Anyone interested in Symplocos Racemosa/Lodhra?

sns8778

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Anyone interested in a Symplocos Racemosa (Lohdra) Extract?

This ingredient has been in several popular products over the years like USP Labs Compound 2.0 and Ultimate-T and USP Labs Anabeta Elite.

I had wanted to do one and we were asked for it a couple of times last year, but haven't seen anyone mention it lately.

Here's a brief overview of it:

Symplocos/Lodhra has been shown to be a PDE Inhibitor. PDE's are responsible for breaking down cyclic-AMP (cAMP) in the body. cAMP has several beneficial function such as fat loss, increased muscle mass, thyroid function, and steroidogenesis (enhanced hormone production).

So basically more cAMP in the body can lead to greater fat loss, increased muscle mass, improved thyroid production, and enhanced hormone levels; all of which can be beneficial for building a leaner, more muscular physique.

Also, Symplocos/Lodhra extract increases Luteinizing Hormone (LH) and Follicle Stimulating Hormone (FSH); so it can help booster testosterone levels and may contribute to healthy sperm production.

--------


One holdback I've had with this is that some people get confused when they read some of the research on it because a lot of the research has been on women and where it can have very strong testosterone enhancing benefits in men, it can have testosterone lowering benefits in women. Which if you look at the method of action, makes sense; but some people get confused and read a couple words and then think it lowers testosterone.

I remember PES had to fight that battle with some people not understanding and also with some people and companies attacking them over it. Cooper alluded to it in his thread (and please don't bump 7 year old threads, just linking for reading purposes):


It's an ingredient that I think has a lot of potential so just wanted to throw the idea out there and see if anyone was interested in it.
 
cheftepesh1

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I’d give it a shot.
 
sns8778

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How do y’all feel about my worry about the confusion part? Think people would be able to understand & not let the female study stuff confuse them?

I want to do one. I just don’t want to deal w the BS of it getting attacked out of context if that makes sense.
 
Afi140

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How do y’all feel about my worry about the confusion part? Think people would be able to understand & not let the female study stuff confuse them?

I want to do one. I just don’t want to deal w the BS of it getting attacked out of context if that makes sense.
I think you would be fine. Everyone bought them in the previous products without issue. I would be interested for sure. Stand alone or part of a new natty product? Tbh I really liked a lot of the old usplabs formulas so some similar items under a reputable brand like sns would be
 
Rostam

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If it’s action is PDE so basically it’s kind of a natural tadalafil / sildenafil? I have still two bottles of compound 20. Never used them and at the time I bought them I was under impression it was more like a beta2 agonist. At least it was promoted more like a beta2 than PDE if I remember correctly. Is it safe to take it if someone is using daily tadalafil?
 
GQdaLEGEND

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I enjoyed the stuff .. never took it solo but each product mentioned above along with original natadrol i believe Lodhra was what made it special .. of course in that product it was under dosed and hence pple were double dosing the suggested use imo

and new natadrol2.0 moved lodhra to all the way to the bottom list (meaning they took mg per cap was cut down .. i think that's why it didn't do well

but i think you can run alone or so many stacking ideas .. sa3x, cistanche, Anacyclus

ill Text you later on today SNS
 
Rostam

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I’m confused about its mode of action. If it’s the same extract as compound 20 then it’s a beta2 agonist:

N-Coumaroyldopamine and N-caffeoyldopamine increase cAMP via beta 2-adrenoceptors in myelocytic U937 cells

 

Resolve10

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I’m confused about its mode of action. If it’s the same extract as compound 20 then it’s a beta2 agonist:

N-Coumaroyldopamine and N-caffeoyldopamine increase cAMP via beta 2-adrenoceptors in myelocytic U937 cells

It isn't the same as Compound 20 it was one component (of one of the formulas idk how many variations there were of it). I believe one formulation was Lohdra + N-cou. + N-caff. with the latter being marketed as beta agonists (you can still find them in some products or in Cocoabuterol).

