EpiPlex and/or Follidrone2.0

MikeSumthin

MikeSumthin

Member
Was wondering if anyone stacks CEL's EpiPlex and BLR's Follidrone together?
Expensive but worth it?
Anyone prefer one over the other?

Let's hear it @sns8778
 
These are both great products but I don’t see a benefit in stacking (as opposed to just using a higher dose of one or the other).
 
I would just stick with the Follidrone only because it has additional ingredients to the epc.

If you are set on stacking it, then I would go Follidrone+Androgin.......
 
MikeSumthin said:
Was wondering if anyone stacks CEL's EpiPlex and BLR's Follidrone together?
Expensive but worth it?
Anyone prefer one over the other?

Let's hear it @sns8778
Click to expand...

both awesome products in my opinion

Epi plex - straight -epi, no prop .. one bottle can be extended past 4 weeks

1st week - 1 cap .. and then follow 2 caps a day has been great

you can actually stack them ( i have done that with okay results, felt solo epi plex @ 600mg was better )
stacking you can do epi plex ( 1 bottle and extend it 8 weeks )

epi plex will enhance other stuff you throw in .. i love epi plex + anabolic effect
 
Follidrone is one of the best products I’ve taken hands down
Crazy endurance and recomp effects
 
Personally, I would go with Epi-Plex. If not for the fact that Follidrone uses a prop blend. Prop blends are always a point of concern for me. I mean why have one?

Then also because someone brought up very interesting points regarding Androgin in another comparison thread. At the least I would say stack the two products so you know you’re getting an exact and adequate amount of Epi.
 
Last edited:
MikeSumthin said:
Was wondering if anyone stacks CEL's EpiPlex and BLR's Follidrone together?
Expensive but worth it?
Anyone prefer one over the other?

Let's hear it @sns8778 Invalid Link Removed
Click to expand...

I have the feeling I'm tagged here because you already know my policy on not liking to compare our products to competing companies products because I never like to say anything negative about other companies. :)

You could stack them if you wanted to. The only common ingredient is Epicatechin. But I think you'd find much better feedback on stacking Epi-Plex with Anabolic Effect if you want to run a stack with Epi-Plex as the base.

Follidrone is a prop blend of quite a few different ingredients. It contains Epicatechin but you don't know how much.

Epi-Plex contains 300 mg. Epicatechin per capsule + 20 mg. Piperine for enhanced absorption.

For those that like Ecklonia Cava, we will have that in a product coming up soon as well.
 
bwdill said:
I would just stick with the Follidrone only because it has additional ingredients to the epc.

If you are set on stacking it, then I would go Follidrone+Androgin.......
Click to expand...
Sure it has more ingredients but it’s a little bit deceptive that it’s behind a prop blend. Traditionally, prop blends are used to hide the quantity of more expensive ingredients amidst less expensive ingredients just to say it contains it while lowering the cost of making the product. I have a hard time believing that it’s because there is some magical synergistic ratio of ingredients being used that doesn’t want to be copied or stolen. Imo that makes the quantity of ingredients more of a concern than a benefit. Not making accusations but it’s something common in cheaply made and heavily marked up preworkouts. I see it all the time. As some who is in the market to purchase natural muscle builders and anabolics I would want to know the exact quantity of epi or a good explanation why a proprietary blend is used. Especially since last time I checked with raw material suppliers, Epi is very very expensive.
 
sns8778 said:
But I think you'd find much better feedback on stacking Epi-Plex with Anabolic Effect if you want to run a stack with Epi-Plex as the base.
Click to expand...

I tagged you because epi is a staple for you, you have massive amounts of knowledge about all CEL products and you don't mind sharing your own personal experiences...

I'm currently running Anabolic Effect w Follidrone...
Just haven't heard about anyone adding Epi w that for maybe better added benefits.
 
MikeSumthin said:
I tagged you because epi is a staple for you, you have massive amounts of knowledge about all CEL products and you don't mind sharing your own personal experiences...

I'm currently running Anabolic Effect w Follidrone...
Just haven't heard about anyone adding Epi w that for maybe better added benefits.
Click to expand...

I meant my post more jokingly. Sorry, sometimes humor doesn't come off right online, which is why I don't joke a lot on here. In day to day life, I pick and play all the time but on here, sometimes its hard to know when someone is. That's why I'd put the smiley face after it. I never mind you tagging me in anything; I'm always glad to help in any way that I can.

Thank you for the compliment, I appreciate that.

I don't think many people to my knowledge have added Epi-Plex to a Follidrone/Anabolic Effect stack because we see most people running Epi-Plex with Anabolic Effect.

