Building Back Up
- Thread starter GreenMachineX
- Start date
Segansational
Well-known member
This! I always try to stay on track with # of workouts, might not be the same program, time of day, weights, etc. But as long as I've gotten in the gym it's success.Vacation lifting is a novelty, do it for the pump and walk away knowing you kept yourself in gear for when you get home
GreenMachineX
Well-known member
I've been thinking about a new plan when I get back and using this week to experiment a little. I'm thinking about trying the Stronger By Science type full body 4 says per week plan that I talked about before. I'll put it together and lay it out today or tomorrow.
Dustin07
Legend
same here, and its pretty rare to find a legit barbell in a travel gym so I'll just substitute my deadlifts with DB RDLs, goblet squats, rows, etc to keep things in motion until I'm back on the heavy weights.
MrKleen73
Legend
I have an anniversary trip coming up and have 3 workouts scheduled during that time. However, I am gonna have to just go anyway. Probably set my alarm and go while the wife sleeps in. Typically, I would do the same as you all but not right now. Good thing is this discussion just reminded me to look for a gym out there to train in. DUH!
GreenMachineX
Well-known member
Invalid Link RemovedInvalid Link Removed
Check out that free test! This is 8mg test cyp daily Shallow IM. Everything looks perfect, right? The only thing is, it wasn't quite true trough. I do my shot at 9pm, but this was drawn at 1pm, but it's daily shots, so should it matter much?
@Hyde @Smont @MrKleen73
Edit: Also, the answer to my low libido isn't any of this it looks like. DHT though a bit low given how high the free test is?
Check out that free test! This is 8mg test cyp daily Shallow IM. Everything looks perfect, right? The only thing is, it wasn't quite true trough. I do my shot at 9pm, but this was drawn at 1pm, but it's daily shots, so should it matter much?
@Hyde @Smont @MrKleen73
Edit: Also, the answer to my low libido isn't any of this it looks like. DHT though a bit low given how high the free test is?
Last edited:
GreenMachineX
Well-known member
Today's Workout:
Close Grip Bench 4 x 10 x 135
Deadlift 5x315, 5x335, 5x345
DB Lateral Raise 3 x 12 x 10's
Double Cable Row 4 sets
Skullcrushers 3 x 12/11/10 x 45
Really fun workout. I love blending upper and lower together.
Close Grip Bench 4 x 10 x 135
Deadlift 5x315, 5x335, 5x345
DB Lateral Raise 3 x 12 x 10's
Double Cable Row 4 sets
Skullcrushers 3 x 12/11/10 x 45
Really fun workout. I love blending upper and lower together.
MrKleen73
Legend
First off, nice session and even better you really enjoyed it.
Second, very impressive with your serum test being right in the midrange. E2 is not bad at all considering how high your free test is in my opinion. Looks good to me! I didn't get the testosterone part of my blood work back yet, but I know it is out of range on the positive side.
If not something is horribly wrong.
GreenMachineX
Well-known member
Thanks for the feedback! Yeah I was watching your thread to see your test results too.First off, nice session and even better you really enjoyed it.
Second, very impressive with your serum test being right in the midrange. E2 is not bad at all considering how high your free test is in my opinion. Looks good to me! I didn't get the testosterone part of my blood work back yet, but I know it is out of range on the positive side.
But my dht is a little on the low side for that free T level isn't it? Or, maybe a low dose trial of epiandro or something might something for a "light blast" being that my e2 is just about perfect?
Hyde
Legend
Transdermal Epiandro would be an ideal thing to experiment with, or oral if you want to time it around training & can plan sex. Or a combo of transdermal & oral of course. There’s basically no downsides if you feel okay on it, given you’re on TRT. Safe as anything, anyway.
GreenMachineX
Well-known member
Yeah, but it's only when I do daily is it like this. Free T on 50mg twice per week was on my 105. Free T on 24mg EOD was 117.
GreenMachineX
Well-known member
I'd really like to find an oral androsterone or combo with epiandro, like I used about 8 years ago. I loved that...think it was called Androhard. Even at like 30% or more BF, I was hard as a rock and veins everywhere lol. And zero anxiety whatsoever.
Side complaint... really wish this website had dark mode.
Smont
Legend
Those are all still better then how 99% of people respond. For me it dont matter how i dose it, i need about 100-125mg minium to feel good and like myself. 150 is ideal, but, weather im on 150 or 400 and 1 pin or daily, i feel the same. Im on 500 test and juat bumped to 625 and honestly, it feels no different then when i cruise. I look and perform different in the gym, but thsts about it. Just normal other then that.
GreenMachineX
Well-known member
Yeah, I don't really know what I'd feel like if I went to say 15mg per day. Might feel like a blast or put me in an asylum lol. Kind of why I'd rather look at other things for a blast because I really can't take the overstimulated feeling.
