Wife Has COVID-19

THOR 70

THOR 70

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If true, it should be the #1 main stream media talking point. Nuremberg trials #2. Anyone know any updates on this or did all these people commit suicide by now?

 
Dustin07

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Thank you! Yeah, I agree with a majority of that as well. I fully support alternative therapies (prophylactic or acute) and have added a few of those supplements into my own regimen despite being vaccinated. Truth be told, I don’t much like getting sick with anything period! Alternative pharmaceuticals could also use some evolution. It will be interesting to see how the antiviral pills coming out will be received. I haven’t researched them enough myself yet to form much of an opinion, but I anticipate there will still be hesitation to those as well. I’m sure there already is ;)

The problem is that there are still far too many people who are obviously at high risk that don’t get vaccinated, and you know they aren’t all that invested in taking supplements or other means to optimize their state of health. When they end up in the hospital with COVID, they monopolize an immense amount of resources that makes all hospital staff and the general patient population suffer the consequences. It’s not just about them and their choice as it does have a large impact on others. To say we are tired is an understatement and I can’t even put it into words. I feel very trapped in my job (some of which are personal reasons), and I am very much suffering.

Yesterday was a terrible day at work and while I am off today, I haven’t had any appetite and can’t even bring myself to workout- which is something I love. The following is a quote from a non healthcare worker that I believe came from Twitter:

“I can’t imagine how infuriating it must be to be a doctor/healthcare worker in a society where people don't trust you enough to listen to you but trust you enough to feel entitled to your care when their poor choices inevitably land them to the ICU.”

While that may sound harsh, that’s the reality we have to struggle with..
I'm with you man. Mentally I'm stronger because I do trust my natural immunity now about 99%. I can say I have felt healthier from March until Now, then I did in all of 2020. I think I had COVID about once a week, or more, during all of 2020 until I actually did get it in March (LOL). Now that I have had it, and have seen it seemingly (can't prove it) protect me in exposure settings, my mental state is far better and I think thats a big part of why I'm so healthy at the moment. BUT my wife and I, like you, are still big on every immunity boosting vitamin we can take, especially in the winter (NOW) as we prepare for vacations etc...

just think if trump were still president 1st line workers including healthcare workers would still be on the job, and if understaffed he would have brought in national guard healthcare workers like he did before...why the hell biden isn't utilizing the national guard if hospitals are being OVER-RUN is what EVERYONE should be asking.:mad:

didn't biden get elected by promising to do better handling the virus than trump...FAIL
Honestly, I think is Trump were president there would be no discussion of vaccine mandates and many of the people who refuse to get the vax would probably feel more comfortable getting it if it wasn't forced on them by govt. People are right to mistrust the govt, IMO. But definitely a lot of people would likely have gotten the shot if it wasn't being shoved down their throat. Conversely, less young people probably would get it and my theory is still that those young people then would get covid, recover fast, and encourage herd immunity.

Like Ricky said, I see the same trend. Many of the people who are in my camp are not as healthy as us. They choose not to get the vaccine, which I support, but are not doing anything else to make themselves healthier either. Although I can say the same for a lot of the vaccinated individuals I know as well I guess.
 
poison

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'ppsd'

'yes we have reached the point where we just make **** up to cover our mistakes'

pre-vax - any negative sides = long covid

post-vax - any negative sides 'ppsd'

negatives are NEVER the fault of the CV response.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/health/post-pandemic-stress-disorder-heart-conditions-covid-london-physicians-b969436.html

Up to 300,000 people facing heart-related illnesses due to post-pandemic stress disorder, warn physicians

p to 300,000 people in the UK are facing heart-related illnesses due to post-pandemic stress disorder (PPSD), two London physicians have warned.

This could result in a 4.5 per cent rise in cardiovascular cases nationally because of the effects of PPSD, with those aged between 30 to 45 most at-risk, they claim.

Mark Rayner, a former senior NHS psychological therapist and founder of EASE Wellbeing CIC, said that as many as three million people in Britain are already suffering from PPSD, thanks to stress and anxiety caused by the effects of Covid-19.

He fears this could result in a dramatic rise in physical health issues, such as coronary heart failure, if cases are not detected or treated early.

Mr Rayner said: "PPSD is a very real problem on a massive scale. As well as the condition itself with all its immediate problems, one of the biggest collateral issues is the affect it can have on heart health.

"It is widely recognised that reducing stress and mental health problems is crucial to the prevention and recovery of cardiovascular events such as heart attacks and strokes.

"We are talking about as many as 300,000 new patients with heart issues
."

Mr Rayner warned that without at least doubling the current funding, the NHS will not be able to tackle the "trauma timebomb", which could have potentially fatal consequences for those suffering with long-term PPSD.

Meanwhile, Tahir Hussain, a senior vascular surgeon at Northwick Park Hospital in Harrow, said he has seen a significant rise in cases where he works.

He said: "I've seen a big increase in thrombotic-related vascular conditions in my practice. Far younger patients are being admitted and requiring surgical and medical intervention than prior to the pandemic.

"I believe many of these cases are a direct result of the increased stress and anxiety levels caused from the effects of PPSD.

"We also have evidence that some patients have died at home from conditions such as pulmonary embolism and myocardial infarction. I believe this is related to many people self-isolating at home with no contact with the outside world and dying without getting the help they needed."

PPSD is a mental health condition induced by the pandemic. While it is not yet officially recognised, many experts believe it should be.

Mr Rayner added: "Everyone has heard of PTSD but we really urgently need to get our heads around PPSD.

"The pandemic and the resulting lockdowns it's brought have had a massive effect on the mental health of the whole nation."

Research suggests that patients with symptoms of depression are at 64 per cent greater risk of developing coronary artery disease and 59 per cent more likely to have a future adverse cardiovascular event, such as a heart attack or cardiac death.

Heart and circulatory diseases account for a quarter of all deaths in the UK - equating to more than 160,000 deaths each year.

Figures show there are around 7.6 million people living with a heart or circulatory disease in the UK.
There's absolutely no way the vaccines have anything to do with that. Nope. Why bother even investigating it?
 
