say it was one of the best compounds ive used in a while. Great feeling while on it, very mild, no sides, ( except my hairloss). So give it a shot guys, and if you dont see any shedding, do it up and get huge
Did the hair grow back or was it gone for good?
charger71
Member
bump to that, does any of this hair grow back or is it gone for good?
DR.D
Well-known member
It grows back IF it hasn't been gone for too long (like years usually) or so I here.
BigVrunga
Well-known member
Genetic expression of MPB differs from person to person. There are many factors involved, and it's believed that DHT activity on the scalp's hair follicle receptors may be the primary culprit in hair loss. It definitely appears to be the case, as DHT inhibiting topicals and systemic treatments seem to have a positive effect for most.
If you're prone to MPB, and you flood your system with extrgenous androgens, chances are you WILL lose hair for this very reason. When those androgen levels are lowered, the hair should at least stop falling out if you're young enough. It seems that, as males age, the receptors build up increased sensitivity to androgenic alopecia (think about it - as guys get older their test levels decline and yet more hair falls out!). Regrowth will depend entirely on your genetics - if you have a lot of guys in your family that went bald early and you have the same hairline - the androgens may just kick off your MPB a few years early for you.
Your BEST bet is to prevent the hairloss altogether. Either a.)dont use hormones that can contribute to hair loss or b.)take the proper protective measures.
For a compound like Epistane, with no 5AR activity, this should be a topical general androgen blocker like 2% Spironolactone 2x/day along with Nizoral shampoo 1x ED. Hitting your scalp with the laser brush for 5-10minutes a day wouldnt hurt either, as it helps create optimal conditions for hair growth.
Do NOT use a compound like minoxidil unless you're fighting genetic MPB and plan to keep using it forever.
IMO, if you're worried about hairloss and you're already going bald start a serious hair loss prevention regimen asap. The sooner the better if you want to have any hopes of running hairloss free cycles and intend to keep the hair on your head as long as possible.
BV
FitModel
Active member
I know I've seen Nizoral Shampoo at like Target and the grocery store and stuff...where would I find spiro?
BigVrunga
Well-known member
You can find Spiro online - Invalid Link Removed or Invalid Link Removed.
Although generally Sprio has no side effects applied topically, you still need to be careful with it. Apply sparingly only to the affected areas of the scalp, and if you notice any negative sides like headaches, low test sides, etc discontinue use.
Everyone is different - Ive read of some people having issues with topical Spironolactone.
LakeMountD
Doctor Science
Yeah I was under the impression that it would only block DHT converting compounds. Then again I haven't looked too much into hair loss prevention either.
BigVrunga
Well-known member
If you are for some reason effected systemically by topical Spironolactone, then yes it could.
Keep in mind that most studies have shown no adverse systemic side effects from 2% topical Spiro. I myself use it 1x per day (<1ml applied sparingly with a dabber bottle) with no apparent adverse sides.
My cause for concern is that we had a forum member report some a drastic reduction in testosterone after using Minoxidil.com's 2% spiro solution, which is the same one I and many other use to combat hair loss. Its an anecdotal report as it was never confirmed that it was actually the spiro that was causing his issues - but still with such a potent anti-androgen you should always use caution.
Spironolactone is a general androgen blocker - it binds to the androgen receptor itself and thus blocks anything that could attach to it. DHT, test, etc.
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Its very potent and possibly carcinogenic and should be used with extreme caution.
Keep in mind that an average dose of Spironolactone when administered orally is 50mg/day. I typically apply <.25mg to the MPB effected areas of my scalp and even under the best transdermal absorption conditions that's ~.125mg absorbed into the bloodstream.
With that in mind you can see why carefully applied topical sprio has a low incidence of systemic sides - and also why it would be highly unlikely that it would have negative impact on any kind of anabolic hormone cycle.
BV
UNCnate
Board Sponsor
So the general consensus here is that Epistane doesnt cause hairloss by 5-AR, and that Propecia wouldnt prevent it.
Also, Ive been on Propecia for almost a year to help with MPB, with decent success. No regrowth but it seemed to have stopped the loss.
Are yall saying that 2% Nizoral will *should* prevent the hairloss associated with Epistane?
Hairloss is the only thing stopping me from using it to this point.
Also, Ive been on Propecia for almost a year to help with MPB, with decent success. No regrowth but it seemed to have stopped the loss.
Are yall saying that 2% Nizoral will *should* prevent the hairloss associated with Epistane?
Hairloss is the only thing stopping me from using it to this point.
BigVrunga
Well-known member
Ketoconazole has been found to bind to the androgen receptor when taken orally, so it may help when used as a EOD shampoo in that regard.
However, I think Nizoral's main contribution to hairloss prevention is that it clears the sebum from the scalp. This helps to unclog pores and provide an optimal environment for hair growth. This is also ideal on a cycle where you skin is producing more oils, etc.
It is suggested that a yet unknown method of action is responsible for Ketoconazole's apparent ability to stimulate hair growth as well.
I think its an important part of any hairloss prevention protocol, however keep in mind that if you're trying to use it to stave off hair loss from anabolics, Ketoconazole's half life invivo is 8 hours. You're using it topically every other day, and rinsing it off after 5 minutes.
I think it most certainly helps block androgens in the scalp, however if you are trying to prevent hair loss from a cycle IMO you really need to consider using a more potent anti-androgen like spiro or fluridil in combination with EOD Nizoral use.
