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What's your COVID-19 gameplan?

thebigt said:
I asked muscleupcron to copy and paste the 1st amendment, might I ask you to do so, please.
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Are you suggesting that any regulation limiting assembly size in a single room/building/gathering is a violation of the first amendment? Yes or no? And there is a wrong answer...
 
muscleupcrohn said:
Are you suggesting that any regulation limiting assembly size in a single room/building/gathering is a violation of the first amendment? Yes or no? And there is a wrong answer...
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why don't you post up a copy of the 1st amendment so all can see, then we can discuss
 
thebigt said:
why don't you post up a copy of the 1st amendment so all can see, then we can discuss
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I know exactly where you are going with this, so I will not allow a faulty initial premise to be accepted, as then the faulty conclusion you wish to draw from it will also have to be accepted.

I will concede that laws in this pandemic may not be able to close places of worship, but they can irrefutably place limits on the number of people that can gather in a single room/building, as these are not specific to places of worship, but in general. Or are you going to tell me that building/fire codes that limit the number of people that can peacefully assemble in a single building/room are also a violation of the First Amendment? Your logic is bad man...

If you're saying they can't close Churches (as in say NO ONE is allowed to go), you may have a point. If you're saying they can't limit the number of people per gathering and how close they are to each other, you have no valid point.
 
"Freedom of religion means freedom to hold an opinion or belief, but not to take action in violation of social duties or subversive to good order."

Would nonessential congregating/gathering be an example of violating current social duties?
 
muscleupcrohn said:
I know exactly where you are going with this, so I will not allow a faulty initial premise to be accepted, as then the faulty conclusion you wish to draw from it will also have to be accepted.

I will concede that laws in this pandemic may not be able to close places of worship, but they can irrefutably place limits on the number of people that can gather in a single room/building, as these are not specific to places of worship, but in general. Or are you going to tell me that building/fire codes that limit the number of people that can peacefully assemble in a single building/room are also a violation of the First Amendment? Your logic is bad man...

If you're saying they can't close Churches (as in say NO ONE is allowed to go), you may have a point. If you're saying they can't limit the number of people per gathering and how close they are to each other, you have no valid point.
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sounds like you are trying to put words in my mouth that i haven't said...
all I asked was for you to put up a copy of the 1st amendment so all can see before we discuss....
 
Nac said:
"Freedom of religion means freedom to hold an opinion or belief, but not to take action in violation of social duties or subversive to good order."

Would nonessential congregating/gathering be an example of violating current social duties?
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I suggest you read the 1st amendment.
 
thebigt said:
sounds like you are trying to put words in my mouth that i haven't said...
all I asked was for you to put up a copy of the 1st amendment so all can see before we discuss....
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In the time you’ve spent telling me to post it multiple times, you could have posted it yourself man. If you have an argument to make, make it...

I already made mine. Now you make yours...
 
thebigt said:
I suggest you read the 1st amendment.
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I have, but I dont interpret it as an absolute right. That is, the right to peacably assemble can be further clarifed by challenging it in a court of law. Which has been done, and why we see the addend of violating social duties.

This is one of the reasons I dont follow any religion, because I think many absolute laws are too black and white and, well, absolute. Claiming that people have the right to assemble, without exception or limitation, is ridiculous.
 
thebigt said:
prove it!!!
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Prove what? You want me to copy and paste the First Amendment? You’ve spent orders of magnitude more time telling me to do it than just doing it yourself.

Then I KNOW you’re going to say how it says how people have a right to peaceably assemble, and that Congress shall not pass laws that abridge this right. Or that they shall not pass laws prohibiting the freedom to practice religion.

Now, what you fail to realize is that there are already a ton of laws on the books that place limits on how many people can gather in a single place/building/room in a house or worship. So, unless you’re telling me that fire/building codes violate the first amendment, then the orders limiting gathering sizes during this pandemic do not violate the first amendment either.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
Prove what? You want me to copy and paste the First Amendment? You’ve spent orders of magnitude more time telling me to do it than just doing it yourself.

Then I KNOW you’re going to say how it says how people have a right to peaceably assemble, and that Congress shall not pass laws that abridge this right. Or that they shall not pass laws prohibiting the exercise the freedom to practice religion.