GreenMachineX

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Update: Last night sleeping went OK. Ended up totaling 10mg melatonin and totaled 8-9 hours I think. I woke up sweating once or twice, felt chilled most of the time, but did not have any violent shaking chills at all! As of this morning though, my resting pulse is down to low 90's to even high 80's.. It was over 100 to 110 at times. I think sitting in the doctor chair was 110. So 10-15 points lower. Praise God! We've been praying for miraculous healing, and I believe it's happening.
 
Dustin07

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I'm starting to think they want us to all vaccinate so there's no more control group for long term effects
I think money plays a huge roll in everything going on. Although I keep seeing new reports on all the illnesses you'll likely experience this winter due to cold temperatures and climate change, and they all match vax side effects.

Update: Last night sleeping went OK. Ended up totaling 10mg melatonin and totaled 8-9 hours I think. I woke up sweating once or twice, felt chilled most of the time, but did not have any violent shaking chills at all! As of this morning though, my resting pulse is down to low 90's to even high 80's.. It was over 100 to 110 at times. I think sitting in the doctor chair was 110. So 10-15 points lower. Praise God! We've been praying for miraculous healing, and I believe it's happening.
That's great man! If you have IVM on monday you'll probably be 100% on Tuesday :D Stay positive! hang out and watch Outbreak haha
 
Dustin07

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Funny you speak about people needing to be "vaccinated". Funny how this "omicron variant" was discovered in south africa yet it's all over the world but the only people who are allowed to travel are the vaccinated or ones who tested negative on a PCR test so it looks like you're the problem. Covid is the biggest hoax of the century. Stop peddling your bullshyt
I don't disagree with anything you've been saying at all. In fact, you talk like I do when I'm having this discussion with my mom, although she tells me I need to soften my presentation (my wife says it too, lol. They say they agree with me but I'm too blunt/harsh). I tell her facts don't care about feelings haha. she rolls her eyes. That said, I've been watching this thread for some time and I do believe Ricky has been great to share perspectives from two angles that I can't get an honest perspective from:

A. a vaccinated individual who doesn't believe in mandates
B. a healthcare worker who has been in the **** for the full pandemic, is vaccinated, has been swamped with bodies, and yet still feels I deserve the right to not inject myself.

For that, I really appreciate his contributions to this thread and his candor.

BTW the Omicron variant was discovered in South Africa the day after S Africa told Pfizer it wants to return all its unused vaccines because they don't need or want them.
 
rob112

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Come on guys let’s not do personally attacks. This is one of the few places where we keep it civil even in disagreeing. I’m not saying any one person as I seen it happen both ways…I would just hate for this to degenerate to what the rest of the internet is. I also don’t want any contributors to stop posting because all of these points of views are valuable in my opinion.

I know I know “ef this rob dude and the gay horse he rode in on.” Not that there’s anything wrong with that!(seinfeld reference) haha
 
Dustin07

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Come on guys let’s not do personally attacks. This is one of the few places where we keep it civil even in disagreeing. I’m not saying any one person as I seen it happen both ways…I would just hate for this to degenerate to what the rest of the internet is. I also don’t want any contributors to stop posting because all of these points of views are valuable in my opinion.

I know I know “ef this rob dude and the gay horse he rode in on.” Not that there’s anything wrong with that!(seinfeld reference) haha
Oh are you from Washington too?
 
Kronic

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that was my home town and I remember guys in another forum from Australia posting new articles about it and I was like.......****.
there was a high School football team in the same league as my school that got caught having sex with goats I think. could have been Idaho tho I think
 
Hyde

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Update: Last night sleeping went OK. Ended up totaling 10mg melatonin and totaled 8-9 hours I think. I woke up sweating once or twice, felt chilled most of the time, but did not have any violent shaking chills at all! As of this morning though, my resting pulse is down to low 90's to even high 80's.. It was over 100 to 110 at times. I think sitting in the doctor chair was 110. So 10-15 points lower. Praise God! We've been praying for miraculous healing, and I believe it's happening.
Great to hear. You are going to be just fine in the end, brother. Know it, accept it, and relax. If you find yourself getting anxious or pulse creeping up, spend some time reading from Psalms with a warm drink.
 
GreenMachineX

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Great to hear. You are going to be just fine in the end, brother. Know it, accept it, and relax. If you find yourself getting anxious or pulse creeping up, spend some time reading from Psalms with a warm drink.
Yeah, I was wrong. Pulse and temperature are climbing back up. Ugh.
 
Dustin07

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Any idea the dose used?
Unfortunately no, but here is an article

These data indicate that insufficient vitamin D intake may be common. But, keep in mind that there is no consensus about what vitamin D concentrations should be maintained when used in COVID-19. The 25(OH)D serum concentration assay, which best reflects the body's vitamin D status, is readily available and can be used to help individuals decide whether a vitamin D supplement is appropriate for them.
Vitamin D's Tolerable Upper Intake Level (UL), which is the maximum daily intake unlikely to cause adverse health effects, is 4,000 IU per day. Some health groups recommend taking from 800 to 2,000 IU per day but some clinicians recommend higher doses such as a 5,000 IU OTC capsule or even 10,000 IU per day without symptoms of toxicity.3 , 4
looking at the D I have here at my office the serving size is 1000IU, so I guess it would be up to 4 of those per day.
 
Punkrocker

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Anyone who spreads covid bullshyt is supporting this brutal virus regime and I hate you with every fiber of my being and WE THE PEOPLE will fucking resist you bastards until death
 
HIT4ME

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OK, here goes....

Not sure if you’re questioning the legitimacy or just needed help...I’m happy to help tho:
I always question legitimacy, methods, etc. Or at least try to. I'm a skeptic. Not skeptical of you at all, but I don't like basic complex decisions on Twitter, Facebook, or even news outlets. I don't want my decision to be based on someone else's interpretation of another person's observations. If I cannot observe it myself, I want to at least observe directly what the actual observer saw, and not what a reporter says they saw.

And, yes, I needed help.