BV
However, I think Nizoral's main contribution to hairloss prevention is that it clears the sebum from the scalp. This helps to unclog pores and provide an optimal environment for hair growth. This is also ideal on a cycle where you skin is producing more oils, etc.
It is suggested that a yet unknown method of action is responsible for Ketoconazole's apparent ability to stimulate hair growth as well.
I think its an important part of any hairloss prevention protocol, however keep in mind that if you're trying to use it to stave off hair loss from anabolics, Ketoconazole's half life invivo is 8 hours. You're using it topically every other day, and rinsing it off after 5 minutes.
I think it most certainly helps block androgens in the scalp, however if you are trying to prevent hair loss from a cycle IMO you really need to consider using a more potent anti-androgen like spiro or fluridil in combination with EOD Nizoral use.
BV
BigVrunga
Well-known member
If you really want to stimulate hair *growth*, you need to combine Finasteride with a product like the Laser Comb or Minoxidil. Propecia blocks DHT, which should help stop the hair from shedding but wont do much to force it into a growth phase. Of course this depends on age and genetics, etc.
BV
swole210
Registered User
Any local drug store such as CVS or even Walmart carry it.
sfearl1
Well-known member
i've always had fine hair and i've noticed a little thinning since i ran a couple s.d cycles. though its only minor thinning, i've been interested in trying this nioxin shampoo. would it inhibit any of my gains as i'm on cycle right now??
celc5
Well-known member
I'd find it hard to believe that this stuff is strong enough to have any negative affects on a cycle. But, I'd wait for a more informed opinion than mine as I don't know about the chemistry of these products.
Here's a few tidbits for what's on the bottle:
Cleanser (shampoo):
-cleanses, detoxifies, and volumizes
-botanicals, humectants (wtf are those?), and white tea extract (antioxidant)
-"cleanses away toxins, residue, and DHT
*I just feel a cleaner scalp with the cleanser and notice that my scalp is a bit itchy when I use other shampoos.
Scalp Therapy (conditioner):
-moisturizes and energizes
-botanicals, humectants
-"relieves scalp tightness and resotres moisture balance, while adding volume and strength to fine/thinning hair"
*In my experience, this is the more important of the 2 products. After showering, it feels like my scalp, which is severely dry usually, has normal moisture and sort of breathes better.
Actives (treatment):
-increases microcirculation
-not much else on the bottle
*I swear I have a lower libido after a few weeks on this stuff. Comes back in a few days after stopping.
There is also a nioxin gel that makes your hair look and feel thicker. But it smells like fish food flakes and I threw it away after using it just a handful of times.
I believe Nioxin has a new line out now for different stages of thinning hair. I am not familiar with those products as I bought about a year's worth of the old forumula on a closeout sale when the new stuff came out.
celc5
Well-known member
I totally forgot to mention this... A few years ago I tried an over the counter product called "Thicker Fuller Hair." I used the mouse, shampoo, and conditioner. I can't remember the brand name and haven't been able to find it at the stores any more. If I remember correctly, it worked just as good, if not better, than Nioxin at a cheaper price.
UNCnate
Board Sponsor
I just ordered 2 bottles of Epistane as well as 2 months worth of Fluridil.
Hopefully that'll keep any shedding that can occur from happening.
Ill be running a low dose of Fin as well. .25mg to .5, not sure yet.
If anyone would be interested in seeing how that handles the situation let me know.
Ill be starting soon.
Hopefully that'll keep any shedding that can occur from happening.
Ill be running a low dose of Fin as well. .25mg to .5, not sure yet.
If anyone would be interested in seeing how that handles the situation let me know.
Ill be starting soon.
FitModel
Active member
where did you get Fluridil. (that is OTC) i'm assuming
UNCnate
Board Sponsor
Ordered it off their website.
BigVrunga
Well-known member
Keep us posted - remember to follow the directions on the fluridil. H2O supposedly degrades the molecule rapidly so your hair and scalp must be dry before application.
Ketoconozole can reduce the sebum in your scalp, resulting in dryness and irritation. It's still recommended to use Nizoral EOD to fight MPB though. To combat any scalp irritation, be sure to follow the Nizoral with good conditioner and be sure to get in your EFA's.
BV
FitModel
Active member
so what is the difference between "Nizoral 2% Shampoo" and "Nizoral A-D Shampoo"
both offered at
Invalid Link Removed
are they the same thing? or which should I get, becuase they have the Nizoral A-D Shampoo at my local grocery store...and I think the ingridients are 1% Keto somethinggg
both offered at
Invalid Link Removed
are they the same thing? or which should I get, becuase they have the Nizoral A-D Shampoo at my local grocery store...and I think the ingridients are 1% Keto somethinggg
BigVrunga
Well-known member
Nizoral AD is the OTC version of Nizoral. It has 1% Ketoconozole vs 2% of the 'standard' Nizoral. Get the 2% if you want to stave off hair loss. Ive read that either is effective, but generally when people are talking about 'Nizoral' on hairloss forums they mean the 2%.
BV
BV
FitModel
Active member
okay cool thanks...
so best way to use this is EOD, leaving it on for 3-5 minutes, then rinse and condition?
kraftkid
Member
Thats how I've always used it. I've used Niz 2% EOD for over two years to try and stave of mpb that runs in my family. I lost little if any hair and have zero sides.
I ordered like 20 bottles at once because I had to get it from Canada, as only 1% was available OTC.
LakeMountD
Doctor Science
Guys am I missing something here? I went to CVS the other day to look at Nizoral and it said anti-dandruff? I thought someone said that it blocked DHT receptors or something?