YOUR Pump/Pre Stack

[3ChainedAminos]

Interested in everyone’s pump/preworkout mixes or stacks. The pump category is something I have a guilty pleasure for lol. Love to hear options, plus someone always has something I’ve never heard or tried. So all responses are welcomed!

 

[Joshlm69]

CEL Superswole + SNS Endoflo for pump

 

[Joshlm69]

Also 1 cap of CEL Alpha One. Am yet to go to 2 caps, don’t know how much difference it makes!

 

[3ChainedAminos]

CEL Superswole + SNS Endoflo for pump

Superswole is my next pump product purchase, pretty excited about it. Have you played with super Swole’s dosing?

 

[Joshlm69]

Superswole is my next pump product purchase, pretty excited about it. Have you played with super Swole’s dosing?

I always stick with 4 caps pre. I would like to go higher but here in the UK it’s a very expensive supplement so haven’t played around

 

[3ChainedAminos]

I always stick with 4 caps pre. I would like to go higher but here in the UK it’s a very expensive supplement so haven’t played around

Completely understandable

 

[baldwanus]

1 cap Alpha One + 2 caps Uro-B ~an hour pre, then a scoop of Black Magic Supps EctoPlasm VooDoo ~half hour before I head out.

EDIT: EP VD label for those who don't know what it is haha

 

[Joshlm69]

1 cap Alpha One + 2 caps Uro-B ~an hour pre, then a scoop of Black Magic Supps EctoPlasm VooDoo ~half hour before I head out.

EDIT: EP VD label for those who don't know what it is haha

View attachment 249440

I'm also taking the Uro-B. Great for strength PRs and very cheap

 

[Halfnattyman44]

I’m always trying different things but a preworkout powder (currently C4 ultimate), 1 cap EndoFlo, 3 caps Vasoforce stim free (crazy good deal on these at SNS).

I’ll sometimes throw in Alpha One, extra Agmatine, or other goodies.

 

[Shadowblaze]

Interested in everyone’s pump/preworkout mixes or stacks. The pump category is something I have a guilty pleasure for lol. Love to hear options, plus someone always has something I’ve never heard or tried. So all responses are welcomed!

Agmatine, baking soda, Himalayan pink salt and a banana is good enough for me haha

 

[3ChainedAminos]

Agmatine, baking soda, Himalayan pink salt and a banana is good enough for me haha

Ok the baking soda, I tried it waayyy back when, for lactic acid buildup and what not, but truly only did it for like a week to be honest, I was young and didn’t really know what I was doing (still don’t). With how cheap it is I may need to revisit that, what do you notice on it?

 

[Shadowblaze]

Ok the baking soda, I tried it waayyy back when, for lactic acid buildup and what not, but truly only did it for like a week to be honest, I was young and didn’t really know what I was doing (still don’t). With how cheap it is I may need to revisit that, what do you notice on it?

Honestly its better than any pre workout I have ever tried, so easy and accessible and super cheap. It greatly increases endurance, strength and pumps far beyond any other preworkout I have ever tried. You need to take quite a lot though, and the taste is bad.

 

[3ChainedAminos]

Honestly its better than any pre workout I have ever tried, so easy and accessible and super cheap. It greatly increases endurance, strength and pumps far beyond any other preworkout I have ever tried. You need to take quite a lot though, and the taste is bad.

Don’t mind the taste of anything if it means pumps lol, how much do you take?

 

[Shadowblaze]

Don’t mind the taste of anything if it means pumps lol, how much do you take?

0.3 grams per kg of bodyweight 2 hours before your workout

 

[LeanEngineer]

Agmatine, baking soda, Himalayan pink salt and a banana is good enough for me haha

Cheapest best pump stack

 

[BigGame84]

This is just my current pre-pump stack. This doesn't include all of my staples. Taking all of this 30-45 mins preworkout:

1 capfull - EvoGen EVP AQ (liquid Glycerol)
10mg - Cialis
2 caps - CEL Alpha One
2 caps - SNS Endoflo XT
4 caps - CEL SuperSwole
4 caps - Purus Labs Noxygen liquigels
3 caps - CEL Epi-Plex
4 caps - SNS Amentoflavone
1 cap - Black Lion Han Swolo

 

[3ChainedAminos]

This is just my current pre-pump stack. This doesn't include all of my staples. Taking all of this 30-45 mins preworkout:

1 capfull - EvoGen EVP AQ (liquid Glycerol)
10mg - Cialis
2 caps - CEL Alpha One
2 caps - SNS Endoflo XT
4 caps - CEL SuperSwole
4 caps - Purus Labs Noxygen liquigels
3 caps - CEL Epi-Plex
4 caps - SNS Amentoflavone
1 cap - Black Lion Han Swolo

All that WITH cialis I feel like would make an absolutely skin tearing pump

 

[Smont]