Now, what you fail to realize is that there are already a ton of laws on the books that place limits on how many people can gather in a single place/building/room in a house or worship. So, unless you’re telling me that fire/building codes violate the first amendment, then the orders limiting gathering sizes during this pandemic do not violate the first amendment either.
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orders of magnitude...thanks, bro-I needed a laugh!!!
 
Nac said:
I have, but I dont interpret it as an absolute right. That is, the right to peacably assemble can be further clarifed by challenging it in a court of law. Which has been done, and why we see the addend of violating social duties.

This is one of the reasons I dont follow any religion, because I think many absolute laws are too black and white and, well, absolute. Claiming that people have the right to assemble, without exception or limitation, is ridiculous.
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BRB, the First Amendment allows you to make bomb threats freely, and the Second Amendment allows you to own machine guns. Got it?

/sarcasm
 
muscleupcrohn said:
BRB, the First Amendment allows you to make bomb threats freely, and the Second Amendment allows you to own machine guns. Got it?

/sarcasm
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yeah, you really know your amendments alright...NOW GET THIS see ya, time for bed. got it?
 
thebigt said:
I don't think you have even read it..
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I dont think anyone here is going to know whether it is a breach of the 1st amendment until it hits the courts, which it will:

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But as the article states, as it is not specifically targeting religion, but rather all gatherings, then it might not be a breach if the 1st amendment.

It just seems weird to me that the Bible is all about your fellow man and selflessness, yet people cant stop going to church for a few weeks in order to help flatten the curve and save lives. That to me is the opposite of what the teachings of the Bible are about.
 
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muscleupcrohn said:
BRB, the First Amendment allows you to make bomb threats freely, and the Second Amendment allows you to own machine guns. Got it?

/sarcasm
Click to expand...

I guess if youre religious and it fits your beliefs, it might be tempting to see the First Amendment etc as some kind of non-challengeable scripture that is omni-encompassing?
 
Anyways all the best guys, let's hope you guys can contain it.
 
Jiigzz said:
I dont think anyone here is going to know whether it is a breach of the 1st amendment until it hits the courts, which it will:

Invalid Link Removed

But as the article states, as it is not specifically targeting religion, but rather all gatherings, then it might not be a breach if the 1st amendment.

It just seems weird to me that the Bible is all about your fellow man and selflessness, yet people cant stop going to church for a few weeks in order to help flatten the curve and save lives. That to me is the opposite of what the teachings of the Bible are about.
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Exactly. Good article (and the articles it links to). And you’re spot on about following the teachings of the Bible. If the only way I know you’re a Christian is because you shout it from the rooftops, then I have to wonder how well you’re actually applying said teachings. Jesus’ life WAS his greatest teaching, and an example for us to strive for, even if we are not perfect. Even people who aren’t Christian can learn from Jesus’ example. If the only time you’re a Christian is Sunday morning, then you’re just wasting your time. What about the other 6 days of the week? And the rest of Sunday? Is the point of going to Church not to help you learn to better follow the example and teachings of of Jesus? So yeah, check that attendance box on Sunday, claiming to be selfless, while you expose thousands of people to a potentially deadly virus. Talk about missing the point!
 
Anyone not paying their rent/mortgage this month? Just wanted to get your opinions. Lol, property taxes are still due...
 
puccah8808 said:
Anyone not paying their rent/mortgage this month? Just wanted to get your opinions. Lol, property taxes are still due...
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I would at least let whoever you normally pay know, maybe try to work something out with them before you just don’t pay, but I’m no lawyer, and I didn’t stay at a Holiday Inn Express.

I did hear that they’re freezing payments on all student loans owned by the Department of Education for like 6 months IIRC.

The people I rent from already have my last month and security, and there’s been WAY more loud and disruptive building construction than they said there’d be (loud noises, less parking, no hot water some days, etc.) and now we’re stuck indoors during it, so I’m thinking they don’t really deserve full rent during this, if for their dishonesty and nothing else, and I’m not getting everything I’m paying for if I have to park at the building next door and can’t take a hot shower whenever I want.
 
My bank is more than willing to let me go on a mortgage "holiday", but just like any holiday, it aint free (interest can still accrue, or youre extending the term of your mortgage).

Ill only take them up on their generosity if I really trully need to.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
I would at least let whoever you normally pay know, maybe try to work something out with them before you just don’t pay, but I’m no lawyer, and I didn’t stay at a Holiday Inn Express.