With levels like I have now, gains should come pretty easy when I go back to normal caloric intake, correct? I saw a graph somewhere that was dispelling benefits from "test boosters"and it was showing that gains go up significantly until you hit "normal levels", flatten out across the normal levels, then go up rapidly again when supraphysiologic, but I don't remember how far above the upper limit that happened.
Smont
Legend
I would expect very natty like gains on test only untill your test levels break the 2000 total t mark. Theres no science on my part. I just talk to a lot of users and work with a few too. I do not feel like theres any real increase in growth from high normal range 900-1200 until you pretty much double total test. Going from my trt 150, i need a minium of 300 to start my cycle and the response to that is going to be minimal if noticable at all. Obviously there's gonna be a million variables.
So yes u think going from sub 300t to 1000 you will get better results. Going from 1000 to 1500 I don't think you would notice the slightest difference in muscle growth.
I've never seen at first hand. I thought lots of people tell me that they get a huge increase. And I've seen people talk about it in their logs. But when they post up photos I don't see any difference in the pylhysique.
I also dont have the same defination of blast as some around here.
Trt is trt - in range
Cycle is anything over trt
Blast is pushing your doses to a new high or something significantly more. FOR ME, i wouldnt call anyrhing less then 1000 total mg's a blast
I'm sure someone will wanna argue with what I'm saying. So just to be clear here. These are my personal opinions. I don't really give a **** what anybody else thinks or refers to trt/cycle or blast. My definations are my definations and its how i present things when ppl wanna use gear. Theres no scenirio i would consider 300 - 500mg a blast unless its someones first cycle .
Again, these are MY definitions of these things and if i can ever get off the ground with my stuff thats how i present it.
With all that said..... the less you need to gain the better!
Smont
Legend
Its definately tough to quantify and thats why i wanted tp stress that my point was personal opinion. I do agree with a lot of what you said tho. I definately think a person with 1000 total t and high free t will build more total mass then a guy with half those numbers. But both are going to build muscle at a "natural" rate if all other factors are even. So if your natty or on trt and your not a newbie, your gonna gain what, 2lbs of tissue in a year, maybe the guy with thec1000 test on trt can build 2.2lbs, its hard to see the difference. But you takeva person living the BB lifestyle and running 2-3 blasts and adds 10lbs of tissue, its gonna be much more noticable
MrKleen73
Legend
Let's call it somewhere in the middle.
Like you said anything over TRT is a cycle, regardless of how mild, but a blast could intuitively be considered something that is going to gain you some attention at how quickly you are growing beyond what is normal growth rates for most humans. It's similar to the test doesn't really start doing it's thing until 8 weeks or whatever... No, that is when you have grown enough to really notice the changes that have been happening since moments after your first elevated shot of testosterone or gear. Like mentioned you will still see gains from a year of TRT+ or Sports TRT, and over the year they will become pretty noticeable but probably not so much at the 8-12 week mark unless you are pretty lean, or recomping and leaning out in the process, or were relatively low androgen naturally.
GreenMachineX
Well-known member
About an hour after falling asleep with my usual 3mg lunesta, I woke up sweating, heart pounding, anxious and "stimmed" in my brain, like I had drank a coffee when though I haven't had any caffeine in 2 years, except 1 mountain dew about 6 months ago. I didn't think a few ounces of milk chocolate would do this and I can't reasonably explain it with anything else. Seems to be wearing down now, but sleep is nowhere in sight. Still stimmed, but can feel the lunesta fighting it thankfully. This definitely isn't one of those "didn't eat enough" days since well, it's Thanksgiving 
As I'm thinking about it, maybe it was 5oz of milk chocolate which could've been a couple hundred mg of theobromine. Hate being sensitive to this stuff.
Edit: praise the Lord I fell asleep only after about an hour and a half of that nonsense.
As I'm thinking about it, maybe it was 5oz of milk chocolate which could've been a couple hundred mg of theobromine. Hate being sensitive to this stuff.
Edit: praise the Lord I fell asleep only after about an hour and a half of that nonsense.
Last edited:
GreenMachineX
Well-known member
Seated DB Press 4 x 10/10/10/9 x 65's
Assisted Neutral Grip Pullup 4 sets
Cable Flies 3 sets
Facepulls 3 sets
Incline DB Curls 3 sets
Assisted Neutral Grip Pullup 4 sets
Cable Flies 3 sets
Facepulls 3 sets
Incline DB Curls 3 sets
GreenMachineX
Well-known member
Weight: 226.2 
Really went off the rails the past 2 days, but other then yesterday I was getting 13k to 20k steps and had 3 or 4 workouts, so not a real tragedy. Even now, completely filled out and water logged, I could still see the outline of my abs in the mirror. In the car for 12 hours yesterday, so definitely missed my step count then.