So thanks on both accounts :)

too bad they waited so long.

the liver is the bodies cleanser, i would think you would want it working at full capacity...i've heard people mention NAC as beneficial for covid, i am just a layman but i can see where NAC's role in detoxification would be of major benefit when fighting a virus.

why would doctors recommend something that diminishes the liver from working at full capacity like tylenol, without also recommending/prescribing something along with it to protect the liver? i mean doctors often prescribe or recommend a blood thinner/antacid or laxative along with certain drugs, why not a liver protectant when recommending tylenol? i mean they should at very least recommend something to protect liver along with recommending/prescribing tylenol. every doctor should be aware of NAC's benefits to liver and if they don't SHAME ON THEM.
I feel like a lot of people are oversimplifying NAC's role in the liver. It isn't directly for liver health. Cysteine is necessary for the creation of glutathione - which your liver creates - and glutathione is necessary as a reducing agent in many of the processes your liver uses to neutralize toxic compounds passing through your system. It is also used throughout your body as a powerful antioxidant. Glutathione doesn't improve the health of your liver directly per se, but a lack of glutathione will make it more difficult to remove toxins.

This is why it is so effective in acetaminophen poisoning. Acetaminophen is broken down into N-acetyl-p-benzoquinone imine (NAPQI) in the liver, which is highly toxic. Glutathione conjugates and neutralizes the NAPQI, allowing for excretion without toxicity.

If you run out of glutathione, NAPQI builds up in the system because you cannot excrete it (again, it's toxic).

Cysteine is the rate limiting factor in the creation of glutathione so providing more of this substrate will usually be all that is needed to avoid the situation.

While there is very little, if any, evidence that NAC can prevent liver damage prophylactically - it is certainly accepted as the antidote to Tylenol toxicity. Despite being relatively common knowledge among many of us, and even listed on the acetaminophen wikipedia page as an antidote - you would be suprised at how many doctors have never heard of it as treatment for the liver.

If you are malnourished (and thus have less availability of amino acids including cysteine) - you will be more at risk of tylenol toxicity.

Long term use of tylenol, even at lower doses, in theory could deplete glutathione levels and cause issues - although this evidence is somewhat lacking and I have had doctors flat out deny it as a possibility. My grandmother was a case of this - her doctor had her on 3 grams a day of tylenol and insisted it wasn't an issue because 4 grams was the limit - even when she was on it for over a year. I explained the MOA and how it would eventually cause liver failure. No one listened. And yes, she died of liver failure. Although, if I apply anti-covid truthers, she died WITH liver failure because she was going to die anyway at 92.

Ultimately, for someone under 60 years old, who is well nourished and healthy - taking less than 4 grams/day for less than 6 months will be pretty safe.

If you need long term treatment with this stuff...options are limited of course. You can switch between Tylenol and Ibuprofen - one gets your liver, the other gets your kidneys.

None of this is medical advice; but you can find it on wikipedia even.
 
HIT4ME

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Thank you! Yeah, I agree with a majority of that as well. I fully support alternative therapies (prophylactic or acute) and have added a few of those supplements into my own regimen despite being vaccinated. Truth be told, I don’t much like getting sick with anything period! Alternative pharmaceuticals could also use some evolution. It will be interesting to see how the antiviral pills coming out will be received. I haven’t researched them enough myself yet to form much of an opinion, but I anticipate there will still be hesitation to those as well. I’m sure there already is ;)

The problem is that there are still far too many people who are obviously at high risk that don’t get vaccinated, and you know they aren’t all that invested in taking supplements or other means to optimize their state of health. When they end up in the hospital with COVID, they monopolize an immense amount of resources that makes all hospital staff and the general patient population suffer the consequences. It’s not just about them and their choice as it does have a large impact on others. To say we are tired is an understatement and I can’t even put it into words. I feel very trapped in my job (some of which are personal reasons), and I am very much suffering.

Yesterday was a terrible day at work and while I am off today, I haven’t had any appetite and can’t even bring myself to workout- which is something I love. The following is a quote from a non healthcare worker that I believe came from Twitter:

“I can’t imagine how infuriating it must be to be a doctor/healthcare worker in a society where people don't trust you enough to listen to you but trust you enough to feel entitled to your care when their poor choices inevitably land them to the ICU.”

While that may sound harsh, that’s the reality we have to struggle with..
Ricky, thanks for all that you do and I am sorry you are going through so much. If we accept that the vaccine keeps people from getting sick; then I can see there is little need to argue with you - you are suffering when it isn't necessary. All people need to do is listen.

My issue is - more people in this country ARE vaccinated than are not vaccinated - and the death rate is higher this year than before we had the vaccines. Does it mean vaccines are 0% effective? Nope. Does it mean they are possibly much less effective than we were led to believe? I find it hard to argue otherwise, even when accounting for reduced stringency of protocols, such as mask wearing and 6 ft. rules, etc.

I just don't think the current run of vaccines have all the answers, we need to do better (for your sake and everyone else's) and ignoring the data and reality, and hoping that the vaccines are the answer, hasn't worked out so well this year. We just need to do better.

Your quote at the end though, I hear loud and clear. I am in sales and whenever I have to help someone else learn how to sell things, I always tell them to remember, "The people who need your help the most, recognize it the least. The people who need your help the least, appreciate it the most."

It's just human nature - if we don't understand what is involved in accomplishing a task, usually because we've never experienced the hardship of doing it, we can't appreciate when someone else does it for us.

Some serious arrogance in that quote. Healthcare workers are not gods, they're fallible men, many times with incomplete knowledge, opinions, and biases, who largely seem to have forgotten that they are EMPLOYED to SERVE, and help a patient navigate options to find the best one for the patient, taking into account their goals, needs, and desires, instead of attempting to bully them into silently acquiescing to whatever treatment the health care worker has been taught is best, outright instructed to administer, or paid to recommend.

There is no disconnect between saying both 'I trust you to do an organ transplant', and also 'I don't believe you are correct in saying my only options are vax or die, so I prefer not to take the covid vax'. It's perfectly possible for a good doctor to be wrong, and a patient to be right, and I utterly reject the idea that the two are incompatible. Doctors are barely educated enough to make judgements about the vax; every health care worker beneath dr's are even less so. A nurse has 0 insight into the truth of the vax over what I have, and their recommendation means nothing in that regard.

And BTW, every profession has its up's and down's. Yours is in the hot seat now; tomorrow it may be mine (actually mine is every day, you just don't read about it, and I don't bitch about it, but in my case, the hot seat means I may get shot). Teachers and some health care workers cut and run awfully quick over covid, but wtf did they think? You'll never see a pandemic, never experience an influx of work? That teachers won't be around sick kids?

