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Donald Trump running for president

sammpedd88 said:
So you don’t think the officer in Atlanta was justified to use deadly force?
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I think they was totally justified. Could a different officer handled it differently? Sure, but I defend these officers 100% under the lightening fast circumstances I can see why they reacted the way they did so yes 100% justified. That drunkard has nobody to blame buy himself. Its sad he died but what the hell lets get real here.
 
sammpedd88 said:
So you don’t think the officer in Atlanta was justified to use deadly force?
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What I meant by it took the steam out of me is that I felt the movement had positive and just momentum, until many of the same people went out to destroy these police officers lives over an unfortunate incident caused by a violent drunkard. And to call it racial injustice on top of it all, its ridiculous, lost my respect for many of these people.
 
ax1 said:
I think they was totally justified. Could a different officer handled it differently? Sure, but I defend these officers 100% under the lightening fast circumstances I can see why they reacted the way they did so yes 100% justified. That drunkard has nobody to blame buy himself. Its sad he died but what the hell lets get real here.
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You mean the dude who was crawling on the floor that they perforated?
 
thebigt said:
i don't believe that...nos is a businessman trying to make a buck just like me, we just have differing views on politics.
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I know I was just joking. I like to give him a hard time about the CHOP thing
 
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nostrum420 said:
You mean the dude who was crawling on the floor that they perforated?
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Yes that dude, fortunately that drunkard didnt attempt to drive home drunk and smash into another families car and kill a 5 year old kid because thats what happens. Im glad the police stopped him. Im not happy the dude died but come on man, you cant do that to the police its common sense you might end up with a few bullets in your head. Man up and take responsibilities for your careless mistakes.
 
dixonk said:
Yeah I call BS on this one. They still need PC to pull someone over and they do have cameras in the cars that are filming. But I have a friend stories are usually pretty good, along with fishing stories.
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If you seriously think this type of stuff doesnt happen, you are a part of the problem
 
sammpedd88 said:
It sure as hell lessens your chance. I in no way condone what the office did to George Floyd but if anyone of any color didn’t commit a crime and was respectful and cooperative when coming in contact with LEO’s then everything would be fine.
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Maybe Breonna Taylor shouldnt have been asleep in her own house before cops shot her. Yeah, seems fair.

Anyone held to account yet? Nope.

What was the crime committed here?
 
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ax1 said:
If prefer giving the tax payer their money back and especially keeping the government far away from their disastrous social engineering projects.

Im not a "big police" guy, but I do I love and respect them. I gotta say these gangs in the city dont give a crap about community focused police, they rather buy them out or put a bullet in their heads if they get in their way. Its serious.
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Do you guys seriously think you're the only country with a gang problem?
 
Jiigzz said:
Maybe Breonna Taylor shouldnt have been asleep in her own house before cops shot her. Yeah, seems fair.

Anyone held to account yet? Nope.
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That was a horrific incident and it should have been dealt with as an individual case. It doesnt mean mass police terrorism on black people which is what they are making it out to be.
 
ax1 said:
Where is all the outrage of regular Americans killing Americans? Thats far more likely than being killed by a cop, and if your not an azzhole chances of being killed by a cop is almost impossible.
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Innocent people shouldnt be killed by cops, period.

If you can excuse a single death, then you're a part of the problem.
 
Jiigzz said:
Do you guys seriously think you're the only country with a gang problem?
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Of course not, but Im know the culture here first hand, in New York at least. There was a time the Mafia was more powerful than the police, I dont think they could have been dealt with by using mopeds and throwing ninja stars.
 
Jiigzz said:
Do you guys seriously think you're the only country with a gang problem?
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It wasnt that long ago that it wasnt even a gang problem, it was an international terrorism problem here domestically and justification to arm out police ballz shyt. Thats how it all happened. I tried to warn people about how its all bullshyt almost 20 years ago but people just got the message.

