Supplementing with DHEA?

Wordz_Worf

Wordz_Worf

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
Im 35 and have (had) low T as confirmed by labs. I am seeing an endo who seems to be pretty conservative. She says that i do not need TRT and my insurance wont cover it because my levels are in the normal range.

I feel pretty OK now, but I know if i do not keep my routine, training and continue to improve my sleep, my levels will drop again. This scares me.

I managed to get my T levels up to the high 600s via diet and supplements, as well as sleeping better. I have been diagnosed with sleep apnea and have a CPAP that I wear, but it is a struggle.

I have low prolactin levels as well, probably due to P5P, maca and gingko supplementation.

My question is, can I safely supplement with DHEA and get my test levels up a bit more?

Currently, I am only taking a multi, ,cissus, citrulline, black ginger and ginkgo.

I cycle maca and boron every couple months and will start those up again at 10mg boron a day and 20 grams black maca. I also cycle the P5P every few weeks.

Diet is fairly clean, lots of grilled chicken, very little red meat, no pork. I eat eggs and supplement with whey+hemp protein powders. Carbs are mostly from oats or rice. I get a lot of veggies in, especially kale and spinach. Going to eat more brussle sprouts for the I3C/DIM content.

I do not smoke, do drugs or drink alcohol.

I have 25mg DHEA caps, would it be safe to take? I also have some I3C for estrogen control.

Any advice or info would be appreciated, thanks.
 
Wordz_Worf

Wordz_Worf

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
why DHEA?
To be honest,I don't know what else I can add supplement wise.

I have Mucuna, DAA, tribulus, Tongkat Ali and other natural supplements. Haven't taken DAA yet, the rest seem to help with libido which even with low test, was still high.

I may try fadogia and bulbine after I research them some more. Just looking to get my levels a bit higher as I try to gain more muscle.
 
KvanH

KvanH

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • Established
  • RockStar
Kronic

Kronic

Well-known member
Awards
5
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
To be honest,I don't know what else I can add supplement wise.

I have Mucuna, DAA, tribulus, Tongkat Ali and other natural supplements. Haven't taken DAA yet, the rest seem to help with libido which even with low test, was still high.

I may try fadogia and bulbine after I research them some more. Just looking to get my levels a bit higher as I try to gain more muscle.
I'm not very familiar with taking straight dhea. sounds like hair loss so I never persued it much. fadogia probably does work for LH but I am cycling enlomiphine for my LH booster. it's not OTC though and technically has a blood clotting risk (it blocks estrogen which can have negative effects)
 
xR1pp3Rx

xR1pp3Rx

Legend
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
if your test is already in the 600s you likely won't get much if any boost from DHEA alone. consider it like a master fuel for all hormones. the catch is it only fuels what's needed. in your case, you don't really need higher test. you may want it, but DHEA will look at it as a full tank.

Hyperion is a well rounded product that will target free test. as in its designed boost free and total test but also improves mood/libido/sense of well being
 
Wordz_Worf

Wordz_Worf

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
if your test is already in the 600s you likely won't get much if any boost from DHEA alone. consider it like a master fuel for all hormones. the catch is it only fuels what's needed. in your case, you don't really need higher test. you may want it, but DHEA will look at it as a full tank.

Hyperion is a well rounded product that will target free test. as in its designed boost free and total test but also improves mood/libido/sense of well being
Is there a high chance it would aromatize and raise my estrogen? Id like to give it a shot at a low dose along with I3C or DIM.
 
KvanH

KvanH

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • Established
  • RockStar
I have. Looks good and I will probably run it in the near future.
Seems like it could fit your needs quite well. About the estrogen, I would guesstimate it to fall in the same line as test, in that the dhea won't aggresively convert in to estrogen, when there's no deficiency. Big doses could still lead to unwanted high estrogen levels, I think. But generally a small rise in estrogen is nothing to be afraid of, unless you know you'll feel unwell with even slightly elevated estrogen levels. Gyno, ED, mood issues related to estrogen typically come from very unfavorabale E2 to androgens ratio.