While that may sound harsh, that’s the reality EVERYONE has to struggle with, at one time or another.
OK, I agree with parts of this, but will focus on a couple of disagreements.

1. I don't think Ricky is being arrogant at all. He's trying to do something for other people, and serving them, and begging them to do what is necessary to avoid needing his help. He is basically saying, if you want to avoid seeing me, the best way to do that (in his opinion) is to get vaccinated. At least that's what I believe he is saying. Could he be wrong about that? Sure, but he's at ground zero and giving his view of the land.

If you get shot at, surely you understand the difference of being at ground zero and begging for other people to do what you need, so you can do what you need to do to help them?

2. I think the reason a lot of healthcare workers quit is because they cannot effectively do their jobs...because healthcare has become about protocols and insurance rules, etc. - not about helping others.

Beyond that, while I don't agree with the fervor of some of your statements...I mostly agree. I think Ricky might too but I cannot speak for him of course.
 
HIT4ME

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Just because someone develops a new medical condition or dies in close proximity to receiving a vaccine does not necessarily mean it was caused by said vaccine. But you know that. Have there been such instances that can be attributed to the vaccine? Probably. However, that doesn’t mean that the benefits don’t outweigh the risks for the majority of population.

The vaccine effectiveness percentages were based upon the original strain. Regardless, it’s actually quite remarkable that it has still managed to be very effective at keeping people out of the ICU and off ventilators.

Yes, of course it is a shame that natural immunity isn’t given due credit.

I deal with all these people, but thanks for your enlightening numbers. I will be sure to share them at work tomorrow ;). It’s much harder and takes much longer for patients to make lifestyle changes than it is for patients to roll up their sleeve for less than a minute. We are still facing an acute situation here.

Since I don’t believe you have any experience working in a hospital with COVID patients, it comes as no surprise that you would have no idea how extensive the care demands are in treating critical COVID patients. Just one COVID patient on a ventilator is the equivalent of having about 4 patients (at least) who are intubated for airway protection from an overdose. On top of that, factor in all the changing of PPE, disinfection of equipment, trips to MRI and/or CT, and then disinfecting those entire rooms and not being able to use them again until the air exchanges after 2 hours. The time spent by ALL disciplines is exponentially increased. People have no idea..

Never seen anything even close to that in my 10 years of being an RT in regard to influenza. Nope..

Yeah, it’s all about bullying for sure. It couldn’t be because it continues to keep people from getting critically ill as I said above. Nah….nothing to do with that..

Navigating options, goals of care, and desires? We aren’t talking about hospice plans for a cancer patient here, this is a pandemic called COVID-19. Nonetheless, many cases do end up as a hospice scenario but I don’t think that is what you meant.

Sure, I guess some people would rather opt to not get a vaccine in some instances when they feel it is futile. We recently had a COVID patient admitted who also had a fairly recent diagnosis of ALS. He had decided to not get vaccinated but ended up agreeing to be admitted to the hospital due to hypoxia (shocking). However, he was a DNR/DNI and refused all care upon being admitted. I think he wanted to go through a quicker death as opposed to the grueling future that was ahead of him. He got his wish.

If people would like to label us in the healthcare field as having incomplete knowledge that’s fine. I repeat, that they are more than welcome to stay home when they can’t breathe. It’s definitely their choice to make.


Not exactly. What we didn’t expect was to not be supported and compensated by our employers for the increased work demands, uncomfortable working environment, and severely limited staff that makes it impossible to take care of all the patients they keep accepting.
Just calling out the bold part - do you really believe they vaccines have helped prevent people from getting to the ICU? It seems like, while half of the nation (or 70%) has become vaccinated - you are at ground zero seeing an increase and still holding onto hope that, "All we need is for more people to get vaccinated".

You may be right, I don't know. It just seems wishful to me. Of course I respect you and your experience and you continued service to help others.

Also, I would point out that the idea behind the mRNA vax is that it doesn't protect against Covid-19 - it protects against the spike protein needed to enter the cell. IF it were successful, given that MOA - shouldn't it protect against any virus using that spike protein? And thus anything that hasn't mutated pretty dramatically from the original covid-19, should still see some protection?

This does not seem to be the case, and is being glossed over - but it is a clear failure of the platform. It doesn't work as intended.

I found this quote pulled from one website:
Acetaminophen (Tylenol) -- High doses of vitamin C may lower the amount of acetaminophen passed in urine, which could cause the levels of this drug in your blood to rise.

I've also found more recent pubmed studies that ascorbic acid protects against tylenol toxicity.

I've only taken a total of 2g the past 24 hours and is been almost 24 hours from the first dose. Should I just not use tylenol anymore at all? If I did some damage, would I know by now?

@HIT4ME @Hyde @Ricky10
Again, you should be fine with the tylenol for a while. Make sure you eat enough. Adding in NAC may also help provide some protection for this (again not necessarily proven).
 
HIT4ME

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Let's talk risk. Risk isn't spread evenly across the population; some have little risk, others exponentially moreso. WE've known since March 2020 pretty precisely who was at risk, and who wasn't, but instead of taking that into account, those in charge of this, and your post, spread the risk evenly in an attempt to imply everyone is better off vaxxing.

This is bullshit. If saving lives were actually the goal of the pandemic response, healthy 30yo's wouldn't be hammering 3 doses, and 12yo's wouldn't be taking 2. Instead, those doses would go to those truly at risk around the globe, but whatever, **** them right? (I'm referring to the response and those in charge, not you, on that)



Yeah, about that: you can see the absurdity of a mandate for a vaccine designed for a variant from many mutations ago, right? One that isn't even that effective, doesnt stop the spread, etc?



I don't know what hospital you're at, but no, the US hospital system is not overwhelmed by covid, not even close:

Weekly Hospitalization Trends - Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center (jhu.edu)

The glibness with which you say 'it just takes a minute', wow. When my daughters school mandated vaccines, I email the dipshit administrator and asked straight out: If I agree to vaccinate my daughter, will you personally, along with the school, take responsibility for any negative side effects from the vax? Would you, ricky?

