Post-Shoulder Surgery - Still in Pain

[hardtoget]

Fully agree. I'm starting to learn that pinning my scapula back takes a lot of stress off my front shoulders and biceps. This will go a long way for me. Problem is with my scoliosis it won't change the fact I have a winged scapula. With overhead exercises I'll need to concentrate better and pinning them back.

 

[joe123!]

Trust me, I feel your pain. 9 months ago my shoulder MRI showed 2 frays, 2 moderate tares, bursitis and tendonitis. After lots of PT &BPC-157, I am just now fully able to do pullups. However, I still can’t go 100% on bench or pushups. I have the same issue with the shoulder tendon that runs down the bicep.

What I found helpful was static stretching, find the pain and sit on it for a several minutes. Also, go super light with higher reps and never go beyond 90 degrees. Going beyond 90 will put additional stress on the shoulder and help provide time for healing and building up the muscles. Also, goes without saying, but keeping your elbows tucked closer to your chest when you bench will go a long way. I’ve do a boatload of PT movements every day and do a couple sets before picking up weights.

All and all, shoulders are a bitch to heal and just take time. Starting out with 5lbs then 10, 15, 20 overhead was humbling to say the least. Whole thing made me rethink the way I workout lol.

 

[joe123!]

Appreciate the responses from you guys. I'm more frustrated at my doctor's nonchalant comment about this type of AC joint procedure. Pretty much telling me after 7-8 weeks most people are back lifting weights again. Based on what I see from YouTube channels and others who have had the procedure, my doctors comments are a bit out of touch with reality. I will just need to take it easy and not just jump into it again, I think some doctors today need to withhold their own opinions.

That's interesting, I pressed my doc and my PT and neither would put a timeline on my injury. They both just told me I had a lot going on and it would take time. Kind of glad they didn't, bc I know myself, I would have pushed too hard as soon as the date hit haha

 

[Rocket3015]

Trust me, I feel your pain. 9 months ago my shoulder MRI showed 2 frays, 2 moderate tares, bursitis and tendonitis. After lots of PT &BPC-157, I am just now fully able to do pullups. However, I still can’t go 100% on bench or pushups. I have the same issue with the shoulder tendon that runs down the bicep.

What I found helpful was static stretching, find the pain and sit on it for a several minutes. Also, go super light with higher reps and never go beyond 90 degrees. Going beyond 90 will put additional stress on the shoulder and help provide time for healing and building up the muscles. Also, goes without saying, but keeping your elbows tucked closer to your chest when you bench will go a long way. I’ve do a boatload of PT movements every day and do a couple sets before picking up weights.

All and all, shoulders are a bitch to heal and just take time. Starting out with 5lbs then 10, 15, 20 overhead was humbling to say the least. Whole thing made me rethink the way I workout lol.

I don’t think I will ever be able to do dumb bell shoulder work again

 

[The Solution]

What's up guys,
I want to pick your brain on your shoulder. Because I have a Slap tear in my right shoulder that was diagnosed in 2021. It felt great after doing PT for about 14-16 months. Then end of December I was warming up for a fly and felt it tweak again. I started PT last month (Jan), and over the last 4 weeks, I don't feel it is getting better, to be honest. Daily chores like lifting heavy things, carrying grocery bags, etc seem to be a chore. Get it sore/tight, and anything rear delt I do flares it up. Front raises and laterals don't bother it much but I can do them very lightly. Now the crazy thing is, since reinjuring it. It seems like my left shoulder is degrading in strength, my chest is getting very tight (very random times either on the outer pec or inner pec)

After doing a PT eval they can move my right shoulder in any motion and it is strong. But it will randomly feel super weak all the time and heavy. To the point where I am scared to use it. It does "pop" a bit more than normal when doing a daily thing but it doesn't cause any pain. I assume that is from the weak ligaments.
I am exploding the option or PRP (have an appointment for a consult on March 6th) but uncertain how much this will help longevity-wise or bite the bullet for surgery.

