I feel terrible without food, sick to my stomach, I've been able to do IF and eat 1 meal a day but even thay is hit or miss. It might be because I have serious junk food issues. I normally crave junk at night, I'm actually eating a cookie as I type
. One thing I noticed is that when I eat sugar all day, I'm not hungry and when dinner rolls around I'm actually looking forward to normal food make dinner meat and vegetables, maybe rice and then I'm not craving after dinner. It forces me in a deficit if I don't get a lot of liquid calories so fruit juice during the day helps a lot.
The hard part for me was 1. Mentally I'm eating the opposite of everything I know as correct so it drives me nuts
. 2. I get dehydrated, I didn't get the electrolytes completely figured out so I basically pound salt and potassium all day on those days now. I had a incident where I stared spasming and couldn't stand up. Not fun. Don't let that throw you off, I work manual labor and I was in the gym lifting and boxing, running 3 days a week, I did it to myself.
I don't completely understand what makes it work so on demand for me but I'm glad I can reap some quick benefits and be on my way.
It also seems to sort out my gut issues
When I was trying to get up to 230 a few years back, going from 3500 to 4000 cal for me was easy, but everything over 4000 was a nightmare so I mostly atey surplus in fast food. It was rough and I got fat
Yeah, the dehydration situation was a bit scary I am sure.
Oh yeah 4000 in clean food is just ridiculous. It was also higher than I needed to go. I had reached maximum allowable bodyfat level to get down as lean as I needed to be in my eyes at 3800, but my coach wanted to push on for another 6 weeks. Horrible idea that just had us chasing the rest of the time.
- Pre-workout: A fruit-heavy, low-protein meal → FGF21 rises.
- FGF21 increases insulin sensitivity, enhances nutrient partitioning, and raises energy expenditure.
- Muscles enter training in a state primed to pull in glucose and store less fat.
- Training: High-intensity lifting further boosts insulin sensitivity and transiently elevates FGF21.
- Post-workout: A moderately high, fast-digesting protein dose + carbs switches on mTOR/MPS for muscle repair.
- Because of the pre-workout FGF21 effect, muscle cells are more insulin-sensitive → they preferentially take up glucose and amino acids.
- This means better glycogen refill and stronger anabolic response per gram of protein.
In short: FGF21 before + carbs = metabolic priming; protein after = maximal anabolism. The combo makes each protein bolus more efficient, supporting recomposition with fewer total protein calories.
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This is pretty interesting, I know many of us were looking at this the way it was presented to us originally as a 2 parts of the day situation. IE The Sugar Fast, and the mixed macro meal. After a little more reading the mixed macro meal does not need to be all at once. Even at this shows a tiny bit of protein with your carbs is not going to suppress FGF21. This opens up things a little more and makes it align a little more with someone who wants to grow muscle. However, what is a low protein meal by these standards? Should we assume 9% of the total calories for that particular meal? That seems a logical assumption, unless one were to use a carb loading approach similar to the 80% carb study referenced earlier for these 2 meals. IE increase the caloric consumption greatly to allow for more protein these 2 meals. Then the studies 11% still allowed for a good FGF21 release.
Now, I am a little curious what one might experience with a mix of the protocols, and utilizing some of the information from the studies to try a more eat for what you are doing approach. It seems that FGF21 can rise quickly in the presence of high sugar, and low protein intake. While low protein intake on its own takes a while to do the trick. So if someone wanted to eat for what they are doing could use some of these things to hit a surplus while possibly not causing fat gain.
Here is what I am thinking. One could use the 80%c, 11%p, 9%f model at +75% calories 2-3 days a week on big lifting days to really crush performance, and stuff the muscles with glycogen. On a day like that 125g of protein will be plenty protein because you have so many carbs. It is just not going to be a big deal. Then on rest days / lower, or maintenance type days you eat a more balanced diet, getting in the amount of protein you typically would, getting in some starches and healthy fats too. Basically eating to supply the building blocks for repair on the rest days when you are actually repairing and growing. The body should have plenty of glycogen stored, so one could even eat lower carbs/calories without worrying about not having the fuel to grow, and the increase in protein, and protein frequency will be very beneficial to MPS those days. Now this is something I might consider taking for a spin once I am full steam in the gym again. I think I could enjoy the super high sugars 3 days a week, and enjoy a more well rounded meal plan in a moderate deficit the other days...
