Tell Us What You Would Like to See From SNS & CEL (2021 Edition)

thescience said:
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so map is really cool. it has been selling from the same company for 50 years based on the theory that 99% nitrogen retention results in superior protein utilization. they put alot of work forward making that point on their site linked above, whether or not its true.. the knockoffs that have just started popping out are able to let people know theyre a clone by tagging it with the 99% utilization. it comes with other claims that 10g of it is worth 50g of whey on that webpage. alot of people swear it's the only eaa blend that so drastically reduces doms. is the protein equivalent worth 5og of whey? i dont know, but im far from the 1.5 g protein per lb of bodyweight unless i count the 30g of it im taking as 150g, and like i said im not losing muscle/strength.people are fanatics about this stuff. it gained alot of steam recently also with the study somewhere that BCAA are 1% utilized if taken without the other aminos. MAP is definately BCAA heavy, and my experience with it would be that it's a BCAA that works noticably for stopping doms and preserving muslce when taken alone. i have a list of the ratio's somewhere.
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Thanks. MAP is an abbreviation for several different things so I wanted to make sure that I was thinking the right one.

I don't agree with everything that they say, but overall I do like BCAA's and EAA's. There is the huge BCAA vs. EAA argument and I always look at it like this - different things work different for different people so its not necessarily which is better, its which works best for the individual .

I don't count my BCAA intake as protein intake but you're the only other person I know besides me that uses 30 grams per day so I thought that was cool to see. In my case, I have an autoimmune condition that causes a lot of pain and soreness and I use high doses to help combat that.
 
sns8778 said:
Thanks. MAP is an abbreviation for several different things so I wanted to make sure that I was thinking the right one.

I don't agree with everything that they say, but overall I do like BCAA's and EAA's. There is the huge BCAA vs. EAA argument and I always look at it like this - different things work different for different people so its not necessarily which is better, its which works best for the individual .

I don't count my BCAA intake as protein intake but you're the only other person I know besides me that uses 30 grams per day so I thought that was cool to see. In my case, I have an autoimmune condition that causes a lot of pain and soreness and I use high doses to help combat that.
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yeah i imagine you have some guys with a better standing amino acid pool in their system than others, which could explain any differences in taking in bcaa solo. it's funny about the 30g, but i know alot of guys in these FB groups doing the 50. they buy the stuff like 6 tubs at a time. i knew a guy who claimed kept some kind of autoimmune issue at bay to a certain degree using the yohimbine powder at the 25mg scoop from a company on ebay or amazon., he said something to the effect that it was interfering with the breakdown of norepinephrine, which becomes more pronounced after a few weeks of daily use
 
thescience said:
yeah i imagine you have some guys with a better standing amino acid pool in their system than others, which could explain any differences in taking in bcaa solo. it's funny about the 30g, but i know alot of guys in these FB groups doing the 50. they buy the stuff like 6 tubs at a time. i knew a guy who claimed kept some kind of autoimmune issue at bay to a certain degree using the yohimbine powder at the 25mg scoop from a company on ebay or amazon., he said something to the effect that it was interfering with the breakdown of norepinephrine, which becomes more pronounced after a few weeks of daily use
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That would have to be Yohimbe herb powder, not standardized yohimbine or yohimbine hcl. Absolutely no way I'd try that one myself but if it works for that person, I'm glad its helping him. Autoimmune issues suck.
 
sns8778 said:
That would have to be Yohimbe herb powder, not standardized yohimbine or yohimbine hcl. Absolutely no way I'd try that one myself but if it works for that person, I'm glad its helping him. Autoimmune issues suck.
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oh yeah it's yohimbine hcl all right. in his defense, that's actually in the daily serving suggestion! i wonder how he's doing hahaha
 
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sns8778 said:
I'm sorry, I'm honestly confused. I don't know what the MAP patent is that you're referring to.

If we go with a BCAA, we will likely go with 2:1:1.

If we go with an EAA, we will likely go with Amino9; maybe Amino9 plus some added Leucine.