All that WITH cialis I feel like would make an absolutely skin tearing pump

I'm sure there's other items on that list that give bigger muscle pumps than Cialis does, lately it stuffs me up soon much I've ditched it and I'm not noticing a terrible reduction in my pumps. Cailis definitely works for pumps but it's nothing crazy. Also baking soda lowering lactic acid will/should hinder a pump. From my own experience and I guess this is a little bro science but it would make sense, things that are good for endurance typically are not good for a pump and things that are good for a pump are typically not good for endurance. When I'm boxing if my muscles start getting pumped up, I'm shot and my endurance is going to zero because I can't move. Lactic acid pulls water into the muscle, The two mechanisms of action to get a pump and to get more endurance are kind of counterproductive to each other. Anyone who's ever had lower back pumps or shin pumps knows how crippling that can be. That's just a pump in a muscle

 

[big_jewels]

Current experiment pump stack - 1 Cap SNS Amentoflavone, 1 cap Cel Alpha-One, 5 grams of L-Arginine, sweet spot 20 grams of Karbolyn, 1 table spoon (10 grams) of liquid glycerol. Pretty gnarly !

 

[botk1161]

Current experiment pump stack - 1 Cap SNS Amentoflavone, 1 cap Cel Alpha-One, 5 grams of L-Arginine, sweet spot 20 grams of Karbolyn, 1 table spoon (10 grams) of liquid glycerol. Pretty gnarly !

What brand of liquid glycerol do you use and is it better than powder (I have never used liquid)?

 

[Shadowblaze]

What brand of liquid glycerol do you use and is it better than powder (I have never used liquid)?

Liquid glycerol products are all basically the same. Evogen, gorilla mind, xtremis cartel all have good ones. Powdered glycerol extracts are usually much lower dosed, roughly 2 grams, and are usually 60% activated. Liquid glycerol extracts are usually 20+ grams and 99% activated.

 

[Smont]

Liquid glycerol products are all basically the same. Evogen, gorilla mind, xtremis cartel all have good ones. Powdered glycerol extracts are usually much lower dosed, roughly 2 grams, and are 60% activated. Liquid glycerol extracts are usually 20+ grams and 99% activated.

Is there a difference between glycerol and vegetable glycerin? I know one is only from plants and the other one can be from anything but in its effects I'm wondering if it's different

 

[Shadowblaze]

Is there a difference between glycerol and vegetable glycerin? I know one is only from plants and the other one can be from anything but in its effects I'm wondering if it's different

Nope its the same thing. Vegetable glycerin is also much cheaper so you might as well go with that. Both will hydrate you equally and vegetable glycerin is also often 99% activated. The liquid glycerol products like the ones from evogen and other brands do often have some betaine and other vadodilators in them that vegetable glycerol doesn't have, but if your stacking glycerol with another preworkout might as well go with vegetable glycerin, it is much cheaper.

 

[N2ofusion]

I’ve been paring it down to just S7 and Agmatine lately. I’ve found similar total results without skin-splitting pumps.

That said, when I occasionally add Amentoflavone XT or Citrapeak I notice a pretty good total pump and all day fullness.

 

[LeanEngineer]

This is just my current pre-pump stack. This doesn't include all of my staples. Taking all of this 30-45 mins preworkout:

1 capfull - EvoGen EVP AQ (liquid Glycerol)
10mg - Cialis
2 caps - CEL Alpha One
2 caps - SNS Endoflo XT
4 caps - CEL SuperSwole
4 caps - Purus Labs Noxygen liquigels
3 caps - CEL Epi-Plex
4 caps - SNS Amentoflavone
1 cap - Black Lion Han Swolo

That's a recipe for an awesome pump for sure!

 

[3ChainedAminos]

I’ve been paring it down to just S7 and Agmatine lately. I’ve found similar total results without skin-splitting pumps.

That said, when I occasionally add Amentoflavone XT or Citrapeak I notice a pretty good total pump and all day fullness.

Stand alone S7 and citrapeak? If so what do you use.

 

[Slims]

Is there anything like/similar to the old PES High Volume or Prolific formulas around? They were great before PES reformulated them.

 

[3ChainedAminos]

Is there anything like/similar to the old PES High Volume or Prolific formulas around? They were great before PES reformulated them.

I found a tub of old High volume from about like 8 years ago in my old closet today lol, the powder is NOT usable

 

[3ChainedAminos]

Is there anything like/similar to the old PES High Volume or Prolific formulas around? They were great before PES reformulated them.

Was this the OG formula? Expiration date was 5/19

 

[AwakeningAlpha]

This is just my current pre-pump stack. This doesn't include all of my staples. Taking all of this 30-45 mins preworkout:

1 capfull - EvoGen EVP AQ (liquid Glycerol)
10mg - Cialis
2 caps - CEL Alpha One
2 caps - SNS Endoflo XT
4 caps - CEL SuperSwole
4 caps - Purus Labs Noxygen liquigels
3 caps - CEL Epi-Plex
4 caps - SNS Amentoflavone
1 cap - Black Lion Han Swolo

This^
Plus salt, and BioPump'd and Glycerol

 

[big_jewels]

What brand of liquid glycerol do you use and is it better than powder (I have never used liquid)?