One other thing I noticed in the studies is about how fgf21 increases the browning of fat and part of the reason that humans don't respond as well as mice is they have more brown fat. If only focusing on the benefits of this diet and what the FGF21 can help with then one would also likely benefit even further from cold exposure. Cold plunges, just hanging out in the cold stuff like that increases your levels of brown fat, to help keep the body warm. Brown fat can burn a lot of calories in the effort to keep you warm. So if not super worried about growth, while also being interested in your body feeling better then things like cold exposure could possibly improve the reaction to the fgf21. Obviously if growth is the main concern cold exposure is not the way to go.
The more I look at this the more natural it seems, and also seems that this is probably based a little more on prehistoric feeding patterns, than complete fasting is. Not saying one is better than the other, just that one was a lot more likely the optimal feeding situation, and the other was when things were bad as in no fruit or vegetation to eat. We do know that eating fruits when found throughout the hunts was a thing. We also know there is some sort of adrenal drive from just the sugars, similar to pure fasting to provide energy for the hunt and foraging. So, I think it is most likely that this is the way our bodies ran when things were optimal. EI fruit and veggies around, they had to wait for the hunts to find meat, and then once fire was around most of the meat containing meals were in the evening when they were brought back from the hunts during the day and then cooked for the group. I do find it interesting that this and regular fasting seem to provide a lot of the same thing. Also it is very interesting that it takes weeks of fasting for fgf21 to increase, while it takes hours if just sugar is present. Almost as if it is saying hey this is the way it is actually designed to work. That is the Oh **** things are super bad response for fasting. Obviously the difference here now is that we are trying to take advantage of this, and can get access to sugars much easier. However, I can imagine some cavemen demolishing several fruits being starved and ready for that finally filling meal. I mean if it was all I was eating I could crush 4 big apples in a sitting no problem and that is a solid 200g of carbs right there, and a pretty filling choice but i could do that 3-4 times a day and still want a big real meal in the evening.
Now all of that being said the one thing about how this was originally proposed was one moderate protein feeding a day. I just don't think this is inline with how things went. If they had a lot of meat, they ate a lot of meat. No one was like hell yeah we got a wooly mammoth or whatever and said make sure we only get about 150g of protein guys... They ate as much as they could because they didn't know when they were getting more, and didn't really have a way to preserve the food. I am sure they were all pretty lean, so I honestly doubt that limiting the protein and fat feeding at night is required outside of avoiding a surplus.
I know I mentioned this in my thread but I think the biggest factor to my waistline shrinking so quickly on it was literally just emptying my stomach.
On the days I eat normal all day long I'm having stuff that fills you up and you have to digest it. On the sugar days I'm drinking coffee fruit juice and Gatorade, I'm eating fruit gummy bears and low protein sugar yogurt, like the stuff they sell at the grocery store for little kids lol.
Two bananas, two bags of gummy bears, two of those kids yogurts and 32 oz of orange juice is already 1600 calories but there's like no food. The juices liquid the yogurt is basically liquid and the gummy bears are made with glucose syrup which is basically instantly broken down and used I don't even think you have to digest it. So basically all day long my stomach's empty and not having to really digest much actual food. That seems to be what makes the most sense to me on why my waste immediately is like 1/2 of an inch smaller and I'm 5 to 7 lb lighter after 2 days of doing this. I think it's just a result of nothing being in my stomach
I can for sure see that as a big part of it, also hydration levels dropping, and probably some inflammation dropping as well considering this reverses some of your gut issues.
I have zero doubt in your ability to shine- even if it weren't the least bit up your alley, it could be obscure oil paintings of nude chimpanzees and you'd figure it out 
Sounds like an exciting venture, and I think you are capable enough that if the whole thing implodes later on you will still be able to go back to your current career. There isn’t a lot of absolute risk; even if you had to take a pay cut getting back into your current career field you aren’t going hungry worst case scenario. Plus working with people you respect is worth so much in your satisfaction. My team is small and we are all true friends. I have been hanging out with my boss for years now outside of work, him inviting me to his house & dinner with his family.