I'd be interested, considering I loved ABE and think it would make a nice addition to ArA cycles for those using X-gels.
 
barische

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why not include it in a natty anabolic that would match ABE profile + arachidonic acid in it with carnitine salts+ phospholipid for absorption.

call it UberAlpha Superior XT
 
GQdaLEGEND

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why not include it in a natty anabolic that would match ABE profile + arachidonic acid in it with carnitine salts+ phospholipid for absorption.

call it UberAlpha Superior XT
i dont think its wise to mix that 40%ARA oil .. actually not even sure if it can be done with certain supplements

plus you have to think about the cost of the product .. which SNS takes very much pride in and wouldnt want to charge $60-80/bottle .. ARA alone costs so much to produce and not to mention can be tricky to handle .. hence you dont see many companies put it out there

powder ara yes very easy that you can find various companies doing it .. but then you would have to overdose on caps

im a huge fan of Xgels ..so im going to be running it no matter what lol
 
Beau

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How do y’all feel about my worry about the confusion part? Think people would be able to understand & not let the female study stuff confuse them?

I want to do one. I just don’t want to deal w the BS of it getting attacked out of context if that makes sense.
I'd be interested.

As to the confusion, it can be minimized "with the right name". I am sure there are people on this forum with helpful naming suggestions.
 

BillD

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i dont think its wise to mix that 40%ARA oil .. actually not even sure if it can be done with certain supplements

plus you have to think about the cost of the product .. which SNS takes very much pride in and wouldnt want to charge $60-80/bottle .. ARA alone costs so much to produce and not to mention can be tricky to handle .. hence you dont see many companies put it out there

powder ara yes very easy that you can find various companies doing it .. but then you would have to overdose on caps

im a huge fan of Xgels ..so im going to be running it no matter what lol
How much difference is there between ARA in powder vs oil?
 
GQdaLEGEND

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How much difference is there between ARA in powder vs oil?
i believe i have seen 10% powder capsule out there ..for more price that Xgels have it at 40%

but you will see certain companies label it
1000mg per cap ( without any mention of any % .. i believe by default it is 10% )
so tech you are getting 100mg

Few months back someone had message me about this and comparing it to Xgels where we state 625mg ( and his whole argument was that 1000mg is more and better value .. but have to be careful reading labels
 
sns8778

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i believe i have seen 10% powder capsule out there ..for more price that Xgels have it at 40%

but you will see certain companies label it
1000mg per cap ( without any mention of any % .. i believe by default it is 10% )
so tech you are getting 100mg

Few months back someone had message me about this and comparing it to Xgels where we state 625mg ( and his whole argument was that 1000mg is more and better value .. but have to be careful reading labels
Companies are intentionally deceptive with the way they dose ARA powder because they don't want the expense of the 40% or the large runs that come along with softgels.

You are right on most of what you posted but missed a key part - most aren't claiming 1000 mg per capsule; they are saying 1000 mg. per serving and then the serving is 2 capsules. So you're only getting 100 mg. active per 2 caps, not 1 capsule.

The person you said contacted you saying 1000 mg. was more and a better value was obviously looking at total mg. rather than mg. of active but still was comparing the dose from 2 capsules to 1 softgel because 1000 mg. ARA will not fit in one capsule regardless. So if he had divided the 1000 mg. out by 2, he would have seen that X-Gels has 625 mg. total versus that having 500 mg. total and then X-Gels is std. to 40% versus powder to 10%.

4 X-Gels = 2,500 mg. total including 1,000 mg. active ARA

In products with the powdered form that use 500 mg. per capsule (10% ARA), a person would have to take literally 20 capsules to equal the same amount of active ARA. 1 -500 mg. capsule would contain only 50 mg. active ARA. So 50 x 20 = 1000.
 
sns8778

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How much difference is there between ARA in powder vs oil?
ARA oil is 40%.
ARA powder is 10%.

Many companies are intentionally deceptive on the way they label ARA powder because they don't want the expense of the oil or the large softgel production runs.

X-Gels - 625 mg. per softgel/250 mg. actual ARA per softgel (625 * 40% = 250 mg.)
So 4 X-Gels per day equals 2500 mg. total/supplying 1,000 mg. ARA.

So for a capsule product using 10% powder to give 1,000 actual ARA per day, they'd have to use 20 capsules @ 500 mg. per capsule. Even if they went with 750 mg. per capsules, you'd have to take 13.5 caps per day to give you the same active content of 4 X-Gels softgels.
 