I know the answer. But I'm expected to Just Do it, without consideration of evidence or facts or science....which doesn't support the vaccination of healthy teens.



Again, only around 15% of inpatient capacity across the US is from covid; we have the ability to set up overflow facilities and US naval ships, but at no point during this has any of that been used or needed, and it's unlikely this winter will be different. If you're overworked and overwhelmed, it's not covid, it's your leadership, be it at the hospital level, or country level.

But if it is different this winter, with 2 years of covid experience, and 3 vaccines available, it won't point to vaccine effectiveness, at all,but the opposite.



That doesn't even stand up to minimal scrutiny: why are they trying to force people with natural immunity to vax, or healthy 5yo's? That is definitively bullying, and anti-science. It's wrong.



Are you really implying a patient's health is not their choice?



'ACCEPT OUR RULE, OR STAY HOME'

Nah. Again, since you apparently won't apply that same standard to obesity or drug use, I won't buy it here either.

And keep in mind it was your profession that killed thousands of people early on by intubating unnecessarily, so acting like you have a lock on what's right for everyone is just arrogant. In the same vein, big pharma has killed hundreds of thousands with FDA support and approval.

It's essential to question, our lives do depend on it sometimes.



That's unfortunate. My job brings me in contact with nurses from ucla and cedars Sinai regularly, and they report high earnings and loads of high paying job offers nationwide. Maybe you could look into it.

I appreciate what you do. I just wish it came without the side of 'my way or no way'.
You have a few pretty logical arguments in here, IMO, so I am mostly in agreement. But I would say that - I see things differently. I think that if the hospitals are being overwhelmed right now - well, it's really a mark against the vaccines.

Does anyone really think we will have 100% compliance? Are these vaccines only effective with 100% compliance? It's ridiculous to just keep saying - "We need more vaccination!"

We needed vaccines, it didn't prevent hospitalizations or deaths. So we called for more. Biden had his 100 day goal and hit it. It didn't even put a dent in the numbers. So, the answer is, "We need to do exactly what we are doing, but more of it!!"

And you are right - if the vaccine is effective at protecting you from infection then we do not need a mandate. Either you get it or you don't.

Your argument of smokers is a good example - that I would use "against" you in a way. Smokers can choose to smoke, people cannot necessarily choose whether or not they get covid. However, if vaccines are effective - they suddenly DO have a choice - so no need for mandates at all. It's your choice. Get it or don't. Get sick or get vaccinated. Your call.

And then I may be all for, "It's your choice but stay home." premise. It's your choice if you smoke, but if you get lung cancer it's on you. It's your choice if you don't want to get vaccinated, but if you get Covid, it's on you.

Like you say, it's reality and we all have to navigate it.

Yeah ok sheep. You are so full of crap it's unbelievable. The united states government even admitted on live television that they are counting all secondary deaths as "covid". Any kind of death that includes pneumonia goes down as covid. Any kind of death that has similar symptoms as covid is considered covid. Not to mention all the page offs the hospitals are getting. How about back in April 2020 at the height of the "pandemic" where people were filming their local emergency rooms and all the tents that were built and literally nobody was there yet there was nurses pumping out tiktok videos. You are a complete idiot and are a tool for this evil system that has enslaved the population. No go get vaxxed because you DEFINITELY deserve to be
It's very insulting for you to pretend that anyone who actually believes the Covid-19 is a real threat is a "sheep". I find it even worse that you are so ignorant as to call it "only the flu" in a thread where one of our long-time members has passed away. Show me a single thread on this board that has someone dying from "the flu".

The flu isn't even comparable to Covid and if you need to make that part of your argument, you should really read up on some facts. There are far more level-headed, facts-based and reasonable arguments to make.

Or do you just like getting a rise out of people by making outlandish statements?

The only thing that brings joy to my heart is knowing that the vaccine is literally an experimental gene therapy that's gonna kill alot of people, specifically the scumbags who are shilling this hoax which is taking away the rights and freedoms all over the western world. It brings be joy to know that you'll all get what you deserve due to your ignorance and blind trust in this beast system
Again, I'm not "pro-vaccine" nor "anti-vaccine" but...come on...are you still on the "gene therapy" thing? While stating you inject anabolic steroids? You do realize that tren has been shown to ACTUALLY modify gene mRNA expression in various tissues - making it more of a gene therapy than the vaccine you are so afraid of, right?


I'm with you man. Mentally I'm stronger because I do trust my natural immunity now about 99%. I can say I have felt healthier from March until Now, then I did in all of 2020. I think I had COVID about once a week, or more, during all of 2020 until I actually did get it in March (LOL). Now that I have had it, and have seen it seemingly (can't prove it) protect me in exposure settings, my mental state is far better and I think thats a big part of why I'm so healthy at the moment. BUT my wife and I, like you, are still big on every immunity boosting vitamin we can take, especially in the winter (NOW) as we prepare for vacations etc...



Honestly, I think is Trump were president there would be no discussion of vaccine mandates and many of the people who refuse to get the vax would probably feel more comfortable getting it if it wasn't forced on them by govt. People are right to mistrust the govt, IMO. But definitely a lot of people would likely have gotten the shot if it wasn't being shoved down their throat. Conversely, less young people probably would get it and my theory is still that those young people then would get covid, recover fast, and encourage herd immunity.

Like Ricky said, I see the same trend. Many of the people who are in my camp are not as healthy as us. They choose not to get the vaccine, which I support, but are not doing anything else to make themselves healthier either. Although I can say the same for a lot of the vaccinated individuals I know as well I guess.
This is very true - I think that if the "mandate" and "we know better than everyone and if anyone disagrees they are stupid and lack our sense of morality" were taken out of it, more people would just try to do what they can to protect themselves.

'ppsd'

'yes we have reached the point where we just make **** up to cover our mistakes'

pre-vax - any negative sides = long covid

post-vax - any negative sides 'ppsd'

negatives are NEVER the fault of the CV response.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/health/post-pandemic-stress-disorder-heart-conditions-covid-london-physicians-b969436.html



There's absolutely no way the vaccines have anything to do with that. Nope. Why bother even investigating it?
I agree with this - this is my major issue. It IS arrogant to refuse that we may not have it right yet and there may be issues. And I do see a lot of people, including doctors, afraid to admit it may not be working and there may be downsides.
 