There would be no harm in adding Epi-Plex because then you'd know for sure how much Epicatechin you'd be getting.

And coming up pretty soon, we'll have a lot more cool options like Anabolic XT and several new anabolic options under CEL that you can add to stacks like this as well if you want to.
 
MikeSumthin said:
@ZOO, actually I thought proprietary blends are listed to safe guard from copy cats...
Click to expand...
I sort of touched in that in my reply as well. I don’t believe there is a magical synergistic mix of the ingredients listed that would warrant needing it. Epi doses are well established as far as what’s effective and what isn’t. At the least that amount should have been denoted in the prop blend. Tbh I think the whole idea of saying it’s to protect against copycats is a marketing ploy to defend using prop blends in the first place.

The only time I could see the validity of this is in patented branded ingredients such as Peak O2 which has substantial studies and research to support that particular blend of mushrooms.
 
ZOO said:
Tbh I think the whole idea of saying it’s to protect against copycats is a marketing ploy to defend using them in the first place.
Click to expand...

I really think companies are starting to catch on that we're noticing and picking companies over them because other companies are using transparent labels. The prop blends will probably start disappearing and will be more confined to companies that sell their stuff on the shelves of Walmart...
 
sns8778 said:
I don't think many people to my knowledge have added Epi-Plex to a Follidrone/Anabolic Effect stack because we see most people running Epi-Plex with Anabolic Effect.

There would be no harm in adding Epi-Plex because then you'd know for sure how much Epicatechin you'd be getting.

And coming up pretty soon, we'll have a lot more cool options like Anabolic XT and several new anabolic options under CEL that you can add to stacks like this as well if you want to.
Click to expand...
Ok, sounds great.
My real question now is when the hell do you ever sleep?
 
MikeSumthin said:
@ZOO, actually I thought proprietary blends are listed to safe guard from copy cats...
Click to expand...

This post has nothing to do with any specific company. It's just about prop blends in general. And I'm not posting anything now that I haven't posted for probably 10 years; including posting very in depth in the thread I'm going to mention below that some of the other old timers may remember haha.

I can't speak for any other company as to why they would use prop blends. But its been known for many years that the most common reason for using them is to keep product costs down. That's why in prop blends you normally always see an inexpensive ingredient at the top.

Take a pre-workout with a 5 gram prop blend - you'll commonly see things like Citrulline Malate, Taurine, and Betaine at the top. They're great ingredients but they're also cheap ingredients. So in a 5 gram prop blend, a brand could literally give you 4.99 grams of those and then less than 1 mg. on expensive things like Alpha GPC, Agmatine, etc. (the more expensive ingredients). So to the uneducated customers eyes, they still think they're getting all of those. But what the companies doing it like that are really doing is keeping costs down to increase profits.

The argument that a lot of companies used to use was that they used prop blends to keep from getting copied. I always viewed that as more of an excuse to justify the prop blends. The reason being is because its pretty widely known what the effective dosages of certain ingredients and that there are no magical secret ingredients in this industry. Raw material suppliers are in business to make money too and if they come up with something special or unique, they want to sell it to as many people as possible. Plus, its conveniently always lesser expensive ingredients at the tops of the blends and pricier ones below which means it less dosage of those if the brands are labeling products correctly and following FDA labeling guidelines.

There was a huge let's call it 'open label movement' from 4 to 7 years ago (I'm guessing, time runs together for me) that saw a lot of companies stop using prop blends because so many educated customers turned against them.

There used to be a great thread on another forum - no use looking for the thread because it got taken down because it upset a lot of companies. To this day, its still one of my all time favorite threads. The person posting had access to a lot of industry pricing. He would first break down prop blends and detail what the dosages of everything in the prop blends should be so that you would see how short many came up in terms of what they would need to be versus what they were. Then he would give a cost estimate of what the product would be based on what it would cost if the product had in it the ideal dosages of ingredients. Then, he would detail how the blend was likely made up based on label sequence and what it would cost based off of that. It gave a great insight and you could see just how much some companies were saving and misleading by using prop blends.

I'm not saying that's why all companies do prop blends; each has their own reasons and have to make the decision that they feel like is best for them and their businesses.

In our case, we focus on providing efficaciously dosed products at cost effective products and want people to know the dosages of each ingredient that they're getting since they are dosed correctly.
 
I have used more bottles of Follidrone then any other supplement. In this instance, I couldn’t care less that it is a prop blend because it remains effective for me. I like epi-plex too and sometimes will add 1 cap epi-Plex with 1 cap follidrone pre-workout and the muscular endurance is great.
 