The generic Bodytech brand from Super Supplements aka the vitamin shoppe, when I was across the border as it was on clearance, really any brand you can find will work. I've found liquid to work better for my body, I feel that my muscles are fuller and my whole body feels more hydrated, skin even looks a little more plump. The powder works but not to the same extent for me.

 

[Slims]

View attachment 249476View attachment 249477

Was this the OG formula? Expiration date was 5/19

That was it yeah!

 

[3ChainedAminos]

That was it yeah!

lol still have most the tub in there, also have an unopened ultimate orange with DMAA lol, the powder sounds loose too

 

[GQdaLEGEND]

endofloXT + cel alpha1
surprisingly is great .. i knew about endo .. but took me a while to notice the pump benefits from alpha1 so i make sure to dose 30mins before

 

[KlausCoin]

daily use: XPG alpha gel, XPG suppress C ,

1 month into my epiandro run : 1 cap MA epiandro in the AM

staying hydrated throughout the day with lots of water and sprinkling iin electrolytes


prework out: 1 scoop gorilla mode nitric. 1 cap MuscleAddiction epiandro

occasionally will add in 5mg tadalafil for funsies


pre-workout/Intra-workout: 1 scoop vitalyte electrolytes

 

[3ChainedAminos]

endofloXT + cel alpha1
surprisingly is great .. i knew about endo .. but took me a while to notice the pump benefits from alpha1 so i make sure to dose 30mins before

Alpha 1 is definitely a top recommendation, I have 2 hesitations because I am the skeptical type. 1. Cel is one of the only brand with it, so why hasn’t it gained traction 2. I have read that cedar oil is toxic. With that being said with how many people swear by it, it has to work to some extent. Which this might probably be a convo for an entire different thread. With that being said I do realize I’m a p*ssy in the sense that when I see stuff like that I get wigged out. I also never take brand new ingredients, I like to wait a few years to see how people like it/reactions. Shoot I’m running stand alone epicatechin right now for the first time because I saw people on Reddit say it gave them joint pain. Which I’ve started and have had zero joint issues.

 

[sns8778]

Alpha 1 is definitely a top recommendation, I have 2 hesitations because I am the skeptical type. 1. Cel is one of the only brand with it, so why hasn’t it gained traction 2. I have read that cedar oil is toxic. With that being said with how many people swear by it, it has to work to some extent. Which this might probably be a convo for an entire different thread. With that being said I do realize I’m a p*ssy in the sense that when I see stuff like that I get wigged out. I also never take brand new ingredients, I like to wait a few years to see how people like it/reactions. Shoot I’m running stand alone epicatechin right now for the first time because I saw people on Reddit say it gave them joint pain. Which I’ve started and have had zero joint issues.

You really seem to like doing the veiled throwing shade at our products and its getting old.

You seem to have a real issue with posting misinformation, and at first I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt that it was unintentional, but it continues to happen.

You want to take something? Cool.
You don't want to take something? Cool.
You have questions? Cool.

There's nothing wrong with being skeptical - but there is something wrong with spreading misinformation.

Opinions are opinions - facts are facts.

Check your facts before you continue to throw out misinformation - this has happened multiple times now.

In reply to your comment:
1. Cel is one of the only brand with it, so why hasn’t it gained traction

You said that it is a top recommendation but then turn around and say why hasn't it gained traction?
We don't have the advertising budget of some of the marketing brands - yet its a top seller on several sports nutrition websites. It's sold out multiple times, and getting ready to be sold out again. So to say it hasn't gained traction is a bit of a contradiction don't you think?

If you mean why don't other brands offer it?
Probably because there wasn't enough interest or demand for it to be worth it to them to spend many thousands of dollars that we did having a 95%+ standardization made.

Why would they? Most brands, especially big marketing brands keep it simple. And why wouldn't they? It's much easier from their perspective to go with readily available ingredients that they don't have to worry about having custom standardized and/or running out of - when the average customer buys based off the marketing. The things that are important to most big brands are low product cost and ingredient availability - and 95%+ a-Cedrene is neither cheap nor readily available.

You act like its just a random raw material laying around that anyone can use. No, the 70% was the standard grade and that wasn't acceptable and I stated numerous times in the past that we would never offer a 70%, even when other brands were.

We have been the first to market with many ingredients - why?
Because that's one of the things that we are known for and also because of my work on the ingredient side, I know of a lot of things that are coming in the coming months or years and am able to plan ahead of time. And also because in certain cases, if I feel that something is worth it, we will invest in having the correct types/standardizations made.

Later today, you'll see another example of us being the first to launch a branded ingredient by a major branded ingredient company.

-------------------------------------------------

In reply to your comment:
2. I have read that cedar oil is toxic.