The biggest thing I fear is my left shoulder now has a slap tear because it's constantly getting weaker and this only started to happen once I went to PT, prior to that and reinjuring my right shoulder after almost a 2-year span of the original diagnosis it just seems bizarre all of this happens at once. No matter how much Graston, soft tissue, or banded work/push-ups and stretches in PT they can't get it to flare. It actually feels great when I go to PT and almost no pain.

Could this be just the lack of shoulder strength in both? I really DONT want to get surgery, but the more the days go by and it makes things harder to do daily chores like grocery shop and picking up things I am starting to REALLY worry and the downtime of a slap tear/labrum is BRUTAL.

I also don't want to inject the living heck out of my body with BPC 157 and TB 500 because I don't think long term it will be the end goal, if anything a temporary bandage on the wound.

Thoughts?
- Bob

 

[botk1161]

What's up guys,
I want to pick your brain on your shoulder. Because I have a Slap tear in my right shoulder that was diagnosed in 2021. It felt great after doing PT for about 14-16 months. Then end of December I was warming up for a fly and felt it tweak again. I started PT last month (Jan), and over the last 4 weeks, I don't feel it is getting better, to be honest. Daily chores like lifting heavy things, carrying grocery bags, etc seem to be a chore. Get it sore/tight, and anything rear delt I do flares it up. Front raises and laterals don't bother it much but I can do them very lightly. Now the crazy thing is, since reinjuring it. It seems like my left shoulder is degrading in strength, my chest is getting very tight (very random times either on the outer pec or inner pec)

After doing a PT eval they can move my right shoulder in any motion and it is strong. But it will randomly feel super weak all the time and heavy. To the point where I am scared to use it. It does "pop" a bit more than normal when doing a daily thing but it doesn't cause any pain. I assume that is from the weak ligaments.
I am exploding the option or PRP (have an appointment for a consult on March 6th) but uncertain how much this will help longevity-wise or bite the bullet for surgery.

The biggest thing I fear is my left shoulder now has a slap tear because it's constantly getting weaker and this only started to happen once I went to PT, prior to that and reinjuring my right shoulder after almost a 2-year span of the original diagnosis it just seems bizarre all of this happens at once. No matter how much Graston, soft tissue, or banded work/push-ups and stretches in PT they can't get it to flare. It actually feels great when I go to PT and almost no pain.

Could this be just the lack of shoulder strength in both? I really DONT want to get surgery, but the more the days go by and it makes things harder to do daily chores like grocery shop and picking up things I am starting to REALLY worry and the downtime of a slap tear/labrum is BRUTAL.

I also don't want to inject the living heck out of my body with BPC 157 and TB 500 because I don't think long term it will be the end goal, if anything a temporary bandage on the wound.

Thoughts?
- Bob

Have you got new imaging done to see the state of the shoulder? Possibly there is other damage now (ie partial tear(s) in the rotator cuff tendons) It sounds worse - hopefully only due to the increased atrophy which is serving to not prop up the stability of that shoulder. Bob, you have allot of miles on your shoulders and your missing allot of training and enjoyment right now in these good years. I believe you have done all you could do to rehab this and it’s getting worse. If you need surgery, get it done now instead of later - when there may be more damage. I will suggest you may be expecting too much of it as well, but I will have to leave that negotiation up to you. But, if we cannot live pain free (not discomfort from training), we are on a decline in that area of pain. And this is what I believe you are describing. At 56 I don’t do some movements like flys anymore, but I am pressing pretty heavy and have pain free shoulders). No slap tears for me, but both rotator cuffs and a upper bicep tendon. The biggest thing that I have found to help the shoulders, which you may not be doing, is hanging (feet touching the ground too) with regular and reverse grip. And moving around in this position. I cannot stress how much this has helped movement and nerve flow.