MikeSumthin said:
@ZOO, actually I thought proprietary blends are listed to safe guard from copy cats...
Click to expand...
This is the facts.
We are very clever with our labeling because our products are commonly copied.
Some companies do use prop blends to hide poor ingredient content but we are not those people.

And Frankly @ZOO its insulting for you to imply otherwise and I dont appreciate it.
And, Epi is NOT very very expensive. When we first started selling it and only BLR had it it was 2500 a kilo. Now its about 350-400 if you buy it in mass.
 
I’m just stating my opinion on prop blends in general; I just need the full disclosure for my own comfort as a consumer. People will see who the copycats are and would be good to avoid those who rip off other companies. It’s a gross practice that unfortunately does exist so if it’s a safeguard to protect BLR products I’m all for it. Again, this is just my stance as a consumer looking at supplement formulations across the industry as a whole and wasn’t intended to target any one person or entity in particular. Admittedly I should have been more careful in my wording to avoid any implications. That said, I like and respect most everyone I’ve encountered from employee to rep from BLR. My apologies for making statements that are otherwise offensive. Wishing nothing but the best for BLR and their customers 💪🏻
 
Last edited:
ELROCK said:
I have used more bottles of Follidrone then any other supplement. In this instance, I couldn’t care less that it is a prop blend because it remains effective for me. I like epi-plex too and sometimes will add 1 cap epi-Plex with 1 cap follidrone pre-workout and the muscular endurance is great.
Click to expand...

I don't like comparison threads in general bc they so often lead to conflicts and arguing. But they're difficult to avoid because customers wonder how they compare, which ones are better, etc. And sometimes, products get compared that aren't really the same things.

In this case, both products contain a common ingredient but besides that, they're different products. And both have good feedback.

For people that want a straight Epicatechin product and want to know exactly how much they're getting, Epi-Plex has 300 mg. Epicatechin per capsule + 20 mg. Piperine for enhanced absorption.

For people that want a combination product that has Epicatechin in it and don't mind prop blends, Follidrone gets good feedback too.

And the proprietary blend argument has been around for ages and grew so heated in the mid 20teens. It still gets talked about some but not viciously argued over back and forth as much as it used to. I think many have just decided for themselves they're either okay with it or they aren't; which is fine to me because that 100% their right and individual opinions as to what they're comfortable putting into their bodies. And from a supplement company perspective, as with many decisions, each company has to make a decision as to what's in their best interest as a company. It used to pretty much be a given that the big companies almost always used prop blends and now its become much more rare to see them do so bc the public perception towards them has changed so much.
 
MikeSumthin said:
Ok, sounds great.
My real question now is when the hell do you ever sleep?
Click to expand...

I don't much unfortunately lol.

I average between 4 and 6 hours a night if I'm lucky.

I'm in the middle of a couple of very big projects in addition to all of the new products coming out. And as you can imagine, doing the write ups and label text on those alone takes up a huge amount of time. I've worked 70+ hours a week every week since December and there's only been one day that I didn't work since December and that was because I had one of the worst flare ups I've ever had with my autoimmune condition and could barely move around. I still meant to work that day, but I'd had to go somewhere that morning and by the time I came back I was in so much pain it hurt to type a text message reply. So that was my one day off for the year so far lol.
 
ZOO said:
I’m just stating my opinion on prop blends in general; I just need the full disclosure for my own comfort as a consumer. People will see who the copycats are and would be good to avoid those who rip off other companies. It’s a gross practice that unfortunately does exist so if it’s a safeguard to protect BLR products I’m all for it. Again, this is just my stance as a consumer looking at supplement formulations across the industry as a whole and wasn’t intended to target any one person or entity in particular. Admittedly I should have been more careful in my wording to avoid any implications. That said, I like and respect most everyone I’ve encountered from employee to rep from BLR. My apologies for making statements that are otherwise offensive. Wishing nothing but the best for BLR and their customers 💪🏻
Click to expand...
I appreciate this. Thanks.
And look man, I dont disagree AT ALL that 99.999999% of the prop blends you see are to hide the fact that there is .0001% of the ingredients in there. It is certainly true, but, BLR was started specifically because of this. Because sports nutrition supps sucked and I needed something better for myself personally.
We would never short sell our customers. If anything........your getting better than what you think.
 
Been running Folidrone since it came out and only have stopped here and there to try a couple of cans of other products like Epi-plex. Folidrone trumps them all.
 
sns8778 said:
This post has nothing to do with any specific company. It's just about prop blends in general. And I'm not posting anything now that I haven't posted for probably 10 years; including posting very in depth in the thread I'm going to mention below that some of the other old timers may remember haha.