BillD

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The product I’m looking at (not to purchase, just to compare to xgels) says it has 350mg of pure ARA per capsule. Powdered form .
 
sns8778

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The product I’m looking at (not to purchase, just to compare to xgels) says it has 350mg of pure ARA per capsule. Powdered form .
That's literally not possible and that's what we're talking about about deceptive labeling.

It's literally impossible. The powder version is 10%. The max volume per size 00 capsule is 750 mg. To supply 350 mg. actual ARA they would need to fit 3500 mg. total powder in one capsule.

That's the thing now days - companies like us are supplement companies trying to do things the right way but we're competing with companies that are basically marketing companies that don't even try to do things the right way.

The way that an Arachidonic Acid powder is supposed to be labeled is no different than anything else:
Arachidonic Acid - 350 mg.
(Supplying 10% Arachidonic Acid)

^^^^ instead, they conveniently leave off the 10% part.

This is the exact same thing companies do with Phosphatidic Acid or Phosphatidylserine. They label the total amounts and leave out the %'s because it makes their products look better but doesn't tell the customer how much is really in there.

Take Phosphatidic Acid for example, the branded ingredient name used to just be Mediator; they literally changed it to Mediator 50P to try to get some of these people to stop scamming people and making their ingredient look bad. Because by putting 50P in the name, it makes it more clear that its 50% Phosphatidic Acid. You still do this day have companies that don't state that on their labels.
 
sns8778

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I think you would be fine. Everyone bought them in the previous products without issue. I would be interested for sure. Stand alone or part of a new natty product? Tbh I really liked a lot of the old usplabs formulas so some similar items under a reputable brand like sns would be
Thanks. I've considered it both as part of a formula and as a stand alone.

What of the old USP Labs formulas would you like to see us do?
 
sns8778

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If it’s action is PDE so basically it’s kind of a natural tadalafil / sildenafil? I have still two bottles of compound 20. Never used them and at the time I bought them I was under impression it was more like a beta2 agonist. At least it was promoted more like a beta2 than PDE if I remember correctly. Is it safe to take it if someone is using daily tadalafil?
See the link I posted in the original post to Cooper's old thread. It explains the PDE portion.

Yes, I think you'd be fine with tadalafil imo.
 
sns8778

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I’m confused about its mode of action. If it’s the same extract as compound 20 then it’s a beta2 agonist:

N-Coumaroyldopamine and N-caffeoyldopamine increase cAMP via beta 2-adrenoceptors in myelocytic U937 cells

I think what you're getting confused about is that Compound 20 had more than one ingredient in it. Symplocos/Lodhra was in Compound 20 but there was also N-Coumaroyldopamine and N-Caffeoyldopamine in it too.
 
sns8778

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why not include it in a natty anabolic that would match ABE profile + arachidonic acid in it with carnitine salts+ phospholipid for absorption.

call it UberAlpha Superior XT
It's a good idea but impossible to do because we use ARA at the 40% oil concentration so its a softgel.

And the effective dose of Symplocos is fairly high so it wouldn't be suitable for a softgel, especially stacked with other ingredients.
 
GQdaLEGEND

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The product I’m looking at (not to purchase, just to compare to xgels) says it has 350mg of pure ARA per capsule. Powdered form .

basically you are getting 35mg per cap as oppose to SNS Xgels you will get 250mg per cap.

Ive researched and dug into that co .. dont listen to those fake reviews, he is a huge influencer of sarms/roids and pple follow him for that ( referencing the 4caps/1400mg product )
 

BillD

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That's literally not possible and that's what we're talking about about deceptive labeling.

It's literally impossible. The powder version is 10%. The max volume per size 00 capsule is 750 mg. To supply 350 mg. actual ARA they would need to fit 3500 mg. total powder in one capsule.

That's the thing now days - companies like us are supplement companies trying to do things the right way but we're competing with companies that are basically marketing companies that don't even try to do things the right way.

The way that an Arachidonic Acid powder is supposed to be labeled is no different than anything else:
Arachidonic Acid - 350 mg.
(Supplying 10% Arachidonic Acid)

^^^^ instead, they conveniently leave off the 10% part.

This is the exact same thing companies do with Phosphatidic Acid or Phosphatidylserine. They label the total amounts and leave out the %'s because it makes their products look better but doesn't tell the customer how much is really in there.