 

[The Solution]

Have you got new imaging done to see the state of the shoulder? Possibly there is other damage now (ie partial tear(s) in the rotator cuff tendons) It sounds worse - hopefully only due to the increased atrophy which is serving to not prop up the stability of that shoulder. Bob, you have allot of miles on your shoulders and your missing allot of training and enjoyment right now in these good years. I believe you have done all you could do to rehab this and it’s getting worse. If you need surgery, get it done now instead of later - when there may be more damage. I will suggest you may be expecting too much of it as well, but I will have to leave that negotiation up to you. But, if we cannot live pain free (not discomfort from training), we are on a decline in that area of pain. And this is what I believe you are describing. At 56 I don’t do some movements like flys anymore, but I am pressing pretty heavy and have pain free shoulders). No slap tears for me, but both rotator cuffs and a upper bicep tendon. The biggest thing that I have found to help the shoulders, which you may not be doing, is hanging (feet touching the ground too) with regular and reverse grip. And moving around in this position. I cannot stress how much this has helped movement and nerve flow.

I have not had updated imaging because the contrast imaging takes FOREVER to get into, and like you said I do fear it is worse, in which that case it would make things worse. But it may take months to even get that, and at my current state I mean I can't do too much besides type on a computer, basic house chores, shower, read, and work (since I work from home on a laptop). Picking up too heavy of boxes and stuff can be tedious and then my chest will get tight (I assume from the lacking shoulder strength).

The killer thing is I fear my left shoulder may be getting there.... and if I get surgery on the right my left will be very unstable to the point of I really won't be able to do much if anything. Pretty lousy and depressing to be honest.

I have found to help the shoulders, which you may not be doing, is hanging (feet touching the ground too) with a regular and reverse grip. And moving around in this position. I cannot stress how much this has helped movement and nerve flow.

Can you explain this?
just on a regular pullup bar but standing on the ground?
I can raise my arms 100% over my head without pain and even laterally (front raise/lateral raise).

 

[chainsaw]

What's up guys,
I want to pick your brain on your shoulder. Because I have a Slap tear in my right shoulder that was diagnosed in 2021. It felt great after doing PT for about 14-16 months. Then end of December I was warming up for a fly and felt it tweak again. I started PT last month (Jan), and over the last 4 weeks, I don't feel it is getting better, to be honest. Daily chores like lifting heavy things, carrying grocery bags, etc seem to be a chore. Get it sore/tight, and anything rear delt I do flares it up. Front raises and laterals don't bother it much but I can do them very lightly. Now the crazy thing is, since reinjuring it. It seems like my left shoulder is degrading in strength, my chest is getting very tight (very random times either on the outer pec or inner pec)

After doing a PT eval they can move my right shoulder in any motion and it is strong. But it will randomly feel super weak all the time and heavy. To the point where I am scared to use it. It does "pop" a bit more than normal when doing a daily thing but it doesn't cause any pain. I assume that is from the weak ligaments.
I am exploding the option or PRP (have an appointment for a consult on March 6th) but uncertain how much this will help longevity-wise or bite the bullet for surgery.

The biggest thing I fear is my left shoulder now has a slap tear because it's constantly getting weaker and this only started to happen once I went to PT, prior to that and reinjuring my right shoulder after almost a 2-year span of the original diagnosis it just seems bizarre all of this happens at once. No matter how much Graston, soft tissue, or banded work/push-ups and stretches in PT they can't get it to flare. It actually feels great when I go to PT and almost no pain.

Could this be just the lack of shoulder strength in both? I really DONT want to get surgery, but the more the days go by and it makes things harder to do daily chores like grocery shop and picking up things I am starting to REALLY worry and the downtime of a slap tear/labrum is BRUTAL.

I also don't want to inject the living heck out of my body with BPC 157 and TB 500 because I don't think long term it will be the end goal, if anything a temporary bandage on the wound.

Thoughts?
- Bob

Good to see you post on here again Bob, it has been some time. Maybe it is just the forum is dying. Either way good luck with your shoulder PT and recovery, iron game takes its toll.