Anyway, you can add any questions on the Hyperion thread about the product and the compounds it contains.
 
xR1pp3Rx

xR1pp3Rx

Legend
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
DHEA doesn't aromatize. but it could convert into test and then aromatize, but again, it's also capable of making more estrogen.
I find it hard to imagine that you would create either problem if you're not using a boat load of DHEA. if you are using between 25-100 mgs per day i think it's safe to say you wont get many issues if any. I see no problems in using the products you mentioned during the DHEA use.
 
Kronic

Kronic

Well-known member
Awards
5
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
I think I've read before, that dhea can increase free T levels. But that Reddit post doesn't make a whole lot of sense. If TT and shbg remains relatively constant, then how could free T rise? Only other variable I can come up with is Albumin, but it's effect on free T is relatively low, to my knowledge.
I'm not sure what "fucking up" shbg translates to, but I don't think it actually lowers the number. 213 free is a lot tho, so if he's not lying that's pretty nice
 
KvanH

KvanH

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • Established
  • RockStar
I'm not sure what "fucking up" shbg translates to, but I don't think it actually lowers the number. if 213 free is a lot tho, so if he's not lying that's pretty nice
Typically the number lowers, when it binds to other androgens, right? I've had shbg in the gutter on sarms. Or does it not translate to lower number, when you have eccess dht or dht derivatives, that the shbg binds to? Hopefully someone who knows better can enlighten us.
 
Kronic

Kronic

Well-known member
Awards
5
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
Typically the number lowers, when it binds to other androgens, right? I've had shbg in the gutter on sarms. Or does it not translate to lower number, when you have eccess dht or dht derivatives, that the shbg binds to? Hopefully someone who knows better can enlighten us.
I don't think the shbg number lowers when it binds to things. so i think it's just binding to the dhea but the real puzzle is why doesn't shbg go up to compensate
 
KvanH

KvanH

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • Established
  • RockStar
I don't think the shbg number lowers when it binds to things. so i think it's just binding to the dhea but the real puzzle is why doesn't shbg go up to compensate
That could be so. I don't think the body would see a need to up the shbg, when it's binding to more dhea in addition to test and other androgens. I'm just specualting though.

How does the shbg get crushed on some compounds though?
 
KvanH

KvanH

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • Established
  • RockStar
I'm throwing a lot of speculation and guessing around, lol. A bit silly. Should just do my research, when I don't have the answers.. I've become lazy..
 
Last edited:
klbsa

klbsa

Member
Awards
1
  • First Up Vote
I've used DHEA to great effect in the past. The capsules wont do anything for you.... You will need to use a sublingual liquid version or an injectable.

I bought some injectable DHEA 20 years ago in Mexico and combined with 200mg of Test prop a week I was getting amazing results. The Pumps you will get from injectable DHEA is unrivaled IMO.

I also used liquid DHEA sublingual some years ago and had a tremendous response with a 10lb gain in just under 5 weeks..... I was taking 30mg four to five times a day (4-5 times the manufacturer's recommended dosage) evenly spread out for a total dosage of 120-150 mg a day.....and like with the injectable version my pumps were incredible.
 
Kronic

Kronic

Well-known member
Awards
5
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
I've used DHEA to great effect in the past. The capsules wont do anything for you.... You will need to use a sublingual liquid version or an injectable.

I bought some injectable DHEA 20 years ago in Mexico and combined with 200mg of Test prop a week I was getting amazing results. The Pumps you will get from injectable DHEA is unrivaled IMO.