If we do a formula, it will be a really cool formula I've had worked up that I've wanted to do for awhile now :)
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Maybe 1-1.5g HICA in there?
 
I miss Alphamine for sure. But I admit I’m pretty picked about powdered fat burners too. I don’t know why “powdered” is seen as an excuse to water down the formulas. GNC did this recently with Burn MF powder, missing half the ingredients of the original.

And on the stim notes, I guess I’m getting tired of what’s out there. Alphamine always felt like nothing else on the shelf in a way that was aggressive but not dirty. Would certainly be into some newer-edge stims or combinations to that effect.
 
Wallet55 said:
Maybe 1-1.5g HICA in there?
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I thought about that but may or may not for a couple reasons. HICA tastes terrible; HICA works best when used daily; and we’re doing a HICA product soon :)
 
N2ofusion said:
I miss Alphamine for sure. But I admit I’m pretty picked about powdered fat burners too. I don’t know why “powdered” is seen as an excuse to water down the formulas. GNC did this recently with Burn MF powder, missing half the ingredients of the original.

And on the stim notes, I guess I’m getting tired of what’s out there. Alphamine always felt like nothing else on the shelf in a way that was aggressive but not dirty. Would certainly be into some newer-edge stims or combinations to that effect.
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The reason for watering them down is primarily cost and then some ingredients just taste terrible. So they’ll remove them bc the average general consumer wouldn’t drink it.

The stim powder I’m working on will be really cool. Great combo of ingredients. But we’re trying to get the flavors right. Very hard to flavor product.
 
Go for the EAA over BCAA. Plenty of studies showing greater benefit for EAA when it comes to protein synthesis
 
ironkill said:
Go for the EAA over BCAA. Plenty of studies showing greater benefit for EAA when it comes to protein synthesis
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I could see us eventually offering both.

I agree that studies show better benefits regarding EAA's but you may or may not be surprised to know that BCAA's still sell dramatically better. You have the crowd that loves and follows some of the people that promote the 2:1:1 ratio and also the Xtend crowd.

That's why the decision is so hard on this and why we may wind up offering both at some point.
 
sns8778 said:
I could see us eventually offering both.

I agree that studies show better benefits regarding EAA's but you may or may not be surprised to know that BCAA's still sell dramatically better. You have the crowd that loves and follows some of the people that promote the 2:1:1 ratio and also the Xtend crowd.

That's why the decision is so hard on this and why we may wind up offering both at some point.
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I mean I get that but at the end of the day you want to give customers something with proven data rather than something that “just sells”. I would like to see an EAA product with about 10g of whey added because that is what stimulates MPS the most from what I’ve researched.
 
ironkill said:
I mean I get that but at the end of the day you want to give customers something with proven data rather than something that “just sells”. I would like to see an EAA product with about 10g of whey added because that is what stimulates MPS the most from what I’ve researched.
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I think the data is good on both BCAA's and EAA's. If you think back 5 years, most everyone would have said it was better on BCAA's at the time. That's how Xtend became what it is today.

It wouldn't be selling something that 'just sells'; it would be offering something to both customer bases. It would be different if one or the other didn't work, but I think both types do work, its just which one a person prefers.

For me personally, I'm the most excited about my formula idea and that's the one I'd go with if I were going to use just one; but I use a high dose of EAA's daily for a different reason so in my case I'd probably be using one for pre/intra purposes but then the straight one throughout the day.

I like the idea of one + whey, but it makes it logistically difficult from a manufacturing standpoint. In a perfect world I'd love to see 10 grams of Whey Hydro + EAA's but it would likely taste terrible and the market for it would be very slim.
 
sns8778 said:
Thanks for the suggestion. It is so expensive that if we did it, we'd probably do a capsule version just to be able to reach the maximum amount of customers. It seems like especially for higher price/lower dose options many customers prefer capsules.
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@sns8778 I too would love a NA-R-ALA but not understanding why it would be expensive. I see other companies offering 60 capsules of
R-Lipoic Acid (from 125 mg of Biosolv Enhanced Sodium R-Lipoic Acid) for only $17.99 a bottle. That’s extremely cheap.
 
sns8778 said:
I'm sorry, I'm honestly confused. I don't know what the MAP patent is that you're referring to.