I did hear that they’re freezing payments on all student loans owned by the Department of Education for like 6 months IIRC.

The people I rent from already have my last month and security, and there’s been WAY more loud and disruptive building construction than they said there’d be (loud noises, less parking, no hot water some days, etc.) and now we’re stuck indoors during it, so I’m thinking they don’t really deserve full rent during this, if for their dishonesty and nothing else, and I’m not getting everything I’m paying for if I have to park at the building next door and can’t take a hot shower whenever I want.
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Lol, I need that freeze! That’s shitty!!! I don’t miss renting at all!

Nac said:
My bank is more than willing to let me go on a mortgage "holiday", but just like any holiday, it aint free (interest can still accrue, or youre extending the term of your mortgage).

Ill only take them up on their generosity if I really trully need to.
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That’s nice of your bank. I don’t want to detour from any payments at all! I have my mortgage and property taxes due this month. 🤷🏽‍♀️🤦🏽‍♀️ I’m staying positive and is grateful that I am still working and is able to pay.
 
puccah8808 said:
Lol, I need that freeze! That’s shitty!!! I don’t miss renting at all!



That’s nice of your bank. I don’t want to detour from any payments at all! I have my mortgage and property taxes due this month. 🤷🏽‍♀️🤦🏽‍♀️ I’m staying positive and is grateful that I am still working and is able to pay.
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From Navient:
As part of the new federal legislation passed on Friday, March 27, 2020, we are working to suspend payments on all U.S. Department of Education (ED) owned loans by 4/10/2020 – the suspension will be in place until 9/30/2020. Once your eligible loans have been updated, Navient will notify you in writing, or you can always check back to this page for any related COVID-19 updates on your Navient serviced loans.
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And from Studentaid.gov:
From March 13, 2020, through Sept. 30, 2020, the interest rate is 0% on the following types of federal student loans owned by ED:

Defaulted and nondefaulted Direct Loans
Defaulted and nondefaulted FFEL Program loans
Federal Perkins Loans
Please note that some FFEL Program loans are owned by commercial lenders, and some Perkins Loans are owned by the institution you attended. These loans are not eligible for this benefit at this time.
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Jiigzz said:
I dont think anyone here is going to know whether it is a breach of the 1st amendment until it hits the courts, which it will:

Invalid Link Removed
It just seems weird to me that the Bible is all about your fellow man and selflessness, yet people cant stop going to church for a few weeks in order to help flatten the curve and save lives. That to me is the opposite of what the teachings of the Bible are about.
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Actually, like I said previously, my church and all in my area have suspended services until further notice as well as the churches that friends of mine go to in Atlanta. So, I don’t know how many are still gathering elsewhere but thousands of people between those 2 cities aren’t anymore. And another church I follow has 60,000 members across 17 locations who also have suspended meeting in person. I just hope we realize that a lot of us are following social distancing and quarantine orders/recommendations.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
From Navient:


And from Studentaid.gov:
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Thanks! I haven’t even graduated and have been bombarded with emails am from Navient. This will give me some breathing room.
 
What’s frustrating me is I can’t find Clorox or Lysol wipes anymore. I didn’t panic buy a thousand and everything I’m seeing is out of stock for a while. Anyone know of any places still in stock that can deliver? Where’s the black market disinfectant wipes???!!! 😂
 
GreenMachineX said:
What’s frustrating me is I can’t find Clorox or Lysol wipes anymore. I didn’t panic buy a thousand and everything I’m seeing is out of stock for a while. Anyone know of any places still in stock that can deliver? Where’s the black market disinfectant wipes???!!! 😂
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My work had to provide some for us because they are sold out everywhere. It's a bit daunting. I mean to say, have they stopped producing them? What about Toilet Paper? Paper Towels? They are out everywhere.

How much does anyone need? I'd be happy with a bottle for the house that would last a month for the both of us.
It's ridiculous how many people hoarded the stuff. You can buy bleach, and put one cap full in 2-3 cups of water and then place a white rag inside so you can use that, but I'd rather not.

I'm on the constant lookout for forage some basics, and not so much for me as I am pretty much able to stay at home.
It's irritating. If I find a source then I will share it here for you guys.

Edit: Update.

I just went to Amazon, and noticed this under all hand sanitizer listings.
"Available only for hospitals and government agencies directly responding to COVID-19"
 
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justhere4comm said:
My work had to provide some for us because they are sold out everywhere. It's a bit daunting. I mean to say, have they stopped producing them? What about Toilet Paper? Paper Towels? They are out everywhere.