I also used liquid DHEA sublingual some years ago and had a tremendous response with a 10lb gain in just under 5 weeks..... I was taking 30mg four to five times a day (4-5 times the manufacturer's recommended dosage) evenly spread out for a total dosage of 120-150 mg a day.....and like with the injectable version my pumps were incredible.
hm cant find any injectable that i would trust. kinda not liking most of the orals im finding. seems like all the good brands are transdermal now
 
klbsa

klbsa

Member
Awards
1
  • First Up Vote
hm cant find any injectable that i would trust. kinda not liking most of the orals im finding. seems like all the good brands are transdermal now
You could get yourself a jar of DMSO gel to use. Just get about a teaspoon of the gel and mix in the powder from your capsules.....Then use it transdermal. I think the typical amount that will absorb is 20% of what you put into the mix.
 
Kronic

Kronic

Well-known member
Awards
5
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
You could get yourself a jar of DMSO gel to use. Just get about a teaspoon of the gel and mix in the powder from your capsules.....Then use it transdermal. I think the typical amount that will absorb is 20% of what you put into the mix.
looks like toniq dhea is super cheap right now so I bought a bunch of those capsules. I'll try mixing with some DMSO I guess lol. seems like it irritates a lot of people's skins
 
Rostam

Rostam

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
looks like toniq dhea is super cheap right now so I bought a bunch of those capsules. I'll try mixing with some DMSO I guess lol. seems like it irritates a lot of people's skins
It does irritate and also let absorb anything in the product and on the skin.
 
Wordz_Worf

Wordz_Worf

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
this is a very interesting video. a lot of newer info.
i actually was doing some reading about SHBG and why low levels may not be a good thing. I have lower levels and I read with the condition I have, sleep apnea, low SHBG could be the reason testosterone drops. Something about poor sleep affecting production of SHBG and therefore, the test that would have been bound to it is lost. I am paraphrasing here and maybe someone more educated and knowledgeable can chime in, but it seems like having low SHBG isnt as simple and positive as we may think.

I initially attributed my levels to taking boron and zinc since I was able to raise my test to the high 600s from 400s and sometimes even 200s. Now I wonder exactly what the hell is going on in my body.

My SHBG level is at 20.4 nmol/L.
 
xR1pp3Rx

xR1pp3Rx

Legend
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
i actually was doing some reading about SHBG and why low levels may not be a good thing. I have lower levels and I read with the condition I have, sleep apnea, low SHBG could be the reason testosterone drops. Something about poor sleep affecting production of SHBG and therefore, the test that would have been bound to it is lost. I am paraphrasing here and maybe someone more educated and knowledgeable can chime in, but it seems like having low SHBG isnt as simple and positive as we may think.

I initially attributed my levels to taking boron and zinc since I was able to raise my test to the high 600s from 400s and sometimes even 200s. Now I wonder exactly what the hell is going on in my body.

My SHBG level is at 20.4 nmol/L.
to me this is where the hormonal optimizers like ashwaganda and resveratol are actually invaluable. they tend to make everything even out. have you tried these and given them enough time to work? (they are herbs so it takes time to fix the problems)
 
Wordz_Worf

Wordz_Worf

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
to me this is where the hormonal optimizers like ashwaganda and resveratol are actually invaluable. they tend to make everything even out. have you tried these and given them enough time to work? (they are herbs so it takes time to fix the problems)
I have tried ash in the past and it was hit or miss. Generic ash extract makes me feel like crap, non-extract powder makes me feel better. I purchased on KSM66 and plan to run it soon at a low dose and slowly titrate up.

I have used resveratrol in the past, but only at lower doses of 100mg at a time. I will look into. Thanks for the info.
 
xR1pp3Rx

xR1pp3Rx

Legend
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
for the resveratrol I recommend APEX topicals. hands down the best way to use res imo.

regardless of what route you take to administer either of these things.. remember its gonna take a couple months to fully kick in.