Take Phosphatidic Acid for example, the branded ingredient name used to just be Mediator; they literally changed it to Mediator 50P to try to get some of these people to stop scamming people and making their ingredient look bad. Because by putting 50P in the name, it makes it more clear that its 50% Phosphatidic Acid. You still do this day have companies that don't state that on their labels.
God dam…so it’s only 35mg of actual ARA in the pill. Says to take 4 capsules (1400mg) but in actuality your getting 140mg ? That’s brutal
 

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I would try it, I liked the original compound 20 quite a bit. Would it be a single ingredient or would you combine it with something else that could be synergistic?
 

BillD

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basically you are getting 35mg per cap as oppose to SNS Xgels you will get 250mg per cap.

Ive researched and dug into that co .. dont listen to those fake reviews, he is a huge influencer of sarms/roids and pple follow him for that ( referencing the 4caps/1400mg product )
You are correct with the product I’m speaking about. Glad I asked because I have been looking at some of there newer stuff but clearly I need to stay away.
 
sns8778

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I would try it, I liked the original compound 20 quite a bit. Would it be a single ingredient or would you combine it with something else that could be synergistic?
I've thought about it both ways. It could have some great potential in a formula. But may also do it as a single ingredient as well.
 

ironkill

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Ever looked into asparagus extract? Antioxidant, can fix damaged DNA, improved strength and endurance

 
sns8778

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Ever looked into asparagus extract? Antioxidant, can fix damaged DNA, improved strength and endurance

I have but not for any specific idea. Have anything in particular in mind?
 
sns8778

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Looks like something that could be added to lordha or other ingredients for a natural anabolic
I'll be glad to look a little more into it and see what I can come up with.
 
Hyde

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I have had gyno since puberty, and with higher bodyfat I aromatize easily. I was given a bunch of Ultimate T for free to run and every time I would use it it would aggravate my gyno almost immediately. You could predict it like clockwork; I needed an AI to use it so in the end I believe I gave it away.

Whatever USP Labs had in that bottle, it was absolutely affecting hormone levels quickly. Things like tribulus can bug me too so not insinuating it was spiked - I suspect it was indeed raising endogenous test, which was aromatizing in my case.
 

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I have a feeling all these Usp labs products had sarms in them before we knew what sarms were. For awhile all there products where ridiculous for “natural “ products.
 
Hyde

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I have a feeling all these Usp labs products had sarms in them before we knew what sarms were. For awhile all there products where ridiculous for “natural “ products.
I can see how you might come about that theory, but have you ever seen a single product from them tested by a 3rd party that showed any indication of adulteration?

Let’s not throw stones unwarranted.
 

BillD

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I can see how you might come about that theory, but have you ever seen a single product from them tested by a 3rd party that showed any indication of adulteration?

Let’s not throw stones unwarranted.
I’m not saying I cared, I loved the company until the fda cracked down on dmaa and all of a sudden the company went to sh*t. Only said the sarm thing because so many ppl say the company was shady etc etc. I was as much of a USP labs fan boy as anybody back in the day.
 
sns8778

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I quite enjoyed usp labs Prime. The problem with those old formulas is who the hell knows what was really in them. Water chestnut? Idk...
I think that's the way many people feel about it. From our end, all we could do is look at the ingredients, the research, and if things line up, then we could offer what their products either were or were supposed to be - but if anything was not what it was supposed to be, of course no way of knowing or offering that.
 
BCseacow83

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I have a feeling all these Usp labs products had sarms in them before we knew what sarms were. For awhile all there products where ridiculous for “natural “ products.
That would have required USP to have developed the SARMs in house(not a chance in hell lol) because sarms hit the grey market pretty much as soon as the patents were filed. Now some low-dose DS would be more plausible considering the era USP was big during.

It would be interesting to test a first lot run bottle of many products over the years.........
 
sns8778

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I do not like the owner of USP Labs at all because he always went out of his way to be a jerk to me every chance he could, but there's no reason for any of us to keep theorizing about what they did or didn't do. I think most all of us have the same or close to the same theories and opinions on it.