 

[botk1161]

I have not had updated imaging because the contrast imaging takes FOREVER to get into, and like you said I do fear it is worse, in which that case it would make things worse. But it may take months to even get that, and at my current state I mean I can't do too much besides type on a computer, basic house chores, shower, read, and work (since I work from home on a laptop). Picking up too heavy of boxes and stuff can be tedious and then my chest will get tight (I assume from the lacking shoulder strength).

The killer thing is I fear my left shoulder may be getting there.... and if I get surgery on the right my left will be very unstable to the point of I really won't be able to do much if anything. Pretty lousy and depressing to be honest.

I have found to help the shoulders, which you may not be doing, is hanging (feet touching the ground too) with a regular and reverse grip. And moving around in this position. I cannot stress how much this has helped movement and nerve flow.

Can you explain this?
just on a regular pullup bar but standing on the ground?
I can raise my arms 100% over my head without pain and even laterally (front raise/lateral raise).

Sorry to hear about the depressing mood, I know the feeling. Its time to turn this around though. You still have lots of years of lifting to do! No matter how long it takes to get to the point of surgery, you may as well get started now cause rehab has not worked. I am lucky up here in Canada. I can literally see Sports Doc in one week and be doing surgery in less than 6 months (and this is not even for an emergency case, but for someone who can do the basics of everyday life).

The best thing I can suggest is to rehab the shoulder(s) like your 6 weeks out of surgery. Its slow and methodical and does not include anything that will take away from moving forward. Its a change in perspective that I have been successfully appiled to other "chronic" injuries. When I was 6 weeks out of surgery, they had me getting ROM. Seems like you have that. Then they had me doing high rep, ultra light band work (front and lateral raise thumb down) everday. Next was adding a push up off a block. And then a small water bottle 1/2 - full with water: With your arm at the top of a front raise and lateral raise - shake the bottle for time and go beyond the burn. And a lying rotator cuff exercise with a dumbell or standing with a band (again very light high rep).
I am certain you can get that shoulder feeling better, develop good hygene you will need going forward and prepare it for surgery. Just my experience.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I have found to help the shoulders, which you may not be doing, is hanging (feet touching the ground too) with a regular and reverse grip. And moving around in this position. I cannot stress how much this has helped movement and nerve flow."

Can you explain this?
just on a regular pullup bar but standing on the ground?
Yes, in a rack at home I grab the bar as if doing a pull up (I like to start wide), flex the lats and hang for at least 10 seconds to feel that beginning of a pull up tension and then I put my feet or toes on the ground and focus on the stretch. I move myself side to side and back and forth noting where I may be tighter. Closer grips and reverse grip (which my ROM on one side is always challenged). It seems to traction the upper body basically - almost like inversion, but for the upper body. Its done wonders for my thorasic alignment and my pressing is through the roof using dumbells and barbell weight I have not used in 25 years. Even though I am in need of rotator cuff surgery on one side which I happen to be getting next week - I had the other side done about 14 months ago and its better than it ever was now. I hope you can get yourself there one day at a time.

 

[The Solution]

Sorry to hear about the depressing mood, I know the feeling. Its time to turn this around though. You still have lots of years of lifting to do! No matter how long it takes to get to the point of surgery, you may as well get started now cause rehab has not worked. I am lucky up here in Canada. I can literally see Sports Doc in one week and be doing surgery in less than 6 months (and this is not even for an emergency case, but for someone who can do the basics of everyday life).