Alpha One contains 95%+ a-Cedrene.
a-Cedrene can be derived from cedarwood oil, but standardizations matter for a reason.

There's a whole detailed post in the Alpha One thread that breaks down the math on that. (post #2)

The irony of your statement in you acting like you're somehow throwing shade at Alpha One is that I was one of the first people that addressed the issue of the concerns of lower percentage a-Cedrene when the 70% versions first came out - me and xtyler. Which is why instead of doing a 70% like some other companies, I stated for years that the only way we would ever offer one is if we could offer a 95%+ version.

In the Alpha One thread, xtyler, who was one of the original people that had discussed in detail a-Cedrene's potential, had posted in the thread about how glad he was that we spent the time and money to have it done correctly.

Link: https://anabolicminds.com/community...-recomposition-agent-incredible-pumps.338248/

 

[rodefeeh]

Is there anything like/similar to the old PES High Volume or Prolific formulas around? They were great before PES reformulated them.

BuildFastFormula VasoBlitz is very similar to this. I went through a tub of it a few years back. My endurance on it was through the roof. Pumps were above average.

I'm going through a tub of Gorilla Mode Nitric currently. The pumps are pretty knarly.

 

[3ChainedAminos]

You really seem to like doing the veiled throwing shade at our products and its getting old.

You seem to have a real issue with posting misinformation, and at first I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt that it was unintentional, but it continues to happen.

You want to take something? Cool.
You don't want to take something? Cool.
You have questions? Cool.

There's nothing wrong with being skeptical - but there is something wrong with spreading misinformation.

Opinions are opinions - facts are facts.

Check your facts before you continue to throw out misinformation - this has happened multiple times now.

In reply to your comment:
1. Cel is one of the only brand with it, so why hasn’t it gained traction

You said that it is a top recommendation but then turn around and say why hasn't it gained traction?
We don't have the advertising budget of some of the marketing brands - yet its a top seller on several sports nutrition websites. It's sold out multiple times, and getting ready to be sold out again. So to say it hasn't gained traction is a bit of a contradiction don't you think?

If you mean why don't other brands offer it?
Probably because there wasn't enough interest or demand for it to be worth it to them to spend many thousands of dollars that we did having a 95%+ standardization made.

Why would they? Most brands, especially big marketing brands keep it simple. And why wouldn't they? It's much easier from their perspective to go with readily available ingredients that they don't have to worry about having custom standardized and/or running out of - when the average customer buys based off the marketing. The things that are important to most big brands are low product cost and ingredient availability - and 95%+ a-Cedrene is neither cheap nor readily available.

You act like its just a random raw material laying around that anyone can use. No, the 70% was the standard grade and that wasn't acceptable and I stated numerous times in the past that we would never offer a 70%, even when other brands were.

We have been the first to market with many ingredients - why?
Because that's one of the things that we are known for and also because of my work on the ingredient side, I know of a lot of things that are coming in the coming months or years and am able to plan ahead of time. And also because in certain cases, if I feel that something is worth it, we will invest in having the correct types/standardizations made.

Later today, you'll see another example of us being the first to launch a branded ingredient by a major branded ingredient company.

-------------------------------------------------

In reply to your comment:
2. I have read that cedar oil is toxic.

Alpha One contains 95%+ a-Cedrene.
a-Cedrene can be derived from cedarwood oil, but standardizations matter for a reason.

There's a whole detailed post in the Alpha One thread that breaks down the math on that. (post #2)

The irony of your statement in you acting like you're somehow throwing shade at Alpha One is that I was one of the first people that addressed the issue of the concerns of lower percentage a-Cedrene when the 70% versions first came out - me and xtyler. Which is why instead of doing a 70% like some other companies, I stated for years that the only way we would ever offer one is if we could offer a 95%+ version.

In the Alpha One thread, xtyler, who was one of the original people that had discussed in detail a-Cedrene's potential, had posted in the thread about how glad he was that spent the time and money to have it done correctly.

Link: https://anabolicminds.com/community...-recomposition-agent-incredible-pumps.338248/

I’m just replying to the guy with an honest answer with my honest thoughts. I literally love SNS/CEL products. For the misinformation stuff, I never said anything I stated was fact, I’m telling the guy how I feel about it, and that’s how I literally feel about it. So Steve this is not some covert spec op to bring SNS down. You reply so strongly like I’m a criminal for being honest with the guy. Steve I told you how honest I am lol. Absolute open book right here with ZERO bad intentions. PS on a lighter note, I truly think the new CEL bottle image/look is the best a bottle has ever looked lol.

 

[sns8778]

I’m just replying to the guy with an honest answer with my honest thoughts. I literally love SNS/CEL products. For the misinformation stuff, I never said anything I stated was fact, I’m telling the guy how I feel about it, and that’s how I literally feel about it. So Steve this is not some covert spec op to bring SNS down. You reply so strongly like I’m a criminal for being honest with the guy. Steve I told you how honest I am lol. Absolute open book right here with ZERO bad intentions. PS on a lighter note, I truly think the new CEL bottle image/look is the best a bottle has ever looked lol.