If we go with a BCAA, we will likely go with 2:1:1.

If we go with an EAA, we will likely go with Amino9; maybe Amino9 plus some added Leucine.

If we do a formula, it will be a really cool formula I've had worked up that I've wanted to do for awhile now :)
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@sns8778 why not go with the proven ratio of:
Leucine 3,500mg
Phenylalanine 1,400mg
Lysine 1,200mg
Valine 1,000mg
Threonine 1,000mg
Isoleucine 800mg
Histidine 800mg
Methionine 300mg
Tryptophan 50mg

Look at the referenced studies below and you will be blown away. I use these exact dosages with the addition of 25 grams of Highly Branched Cyclic Dextrin intra workout and it’s insane how much it’s improved my workouts and especially my recovery. Here are the studies:
(Tipton)
(Børsheim et al, 2002)
(Pasiakos et, al, 2011)
(Kerksick et al, 2008 & Pasiakos et al, 2011)
 
sns8778 said:
I'm leaning towards doing this one regardless bc I really want it available to be able to use it personally :)
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Count me in for this one as well! I know it’s been talked about for quite awhile
 
offredjo said:
@sns8778 I too would love a NA-R-ALA but not understanding why it would be expensive. I see other companies offering 60 capsules of
R-Lipoic Acid (from 125 mg of Biosolv Enhanced Sodium R-Lipoic Acid) for only $17.99 a bottle. That’s extremely cheap.
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Plain R-ALA and NA are dramatically different in cost
 
offredjo said:
@sns8778 I too would love a NA-R-ALA but not understanding why it would be expensive. I see other companies offering 60 capsules of
R-Lipoic Acid (from 125 mg of Biosolv Enhanced Sodium R-Lipoic Acid) for only $17.99 a bottle. That’s extremely cheap.
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I'll look back into it. At one time, there were some lawsuits with companies that claimed to hold some rights on it - I believe it was Geronova at the time. I stopped following that years ago so I'm not sure how it turned out. Plus, there is much debate on the stability aspect of it.

I'll put it on my list of things to try to refresh on. It's something I hadn't been asked about in years.
 
offredjo said:
@sns8778 why not go with the proven ratio of:
Leucine 3,500mg
Phenylalanine 1,400mg
Lysine 1,200mg
Valine 1,000mg
Threonine 1,000mg
Isoleucine 800mg
Histidine 800mg
Methionine 300mg
Tryptophan 50mg

Look at the referenced studies below and you will be blown away. I use these exact dosages with the addition of 25 grams of Highly Branched Cyclic Dextrin intra workout and it’s insane how much it’s improved my workouts and especially my recovery. Here are the studies:
(Tipton)
(Børsheim et al, 2002)
(Pasiakos et, al, 2011)
(Kerksick et al, 2008 & Pasiakos et al, 2011)
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There are so many ratios that have different research backing them so there are a lot of proven ratios; there just isn't any data that I'm aware of comparing many of them to one another.

I am a big fan of Cluster Dextrin (HBCD) myself as well. I start sipping on it about 20 mins prior to my workout and sip on it throughout the first half of my workout and then take another scoop post workout.
 
sns8778 said:
There are so many ratios that have different research backing them so there are a lot of proven ratios; there just isn't any data that I'm aware of comparing many of them to one another.