Upper push workout later today...maybe.
Really went off the rails the past 2 days, but other then yesterday I was getting 13k to 20k steps and had 3 or 4 workouts, so not a real tragedy. Even now, completely filled out and water logged, I could still see the outline of my abs in the mirror. In the car for 12 hours yesterday, so definitely missed my step count then.
Upper push workout later today...maybe.
GreenMachineX
Well-known member
Flat DB Press 4 sets
Standing OHP 3 sets
Low Incline DB Press 3 sets
DB Lateral Raise 3 sets
Overhead Triceps Extension 3 sets
Triceps Dips 2 sets
Nothing worth noting. Strength feels like it's heading down. We'll see how this week goes.
Standing OHP 3 sets
Low Incline DB Press 3 sets
DB Lateral Raise 3 sets
Overhead Triceps Extension 3 sets
Triceps Dips 2 sets
Nothing worth noting. Strength feels like it's heading down. We'll see how this week goes.
Dustin07
Legend
Sorta funny logging in and seeing how much we all added to the scale this weekWeight: 226.2
Really went off the rails the past 2 days, but other then yesterday I was getting 13k to 20k steps and had 3 or 4 workouts, so not a real tragedy. Even now, completely filled out and water logged, I could still see the outline of my abs in the mirror. In the car for 12 hours yesterday, so definitely missed my step count then.
Upper push workout later today...maybe.
If you decide to forgo the oral and andro, I've enjoyed the XPG Epiandro quite a bit. I did the oral version last spring and am finishing up the TD version now.
For libido tho, I still get a bigger kick in the pants from the XPG Alpha Gel + orchic extract.
GreenMachineX
Well-known member
LolSorta funny logging in and seeing how much we all added to the scale this week
If you decide to forgo the oral and andro, I've enjoyed the XPG Epiandro quite a bit. I did the oral version last spring and am finishing up the TD version now.
For libido tho, I still get a bigger kick in the pants from the XPG Alpha Gel + orchic extract.
With my strength going the wrong direction, it's making me consider epiandro or a little more seriously. Or maybe just increase kcal to maintenance for a little while.
MrKleen73
Legend
Honestly Brother, it will help you so much if you just decide what priority you want to work on. You are likely to lose strength while leaning up. Most people do unless they are on gear. Especially strength for reps. To be honest especially with pressing it all isn't actual strength so much as loss of advantageous leverages and an increase in rom. So just decide which is most important to you now and stick with goal you choose for a while. If that is maintain through the holidays while trying to get stronger then do that. Otherwise stay as strong as you can during your cut if strength is important and as soon as you start pushing calories performance will have a nice rebound and probably increase. Just think of the long game and what you need in this period to get to do better in the next and you will be better for having done it.
GreenMachineX
Well-known member
Good thoughts. Yeah, I'll stick with cutting. Thanks.
GreenMachineX
Well-known member
Weight: 223.6
Yesterday's Macros
3,358 kcal
249g pro
99g fat
359g cho
14k steps.
3k kcal goal for today.
Yesterday's Macros
3,358 kcal
249g pro
99g fat
359g cho
14k steps.
3k kcal goal for today.
GreenMachineX
Well-known member
Also good call. Back to light cutting. Thanks.
GreenMachineX
Well-known member
Traditional DL 3x315, 3x335, 3x355, 3x375
Mid-Row Machine 15x125, 10x205, 8x225, 6x245, 6x265
Machine Shrugs 3 x 8 x 160
Reverse Pec Deck 12x20, 10x30, ???
Hammer Curl 3 x 10 x 30's
Single Leg Curl 2 x 10 x 45 (left leg drop to 30)
Scapular Depression on Lat Pulldown 2 x 15
Felt good for today's Workout. Just 30g pea protein and 22g carb10/hbcd preworkout did the trick. I know I'm better with more carbs overall, but too many at one time seems to be an issue.
GreenMachineX
Well-known member
Thank you sir.
I was wondering...do you do Leg Curls at all?
For everyone, are leg curls necessary for knee health? My knee flexion compared to my hip extension and knee extension is very unbalanced.
MrKleen73
Legend
You know, I am not sure about that specific question. I have heard some good things about leg curls and knee health, but I am not sure. I would definitely do either seated or lying leg curls or you are leaving some hamstring development on the table. Hinging movements are great but can't provide the same effect on the hamstring as a leg curl does so I would do both or rotate them in and out at a minimum.