No, I replied strongly because you've done it multiple times on things related to our products.

There's nothing wrong with skepticism, and honest is a good thing - but sometimes a person may think they're being honest but still post misinformation because they didn't take the time to fact check it.

Examples:

• You saying that DL-185 was owned by Muscletech and after Resolve had explained that it wasn't, you'd still tried to argue that it was or that they had something to do with it, even after I explained the way temporary exclusivity works in this industry.
• You saying that N-methyl-D-aspartic acid was the same as D-Aspartic Acid and when someone explained it to you, you tried to argue that it was safer just the dosage was lower - when it has been shown to be linked to neurotoxicity. (which has nothing to do with me, but could be serious if someone had read it as a fact)
• You making the statement about Cedarwood Oil in your post - like you were comparing it to Cedarwood oil and the lower percentage forms - when the whole premise behind Alpha One is that it is not a lower percentage form, and if you'd taken the time to look at the Alpha one thread, you'd see that it was addressed in great detail in the very second post. Not only that, but that xtyler, who has nothing at all to do with me, but used to be associated with a competing company and is a brilliant person and one of the first that talked about a-Cedrene on here, had posted an addressed the % issues and how happy he was that we had spent the time and money to have a high % one made.
• You saying it 'hadn't caught on' - like you were saying that because a lot of companies don't offer it, then it must not be any good. Yet in other posts, you're all the time promoting other companies that offer certain ingredients or %'s that aren't common. (which also shows that you are aware that %'s matter, which goes back to your comment about Cedarwood Oil and acting like the a-Cedrene in Alpha One is cedarwood oil).

You're entitled to feel about it however you want to, and if that's the true case, then I provided you a link to where you can find the answers on it.

If you don't want to use something - cool, don't use it.

But you compared something that took over a year and thousands of dollars to develop and compared it to cedarwood oil - that the entire reason for developing the higher % one was bc the lower percentage ones did have cedarwood oil - and you wonder why that might confuse or mislead other people reading? That's my point.

On your lighter note, thanks, we were considering using that style for future CEL products, and MPC-185 is kind of the test one to see if people like that look and style.

 

[3ChainedAminos]

now I feel defensive because you are grossly taking things out of context and you are trying to make me look like some covert supplement rep like those other guys you talked about.
1. Google did say dileucine was made from “the researchers at muscletech” I posted exactly what Google said, I also saw muscletech was the only company with it, so it seemed like it was actually made by muscletech, and after that I stated Google shouldn’t be the only thing relied on
2. what I said about DAA, I was talking about dose “advancements” and about making the dose smaller, there was also joking in there and I believe I stated that BUT yes I was wrong, 2 completely different ingredients so what I was saying didn’t even pertain.
3. This I won’t defend because you are simply taking something I said and inflating it into something bigger than it is, but I understand it’s probably frustrating seeing some rando talk about a supplement you made. I wasn’t speaking bad about it, simply spoke about what I read, which yes, I have seen what you wrote about it but there’s obviously credibility issues only getting info from who’s selling (by no means am I saying you aren’t a credible source just in general)

4. What I meant by that is, why isn’t every other brand using it, typically if something is really a game changer, everyone starts selling it.

I truly think you may think I’m some secret rep from another company because my profile is new, I swear to you, I am not. I also think you may be a little too critical of people’s posts, but again, from your perspective it’s frustrating to see people talk ignorance about your products. So I am sorry for that.

 

[3ChainedAminos]

Also in the heat of things missed the last part you said. PLEASE run that logo style on everything lol

 

[sns8778]

now I feel defensive because you are grossly taking things out of context and you are trying to make me look like some covert supplement rep like those other guys you talked about.
1. Google did say dileucine was made from “the researchers at muscletech” I posted exactly what Google said, I also saw muscletech was the only company with it, so it seemed like it was actually made by muscletech, and after that I stated Google shouldn’t be the only thing relied on
2. what I said about DAA, I was talking about dose “advancements” and about making the dose smaller, there was also joking in there and I believe I stated that BUT yes I was wrong, 2 completely different ingredients so what I was saying didn’t even pertain.
3. This I won’t defend because you are simply taking something I said and inflating it into something bigger than it is, but I understand it’s probably frustrating seeing some rando talk about a supplement you made. I wasn’t speaking bad about it, simply spoke about what I read, which yes, I have seen what you wrote about it but there’s obviously credibility issues only getting info from who’s selling (by no means am I saying you aren’t a credible source just in general)

4. What I meant by that is, why isn’t every other brand using it, typically if something is really a game changer, everyone starts selling it.

I truly think you may think I’m some secret rep from another company because my profile is new, I swear to you, I am not. I also think you may be a little too critical of people’s posts, but again, from your perspective it’s frustrating to see people talk ignorance about your products. So I am sorry for that.