I suspect that the hit or miss feelings you may have had in the past was the feels one gets when the rollercoaster of hormonal cascades happen during the "resetting/optimization"
 
Kronic

Kronic

Well-known member
Awards
5
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
I agree Apex resveros is the way to go for resveratrol. you can actually feel the effects instead of just hoping it does something. I've been a long time resveratrol user across multiple brands.

regarding shbg 20 I think that should be fine. I watched that whole video and it's really interesting.

does anyone happen to know how much dhea is in Hyperion? can I put it on and sprinkle a dhea cap on it lol
 
Cheeky Monkey

Cheeky Monkey

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
Can you find another endo who is a bit more open-minded?
 
Rostam

Rostam

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
for the resveratrol I recommend APEX topicals. hands down the best way to use res imo.

regardless of what route you take to administer either of these things.. remember its gonna take a couple months to fully kick in.

I suspect that the hit or miss feelings you may have had in the past was the feels one gets when the rollercoaster of hormonal cascades happen during the "resetting/optimization"
Does resveratrol have any impact on SHBG or testosterone rate other than lowering estrogens?
 
xR1pp3Rx

xR1pp3Rx

Legend
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
I agree Apex resveros is the way to go for resveratrol. you can actually feel the effects instead of just hoping it does something. I've been a long time resveratrol user across multiple brands.

regarding shbg 20 I think that should be fine. I watched that whole video and it's really interesting.

does anyone happen to know how much dhea is in Hyperion? can I put it on and sprinkle a dhea cap on it lol
25 mgs per ml
 
xR1pp3Rx

xR1pp3Rx

Legend
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
Does resveratrol have any impact on SHBG or testosterone rate other than lowering estrogens?
I think it's better for normalizing and optimizing the overall hormonal profile. I am unaware of any studies done with res and SHBG. there are studies showing improved hormonal profiles from its use, however.

If i wasn't at work today I would do a little research to see what i could find..
 
BCseacow83

BCseacow83

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
You could get yourself a jar of DMSO gel to use. Just get about a teaspoon of the gel and mix in the powder from your capsules.....Then use it transdermal. I think the typical amount that will absorb is 20% of what you put into the mix.
DMSO works but smells and irritates and you don't want the fillers in the cap. You can grab a bottle of pre-made with salvo carrier for under $20.00.


 
Kronic

Kronic

Well-known member
Awards
5
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
DMSO works but smells and irritates and you don't want the fillers in the cap. You can grab a bottle of pre-made with salvo carrier for under $20.00.


ty I didn't know iconic had that
 
Wordz_Worf

Wordz_Worf

Member
Awards
1
  • Established
Can you find another endo who is a bit more open-minded?
I have actually been thinking about this. My doc is a nice person, but I feel she is probably not in-tune to the issues men with hormonal issues face or how we feel.

I hope I dont sound sexist, but I just think a male doctor would understand a bit better. Im going to ask my GP about referring me to someone else.
 
BCseacow83

BCseacow83

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
I have actually been thinking about this. My doc is a nice person, but I feel she is probably not in-tune to the issues men with hormonal issues face or how we feel.

I hope I dont sound sexist, but I just think a male doctor would understand a bit better. Im going to ask my GP about referring me to someone else.
It has been my experience that there is NO gender divide when it comes to closed minded medical practitioners. I have had both lousy female(said come back when you are 40 your too young to have these problems total test was sub 100ng/dl at the time.) I also had a male endo who scripted 200mg ONCE every THREE weeks...................he also refused to even entertain the idea of testing estrogen and said under no circumstance would he ever script any AI or Serm(I do agree that on properly dosed for the individual TRT MOST will never need either but to close that door WITHOUT even testing is plain idiotic.)

I fired both of them.

My wife's FORMER dr. when asked about her possibly trying HRT was offered an antidepressant............based on her lab work I failed to find the results indicating a SSRI deficiency.............

Crappy drs.(as is with ALL professions) are to be found in all shapes, sizes, and pronouns........best you can do is FIRE THEM and move on.
 
