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xmass with havoc?

soccer87

New member
i was wondering if stacking havoc with xmass would decrease your chance of getting gyno? i have both and was curious because i planned on just takin havoc, AP, and green magnitude. i bought the xmass orignally but held off on it because of some reporting gyno. just curious too everyones opinion.
 
havoc will reduce Gyno and if you take proper PCT SERM you should be fine.
 
i have novedex from gaspari(which i realize isnt nolva) and clomid. i figured this was plenty for the havoc which many where saying need hardly anything((if anything) for an anti-estrogen. u think that and clomid are enough for post cycle? i was wondering if xmass is worth running with this or if i should just do havoc stand alone. i think i may also wait to finsih the AP because they say gians could be decreased from mixing the two. any thoughts on all this?
 
u shud be good bro , Xmass tends to give gyno to some people, but with havoc im sure itl keep u dry, run liver protection just to be on the safe side. i duno what the deal is with AP so i couldnt help u out, but dude ur pumps shud be insane without it, personaly i never run NO on cycle.
 
what should i dose for xmass and havoc? i am thinkin havoc for 6 weeks. 20,30,30,30,40,40. anybody else on whether or not i should keep the anabolic pump on cycle? i am dropping the creatine while on cycle. i dont take an NO product.
 
soccer87 said:
what should i dose for xmass and havoc? i am thinkin havoc for 6 weeks. 20,30,30,30,40,40. anybody else on whether or not i should keep the anabolic pump on cycle? i am dropping the creatine while on cycle. i dont take an NO product.
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your havoc dosage looks fine. if you run the xmass, just use the recommended dosage and i would say run it at the beginning for 4 weeks alongside the havoc. The AP would def be a great addition for pct to help maintain gains. good luck bro
 
doodle said:
your havoc dosage looks fine. if you run the xmass, just use the recommended dosage and i would say run it at the beginning for 4 weeks alongside the havoc. The AP would def be a great addition for post cycle therapy to help maintain gains. good luck bro
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ditto
 
Did they ever figure out whether AP should be ran havoc yet? i know there has been this debate. i think i may keep using it through the cycle
 
soccer87 said:
i think the problem revolved more around it being used with anti estro's. anybody know about this
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I don't see why, looking at the mechanism of AP, anti-E's would influence anything.
 
well i think i am just going to run the havoc alone ( actually with 2 weeks of methoxy trn at 12-14mgs a day cuz it came with it). though i do have xmass, and superdrol the original formula. When i look at those 2 bottles i just wanna throw one or the other in there(especially the SD because of the gains) but when i did i cycle 2 years ago it started to give me gyno i think and i got really nervous while taking it. I read a lot of reports on people getting gyno and or worse delayed gyno after pct. Wonder if this is a worry while taking havoc with it. Any thoughts people?
 
Havok/Epistane acts as a SERM, not AI, therefore it is okay to use with Anabolic-Pump. If ER-a is not stimulated by Estrogens then GLUT4 is significantly decreased, that's the issue D.
 
Ziricote said:
Havok/Epistane acts as a SERM, not AI, therefore it is okay to use with Anabolic-Pump. If ER-a is not stimulated by Estrogens then GLUT4 is significantly decreased, that's the issue D.
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Could we get a fuller explanation? Are you saying AP is contraindicated when taking an AI?
 
yeahright said:
Could we get a fuller explanation? Are you saying AP is contraindicated when taking an AI?
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GLUT4 is regulated by Estrogen Receptor Alpha (ER-a/ER1), if it's not activated by Estrogens then GLUT4 is significantly reduced in striated muscle. Therefore without adequate Aromatase you can bet your bottom dollar that Estrogens will be significantly reduced to the point that GLUT4 could be negatively effected.

EDIT - I should add, that is why AI shouldn't be used with Anabolic-Pump. SERMs don't appear to have such issues.
 
soccer87 said:
well i think i am just going to run the havoc alone ( actually with 2 weeks of methoxy trn at 12-14mgs a day cuz it came with it). though i do have xmass, and superdrol the original formula. When i look at those 2 bottles i just wanna throw one or the other in there(especially the superdrol because of the gains) but when i did i cycle 2 years ago it started to give me gyno i think and i got really nervous while taking it. I read a lot of reports on people getting gyno and or worse delayed gyno after post cycle therapy. Wonder if this is a worry while taking havoc with it. Any thoughts people?
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i think havoc solo would be the best option this time around.

Havoc and superdrol together?
2 methyls, one that is relatively new with a limited history of lipid and liver profile bloodwork, the other well established a being harsh on lipids
both are known at this point to be strongly anabolic with good results when run solo or in tandem with nonmethylated alternatives such as injectables or safer oral alternatives

I see no logical reason to stack SD with havoc at this time
if you want a stack use the xmass, or zol, or a methoxy group steriod like trn or tst. still i think havoc solo the first time around is a solid choice.
 
I've taken a cycle of xmass a couple months ago at 120 mg a day and have so far have had no gyno. I am already thinking Havoc for my next cycle in April. Since I did not get gyno the first time around I know that doesn't make me immune to it but would it be smart for me to run Havoc and Xmass together? I want to run xmass to up the gains because Havoc isn't really a big bulking PH. I would run Havoc for 6 weeks something similar to what was already outlined earlier, with Xmass at most likely 80 mg for the first week.
 
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