Somehow culture changed and al-queda is no longer the threat, the men in blue are.
 
ax1 said:
Well of course not, I dont think anybody here is saying that.
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If you read back a few pages, you'll find plenty of people dismissing innocents being killed
 
Jiigzz said:
The top one, fine. I'm not so sure that an APC is reaaaallllyyyyy needed though. Invalid Link Removed
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Like this stuff, it was needed because they convinced the world that hairy cavemen are out to blow you up with suitcase sized nukes. That was the justification, no because of gangs. So if its true hairy boogeymen are out to get us then military grade vehicles are needed in some areas to defend us from terrorists. Of course you know me and how I feel about all that though.
 
Jiigzz said:
If you read back a few pages, you'll find plenty of people dismissing innocents being killed
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I think I remember some hardcore posts now that I think of it.

Oh, Ill say it again though I am very pro police reform especially the justice system. Police and local justice systems cant police themselves, it doesnt work. They all know eachother most of the time.
 
ax1 said:
I think I remember some hardcore posts now that I think of it.

Oh, Ill say it again though I am very pro police reform especially the justice system. Police and local justice systems cant police themselves, it doesnt work. They all know eachother most of the time.
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I'm pro police as well, but can admit when there are flaws.

So many peoples arguments in here is "I dont see the issue, therefore there is no issue".

I've seen the good and the bad
 
The other true is, I couldnt care less if the police have tactical weapons and vehicles, what I'm saying is that it takes more than just police to invoke change.

It works from the ground up. So if you're only funding police yet neglecting mental health, that should be a priority. Most western countries dont do enough for mental health, and it literally underpins so many issues. Things like drug dependencies fuel a lot crime and should be addressed. You cant just throw everyone in prison - we know that doesnt work.
 
Jiigzz said:
I'm pro police as well, but can admit when there are flaws.

So many peoples arguments in here is "I dont see the issue, therefore there is no issue".

I've seen the good and the bad
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If anyone here is saying there are "no" issues I completely disagree with it. Thats insane lol
 
Jiigzz said:
The other true is, I couldnt care less if the police have tactical weapons and vehicles, what I'm saying is that it takes more than just police to invoke change.

It works from the ground up. So if you're only funding police yet neglecting mental health, that should be a priority. Most western countries dont do enough for mental health, and it literally underpins so many issues. Things like drug dependencies fuel a lot crime and should be addressed. You cant just throw everyone in prison - we know that doesnt work.
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Maybe we invest too much in mental health. We are the most prescribed drugged nation on the globe as far as I know.

If it was me Id decriminalize all and all drugs and Id set up drug shops that sell clean drugs at a competitive price, clean needles and it can self finance itself into on site drug treatment/counseling/medical care center. The bonus is that it would take the money out of criminals hands and the same money would go into a good cause and police can focus on real crimes.
 
ax1 said:
Maybe we invest too much in mental health. We are the most prescribed drugged nation on the globe as far as I know.

If it was me Id decriminalize all and all drugs and Id set up drug shops that sell clean drugs at a competitive price, clean needles and it can self finance itself into on site drug treatment/counseling/medical care center. The bonus is that it would take the money out of criminals hands and the same money would go into a good cause and police can focus on real crimes.
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I'm not talking just giving out drugs, I mean as a part of a full fledged system. Mental health workers, advanced response workers, crisis workers etc
 
You see below, this is why our police are militarized. Its because of 9/11 and the Patriot Act. They were militarized to protect us from an international terrorist cartel than wanted to kill Americans because they hate our freedom, so they say.

That first decade after 9/11, the tin foil hat people including myself warned people it will be used against them domestically and people arent laughing at us anymore.

Police forces have grown increasingly militarized in the years following the September 11th attacks. In part, this is a response to new rules established in the PATRIOT Act. A surplus of decommissioned military equipment and weapons has also found its way into domestic police forces.

SWAT teams have been used with increasing frequency, sometimes just to serve warrants on nonviolent criminals.

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Jiigzz said:
I'm not talking just giving out drugs, I mean as a part of a full fledged system. Mental health workers, advanced response workers, crisis workers etc
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But I found a way to self finance it. Im wasnt talking about giving out drugs, but an independent agency of the government selling them to finance everything your talking about here. Drugs will generate alot of revenue, revenue that all the criminals are getting.

This country is broke, broke and broke, we cannot afford to finance anything other than being more broke.
 