I am a big fan of Cluster Dextrin (HBCD) myself as well. I start sipping on it about 20 mins prior to my workout and sip on it throughout the first half of my workout and then take another scoop post workout.
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Please look into the studies I referenced. They are not like the other half assed EAA studies out there. When i mention these studies to physiologists, they always tell me that these are known as the gold standard for EAA/mps research. One physiologist told me that anyone who knows Tipton’s works knows he’s a stud! I would definitely read them and you’ll see they trump all other studies. I’ve been using this ratio since 2013 and I no longer take protein it has had such a significant effect on my recovery.
 
offredjo said:
Please look into the studies I referenced. They are not like the other half assed EAA studies out there. When i mention these studies to physiologists, they always tell me that these are known as the gold standard for EAA/mps research. One physiologist told me that anyone who knows Tipton’s works knows he’s a stud! I would definitely read them and you’ll see they trump all other studies. I’ve been using this ratio since 2013 and I no longer take protein it has had such a significant effect on my recovery.
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I'm not disagreeing or putting down the studies in any way. I've read them in the past and bookmarked them to read again, just not today bc I'm in the middle of a ton of write ups and label text work and have only checked on here to reply today when I was taking a mental break for a few moments.

I'm just saying that there are a lot of different studies on different dosage configurations that show great results. Each side or each camp if you want to call it generally defends theirs as the end all, be all - when the reality is that a 200 mg. variance from a ratio on one amino or the other probably makes little to no difference. For example, if we used that %, we would get hammered by a whole lot of people for the valine and isoleucine contents being too low (just an example).

The conversation now is one reason why we've never made one in the past. In almost all cases you're never going to please everyone, but with these types of products, it doesn't seem like there's a way to even please half of people bc there are so many different arguments and perspectives.
 
How far off is the libido product? It's what I'm most interested in as I f..K different girls and feel like I always want to perform at my best 😂😁
 
GQdaLEGEND said:
Overall Diff Creatine Matrix flavored
Creatine HCL - 1.5g
MCC ( magna power ) - 2.5g
L - Taurine - 2g

for those who love creatine, prolly would love this and would stack well with daily ergo :)
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The daily use ergogenic will have creatine already in it.

I have been considering doing a creatine formula for people that don't like monohydrate though. Another type to think about that a lot of people seem to like is creatine anhydrous.
 
AdelV said:
How far off is the libido product? It's what I'm most interested in as I f..K different girls and feel like I always want to perform at my best 😂😁
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Ha. Noble goals, noble goals.

The formula is done and I'm waiting on a quote to see if I need to scale it back any; I hope not. One particular ingredient has been a real pain to source; and comically, it sounds like it would be the easiest one to in there. That's how jacked up the supply chain is right now.

Realistically, I'd say probably 2 months or so bc we have to release Optimize-T and Anabolic XT first bc raws are already in, labels done, etc.
 
AdelV said:
How far off is the libido product? It's what I'm most interested in as I f..K different girls and feel like I always want to perform at my best 😂😁
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lol legend right there

ahh the college life
 
sns8778 said:
Ha. Noble goals, noble goals.

The formula is done and I'm waiting on a quote to see if I need to scale it back any; I hope not. One particular ingredient has been a real pain to source; and comically, it sounds like it would be the easiest one to in there. That's how jacked up the supply chain is right now.

Realistically, I'd say probably 2 months or so bc we have to release Optimize-T and Anabolic XT first bc raws are already in, labels done, etc.
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Let’s get more info out on Anabolic XT!
 
luckuyguy said:
Let’s get more info out on Anabolic XT!
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I'll maybe post something up later this week or the beginning of next week. I really don't like overhyping things; which I guess I need to get better at it bc I know it costs us sales.
 
sns8778 said:
The daily use ergogenic will have creatine already in it.

I have been considering doing a creatine formula for people that don't like monohydrate though. Another type to think about that a lot of people seem to like is creatine anhydrous.
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What are your thoughts on creatine nitrate?
 
alvin1 said:
Play the hype game come on! No worries about it
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I probably should; would probably definitely be more profitable. That's just never been the way I am as a person so its hard to make myself change that, even though I know I probably should and want to.
 
GQdaLEGEND said:
lol legend right there

ahh the college life
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I'm 38 hahahahah. I'm not married, or have any children.

Aussie chicks are actually tough too, if I lived in Europe it'd be 1000% easier.

I don't actually wanna be bigger than I am, and my wrist is still stuffed from breaking it 5 months ago so I may as-well spend money on my health, and what fun I can have ATM.