How much does anyone need? I'd be happy with a bottle for the house that would last a month for the both of us.
It's ridiculous how many people hoarded the stuff. You can buy bleach, and put one cap full in 2-3 cups of water and then place a white rag inside so you can use that, but I'd rather not.

I'm on the constant lookout for forage some basics, and not so much for me as I am pretty much able to stay at home.
It's irritating. If I find a source then I will share it here for you guys.

Edit: Update.

I just went to Amazon, and noticed this under all hand sanitizer listings.
"Available only for hospitals and government agencies directly responding to COVID-19"
Click to expand...

There was footage on the news around here of people with buggies full of anything lysol related, hand sanitizer, toilet paper, paper towels, etc... it was crazy

Hoarding seems to have slowed down a tad, but we're about to go on full lockdown (our mayor has a conference at 11AM) and im preparing myself for the inevitable.. Im all stocked up on food and hopefully household necessities
 
DA_MOSS said:
There was footage on the news around here of people with buggies full of anything lysol related, hand sanitizer, toilet paper, paper towels, etc... it was crazy

Hoarding seems to have slowed down a tad, but we're about to go on full lockdown (our mayor has a conference at 11AM) and im preparing myself for the inevitable.. Im all stocked up on food and hopefully household necessities
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I hope everyone here is ok and remains safe. My heart goes out to all of you regardless of our leanings politically.
 
justhere4comm said:
I hope everyone here is ok and remains safe. My heart goes out to all of you regardless of our leanings politically.
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thank you...I will say a prayer for you and your wife...sincerely hope you both make it thru this!!!
 
So, this is news to me and I haven't seen anyone bring this up.
A friend who's a virologist told me there are two strains of Covid-19.
A strain that causes severe issues, and the other that is light on symptoms.

This could explain how some younger people are dying and quite young at that.
I had no idea.
 
justhere4comm said:
So, this is news to me and I haven't seen anyone bring this up.
A friend who's a virologist told me there are two strains of Covid-19.
A strain that causes severe issues, and the other that is light on symptoms.

This could explain how some younger people are dying and quite young at that.
I had no idea.
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Yeah, that would make some sense. I think they are still figuring it all out though. I think the "asymptomatic" carriers may be overblown. I think they may only be the healthiest if the healthiest and not as much as we think - which is going to be a real blow to the "the death rate is lower than they say" people.

I have seen that a recent study has shown hydroxy chloroquine is NOT working. I have also seen another study that shows another anti parasitic, ivermectin, totally wipes out Covid in a Petri dish but it is way to early to say if it will be if any use in humans.

I hope it works, because I have a bottle of it in my kitchen cabinet. It is an injectable drug used mostly in veterinary medicine for things like heart worms in dogs and some use in humans. I am not about to use it on a human without more studies though.
 
DA_MOSS said:
There was footage on the news around here of people with buggies full of anything lysol related, hand sanitizer, toilet paper, paper towels, etc... it was crazy

Hoarding seems to have slowed down a tad, but we're about to go on full lockdown (our mayor has a conference at 11AM) and im preparing myself for the inevitable.. Im all stocked up on food and hopefully household necessities
Click to expand...
What area is going full lockdown?
 
GreenMachineX said:
What area is going full lockdown?
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I have not heard of any area doing a full, actual "shelter-in-place," despite multiple municipalities incorrectly calling their "stay-home-stay-safe" orders "shelter-in-place." The stay home stay safe orders make exceptions for essential services, both going to them for goods/services, as well as going to work at said essential services. Going out for walks and whatnot with proper social distancing is also allowed. Under an actual shelter in place, no travel is allowed, at all, period. It's reserved for acute dangerous situations, like active shooters, bomb threats, etc.
 
justhere4comm said:
So, this is news to me and I haven't seen anyone bring this up.
A friend who's a virologist told me there are two strains of Covid-19.
A strain that causes severe issues, and the other that is light on symptoms.

This could explain how some younger people are dying and quite young at that.
I had no idea.
Click to expand...