The best thing I can suggest is to rehab the shoulder(s) like your 6 weeks out of surgery. Its slow and methodical and does not include anything that will take away from moving forward. Its a change in perspective that I have been successfully appiled to other "chronic" injuries. When I was 6 weeks out of surgery, they had me getting ROM. Seems like you have that. Then they had me doing high rep, ultra light band work (front and lateral raise thumb down) everday. Next was adding a push up off a block. And then a small water bottle 1/2 - full with water: With your arm at the top of a front raise and lateral raise - shake the bottle for time and go beyond the burn. And a lying rotator cuff exercise with a dumbell or standing with a band (again very light high rep).
I am certain you can get that shoulder feeling better, develop good hygene you will need going forward and prepare it for surgery. Just my experience.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I have found to help the shoulders, which you may not be doing, is hanging (feet touching the ground too) with a regular and reverse grip. And moving around in this position. I cannot stress how much this has helped movement and nerve flow."

Can you explain this?
just on a regular pullup bar but standing on the ground?
Yes, in a rack at home I grab the bar as if doing a pull up (I like to start wide), flex the lats and hang for at least 10 seconds to feel that beginning of a pull up tension and then I put my feet or toes on the ground and focus on the stretch. I move myself side to side and back and forth noting where I may be tighter. Closer grips and reverse grip (which my ROM on one side is always challenged). It seems to traction the upper body basically - almost like inversion, but for the upper body. Its done wonders for my thorasic alignment and my pressing is through the roof using dumbells and barbell weight I have not used in 25 years. Even though I am in need of rotator cuff surgery on one side which I happen to be getting next week - I had the other side done about 14 months ago and its better than it ever was now. I hope you can get yourself there one day at a time.

Absolutely incredible reply Mate.. Bless your soul
Yes I can do laterals and front raises with 0 pain and I have no issue doing this banded and high rep to help strengthen the ligaments and underlying secondary muscles
I don't have a pull-up bar at my house where I can stand and stretch but I have a wood block I can get my hands on (Front/backward) and really stretch.

Honestly, anything you can do to enhance movement and range of motion is godsent. Because if you let the shoulder get tight or locked up is when that stiffness gets so nasty and bizarre that you can't do much.
I am going to see my PCP on Friday to see about getting imaging done on my left shoulder (my right is my initial injury) since I already have an Xray and starting to get random chest tightness (i assume from compensation from weak shoulders), and I see a clinical doctor the following Monday in Pitt --> I can discuss nonsurgical things (PRP) or if he feels my shoulder is in great health so ahead with the surgery and start the recovery process.

The crazy thing is -- I will most likely have to get BOTH done eventually cause since I started PT on my right shoulder my left has just decreased in strength and has started to get the same sides as my slap tear on my right shoulder.

I have to be the unluckiest dude in the world to have 2 bad shoulders, but I won't point the finger until I get imaging done and see what I can do about my right.

Thanks for the insight. Just reading that took a HUGE load of stress off my shoulders. It's great to have a family in AM where we all have our peaks and valleys and stick by each others side like a family

 

[botk1161]

Absolutely incredible reply Mate.. Bless your soul
Yes I can do laterals and front raises with 0 pain and I have no issue doing this banded and high rep to help strengthen the ligaments and underlying secondary muscles
I don't have a pull-up bar at my house where I can stand and stretch but I have a wood block I can get my hands on (Front/backward) and really stretch.

Honestly, anything you can do to enhance movement and range of motion is godsent. Because if you let the shoulder get tight or locked up is when that stiffness gets so nasty and bizarre that you can't do much.
I am going to see my PCP on Friday to see about getting imaging done on my left shoulder (my right is my initial injury) since I already have an Xray and starting to get random chest tightness (i assume from compensation from weak shoulders), and I see a clinical doctor the following Monday in Pitt --> I can discuss nonsurgical things (PRP) or if he feels my shoulder is in great health so ahead with the surgery and start the recovery process.

The crazy thing is -- I will most likely have to get BOTH done eventually cause since I started PT on my right shoulder my left has just decreased in strength and has started to get the same sides as my slap tear on my right shoulder.

I have to be the unluckiest dude in the world to have 2 bad shoulders, but I won't point the finger until I get imaging done and see what I can do about my right.