HIT4ME

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Unfortunately no, but here is an article



looking at the D I have here at my office the serving size is 1000IU, so I guess it would be up to 4 of those per day.
I really think 4,000 iu is the minimum. I take 10,000 IU and usually recommend 5-10k.

Science? It's questionable, sure. But take 10,000 iu for a year and get your levels checked and see if you're in range. I have yet to find anyone doing this that was over range.
 
poison

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And then I may be all for, "It's your choice but stay home." premise. It's your choice if you smoke, but if you get lung cancer it's on you. It's your choice if you don't want to get vaccinated, but if you get Covid, it's on you.

Like you say, it's reality and we all have to navigate it.
To clarify, I was implying that I'm not on board with ricky's 'do what you want, but don't come to me if you have a problem' attitude because he doesn't apply that to smokers, the obese, and drug users. In saying that, you could assume I'd be OK with it if he applied it evenly; but no, I'm not a fan of doing that in ANY case. Why?

Well, take smoking: I think you're an idiot if you smoke. So, in refusing treatment for a smoker, I would be essentially refusing treatment based on intellect, and that is wrong. In the case of obesity, I would be refusing treatment based on some personal weakness or lack of willpower. In the case of covid vaccines, ricky would refuse treatment because he thinks they're stupid.

We don't legislate or punish intellect or personal weakness in this country. It's not OK to do so; doing so is the height of arrogance. 'You're not as good as me so I won't help you'

People need to get back to reading the Bible, maybe following Jesus.....and that's coming from a damn Jew. Whatever happened to helping strangers, the downtrodden, the less fortunate? Hippocrates said something about that:

"I swear to fulfill, to the best of my ability and judgment, this covenant:
I will respect the hard-won scientific gains of those physicians in whose steps I walk, and gladly share such knowledge as is mine with those who are to follow.
I will apply, for the benefit of the sick, all measures [that] are required, avoiding those twin traps of overtreatment and therapeutic nihilism.
I will remember that there is art to medicine as well as science, and that warmth, sympathy, and understanding may outweigh the surgeon's knife or the chemist's drug.
I will not be ashamed to say "I know not,
" nor will I fail to call in my colleagues when the skills of another are needed for a patient's recovery.
I will respect the privacy of my patients, for their problems are not disclosed to me that the world may know.
Most especially must I tread with care in matters of life and death. If it is given me to save a life, all thanks. But it may also be within my power to take a life; this awesome responsibility must be faced with great humbleness and awareness of my own frailty.
Above all, I must not play at God.
I will remember that I do not treat a fever chart, a cancerous growth, but a sick human being, whose illness may affect the person's family and economic stability. My responsibility includes these related problems, if I am to care adequately for the sick.
I will prevent disease whenever I can, for prevention is preferable to cure.
I will remember that I remain a member of society, with special obligations to all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm.
If I do not violate this oath, may I enjoy life and art, respected while I live and remembered with affection thereafter.
May I always act so as to preserve the finest traditions of my calling and may I long experience the joy of healing those who seek my help."
 
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Kronic

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my friend currently deciding if he should get a vaccine or lose his job. don't you guys think an aspirated j&j vaccine is the safest cuz it's not Gene therapy? or would a lawyer be able to help?
 
poison

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my friend currently deciding if he should get a vaccine or lose his job. don't you guys think an aspirated j&j vaccine is the safest cuz it's not Gene therapy? or would a lawyer be able to help?
Get an exemption.
 
mechka_grizli

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To clarify, I was implying that I'm not on board with ricky's 'do what you want, but don't come to me if you have a problem' attitude because he doesn't apply that to smokers, the obese, and drug users. In saying that, you could assume I'd be OK with it if he applied it evenly; but no, I'm not a fan of doing that in ANY case. Why?

Well, take smoking: I think you're an idiot if you smoke. So, in refusing treatment for a smoker, I would be essentially refusing treatment based on intellect, and that is wrong. In the case of obesity, I would be refusing treatment based on some personal weakness or lack of willpower. In the case of covid vaccines, ricky would refuse treatment because he thinks they're stupid.

We don't legislate or punish intellect or personal weakness in this country. It's not OK to do so; doing so is the height of arrogance. 'You're not as good as me so I won't help you'

People need to get back to reading the Bible, maybe following Jesus.....and that's coming from a damn Jew. Whatever happened to helping strangers, the downtrodden, the less fortunate? Hippocrates said something about that:

"I swear to fulfill, to the best of my ability and judgment, this covenant:
I will respect the hard-won scientific gains of those physicians in whose steps I walk, and gladly share such knowledge as is mine with those who are to follow.
I will apply, for the benefit of the sick, all measures [that] are required, avoiding those twin traps of overtreatment and therapeutic nihilism.
I will remember that there is art to medicine as well as science, and that warmth, sympathy, and understanding may outweigh the surgeon's knife or the chemist's drug.
I will not be ashamed to say "I know not,
" nor will I fail to call in my colleagues when the skills of another are needed for a patient's recovery.
I will respect the privacy of my patients, for their problems are not disclosed to me that the world may know.
Most especially must I tread with care in matters of life and death. If it is given me to save a life, all thanks. But it may also be within my power to take a life; this awesome responsibility must be faced with great humbleness and awareness of my own frailty.
Above all, I must not play at God.
I will remember that I do not treat a fever chart, a cancerous growth, but a sick human being, whose illness may affect the person's family and economic stability. My responsibility includes these related problems, if I am to care adequately for the sick.
I will prevent disease whenever I can, for prevention is preferable to cure.
I will remember that I remain a member of society, with special obligations to all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm.
If I do not violate this oath, may I enjoy life and art, respected while I live and remembered with affection thereafter.
May I always act so as to preserve the finest traditions of my calling and may I long experience the joy of healing those who seek my help."
I think the difference in this scenario is that smokers, drinkers, and even the obese are aware of the dangers their habits have. An extraordinary amount of people who are unvaccinated completely downplay the risks, saying its the flu or just the common cold, call people sheep for believing the virus is deadly, and then want help when they catch it and have severe symptoms.
 
poison

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I think the difference in this scenario is that smokers, drinkers, and even the obese are aware of the dangers their habits have. An extraordinary amount of people who are unvaccinated completely downplay the risks, saying its the flu or just the common cold, call people sheep for believing the virus is deadly, and then want help when they catch it and have severe symptoms.
No, there is no blanket reasoning behind those decisions. Intellect, education and will power vary wildly between people. Do you really think people don't downplay or make wild justifications for smoking 2 packs a day, or eating twinkies and big macs for breakfast, lunch, and dinner? And are you saying those who downplay covid really don't believe what they're saying?