Nothing to get defensive about. I'm not attacking you - I'm posting factual replies to things that you said.
And that's my point, had you not said things that weren't true, then we wouldn't be discussing it.

I don't think you're a rep for another company. If I thought that, I wouldn't have taken so much time to try to help you, which I did originally because I thought you were someone that really liked to learn.

• I understand that google may have shown you something about DL-185, and you disagreed with someone else that said that Muscletech didn't own it and I nicely explained to you that they didn't, who did own it, etc. I even tagged you in a post later in that thread when I was explaining more information and was complimentary towards you and said that I was tagging you bc you seemed like you really wanted to learn. I chalked the DL-185 thing up to coincidence and you reading something untrue on google.
• I understand that you were mistaken in the NMDA thread - but Resolve explained to you that they were different and you continued to try to say that NMDA was safer bc it was a less dose and concentrated and that you have always thought dosage size decreases were beneficial for stomach and liver - which isn't true bc some methylated ingredients are some of the most liver toxic ingredients there are. I nicely explained to you that they were different ingredients, not comparable, and that dosage assumption wasn't correct and used methyl ph's as an example. Nothing negative, figured you made an assumption or read some misinformation, no worries.
• Then you started posting in SNS product discussion threads mentioning % extracts used by other companies - to which I didn't report you like most companies would, I politely explained to you that its against the rules. Once again, I figured you're just newer here and didn't know the rules.

That leads to your comments on Alpha One and a-Cedrene:
You obviously understand the difference in ingredient percentages because you've posted about them, going as far as to post in an SNS discussion thread about the % extracts used by other companies. So I can't make the assumption that you may just not know the importance of %'s because you've shown that you do.

So, knowing that percentages matter - you made the comment that lead to all of this where you compared a 95% a-cedrene to cedarwood oil - and you don't see why that's an issue?

To your comment about how its obvious credibility issues since its from whose selling it:

• We started selling it in September of 2024.
• The ergo-log article on the a-Cedrene study was in 2018 and I've had people asking us to make one since that came out.
• So, I was saying it for 6 years before we ever sold one.
• When the first company came out with a 70% a few years back, we were getting asked to make one and I stated then as politely as I could that I would never sell a 70% version and that the only way we would offer it would be if we could offer a 95%+ of it.
• My statements then led to a lot of people asking us to please try to offer one - you can search that going back for years, so stop acting like we came out with something and then tried to promote it.

Most companies would have either just put out a cheap 70% version when first asked to or not done it at all.

In this case, I cared enough and listened to what people asked for enough to put thousands of dollars and a ton of time into having a higher % form developed.

As to your credible source comment:
I've been one of the main sources that for years declined to offer a lower % concentration and lost a lot of money by doing so, and then after so many people asking, spent the money to have a higher concentration made.

I mentioned this, but you may not know who he is - is that xtyler was a member that posted here and other forums for over a decade and was involved with a competing company, and he was the one that originally posted the a-Cedrene study and information here. When a company came out with a 70%, he was also one of the most outspoken people against that because of the cedarwood oil aspect. He's one of the most scientific and respected members that we've ever had here and the only time that he has posted here in years was when he posted in the Alpha One thread how happy he was that we had put the time and money into doing it correctly.

 

[sns8778]

4. What I meant by that is, why isn’t every other brand using it, typically if something is really a game changer, everyone starts selling it.

I think I've addressed this already, and it was addressed in the Alpha one introduction thread - there was quite a bit of money spent to develop a 95%+ a-Cedrene and then quite a bit more money and time on stability testing and to get it stable in the softgels.

You may see products in the future that contain the ingredient - and if the brands doing it don't put the time and money into proper stability testing and just throw it in a regular softgel, you're going to see them have a mess on their hands.

It's an expensive ingredient to make, an expensive ingredient to test for, softgels have very high MOQ's and if they're made wrong with this ingredient, you'll have a mess.

^^^ none of that is very appealing to larger marketing based brands.

To your comment about if something is a game changer, everyone starts selling it - I understand that you may think that, but that really isn't true in this industry, especially when it comes to softgels.

Arachidonic Acid is a great example:
Many people absolutely love ARA and the liquid form is a 40% concentration whereas the powder form that can be used in regular capsules is a 10%. For over a decade, the only companies that offered a softgel version with the 40% have been us and MN - other brands have went with the 10% form in capsules because its less expensive, lower MOQ's, etc.

But ultimately, because muscle building supplements in general are not the mass market appeal products that many big brands offer - you see very few actual daily use muscle building ingredients on the market in general - and the ones that you do see by large brands, their usual #1 priority is consistent supply chain and low cost for the ability for a high markup so that they can market the products.

 

[sns8778]

Also in the heat of things missed the last part you said. PLEASE run that logo style on everything lol

You mean label style? You said logo, but I think you meant label?

We are considering using it for future CEL products.