But regardless of opinions of USP Labs or theorizing about their stuff, lets focus on the ingredient, which I think has a lot of potential :)
 
barische

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That would have required USP to have developed the SARMs in house(not a chance in hell lol) because sarms hit the grey market pretty much as soon as the patents were filed. Now some low-dose DS would be more plausible considering the era USP was big during.

It would be interesting to test a first lot run bottle of many products over the years.........
good ole dbol is probably cheaper to produce and easier to spike
 
BCseacow83

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I do not like the owner of USP Labs at all because he always went out of his way to be a jerk to me every chance he could, but there's no reason for any of us to keep theorizing about what they did or didn't do. I think most all of us have the same or close to the same theories and opinions on it.

But regardless of opinions of USP Labs or theorizing about their stuff, lets focus on the ingredient, which I think has a lot of potential :)
Sorry.


I will try your Lohdra as I pretty much have to try almost everything you guys come out with lol.
 
mechka_grizli

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If im being honest, I think a product based off the old Compound20 formula would be great. It was one of two products (oxyelite pro) that I really loved from them.
 
sns8778

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Sorry.

I will try your Lohdra as I pretty much have to try almost everything you guys come out with lol.
No problem. My post wasn't directed at you or anyone else in particular. I just wanted to really get opinions on the ingredient rather than the thread turn into a USP bash fest or theory thread. Like I said, I don't like the owner myself - and you won't hear me say that about many people; he just went out of his way to bash us and be a jerk to me every chance he could and not for really any reason apparently other than that's just the way he is.
 
sns8778

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If im being honest, I think a product based off the old Compound20 formula would be great. It was one of two products (oxyelite pro) that I really loved from them.
Thank you. This conversation on this ingredient is going on in a couple different threads and that's one that a lot of people seem interested in. I'd agreed to do it if anyone can help think of a name and I think we have one haha.

Compound 20 was a prop blend per 2 capsules of 1520 mg. of: Symplocos (Lodhra), N-Coumaroyldopamine, and N-Caffeoyldopamine. With a dosage of 2 servings per day.

My thought was something like:
Symplocos/Lodhra - 2800 mg.
Cocoabuterol - 200 mg., maybe 300 mg. (contains N-Coumaroyldopamine, and N-Caffeoyldopamine)
Bioperine & or AstraGin (I need to check and see if one or both would be beneficial)
 
mechka_grizli

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Thank you. This conversation on this ingredient is going on in a couple different threads and that's one that a lot of people seem interested in. I'd agreed to do it if anyone can help think of a name and I think we have one haha.

Compound 20 was a prop blend per 2 capsules of 1520 mg. of: Symplocos (Lodhra), N-Coumaroyldopamine, and N-Caffeoyldopamine. With a dosage of 2 servings per day.

My thought was something like:
Symplocos/Lodhra - 2800 mg.
Cocoabuterol - 200 mg., maybe 300 mg. (contains N-Coumaroyldopamine, and N-Caffeoyldopamine)
Bioperine & or AstraGin (I need to check and see if one or both would be beneficial)
I'm in the other thread and like the potential name that was mentioned. I put my vote on it

The only other think I can think of that I think goes great with it is forskolin. Problem is, some people do not respond well, so if it was used then Forslean would be the route I would take. 25mg per serving.

The flip side is that Forslean is so readily available that leaving it out would not only keep the cost down, but allow users to tailor their own forskolin dose.
 
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mechka_grizli

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Agreed, literally couldn’t get fat taking the 2
I said in the single greatest supplement you've taken thread that the original Oxyelite Pro was tied for number 1. Don't know what was in that stuff but NOTHING has ever compared to energy and fat loss it gave me
 

BillD

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Thank you. This conversation on this ingredient is going on in a couple different threads and that's one that a lot of people seem interested in. I'd agreed to do it if anyone can help think of a name and I think we have one haha.

Compound 20 was a prop blend per 2 capsules of 1520 mg. of: Symplocos (Lodhra), N-Coumaroyldopamine, and N-Caffeoyldopamine. With a dosage of 2 servings per day.

My thought was something like:
Symplocos/Lodhra - 2800 mg.
Cocoabuterol - 200 mg., maybe 300 mg. (contains N-Coumaroyldopamine, and N-Caffeoyldopamine)
Bioperine & or AstraGin (I need to check and see if one or both would be beneficial)
Yes please
 

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