It's interesting to me that this is even a conversation. I doubt Ricky would refuse treatment for a bank robber who is brought in shot, or an attempted terrorist who was injured during arrest, but some of you want to refuse treatment to good Americans who don't believe the tsunami of bullshit they've been fed, and rightly so, if they make the wrong choice?

How about this: if the vax turns out to be super deadly, we will refuse treatment to you. Hey, dipshit, you made the wrong choice, bought into the wrong propaganda! Suck it up, sit there, let it bleed! 🙄 You down?

I didn't think so.
 
mechka_grizli

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No, there is no blanket reasoning behind those decisions. Intellect, education and will power vary wildly between people. Do you really think people don't downplay or make wild justifications for smoking 2 packs a day, or eating twinkies and big macs for breakfast, lunch, and dinner? And are you saying those who downplay covid really don't believe what they're saying?

It's interesting to me that this is even a conversation. I doubt Ricky would refuse treatment for a bank robber who is brought in shot, or an attempted terrorist who was injured during arrest, but some of you want to refuse treatment to good Americans who don't believe the tsunami of bullshit they've been fed, and rightly so, if they make the wrong choice?

How about this: if the vax turns out to be super deadly, we will refuse treatment to you. Hey, dipshit, you made the wrong choice, bought into the wrong propaganda! Suck it up, sit there, let it bleed! You down?

I didn't think so.
again bank robbers and terrorist KNOW the risks of what their doing. As does smokers and drinkers. The people im referring to are those who completely deny that their is any risk from Covid. Like dying isnt an option. They call it the flu or a cold, and live their life as such. There is a big difference between the two. You can disagree with how the **** is being handled but the virus is real and it kills.

You say incredibly dumb **** man to anyone who disagrees with you. No one is saying let people die, but people will call @Ricky10 a sheep and puppet, but then go to the hospital for his help. You have to be able to see how crazy that is. You speak of sympathy yet throughout this entire thread speak about people who chose to get vaxxed in a negative light.

All of this is to be an intelligent conversation and instead this has turned into attacking anyone that disagrees with the bias found in this thread. I am not for the vaccine or against it. I believe in natural immunity, am not vaxxed, and am anti mandate, but apparently im a sheep because I think the virus should be taken seriously. 🤷🏾‍♂️
 
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thebigt

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Minnesota started tracking breakthrough infections vs reinfections:



Wanna know why Fl has the lowest covid rate in the US right now? Now you know.
damn, biden has been at war with desantis over who is doing what is best for righting covid, score one more for desantis..lots of scores for desantis, big fat zero for biden.
 
thebigt

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I think the difference in this scenario is that smokers, drinkers, and even the obese are aware of the dangers their habits have. An extraordinary amount of people who are unvaccinated completely downplay the risks, saying its the flu or just the common cold, call people sheep for believing the virus is deadly, and then want help when they catch it and have severe symptoms.
do like they used to do when i lived in philippines back in the 80s... bring their stupid asses to the hospital lawn to die and then pick up the dead bodies and throw them in a pit..stupid fuckers that don't get vaccinated deserve to rot-eh?

i've heard it said MANY times on social media that if magrats are so stupid as to not get vaccinated then it is natural selection to let them die and good riddance, the world is a better place without them.
 
poison

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again bank robbers and terrorist KNOW the risks of what their doing. As does smokers and drinkers. The people im referring to are those who completely deny that their is any risk from Covid. Like dying isnt an option. They call it the flu or a cold, and live their life as such. There is a big difference between the two. You can disagree with how the **** is being handled but the virus is real and it kills.
All of the above realize there is some risk, to some extent. All believe they can get away with it, to some extent. But your comment begs the question: if you will treat a terrorist because he knows the risk, why would you NOT treat someone who, according to you, genuinely doesn't know (and isn't a homicidal douche)? It's backwards.

You say incredibly dumb **** man to anyone who disagrees with you. No one is saying let people die, but people will call @Ricky10 a sheep and puppet, but then go to the hospital for his help. You have to be able to see how crazy that is. You speak of sympathy yet throughout this entire thread speak about people who chose to get vaxxed in a negative light.

All of this is to be an intelligent conversation and instead this has turned into attacking anyone that disagrees with the bias found in this thread. I am not for the vaccine or against it. I believe in natural immunity, am not vaxxed, and am anti mandate, but apparently im a sheep because I think the virus should be taken seriously. 🤷🏾‍♂️
Oh no. I never spoke badly about anyone who gets vaxxed, and I've said people should make their own calculations and act accordingly. I'm glad the vax exists, if only to allay people's fears and get them back to living life again. I'm actually concerned that this thing is going to spiral out of control, and those who vax are risking a lot more than they believe....yet I would not keep treatment from them in any way.
 
Hyde

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do like they used to do when i lived in philippines back in the 80s... bring their stupid asses to the hospital lawn to die and then pick up the dead bodies and throw them in a pit..stupid fuckers that don't get vaccinated deserve to rot-eh?

i've heard it said MANY times on social media that if magrats are so stupid as to not get vaccinated then it is natural selection to let them die and good riddance, the world is a better place without them.
And those people are wrong; that hateful idiocy on both sides of all of this is part of what holds this nation back.

@Punkrocker spewing the same type of stupid hate garbage in this thread. Nobody takes extremist delivery seriously. You take the humanity out of the argument, stop seeing people for the humans they are, and you lose your audience.
 
HIT4ME

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@poison - some good responses. Not much time to respond but I have respect for your reasoning, if not always for the delivery.

To some asking about mandates and exemptions. I am no attorney so seek legal council, but to be honest it is my impression that in most states it is against the law for an employer to inquire about your medical records/prior disease.