The ones coming out in the next few weeks will be the normal label styles.

But there is a chance that some of the existing ones will change over to it if people like it enough, but mainly thinking of it for future versions.

 

[kid amnesiac]

You mean label style? You said logo, but I think you meant label?

We are considering using it for future CEL products.

The ones coming out in the next few weeks will be the normal label styles.

But there is a chance that some of the existing ones will change over to it if people like it enough, but mainly thinking of it for future versions.

New labels are great!

 

[3ChainedAminos]

Nothing to get defensive about. I'm not attacking you - I'm posting factual replies to things that you said.
And that's my point, had you not said things that weren't true, then we wouldn't be discussing it.

I don't think you're a rep for another company. If I thought that, I wouldn't have taken so much time to try to help you, which I did originally because I thought you were someone that really liked to learn.

• I understand that google may have shown you something about DL-185, and you disagreed with someone else that said that Muscletech didn't own it and I nicely explained to you that they didn't, who did own it, etc. I even tagged you in a post later in that thread when I was explaining more information and was complimentary towards you and said that I was tagging you bc you seemed like you really wanted to learn. I chalked the DL-185 thing up to coincidence and you reading something untrue on google.
• I understand that you were mistaken in the NMDA thread - but Resolve explained to you that they were different and you continued to try to say that NMDA was safer bc it was a less dose and concentrated and that you have always thought dosage size decreases were beneficial for stomach and liver - which isn't true bc some methylated ingredients are some of the most liver toxic ingredients there are. I nicely explained to you that they were different ingredients, not comparable, and that dosage assumption wasn't correct and used methyl ph's as an example. Nothing negative, figured you made an assumption or read some misinformation, no worries.
• Then you started posting in SNS product discussion threads mentioning % extracts used by other companies - to which I didn't report you like most companies would, I politely explained to you that its against the rules. Once again, I figured you're just newer here and didn't know the rules.

That leads to your comments on Alpha One and a-Cedrene:
You obviously understand the difference in ingredient percentages because you've posted about them, going as far as to post in an SNS discussion thread about the % extracts used by other companies. So I can't make the assumption that you may just not know the importance of %'s because you've shown that you do.

So, knowing that percentages matter - you made the comment that lead to all of this where you compared a 95% a-cedrene to cedarwood oil - and you don't see why that's an issue?

To your comment about how its obvious credibility issues since its from whose selling it:

• We started selling it in September of 2024.
• The ergo-log article on the a-Cedrene study was in 2018 and I've had people asking us to make one since that came out.
• So, I was saying it for 6 years before we ever sold one.
• When the first company came out with a 70% a few years back, we were getting asked to make one and I stated then as politely as I could that I would never sell a 70% version and that the only way we would offer it would be if we could offer a 95%+ of it.
• My statements then led to a lot of people asking us to please try to offer one - you can search that going back for years, so stop acting like we came out with something and then tried to promote it.

Most companies would have either just put out a cheap 70% version when first asked to or not done it at all.

In this case, I cared enough and listened to what people asked for enough to put thousands of dollars and a ton of time into having a higher % form developed.

As to your credible source comment:
I've been one of the main sources that for years declined to offer a lower % concentration and lost a lot of money by doing so, and then after so many people asking, spent the money to have a higher concentration made.

I mentioned this, but you may not know who he is - is that xtyler was a member that posted here and other forums for over a decade and was involved with a competing company, and he was the one that originally posted the a-Cedrene study and information here. When a company came out with a 70%, he was also one of the most outspoken people against that because of the cedarwood oil aspect. He's one of the most scientific and respected members that we've ever had here and the only time that he has posted here in years was when he posted in the Alpha One thread how happy he was that we had put the time and money into doing it

I had to go back and make sure but you are still taking things out of context to make me look bad and like I argue.

1. I never disagreed or argued with the person who told me muscletech didn’t own it, they told me, I posted what googled said and then all I said was something still didn’t seem right

2. I had to go back and look at that one too about DAA but I never said the NDMA was safer I was speaking about if there’s 2 same ingredients but 1 is a smaller dose, to me that would be safer on your liver, but again they are 2 different ingredients so what I was saying also wouldn’t even pertain.

3. I genuinely didn’t realize the rules about talking about other companies, which I still think is a little hardcore but totally makes sense and I respect now, especially in a thread about a certain product/brand, So I am sorry for that.

All I really want is 100% raw unfiltered supplement talk with bubbas, but I’m realizing there are more rules than I thought, and my lack of following/understanding the rules is causing problems, which is not what I’m looking for.

 

[sns8778]

I had to go back and make sure but you are still taking things out of context to make me look bad and like I argue.

1. I never disagreed or argued with the person who told me muscletech didn’t own it, they told me, I posted what googled said and then all I said was something still didn’t seem right

2. I had to go back and look at that one too about DAA but I never said the NDMA was safer I was speaking about if there’s 2 same ingredients but 1 is a smaller dose, to me that would be safer on your liver, but again they are 2 different ingredients so what I was saying also wouldn’t even pertain.