Hyde
Legend
You don’t have to do them always, but if you are getting any knee pain then isolated hamstring work usually can help improve knee stability. I try to always have GHR or leg curling in most of the time. Sometimes just what I get from reverse hypers or RDLs is fine, but in general my hams get a good bit of attention.
GreenMachineX
Well-known member
So the GHR is why I brought them up. Years ago, before ACL reconstruction, I was able to do GHRs on the Smith machine with my heels hooked under a loaded bar, but at the new gym on a real GHR thing, I couldn't even control the negative down. Felt like I almost tore my hands hams lol
Hyde
Legend
If you can snag some kind of long stick, like a pvc pipe for stretching or a lat pulldown handle, you can use it to control the descent a little & push off from the bottom to assist the rep back up partially.
If you can’t do a GHR, building that ability to do a few unassisted eventually will be a big strength upgrade to your lower body lifts.
Hyde
Legend
Another thing if you don’t have a stick, or bands, is if you can get a friend to hold your feet for Nordics you can do a push-up off the ground, or on a GHR machine to catch you and throw you back up as you contract to curl. My wife has used both of those before to get her ham strength back up after childbirth.
MrKleen73
Legend
Everyone has given some great suggestions. My only other suggestion is to make sure you weren't set up to close to the pad on the GHR. If so, it puts you at a leverage that kind of hyperextends the knee with most of your weight extended out in front of you at a bad leverage point. So if feels like it is about to pull while you are lowering and raising yourself back up which could make it feel like it is going to pop. I did this my first time on the GHR and it was not a pleasant experience. Might be something to check out. You want the pad a few inches above your knee, not super close to the knee so you don't get overextended and end up hyperextended with all that weight out in front of you.
Dustin07
Legend
I love them for exactly the reason you mention but rarely have time to fit them in unfortunately.
man I wish I could remember the context and who did the podcast or article but not too long ago someone was talking about running these types of lifts as light as necessary to make sure you actually achieve 100% full ROM for this exact purpose.
which machine are you talking about, like this? we always called this a GHD (glute ham developer), but when you were first talking I was sorta picturing reverse hypers too.
Invalid Link Removed
when I tore that ligament in my back I had a PT find that I had a massive and I mean massive strength deficiency in my left leg that I had no idea about. so i spent a lot of time doing pistol squats with a kettlebell (you can of course do them assisted) and one legged leg extensions and leg curls to help isolate that leg for specific work. there was like 1-3 years there where my left leg was working as a cane and my right leg was doing all the work on squats and deadlifts and I didn't even realize it.
Dustin07
Legend
I feel like they're sorta like pull-ups. getting that first one in your toolbox is harder then getting the 10th one once you train it enough and develop the skill.
MrKleen73
Legend
yes that is it. Glute Ham Raise, or Glute Ham Developer I think is the other acronym but as far as I know it is the same movement. Someone smarter than me can correct me if i am wrong.
Dustin07
Legend
i f'ing hated those things, they became a staple in xfit. we usually had to do them with 20lb med balls. both directions (GHD like that, and as situps, coming back to touch the ground and back up).
it's basically what I did today for my back extensions but on the 45deg version. they light me up
it's basically what I did today for my back extensions but on the 45deg version. they light me up
GreenMachineX
Well-known member
I'm going to have to read this again when I don't have brain fog
I am not getting it lol
GreenMachineX
Well-known member
Yes, that's the machine I meant. I can do back extensions just fine, but actual leg curls are sooo bad lol.
I'll add the Leg Curls in with consistency.
MrKleen73
Legend
I knew they were intertwined in some way. Now I know. Thanks! Maybe I won't sound so silly next time, I think I have said it was a GHR bench before or something. LMAO!Glute Ham Raise is an exercise done on a Glute Ham Developer.
MrKleen73
Legend
Basically put yourself in a position that the weight of your extended body is pressing into the pad on the lower mid thigh, not closer to the knee. it puts you in a better leverage point, less resistance and no hyperflexion at the knee. Think of the fulcrum point (where your weight is supported by the pad) being 4-6 inches above the knee depending on height.I'm going to have to read this again when I don't have brain fog
GreenMachineX
Well-known member
Ohhhhh lol. That's exactly the opposite of what I did. I'll try it again later this week. Thanks.
GreenMachineX
Well-known member
Weight: 221.6
Yesterday's Macros
2,888 kcal
203g pro
77g Fat
352g cho
11k steps.
Weight coming back down, still super carb full though so I think I can get close to my low from a couple weeks ago once I'm depleted again.
Yesterday's Macros
2,888 kcal
203g pro
77g Fat
352g cho
11k steps.
Weight coming back down, still super carb full though so I think I can get close to my low from a couple weeks ago once I'm depleted again.
GreenMachineX
Well-known member
Thank you sir!