I am surprised people are not just claiming medical issues preventing them from vaccinating...if an employer asks for more details they could be in hot water. IMO as a non-expert.
 
poison

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Example of the tsunami of bullshit, and arrogance of our overlords: 'it's 100%/90%/72%/54%/38% gosh darn it IT'S VERY SAFE AND EFFECTIVE so everyone should get 3 shots now, and take your kids!'

Myocarditis and pericarditis after COVID-19 vaccination: guidance for healthcare professionals - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

myocarditis – significant left ventricular (LV) fibrosis has been described in a high percentage of children admitted to hospital, with a small percentage of these having non-sustained ventricular tachycardia (VT)

no follow-up data is available yet on hospitalised patients
diagnosis of myocarditis and pericarditis should follow published international guidelines
the majority of cases appear to be mild and self-limiting; any acutely ill or unstable patients should be referred to hospital directly
the long-term consequences of this condition secondary to vaccination are yet unknown, so any screening recommendations need to be balanced against the frequency and severity of the disease with the aim to prevent complications, in particular of myocarditis (arrhythmias, long term myocardial damage or heart failure)
Oh. I'm sorry I questioned you, Herr Doctor.
 
thebigt

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And those people are wrong; that hateful idiocy on both sides of all of this is part of what holds this nation back.

@Punkrocker spewing the same type of stupid hate garbage in this thread. Nobody takes extremist delivery seriously. You take the humanity out of the argument, stop seeing people for the humans they are, and you lose your audience.
punkrocker is not advocating to let anyone die though is he? people advocating to let unvaccinated people die IS extremism.

i remember a guy at the beginning of this thread advocating for manslaughter charges against anyone not vaccinated, i don't see punkrocker advocating prison time for anyone. advocating manslaughter charges against unvaccinated IS extremism.

calling names is bad i agree, but advocating for death and prison truly is EXTREMISM.
 
Hyde

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punkrocker is not advocating to let anyone die though is he? people advocating to let unvaccinated people die IS extremism.

i remember a guy at the beginning of this thread advocating for manslaughter charges against anyone not vaccinated, i don't see punkrocker advocating prison time for anyone. advocating manslaughter charges against unvaccinated IS extremism.

calling names is bad i agree, but advocating for death and prison truly is EXTREMISM.
Go back and reread his posts a few pages back. He’s literally wishing death on people. Your exact definition of extremism - AND mine.

Totally unacceptable behavior, same as those folks you speak of.
 
poison

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punkrocker is not advocating to let anyone die though is he? people advocating to let unvaccinated people die IS extremism.

i remember a guy at the beginning of this thread advocating for manslaughter charges against anyone not vaccinated, i don't see punkrocker advocating prison time for anyone. advocating manslaughter charges against unvaccinated IS extremism.

calling names is bad i agree, but advocating for death and prison truly is EXTREMISM.
And people need to remember who is the chicken and who is the egg. There are a lot of people who just want to be left alone, and indeed, the default is 'nothing': I do nothing, no measures, no masking, nothing. That's the norm. The people who got whipped up into a frothing frenzy and want to harrass, ridicule, bully, and yes, harm those who prefer the default, are the outliers and instigators. The former don't give a **** what others do; others want to force everyone else to have their fears and phobias. These people have wreaked irreparable harm on the whole world, costing millions of lives, wasting millions of hours of living and experiences lost, and completely changing the dynamic of society. Yet they have the nerve to point at those who are starting to get fed up, and say 'you're being mean, extreme, unkind'.

Sorry, that's not how this works, that's not how this is going to go, nor is this how this ends. They don't get to ho-hum 'oops, my bad seemed legit to me can't we just forget it'? I will not hide my contempt or temper my response, though I'll try to be even-handed with it.
 
Hyde

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And people need to remember who is the chicken and who is the egg. There are a lot of people who just want to be left alone, and indeed, the default is 'nothing': I do nothing, no measures, no masking, nothing. That's the norm. The people who got whipped up into a frothing frenzy and want to harrass, ridicule, bully, and yes, harm those who prefer the default, are the outliers and instigators. The former don't give a **** what others do; others want to force everyone else to have their fears and phobias. These people have wreaked irreparable harm on the whole world, costing millions of lives, wasting millions of hours of living and experiences lost, and completely changing the dynamic of society. Yet they have the nerve to point at those who are starting to get fed up, and say 'you're being mean, extreme, unkind'.

Sorry, that's not how this works, that's not how this is going to go, nor is this how this ends. They don't get to ho-hum 'oops, my bad seemed legit to me can't we just forget it'? I will not hide my contempt or temper my response, though I'll try to be even-handed with it.
But YOU are being even-handed with it, by my opinion, anyway. I agree with everything in your post. I am saying that two wrongs cannot make a right, and there are right & wrong ways to stand up for what you believe in.
 
thebigt

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The only thing that brings joy to my heart is knowing that the vaccine is literally an experimental gene therapy that's gonna kill alot of people, specifically the scumbags who are shilling this hoax which is taking away the rights and freedoms all over the western world. It brings be joy to know that you'll all get what you deserve due to your ignorance and blind trust in this beast system
i think this is the post @Hyde was refering to:

And i wholeheartedly disagree with wishing ill, harm or death on anyone who chooses to get vaccinated....just as i would expect the same for my decision to not get vaccinated.



but the difference between wishing harm or death on someone and advocating for the withholding of medical care from unvaccinated or a prison sentence for not being vaccinated is EXTREME-eh, hyde?

a democrat representative actually introduced a bill to withhold medical care from unvaccinated--this is EXTREMISM-i thought biden was going to heal and unite-which one was this bill HEALING or UNITING?

how in hell are we citizens supposed to heal and unite when politicians are introducing hateful bills like this?
 
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thebigt

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We’ve run so many medicals - of COVID positive civilians, majority aren’t vaccinated, that ALS EMS is called for transfer. Couldn’t tell you their outcome. Those not in the field generally have a different outlook as those immersed in it.
so, refuse to treat them--that will show em-eh?

fucking dumbasses-right:unsure:
 
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I got ivermectin. So far, I just have enough for 24mg for 5 days so that's where I'll start tonight. I've decided I will no longer fear it. I admit, fear has been a hiccup. No more. God will use this treatment to heal me quick now that I'm truly trusting Him.
 

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