Plus I feel Finasteride halved my volume and it has never fully recovered and looking to get back on it and I'm continuing losing hair it seems. Getting old? 😂😂😜😜🤘🤘🍆
 
Irishobrien said:
I’m psyched for SNS’ release of L-BAIBA. I buy from Alpha Lion however it’s tough to get a good price with decent shipping times. Would love for SNS to make a pre-WO like Super Human Burn. I almost pulled the trigger for Thermoamp but my intolerance for forskolin was too great.
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I'm quoting this post into here from a different thread for discussion purposes and I want some opinions please.

MitoBurn stand alone product - hopeful ETA is around a month. This is just a best guess. We have so many things in production that sometimes our own stuff pushes our own stuff back.

MitoBurn formula - I would love to hear feedback as to what people would like to see in it. The formula from my end is done, but its not too late to change so I'd love to hear any ingredients that people would or wouldn't like to see in it. I'm leaning towards not including Forskolin and just doing that as a separate product that people can stack with it if they want to.

@Irishobrien thank you for the suggestion on something like Super Human Burn. I would love to hear any suggestions that anyone would have as to what they'd like to see in a product like that. I'd been thinking of doing one; I just wasn't sure if there was enough interest.
 
sns8778 said:
I'm quoting this post into here from a different thread for discussion purposes and I want some opinions please.

MitoBurn stand alone product - hopeful ETA is around a month. This is just a best guess. We have so many things in production that sometimes our own stuff pushes our own stuff back.

MitoBurn formula - I would love to hear feedback as to what people would like to see in it. The formula from my end is done, but its not too late to change so I'd love to hear any ingredients that people would or wouldn't like to see in it. I'm leaning towards not including Forskolin and just doing that as a separate product that people can stack with it if they want to.

@Irishobrien thank you for the suggestion on something like Super Human Burn. I would love to hear any suggestions that anyone would have as to what they'd like to see in a product like that. I'd been thinking of doing one; I just wasn't sure if there was enough interest.
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I like that Alpha Lion includes bioperine in the formula also. Not sure if it’s actually needed but it always looks nice as an addition.

As far as a Pre like SH Burn, sure, but max out the doses for the fat burners and keep the caffeine low. When I see 300 mg of caffeine and like 40 mg of grains of paradise, it’s very hard to get the fat burning / unique compounds in any meaningful quantities. Which is why this product intrigues me but I consistently pass. I know Steelfit gets a bad rap but I like that their two fat burners have 100-150mg caffeine only so I get the full doses of everything and still drink a monster later if needed
 
N2ofusion said:
I like that Alpha Lion includes bioperine in the formula also. Not sure if it’s actually needed but it always looks nice as an addition.

As far as a Pre like SH Burn, sure, but max out the doses for the fat burners and keep the caffeine low. When I see 300 mg of caffeine and like 40 mg of grains of paradise, it’s very hard to get the fat burning / unique compounds in any meaningful quantities. Which is why this product intrigues me but I consistently pass. I know Steelfit gets a bad rap but I like that their two fat burners have 100-150mg caffeine only so I get the full doses of everything and still drink a monster later if needed
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We will have Bioperine with our MitoBurn stand alone product. Sometimes when I say stand alone, I'm just not thinking on mentioning the absorption enhancers. Like we have a product coming out in the next 2 weeks that's named after the active ingredient and I've referred to it as a stand alone, but it has both Bioperine and Astragin in it :)

I agree on caffeine content. It's a no-win situation. There's the crowd that only wants something if its super stim and high caffeine but then there's people like yourself that want a moderate amount; enough to be effective but not enough to have to worry if you drank an energy drink or took in another caffeine source.

So its like on one hand, if we don't come close to them on caffeine, some people won't view it as a competitor to it or use it (which I don't understand bc its always so easy to use more caffeine if someone wants). On the other hand though, we would definitely be going heavier on the fat burning ingredients.