ELROCK

ELROCK

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • RockStar
  • First Up Vote
I have actually been thinking about this. My doc is a nice person, but I feel she is probably not in-tune to the issues men with hormonal issues face or how we feel.

I hope I dont sound sexist, but I just think a male doctor would understand a bit better. Im going to ask my GP about referring me to someone else.
It’s just a matter of finding a physician that understands the optimization of hormones. It’s not a matter of male or female physician.
 

tenorguy33

Member
Awards
1
  • First Up Vote
have you guys tried a DO instead of an MD?
This is a good point. I don’t have an experience when it comes to hormone levels out of range but I had an MD for the better part of my life and it was always about medicating/fixing a certain problem and never looking outside of it or at prevention. I switched to a DO and even just the conversations back and forth have been so much more productive. She tends to look at the whole and doesn’t just jump to prescribe a pill for everything. More recently I have had many mystery health issues and I am so glad I have a DO that I can go back and forth to work with and try and figure things out. (Much more open to options and open minded about prevention and treating the body as a whole)
 
klbsa

klbsa

Member
Awards
1
  • First Up Vote
looks like toniq dhea is super cheap right now so I bought a bunch of those capsules. I'll try mixing with some DMSO I guess lol. seems like it irritates a lot of people's skins
I have learned that a great way to use DMSO is to mix your anabolic powder of choice with a small amount of everclear….. Then spread the mixture on the intended area, let the alcohol evaporate leaving just the product…… THEN smear DMSO over top of it, wrap the area with Saran Wrap and then go to bed….. Or go about your day.
 
Kronic

Kronic

Well-known member
Awards
5
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
I have learned that a great way to use DMSO is to mix your anabolic powder of choice with a small amount of everclear….. Then spread the mixture on the intended area, let the alcohol evaporate leaving just the product…… THEN smear DMSO over top of it, wrap the area with Saran Wrap and then go to bed….. Or go about your day.
and you just deal with the skin irritation? have about salvo?
 
Kronic

Kronic

Well-known member
Awards
5
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
I have learned that a great way to use DMSO is to mix your anabolic powder of choice with a small amount of everclear….. Then spread the mixture on the intended area, let the alcohol evaporate leaving just the product…… THEN smear DMSO over top of it, wrap the area with Saran Wrap and then go to bed….. Or go about your day.
and you just deal with the skin irritation? have about salvo?
 
xR1pp3Rx

xR1pp3Rx

Legend
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
seems decent. i would read through the reviews first.

and topically when applied to the shoulders, you should see about 40% absorption. the thing thats croolest about topicals is that it kind of leeches the product into the blood stream over time. better yet, because of this, you will get the better effects because there will be more enzymes to covert the andro.

there is more of the specific enzymes found in the shoulder area driving even better conversion.
 
Kronic

Kronic

Well-known member
Awards
5
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
I will say it seems like these 100mg toniq dhea capsules do seem to do something when taken orally. it seems like tablets and capsules is really popular for dhea and idk why people would think it doesn't work at all
 
KvanH

KvanH

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • Established
  • RockStar

What do you guts think of something like this? $60 for a 90 day supply. 20% of 100mg will be absorbed, right?
To me it says unavailable and that there's no info on when it will be back in stock. That might be a location thing too though..?

I don't have any expertise on the matter, so I don't know how difficult it is to create and produce a high quality high performing carrier and delivery method, and if that aspect is something trivial or an important focus point with something like dhea. But I do know, that a transdermal product is only as good as the carrier / delivery method used and that brands like Iconic and Apex are of the top performers and innovators in the field.

So just saying that maybe the what ever random brand with a topical dhea with the best price tag is not the best route to getting the most out of TD dhea supplementation.
 
Last edited:
Kronic

Kronic

Well-known member
Awards
5
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
iconic formulations has a TD dhea. if I were to buy TD I'd probably go with that one. it's like half the price of that other one linked above
 

Top