It's still mutating, so total number of strains probably won't be known until it's all over, but there were two identified pretty much at the start: S and L. I believe L is the more severe.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
I have not heard of any area doing a full, actual "shelter-in-place," despite multiple municipalities incorrectly calling their "stay-home-stay-safe" orders "shelter-in-place." The stay home stay safe orders make exceptions for essential services, both going to them for goods/services, as well as going to work at said essential services. Going out for walks and whatnot with proper social distancing is also allowed. Under an actual shelter in place, no travel is allowed, at all, period. It's reserved for acute dangerous situations, like active shooters, bomb threats, etc.
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I live in a small city [64,000]in Indiana....our governor has us on essential workers and trips to grocery/pharmacy's. there really aren't many stores open other than the ones mentioned plus liquor stores, but Walmart and krogers are packed and most aren't following the 6 foot guideline. we have only had a handful of confirmed cases, hopefully if it get worse the people here will be more compliant.
 
thebigt said:
I live in a small city [64,000]in Indiana....our governor has us on essential workers and trips to grocery/pharmacy's. there really aren't many stores open other than the ones mentioned plus liquor stores, but Walmart and krogers are packed and most aren't following the 6 foot guideline. we have only had a handful of confirmed cases, hopefully if it get worse the people here will be more compliant.
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Town of Palm Beach in Florida has advised Publix to handle things better too:
• The Town has strongly encouraged the management of Publix to identify and implement additional solutions to ensure compliance with CDC social distancing guidelines for their customers and workers.

o We have asked that they safely limit the number of people who can be in the store at one time and better manage the flow of customers in and out of the store.
o Because of narrowness of aisles, we’ve recommended they make them one-way.
o We’ve recommended they identify a “movement coordinator” inside and outside of the store to ensure shoppers are maintaining safe distances from each other.
o We’ve requested they consider installing hand sanitizing dispensers at entrances.
o The hours of 8:00 AM – 9:00 AM and 11:00 AM – 1:00 PM appear to be peak times, so it is advised that you shop outside of these hours when the store in less busy.
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Hopefully people will take this seriously and just follow proper social distancing protocols, but people suck sometimes.

That said, I'm really not a fan of places incorrectly calling their orders "shelter in place," as that's NOT what they are, and, if they ever have to issue an actual shelter in place, no one will know what it means, and it can cost lives. Stay home stay safe is what these are.
 
thebigt said:
I live in a small city [64,000]in Indiana....our governor has us on essential workers and trips to grocery/pharmacy's. there really aren't many stores open other than the ones mentioned plus liquor stores, but Walmart and krogers are packed and most aren't following the 6 foot guideline. we have only had a handful of confirmed cases, hopefully if it get worse the people here will be more compliant.
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Do you guys have limits on how many people can be in an establishment at a time based in square footage?

We are limited to something like this:

Pharmacies: 15 people
Grocery stores: 50-75 people (sized dependent)
Lowes/Walmart: 100 people
 
muscleupcrohn said:
Town of Palm Beach in Florida has advised Publix to handle things better too:


Invalid Link Removed

Hopefully people will take this seriously and just follow proper social distancing protocols, but people suck sometimes.

That said, I'm really not a fan of places incorrectly calling their orders "shelter in place," as that's NOT what they are, and, if they ever have to issue an actual shelter in place, no one will know what it means, and it can cost lives. Stay home stay safe is what these are.
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those are great guidelines, I wish they would issue them to the stores here where I live...limiting amount of people in store and making aisles one way sounds like very good guidelines to me. I hope my city continues to be LUCKY. as in most small city's the young people move out to bigger city's as soon as they are able and the population here is mostly older, especially with indiana state students not in school.
 
Ricky10 said:
Do you guys have limits on how many people can be in an establishment at a time based in square footage?

We are limited to something like this:

Pharmacies: 15 people
Grocery stores: 50-75 people (sized dependent)
Lowes/Walmart: 100 people
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no restrictions like that on any store that is still open...my wife and I are avoiding dollar tree, we went by there yesterday and parking lot was packed, and people were going in and out reckless of how close they were. krogers and Walmart aren't really all that much better...but like I said we have been lucky so far, I think only 7 confirmed cases.
 
Aleksandar37 said:
It's still mutating, so total number of strains probably won't be known until it's all over, but there were two identified pretty much at the start: S and L. I believe L is the more severe.
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Yeah, I guess it potentially mutates ever so slightly each time it infects a new person, as to make itself more inabitable in its new host. I feel like I’m warding off demons! Well, more than usual anyway...
 
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