I can't speak for any other company as to why they would use prop blends. But its been known for many years that the most common reason for using them is to keep product costs down. That's why in prop blends you normally always see an inexpensive ingredient at the top.

Take a pre-workout with a 5 gram prop blend - you'll commonly see things like Citrulline Malate, Taurine, and Betaine at the top. They're great ingredients but they're also cheap ingredients. So in a 5 gram prop blend, a brand could literally give you 4.99 grams of those and then less than 1 mg. on expensive things like Alpha GPC, Agmatine, etc. (the more expensive ingredients). So to the uneducated customers eyes, they still think they're getting all of those. But what the companies doing it like that are really doing is keeping costs down to increase profits.

The argument that a lot of companies used to use was that they used prop blends to keep from getting copied. I always viewed that as more of an excuse to justify the prop blends. The reason being is because its pretty widely known what the effective dosages of certain ingredients and that there are no magical secret ingredients in this industry. Raw material suppliers are in business to make money too and if they come up with something special or unique, they want to sell it to as many people as possible. Plus, its conveniently always lesser expensive ingredients at the tops of the blends and pricier ones below which means it less dosage of those if the brands are labeling products correctly and following FDA labeling guidelines.

There was a huge let's call it 'open label movement' from 4 to 7 years ago (I'm guessing, time runs together for me) that saw a lot of companies stop using prop blends because so many educated customers turned against them.

There used to be a great thread on another forum - no use looking for the thread because it got taken down because it upset a lot of companies. To this day, its still one of my all time favorite threads. The person posting had access to a lot of industry pricing. He would first break down prop blends and detail what the dosages of everything in the prop blends should be so that you would see how short many came up in terms of what they would need to be versus what they were. Then he would give a cost estimate of what the product would be based on what it would cost if the product had in it the ideal dosages of ingredients. Then, he would detail how the blend was likely made up based on label sequence and what it would cost based off of that. It gave a great insight and you could see just how much some companies were saving and misleading by using prop blends.

I'm not saying that's why all companies do prop blends; each has their own reasons and have to make the decision that they feel like is best for them and their businesses.

In our case, we focus on providing efficaciously dosed products at cost effective products and want people to know the dosages of each ingredient that they're getting since they are dosed correctly.
Click to expand...

I have a friend who used to work for someone who owns a vey large company who has been in the game a long time He used to pay to have these blends tested and you would find out just how undersides they really are.

He competes and just says most things are marketing scams besides the stuff we know that works.

Some of the new natural anabolics do help a little. I think I get a leaner and dryer on letron.

I like a anabolic effect.

I have being buying anabolic effect and follidrone for a natty stack.
 
MikeSumthin said:
Well the next time you put up Androgin for 20% off, you better have 200 dump trucks full of it ready to drive to the post office...
Click to expand...
Yah man it keeps selling out so fast its been a real problem.
Particularly because alot of the product is custom extraction and synthesis. You cant just order this stuff.
Plus it takes a while to make ginsenosides and the cyclodextrin complexing takes a while.
We had to quadruple the first order volume on the second and the third.
 
ELROCK said:
I have used more bottles of Follidrone then any other supplement. In this instance, I couldn’t care less that it is a prop blend because it remains effective for me. I like epi-plex too and sometimes will add 1 cap epi-Plex with 1 cap follidrone pre-workout and the muscular endurance is great.
Click to expand...

What your experiences with Follidrone been like mate? I ask you as I believe your not a rep and value your opinion and just looking for some honest unbiased feedback.

Thanks!
 
AndroRage said:
What your experiences with Follidrone been like mate? I ask you as I believe your not a rep and value your opinion and just looking for some honest unbiased feedback.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

There are many logs/reviews on Follidrone in the Supplement Logs Section to. - (https://anabolicminds.com/community...=post&c[child_nodes]=1&c[nodes][0]=101&o=date) I'd recommend browsing there and read some feedback and results folks have gotten from it.

Also, there's a lot of good info about the product at Strong Supplement Shop as well. - (https://www.strongsupplementshop.com/follidrone-by-black-lion-research)
 
GQdaLEGEND said:
both awesome products in my opinion

Epi plex - straight -epi, no prop .. one bottle can be extended past 4 weeks

1st week - 1 cap .. and then follow 2 caps a day has been great

you can actually stack them ( i have done that with okay results, felt solo epi plex @ 600mg was better )
stacking you can do epi plex ( 1 bottle and extend it 8 weeks )

epi plex will enhance other stuff you throw in .. i love epi plex + anabolic effect
Click to expand...
How much mg of Epi are you getting per day for an 8 week bottle stretch? I feel like I may be able to extend one bottle quite a bit considering i'm pretty light.
 