Thanks for the insight. Just reading that took a HUGE load of stress off my shoulders. It's great to have a family in AM where we all have our peaks and valleys and stick by each others side like a family

God bless you. Lord knows you have given so much to AM. And I am hearing the enthusiasm in your last post that we miss, of you, here at AM. Looking forward to hearing about the progress of your comeback. No progress is too small to get excited about.

 

[joe123!]

What's up guys,
I want to pick your brain on your shoulder. Because I have a Slap tear in my right shoulder that was diagnosed in 2021. It felt great after doing PT for about 14-16 months. Then end of December I was warming up for a fly and felt it tweak again. I started PT last month (Jan), and over the last 4 weeks, I don't feel it is getting better, to be honest. Daily chores like lifting heavy things, carrying grocery bags, etc seem to be a chore. Get it sore/tight, and anything rear delt I do flares it up. Front raises and laterals don't bother it much but I can do them very lightly. Now the crazy thing is, since reinjuring it. It seems like my left shoulder is degrading in strength, my chest is getting very tight (very random times either on the outer pec or inner pec)

After doing a PT eval they can move my right shoulder in any motion and it is strong. But it will randomly feel super weak all the time and heavy. To the point where I am scared to use it. It does "pop" a bit more than normal when doing a daily thing but it doesn't cause any pain. I assume that is from the weak ligaments.
I am exploding the option or PRP (have an appointment for a consult on March 6th) but uncertain how much this will help longevity-wise or bite the bullet for surgery.

The biggest thing I fear is my left shoulder now has a slap tear because it's constantly getting weaker and this only started to happen once I went to PT, prior to that and reinjuring my right shoulder after almost a 2-year span of the original diagnosis it just seems bizarre all of this happens at once. No matter how much Graston, soft tissue, or banded work/push-ups and stretches in PT they can't get it to flare. It actually feels great when I go to PT and almost no pain.

Could this be just the lack of shoulder strength in both? I really DONT want to get surgery, but the more the days go by and it makes things harder to do daily chores like grocery shop and picking up things I am starting to REALLY worry and the downtime of a slap tear/labrum is BRUTAL.

I also don't want to inject the living heck out of my body with BPC 157 and TB 500 because I don't think long term it will be the end goal, if anything a temporary bandage on the wound.

Thoughts?
- Bob

Noticed you are going back in for imaging, that will tell the tale. With 17 muscles in the shoulder, it def possible that something is messed up. Looks like you have done a lot of PT. For me, I was going nuts in the gym and when I entered PT I took on a complete mindset shift. I only lifted at the PT, and one did the PT movements at home. Mainly bc the PT told me not to do anything other then what he introduced. After 3 months, I got my ROM back, and still had some pain.

Took another 4 months before I was virtually pain free. I 100% forced myself to only grab 15s for a month, then 20s for a month, they 25s... that was the progression that helped me heal. I could have started with 30s, but know it would just put me back where I started. Now, I am 9 months out probably 90% recovered. I can go OH with 30s for 10 reps, and bench 40s for 10 reps pain free. Could I push more, sure, but I know it will cost me. I had to have a complete mindset shift from day one until now. Honestly think re-thinking my entire workout structure, only doing what I know I can do without issues, is what has helped with me personally. I was my biggest hurdle, ego and pride wanted to lift heavier on many occasions, but thank God he governed me. I can finally swing KBs again!

 

[botk1161]

Is it ever liberating to finally get out of our own way (remove ego and replace with discipline) and then start see the progress we have always wanted. Cheers

 

[celc5]

Solution, don't waste a cent on prp.
And I'd hold off on adding a diagnosis (L shoulder). Let ur PT and docs focus on 1 thing.

4 weeks is not enough time for a re aggravation of a labral tear. RS ur Ortho for another monthout and keep doing PT. If u are 8 weeks into rehab with a labral reaggravation, u should be about 50 or 60 weights u did pre injury. If u r not 60% by wk 8, then just schedule the labral repair.