I'm personally not a fan of Beta Alanine in pre-workouts. It needs to be taken daily for best results and I hate the tingles from it. They go away if I use it daily, but not if I don't.
 
sns8778 said:
We will have Bioperine with our MitoBurn stand alone product. Sometimes when I say stand alone, I'm just not thinking on mentioning the absorption enhancers. Like we have a product coming out in the next 2 weeks that's named after the active ingredient and I've referred to it as a stand alone, but it has both Bioperine and Astragin in it :)

I agree on caffeine content. It's a no-win situation. There's the crowd that only wants something if its super stim and high caffeine but then there's people like yourself that want a moderate amount; enough to be effective but not enough to have to worry if you drank an energy drink or took in another caffeine source.

So its like on one hand, if we don't come close to them on caffeine, some people won't view it as a competitor to it or use it (which I don't understand bc its always so easy to use more caffeine if someone wants). On the other hand though, we would definitely be going heavier on the fat burning ingredients.

I'm personally not a fan of Beta Alanine in pre-workouts. It needs to be taken daily for best results and I hate the tingles from it. They go away if I use it daily, but not if I don't.
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I would also love to see a product like this, had been thinking that a while just never mentioned it. Agree with better dosages of the fat burning products but less of some other things.

Beta Alanine could definitely go bye bye. It doesn’t bother me but I don’t personally use it regularly enough to get the benefits. Perhaps replace it with agmatine? It’s a definitely a better pump ingredient and has other benefits that I think would fit the purpose of a burner/pre combo product well.Higher doses GOP for sure would be good. Perhaps a modest dose of GBB would go well in a product like this. The temperature increase from GBB would be way more desirable than the current tingles for BA.
I would be very excited for a product like this from you guys. I’ll keep brainstorming. Interested to hear what others think too!
 
tenorguy33 said:
I would also love to see a product like this, had been thinking that a while just never mentioned it. Agree with better dosages of the fat burning products but less of some other things.

Beta Alanine could definitely go bye bye. It doesn’t bother me but I don’t personally use it regularly enough to get the benefits. Perhaps replace it with agmatine? It’s a definitely a better pump ingredient and has other benefits that I think would fit the purpose of a burner/pre combo product well.Higher doses GOP for sure would be good. Perhaps a modest dose of GBB would go well in a product like this. The temperature increase from GBB would be way more desirable than the current tingles for BA.
I would be very excited for a product like this from you guys. I’ll keep brainstorming. Interested to hear what others think too!
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Thank you. Always feel free to let me know of anything you'd like to see from us. And if you don't want to mention it in the thread, you're always welcome to pm it to me.

I definitely like Agmatine more than I do Beta Alanine for an inclusion in a pre-workout.

I like the idea of GBB in a product like this. I would probably go with a 25 mg. dose; a good dose but not super high.

I appreciate the input and ideas.
 
poison said:
Did you just say '**** Ron'? lol
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No, that wasn't my intention at all. I was just answering the question that we couldn't use creatine nitrate due to patent issues. From my understanding, he generally only licenses creatine nitrate to large companies that meet certain MOQ's and also have certain minimum advertising budgets.
 
I've been putting FOCUS XT to the test for the past few weeks and after getting a GOOD feel for
it I posted a review for it in the Supplement Review Section.:)
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uforce said:
this lol. enough talk. more action.
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We've released 12 new products so far this year and have over 20 in some stage of production. If that's not enough action, I'm not sure what else we can do haha.
 
TommyTuffGuy said:
Alright, where's the Horny Goat Weed. Where's the SNS test/libido booster, come on guys.
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We are going to do a Horny Goat Weed, we just had a lot of products that we already had labels &/or raw materials for that had to be completed first.

Libido Boost XT formula is done. We are waiting on 2 things - the release of Optimize-T (because don't want to release the 2 close together) and the release of a new branded ingredient that I've seen the studies for that should be fantastic for erection quality that we want to use in the product. The product will be mostly focused on increasing libido, but I don't think anyone would complain about it helping erection quality too :)
 
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