ZOO said:
Personally, I would go with Epi-Plex. If not for the fact that Follidrone uses a prop blend. Prop blends are always a point of concern for me. I mean why have one?

Then also because someone brought up very interesting points regarding Androgin in another comparison thread. At the least I would say stack the two products so you know you’re getting an exact and adequate amount of Epi.
Click to expand...
What did you mean by “very interesting points regarding Androgin” ? (Deciding between Androgin/Epiplex/AE at the moment)
 
botk1161 said:
Use Apex Alchemy topical epi - it absolutely blows away any oral and any other topical.
Click to expand...
Epicatechin is extremely unstable. How are they preventing it from breaking down in solution? I mean....if you even put epi in water it will not be epi by 12 hours or so. Plus it's bioavailability is much better orally. And...isnt the dose 50mg? If you absorb the absolute max at about 10% your only getting 5mg.
 
TommyTuffGuy said:
DPS is out of Optimize and Epi, what's going on here! Any chance these are getting re-upped anywhere?
Click to expand...


dayum already out of stock .. here are couple sites in stock .. i know prices cant be compared to DPS .. boss man is dealing with physical injury and don't want to bother him with anything .. hopefully DPS has reached out and has put in an order.

https://www.strongsupplementshop.com/epi-plex-by-competitive-edge-labs-cel

https://www.strongsupplementshop.com/epi-plex-by-competitive-edge-labs-cel

https://www.strongsupplementshop.com/epi-plex-by-competitive-edge-labs-cel
 
GQdaLEGEND said:
dayum already out of stock .. here are couple sites in stock .. i know prices cant be compared to DPS .. boss man is dealing with physical injury and don't want to bother him with anything .. hopefully DPS has reached out and has put in an order.

https://www.strongsupplementshop.com/epi-plex-by-competitive-edge-labs-cel

https://www.strongsupplementshop.com/epi-plex-by-competitive-edge-labs-cel

https://www.strongsupplementshop.com/epi-plex-by-competitive-edge-labs-cel
Click to expand...

Thanks for this, did the two bottle combo of M-Test on DPS just now. Probably pick up Epi on one of your sites.
 
TommyTuffGuy said:
Thanks for this, did the two bottle combo of M-Test on DPS just now. Probably pick up Epi on one of your sites.
Click to expand...

\yup Mtest was just restocked yesterday .. posted it here > Invalid Link Removed
 
brundel said:
Epicatechin is extremely unstable. How are they preventing it from breaking down in solution? I mean....if you even put epi in water it will not be epi by 12 hours or so. Plus it's bioavailability is much better orally. And...isnt the dose 50mg? If you absorb the absolute max at about 10% your only getting 5mg.
Click to expand...


Interesting. So are you saying you don't think topical Epi works?
 
This is interesting. I was in a belief, that epicat had a better bioavailability via TD application, based on another discussion 🤔
 
Tunaking14 said:
Interesting. So are you saying you don't think topical Epi works?
Click to expand...
I'm saying that the chance there is epi left in solution after 12 hours is very low. After weeks or months on a shelf. 0.
But let's say there was some left...Best case scenario you will absorb around 10% meaning 5mg. Clinical studies showed an average of 200mg to be viable and oral bioavailability is drastically better.
 
brundel said:
I'm saying that the chance there is epi left in solution after 12 hours is very low. After weeks or months on a shelf. 0.
But let's say there was some left...Best case scenario you will absorb around 10% meaning 5mg. Clinical studies showed an average of 200mg to be viable and oral bioavailability is drastically better.
Click to expand...
Oral bioavailability testing has showed variable results but approx 25 to 30% bioavailability is average.
We have to keep in mind though that epicatechin is majorly effected by other factors.
These include
Take with food or without with fasting bring best.
Personal intestinal flora and fauna.
And genetic factors such as rates of gluconoridation and sulfation.

Which is why follidrone is recommended on an empty stomach and we have added specific ingredients to prevent metabolism via gluconoridation, sulfation etc.Invalid Link RemovedInvalid Link RemovedInvalid Link Removed
 
Show me a study that indicates you can get more than 10% of epicatechin via topical administration.

Also if you guys like I can put some raw epi into a beaker with some water and leave overnight so you can see it degrade into...well not epicatechin.

So in summation...
Let's say you take a clinical dose of 200mg orally. And you absorb 25%. =50mg.

And you take 50mg topically @approx 10%.
5mg.
Or 10x less.

And...with the bioavailability enhancement in follidrone you are getting much more than 25%

I think people are under the impression that anything can be used topically but this isnfar from true.
Only very specific types of compounds can be utilized this way.
Can't just toss whatever into a bottle.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top