Jiigzz said:
I'm not talking just giving out drugs, I mean as a part of a full fledged system. Mental health workers, advanced response workers, crisis workers etc
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On the dufending the police issue, I can agree with can de-fund militarization of the police, however as far as I know police get less training than barbers do in the US. Also they have a high suicide rate.

I think if your going to defund certain aspects of the police, the police should be able to keep the funds and invest for better training and tactics reform and also providing police with better mental health services.

Police shouldnt lose their funds, the money should be better used so we can help the police to be in a better position to succeed.

Thats the perspective I would take if we werent going to decrease the size and lower people's taxes.
 
ax1 said:
But I found a way to self finance it. Im wasnt talking about giving out drugs, but an independent agency of the government selling them to finance everything your talking about here. Drugs will generate alot of revenue, revenue that all the criminals are getting.

This country is broke, broke and broke, we cannot afford to finance anything other than being more broke.
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I'm against decriminalizing drugs like meth. Some people can function reasonably OK with it, but I've also seen peoples entire lives destroyed by it. It's crazy
 
ax1 said:
On the dufending the police issue, I can agree with can de-fund militarization of the police, however as far as I know police get less training than barbers do in the US. Also they have a high suicide rate.

I think if your going to defund certain aspects of the police, the police should be able to keep the funds and invest for better training and tactics reform and also providing police with better mental health services.

Police shouldnt lose their funds, the money should be better used so we can help the police to be in a better position to succeed.

Thats the perspective I would take if we werent going to decrease the size and lower people's taxes.
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Yep agreed! Invest more in training :)
 
Jiigzz said:
I'm against decriminalizing drugs like meth. Some people can function reasonably OK with it, but I've also seen peoples entire lives destroyed by it. It's crazy
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Maybe you can just have the more common ones available and have them pharmaceutical quality.

I think drugs like meth and crack came due to the war on drugs and cheaper easier alternatives came into play.

The people doing all the good drugs are rich people. And no, lol I dont mean "good" but stuff like cocaine, and clean coke that is, is affordably to the masses and more dangerous alternatives come to play.
 
ax1 said:
Maybe you can just have the more common ones available and have them pharmaceutical quality.

I think drugs like meth and crack came due to the war on drugs and cheaper easier alternatives came into play.

The people doing all the good drugs are rich people. And no, lol I dont mean "good" but stuff like cocaine, and clean coke that is, is affordably to the masses and more dangerous alternatives come to play.
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Yeah, I can agree with decriminalizing some for sure.
 
ax1 said:
That was a horrific incident and it should have been dealt with as an individual case. It doesnt mean mass police terrorism on black people which is what they are making it out to be.
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The guy keeps repeating that if people didn't commit crime, then people wouldnt get shot.

What crime did she commit? Police got the wrong house and NOONE has been held accountable. When the system is broke, why are you surprised when people protest?

Someone innocent dies, and all of a sudden it's the police who need protecting? Like what. Someone should have been held accountable. If you are for the people, you treat them equally as if one of your own was shot.
 
ax1 said:
What I meant by it took the steam out of me is that I felt the movement had positive and just momentum, until many of the same people went out to destroy these police officers lives over an unfortunate incident caused by a violent drunkard. And to call it racial injustice on top of it all, its ridiculous, lost my respect for many of these people.
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I gotcha! I understand where you were coming from now. That is the point I was trying to make after George Floyd’s death. BLM had a platform at that point to really make change and it went to hell in a hand basket.
 
ax1 said:
Yes that dude, fortunately that drunkard didnt attempt to drive home drunk and smash into another families car and kill a 5 year old kid because thats what happens. Im glad the police stopped him. Im not happy the dude died but come on man, you cant do that to the police its common sense you might end up with a few bullets in your head. Man up and take responsibilities for your careless mistakes.
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By the time he got shot he was less than 0 threat to the officer. He was on the ground blubbering and that cop just lost his mind.

I don't know how you can justify that kind of force and still claim to want "small government." I don't think there's any more intrusive form of government intervention than government employees killing citizens.
 
nostrum420 said:
By the time he got shot he was less than 0 threat to the officer. He was on the ground blubbering and that cop just lost his mind.

I don't know how you can justify that kind of force and still claim to want "small government." I don't think there's any more intrusive form of government intervention than government employees killing citizens.
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Its hard to know what was going in the officers head when the human body has freight and flight response. If the officer lost his mind its still the fault of the drunkard who attacked the officer. Its simple, do not try to assault an officer, just let them arrest you and go through proper due process and face your crimes of drinking and driving. Maybe there can be made a fair case that the officer needs to be relieved from active duties if there is evidence he lost composure to prevent future unfortunate instances, but murder? Come on man, that is just insane. George Floyd cop on the other hand, of course that was murder.

Drinking and driving is intrusive to American citizens, this is where government comes in to protect the life and liberties of others. And if you resist arrest and attack the officers bad things might happen. Its going to get to the point where we are just going to lose too many officers and less people wanting that job if you over police the police.
 
nostrum420 said:
By the time he got shot he was less than 0 threat to the officer. He was on the ground blubbering and that cop just lost his mind.

I don't know how you can justify that kind of force and still claim to want "small government." I don't think there's any more intrusive form of government intervention than government employees killing citizens.
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Keep in mind, you dont know what else he was on. The officer cant know and can only take a certain level of risk. My homicide detective martial arts instructor used to tell us many stories of people on PCP continue to attack in rage after getting shot multiple times, they keep charging you like their super human and hang on until the last breath trying to kill you. If you assault an officer there is potential your going down as an option.
 
Jiigzz said:
Maybe Breonna Taylor shouldnt have been asleep in her own house before cops shot her. Yeah, seems fair.

Anyone held to account yet? Nope.

What was the crime committed here?
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Breonna Taylor’s incident was a **** show, I’ll give you that. But that incident doesn’t mean officers purposely kill blacks because they’re black. It was a tragic incident but there’s nothing that shows the officers were racist. It also doesn’t mean that all other officer involved shootings are bad shoots.
 
ax1 said:
Keep in mind, you dont know what else he was on. The officer cant know and can only take a certain level of risk. My homicide detective martial arts instructor used to tell us many stories of people on PCP continue to attack in rage after getting shot multiple times, they keep charging you like their super human and hang on until the last breath trying to kill you. If you assault an officer there is potential your going down as an option.
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I was thinking of a different guy:

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ax1 said:
Keep in mind, you dont know what else he was on. The officer cant know and can only take a certain level of risk. My homicide detective martial arts instructor used to tell us many stories of people on PCP continue to attack in rage after getting shot multiple times, they keep charging you like their super human and hang on until the last breath trying to kill you. If you assault an officer there is potential your going down as an option.
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I don't think the excuse that someone could be on PCP justifies much, though. If that's the standard cops can just shoot anyone because they might have been on PCP. I'm also not sure how true that even is as your anecdote is almost verbatim a scene from the movie Terminator and may have just gotten into the zeitgeist that way.


In any case, a drunk on the loose with a taser doesn't warrant an extrajudicial killing IMO. Just my .02
 
Jiigzz said:
Do you guys seriously think you're the only country with a gang problem?
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Not at all. Mexico and the Dominican Republic have a lot of gangs that are very violent, are responsible for many horrendous murders of rival gangs and totally innocent people. And guess where some of those gang members have immigrated to? The USA. The USA also has many gangs that have been around for decades. Throw in the drug trade and jockeying for territory, you’ve got a blood bath.
 
He showed a willingness to take a taser and fire it at an officers face. Who is to say IF he had connected to tissue on the officer he didn’t have the willingness to take the LEO side arm?

I hate that the guy was completely cooperative until it came to the officer having to put him in cuffs and take him to jail. Why fight it?
 
tyga tyga said:
He showed a willingness to take a taser and fire it at an officers face. Who is to say IF he had connected to tissue on the officer he didn’t have the willingness to take the LEO side arm?

I hate that the guy was completely cooperative until it came to the officer having to put him in cuffs and take him to jail. Why fight it?
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Who's to say the whole thing wasn't an elaborate hoax and he was never really drunk at all? Who's to say the cop didn't do a stunt fall and hand the guy the taser and then the man ran because he was drunk and confused?

We can come up with ever more elaborate what if scenarios but I think if we use Occam's razor, the simplest explanation was that the guy didn't want to get arrested and was trying to run away.
 
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