3. I genuinely didn’t realize the rules about talking about other companies, which I still think is a little hardcore but totally makes sense and I respect now, especially in a thread about a certain product/brand, So I am sorry for that.

All I really want is 100% raw unfiltered supplement talk with bubbas, but I’m realizing there are more rules than I thought, and my lack of following/understanding the rules is causing problems, which is not what I’m looking for.

I'm not trying to make you look bad at all.

I'm trying to show you how the way that you have done a few things has contributed to how you say I'm taking what you did in this thread the wrong way. Had it not been for those other things, I probably wouldn't have thought anything of the comments in this thread.

The way I took the DL-185 thread was pretty simple - someone posted some absolute bs garbage, you thought it was true and went along with it because you hate Muscletech, when the reality is that the ingredient has nothing to do with Muscletech. I didn't fault you for that, I fault the person that posted it bc he did it to intentionally spread false information - and if you think about it, it worked - on you, bc if no one had explained it to you, you would have continued to think Muscletech owned it.

^^^ Think about that. That's all I'm trying to do here is make sure that other people don't get misled by anything that you post that's not correct. I'm not trying to put you down, not asking you to not discuss anything, I'm asking you to make sure if you post something about one of our products/ingredients, to make sure it is correct so as not to confuse or mislead anyone else the way that the person that posted the one thread would have mislead you if several of us hadn't cared enough to explain it.

Seriously, that's it.

I'm all for unfiltered honest supplement talk - every year I create a thread where people discuss ingredients in depth, throw ideas around, etc. About the only rule I have in that thread is to not mention or discuss other companies products because that wouldn't be ethical or fair to them. If you haven't seen the thread, here's a link, and feel free to ask questions, make suggestions, participate, etc. - https://anabolicminds.com/community...cel-muscle-addiction-xpg-2025-edition.338940/

-------------------------------------------------------------------

As far as rules here, there really aren't that many - the one about not going into brand threads and promoting other companies ingredients/products is a rule on any supplement forum that I've ever known of. Not just supplements, but any type of forum I can think of. Think about it - on a Jeep forum, a Mopar rep can't just go in a Rough Country sub-forum or thread started by a company representative to promote their stuff or vice-versa.

The forums don't have a lot of members anymore, but back when they did, if that were allowed, then that's all that would have occurred would be brands getting people to post negative things in other companies threads. And the reverse side is that if discussion of other brands were allowed in those threads, brand xyz could have someone mentioned a competitors product and then talk down about it - so the Admin has a rule that it just simply isn't allowed.

The rules here are not bad at all, and they make sense to those of us that have been here for a long time, and if they don't to you, if you're here long enough they likely will. The ones I can think of right offhand:

• No spamming or trolling.
• No racism or bigotry.
• No politics outside of that one thread - we lost a lot of members bc of political arguments years ago; so the Admin made that one thread kind of an enter at your own risk type of thing.
• Post in the appropriate forum - anabolics in the anabolics forum (no source posting), supplements in the supplement forum, etc.
• No outside links posted to non-sponsor companies - this one may seem extreme at first, but you don't want people and bots spamming and scamming. So its a heck of a lot easier to just say don't do it than to have someone trying to monitor it all the time.
• No posting about other brands in a brands introduction or discussion thread - for reasons I explained above plus I think its just as a common courtesy.

I'm sure there's probably others, but those are the only ones I can think of right off hand.

 

[3ChainedAminos]

Once again out of context, someone said something about muscletech, I looked it up, google even backed it up, so I did not base it off hating muscletech. So you are saying and even going into elaborate detail on something that’s not true. So can you see how I may think you are trying to make me look bad? Wish this convo was in person, it would go different because it would be more genuine.

 

[sns8778]

Once again out of context, someone said something about muscletech, I looked it up, google even backed it up, so I did not base it off hating muscletech. So you are saying and even going into elaborate detail on something that’s not true. So can you see how I may think you are trying to make me look bad? Wish this convo was in person, it would go different because it would be more genuine.

Man, I'm really not trying to argue with you.

My post said:
The way I took the DL-185 thread was pretty simple - someone posted some absolute bs garbage, you thought it was true and went along with it because you hate Muscletech, when the reality is that the ingredient has nothing to do with Muscletech. I didn't fault you for that, I fault the person that posted it bc he did it to intentionally spread false information - and if you think about it, it worked - on you, bc if no one had explained it to you, you would have continued to think Muscletech owned it.

You're saying I took something out of context to try to make you look bad?
Is that not straight out saying that I didn't fault you for it, I faulted the person that posted the misinformation?

I straight out said how I could see how you were mislead - fact is, you were mislead, bc it isn't true.

The reason I said that you based it off of hating Muscletech was because you posted in that thread how much you disliked Muscletech. Since you're saying that what I said isn't true, here's exactly what I based it off of: