Anyone worried if Corona virus keeps spreading the gyms will shut down?
- Thread starter JoePaul39
- Start date
JoePaul39
Well-known member
Why are the Dems after they obstructed the Senate relief bill not the once, but twice packing their economic relief bill with unrelated things to serve as a political opportunity for their left wing agenda at a time when Americans are in desperate need of relief? READ BELOW
“The bill proposed by Pelosi, D-Calif., additionally seeks to eliminate debt held by the U.S. Postal Service, require same-day voter registration, pay off $10,000 in student debt per person, mandate that airlines reduce their overall carbon emissions by 50 percent by 2050, and force federal agencies to explain to Congress how they are increasing their usage of "minority banks."
And, the legislation would provide for the automatic extension of nonimmigrant visas and restrict colleges from providing information about citizenship status.”
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“The bill proposed by Pelosi, D-Calif., additionally seeks to eliminate debt held by the U.S. Postal Service, require same-day voter registration, pay off $10,000 in student debt per person, mandate that airlines reduce their overall carbon emissions by 50 percent by 2050, and force federal agencies to explain to Congress how they are increasing their usage of "minority banks."
And, the legislation would provide for the automatic extension of nonimmigrant visas and restrict colleges from providing information about citizenship status.”
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jrock645
Well-known member
well... people have to eat somehow. Government food lines aren’t an option because social distancing... There’s no perfect solution for any of this.
jrock645
Well-known member
Well, I’m about as big a fan of the stuff the Dems snuck in there as I am the corporate bailout stuff. And the income tiers and restrictions make no sense. I don’t really care how much somebody was making(within reason), if they’re out of work because of this shut down, they deserve as much help as anyone. This whole bill was a disaster.
xR1pp3Rx
Legend
so its ok to bail out the middle class but not the corporations that employ them? Im just pointing out the blarring problem with this statement. or did I miss your point?.. besides the fact that the "bail out" as your calling it, is meant to be targeted at small and med sized businesses.. but i guess everyone missed that.
Whisky
Well-known member
by all accounts it’s mutated and now there are two variants.
I think (this is my personal view, not saying I can back this up) that part of the reason governments are so scared is the speed with which this went from animal to human transmission, then human to human and then it mutated. It was all very very quick, I’ve seen some scientists suggest that further mutations could affect a wider sub set of the population.
the reactions would make a lot of sense in that context.......
justhere4comm
Banned
No, I think your feelings on the matter are on target. This could be worse than The Spanish Flue by far.
It can have a third mutation easily that accelerates and expands on it's victim base. The second mutation may have already.
It can have a third mutation easily that accelerates and expands on it's victim base. The second mutation may have already.
BamBam54
Well-known member
The only slightly good news (if true) from the Presidents corona briefing yesterday was about estimated total spread. Most epidemiology studies say it takes 60-70% of the population to get the virus before it reaches a herd immunity level to stop pandemic spread. However, the lady at podium yesterday said that total would be expected to take 2-3 cycles (seasons/years) and we would likely have a vaccine before then. Thus the gov't is only estimating now that roughly 30 million americans get the virus in this first wave.
Still terrible in many of the same ways. Still spreading fast, killing more every day, and projected to dramatically overwhelm our hospital capacity in a couple of weeks and nowhere near the peak. Still watching Italy and Spain (... and New York) to see what is likely to happen next.
Still terrible in many of the same ways. Still spreading fast, killing more every day, and projected to dramatically overwhelm our hospital capacity in a couple of weeks and nowhere near the peak. Still watching Italy and Spain (... and New York) to see what is likely to happen next.
justhere4comm
Banned
10,000 new cases overnight.
So much for the President's Economy Startup in a week.
It would be irresponsible and could cost 10's of thousands of lives lost unnecessarily, if not more.
Our rate of infection could eclipse China's if this continues to accelerate. They had an advantage over us, if you can call it that, but it was the rule of law and iron fist in quarantine. We don't do that here in the USA. We don't play that way, and I get it. Self-quarantine is always best, but 100,000,000 people under mandatory self-quarantine still leaves another 2/3 of the USA to self-quarantine.
I'm aghast at the fool at the steering wheel of Florida. That SFB SA MF moron will not shut down Florida.
Talk about idiots. Does he want to kill off the elderly here in FLA?
One of my friends whom works technology in a retirement home. She's home quarantined because of other's stupidity.
I'm so pissed right now. Minor fever. Good thing she's young and has no health issues, but her wife is sick too. Soar throat, mild temperature. They are both like daughters to us.
*You know the idiot that brought it home with her? Well, she's not the idiot, it was a work-mate that came to work sick and did not respect her space. How could her work place let her come in and not send her home? Where are the precautions?
So much for the President's Economy Startup in a week.
It would be irresponsible and could cost 10's of thousands of lives lost unnecessarily, if not more.
Our rate of infection could eclipse China's if this continues to accelerate. They had an advantage over us, if you can call it that, but it was the rule of law and iron fist in quarantine. We don't do that here in the USA. We don't play that way, and I get it. Self-quarantine is always best, but 100,000,000 people under mandatory self-quarantine still leaves another 2/3 of the USA to self-quarantine.
I'm aghast at the fool at the steering wheel of Florida. That SFB SA MF moron will not shut down Florida.
Talk about idiots. Does he want to kill off the elderly here in FLA?
One of my friends whom works technology in a retirement home. She's home quarantined because of other's stupidity.
I'm so pissed right now. Minor fever. Good thing she's young and has no health issues, but her wife is sick too. Soar throat, mild temperature. They are both like daughters to us.
*You know the idiot that brought it home with her? Well, she's not the idiot, it was a work-mate that came to work sick and did not respect her space. How could her work place let her come in and not send her home? Where are the precautions?
Smont
Legend
Keep in mind a lot of places just started testing. And you can't just walk in and get tested, you gotta go through a process. At least where I live. A lot of these new cases her not really new, they're just being discovered because they just started testing. In Connecticut we went from 50 to 500. but then again there's also probably way more people who have it because not everyone's getting tested
HIT4ME
Well-known member
THIS is the issue. The sick 80 year old isn't out infecting others. They are in the hospital. It is the sick 40 year old who thinks this is all hysteria and is out infecting others because he/she feels fine and isn't worried about getting sick. And it isn't 1-2 of them. It is thousands if them.
And I include myself in this group. I am 40 years old and I have been trying to avoid stores and stay at home, but still need to food shop and still have other things I need to get done that have required trips to lowes, etc. I could be doing better and I am now trying to avoid all unnecessary interactions that could expose me (especially since my gf has a pretty life threatening auto-immune disease and severe asthma).
And I include myself in this group. I am 40 years old and I have been trying to avoid stores and stay at home, but still need to food shop and still have other things I need to get done that have required trips to lowes, etc. I could be doing better and I am now trying to avoid all unnecessary interactions that could expose me (especially since my gf has a pretty life threatening auto-immune disease and severe asthma).
justhere4comm
Banned
Same boat but I’m 55. Wife has asthma.
jrock645
Well-known member
The problem with bailing out corporations is it does absolutely nothing to keep people working. Remember when we bailed out GM? They took the money and still closed down plants. You really think the American taxpayer got their money's worth there? Or how about when we bailed out the airlines after 9/11? They took the money, then raised prices, made seats smaller, invented new fees to charge, made the overall experience a lesser one and had the nerve to call it innovation. Not to even mention these corporate bailouts funded companies just buying back their own stock and continuing to pay CEO's outrageous salaries, all while continuing to shrink the size of their staff. You REALLY think that's a good use of taxpayer money?
Mathb33
Well-known member
justhere4comm
Banned
The last I was in college was 2004.
I don't watch CNN.
What is it he stated did not happen? I was here. It did, they did. Workers were not helped, nor were customers.
We need to insist when a company is bailed out, they do the right thing with the money, or at least don't reward poor performance with bonuses and profit taking for the stockholders... that's wrong. (Stock buybacks)
If you run your company down, and are bailed out by the government, isn't that socialism?
Also, what the heck is it when they do it because they aren't prepared for emergencies?
I am only saying, the people now need to be bailed out from this economic stall do to a disease, not large companies.
What's wrong with that?
I don't watch CNN.
What is it he stated did not happen? I was here. It did, they did. Workers were not helped, nor were customers.
We need to insist when a company is bailed out, they do the right thing with the money, or at least don't reward poor performance with bonuses and profit taking for the stockholders... that's wrong. (Stock buybacks)
If you run your company down, and are bailed out by the government, isn't that socialism?
Also, what the heck is it when they do it because they aren't prepared for emergencies?
I am only saying, the people now need to be bailed out from this economic stall do to a disease, not large companies.
What's wrong with that?
BamBam54
Well-known member
The fact that we still had airlines and GM yesterday, is because of the previous bailout. If we do not have an airline industry tomorrow... it is because Pelosi insisted on green new deal junk stuffed into the coronavirus bill. How does THAT help taxpayers in this medical crisis?
justhere4comm
Banned
Wait, students cannot get bailed out from their student loans because it's their responsibility and they signed the loans..
Ok, how about LOANS instead of bailouts for large corporations? They have to pay them back. I'd be on board.
Forget the students.
They don't need to eat or pay rent during this crisis and being out of work, but let them pay those overblown predatory loans down a fraction. That's what's important.
As far as the Green New Deal, that's not a response to my post is it?
How did they worker and customer do on those bailouts?... Prices went up, workers got fractional if any money.ou
Ok, how about LOANS instead of bailouts for large corporations? They have to pay them back. I'd be on board.
Forget the students.
They don't need to eat or pay rent during this crisis and being out of work, but let them pay those overblown predatory loans down a fraction. That's what's important.
As far as the Green New Deal, that's not a response to my post is it?
How did they worker and customer do on those bailouts?... Prices went up, workers got fractional if any money.ou
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jrock645
Well-known member
funny you should say that, as I’m really the furthest thing from a liberal. I just fail to see why tax payers should fund corporations who then bail on the people that funded them. Explain the logic in that.
puccah8808
Legend
My school is letting students borrow $500 but of course there’s a fee, and they need to pay it back within 3 months or they’ll have to pay a high interest.
jrock645
Well-known member
Cant stress the bolded part enough. How can you be anti socialism(which I am), yet be all for hand outs for corporations? It makes no sense.
justhere4comm
Banned
I'm logical. Everyone has a crisis now and then and deserve to be helped by society.
I'm not a socialist maybe?
It's not a handout I would support, but loans that require repayment with interest.
I also think churches should pay taxes.
Edit:
Just imagine what a kick start the economy would get if all student loans were forgiven.
Those people would spend when all was open again, and business would be on a cycle to success.
jrock645
Well-known member
I'm logical. Everyone has a crisis now and then and deserve to be helped by society.
I'm not a socialist maybe?
It's not a handout I would support, but loans that require repayment with interest.
I also think churches should pay taxes.
Edit:
Just imagine what a kick start the economy would get if all student loans were forgiven.
Those people would spend when all was open again, and business would be on a cycle to success.
Eh, I’m not on the student loan forgiveness train. That said, something needs to be done about the escalating cost of higher ed, the predatory loans, and this thing we’ve created where everyone “needs” to go to college just to get a job. I made it without a degree, and have a real hard time with the idea of putting the cost of everyone else’s education on people like myself.
justhere4comm
Banned
I'd give my degrees back; you only need a H.S. Diploma where I work at any level; even engineering.
Do you think they'll refund for a redaction?
Do you think they'll refund for a redaction?
xR1pp3Rx
Legend
Again the relief package is aimed at medium and small business. You are forgetting this is capitalism and you have no reason to harbor any hate on Corps. Your life and mine are positively impacted and will continue to be so, now and forever thanks to corporations. Last I heard both GM and Chrysler have paid back the principle on their bail out loans.. further you throw a blind eye to all the BS regulations the airline industry had to succumb to after 911.. of course they had to get creative to offset costs.. have you or do you run a business? I have so I understand it at an intimate level. the regulations placed on companies are more of an issue than you seem to care to admit. the picture you paint is a black and white one that leaves out the entire pallet of business related dealings that cause some of the issues you mention.
HIT4ME
Well-known member
I think it is easy to miss some of the nuance here - just like I was saying a degree is useless to YOU when you are in a society that has uneducated people; a company is useless in a society that has no resources to support it. i.e. - The company needs supplies and workers, and customers who can afford to buy the finished product.
I'm not for hand outs, and of course I am more for supporting the individual than the big corporation (within some reason as corporations do, in turn, provide support to the individual in some ways) - most people live paycheck to paycheck and when they are no longer employees or customers, it doesn't matter if we are capitalist or socialist - nothing works.
If we had unlimited resources, any form of economics would work. With unlimited resources we could all live in big houses and have plenty of free time, and plenty of TVs and electronics and cars, etc. - and everyone would have everything they ever dreamed of, so who cares if we are socialists or capitalists at that point?
On the other end of the spectrum, with no resources - what does it matter how you distribute them? There's nothing to distribute.
I'm not for hand outs, and of course I am more for supporting the individual than the big corporation (within some reason as corporations do, in turn, provide support to the individual in some ways) - most people live paycheck to paycheck and when they are no longer employees or customers, it doesn't matter if we are capitalist or socialist - nothing works.
If we had unlimited resources, any form of economics would work. With unlimited resources we could all live in big houses and have plenty of free time, and plenty of TVs and electronics and cars, etc. - and everyone would have everything they ever dreamed of, so who cares if we are socialists or capitalists at that point?
On the other end of the spectrum, with no resources - what does it matter how you distribute them? There's nothing to distribute.
HIT4ME
Well-known member
I do agree with you here. Forgiving student loans only allows colleges to further increase costs. If it gets to the point where people aren't actually going to pay for it themselves, then who cares what the cost is? If it's $500,000 I will take the loan because I know it will be forgiven. What does it matter?
This is kind of what happened with healthcare. If I need treatment, what does the cost matter? Insurance has to pay it. So if they bill $100 to open a band-aid...whatever.
jrock645
Well-known member
when you reference bs regulations and the airlines after 911... what are you referencing? And exactly what is bs about it? I get a paycheck, and in exchange for it I sometimes have to do things and abide by rules I don’t really agree with. It’s part of the deal. Need a loan? You have to agree to might not be convenient for you. Same thing. If a corporation takes government money, there’s strings attached just like for the rest of us. Why should it be any different? Really have that big of a problem with it, then don’t take the money. Seems you’ve been completely brainwashed by the corporate lobby.
I actually do run a business... a multimillion dollar a year foodservice operation. Save your lectures for somebody else.
And for the record, I never said I hate corporations. Care to find where I said that? You can’t. Now stfu.
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justhere4comm
Banned
Look at us. Arguing as if we have a choice in the matter of this lock down pandemic.
It sure does bring tempers and opinion to bare on one another.
We can at least agree we are of one mind when it comes to this forum and what we all seek to do.
Thoughts of novel solutions to our various personal issues with government be damned for all I care.
It's a thought to scavenge for some kind of magic bullet to solve issues, but truly when the greed and weakness of man is at the core of most discussions relative to the state of politics; one can never be certain. I'll not lose sleep if in my life none of it is solved to any satisfaction; any more than the last 200 years.
It sure does bring tempers and opinion to bare on one another.
We can at least agree we are of one mind when it comes to this forum and what we all seek to do.
Thoughts of novel solutions to our various personal issues with government be damned for all I care.
It's a thought to scavenge for some kind of magic bullet to solve issues, but truly when the greed and weakness of man is at the core of most discussions relative to the state of politics; one can never be certain. I'll not lose sleep if in my life none of it is solved to any satisfaction; any more than the last 200 years.
xR1pp3Rx
Legend
fair enough.. you didn't say that but your words paint that picture.. perhaps you should choose your words more careful like this: "hey jrock go fist yourself!! " see what i did there?
HIT4ME
Well-known member
manifesto
Well-known member
Excellent point...I had what I thought was a terrible flu in February, but now i wonder if I had the Corona Virus...
manifesto
Well-known member
They arent running themselves down...they were forced to shut down
jrock645
Well-known member
Not factually accurate. No government entity has shut down airlines or closed hotels. They are still operating. Try again.
jswain34
Well-known member
^watched that on Saturday. I love the reproductive ratio and series interval talk comparing covid and flu. Also explains the pathophys of how pulmonary fibrosis coule develop...super educational video. Was gonna share but didnt think people would take the time to watch it lol.
jswain34
Well-known member
^watched that on Saturday. I love the reproductive ratio and series interval talk comparing covid and flu. Also explains the pathophys of how pulmonary fibrosis coule develop...super educational video. Was gonna share but didnt think people would take the time to watch it lol.
HIT4ME
Well-known member
This is worth a watch. This guy is the greatest:
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Yeah, I've watched a few of his videos in the past. You really have to invest something in his work. He knows his stuff and is great at explaining it, but it's not always easy to grasp. I haven't finished it yet - but the series interval stuff is great, I agree.
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Yeah, I've watched a few of his videos in the past. You really have to invest something in his work. He knows his stuff and is great at explaining it, but it's not always easy to grasp. I haven't finished it yet - but the series interval stuff is great, I agree.
thebigt
Legend
higher education is great if going towards a advanced degree which in turn will equate to higher earnings...the great hoax is pushing even average or below high school students to think they HAVE to have a college degree. to go deeply into debt getting a liberal arts degree is insane. imo!!!
maximillia
Member
This is my theory. Tell me If I am wrong. I feel that we are basically testing how long the worldwide economy can hold out in this quarantine. After that time ends, and I have no clue how long that is, the disease will blow up again. I don't believe the spread of this disease can be stopped and I don't think anybody else does either. It seems to me to be common sense that the curve can be flattened only so long as people can stay home, which clearly isn't forever.
The question I am struggling with right now is, will the disease blow up exactly like it would have after the curfews end? Care to comment? If the answer is yes, then I am worried the quarantine will do more bad than good. Like I said previously, in this case, the only merit of the quarantine would have been additional time provided for more makeshift medical facilities, which is ongoing across the world. That would be cool. So I guess that does justify the quarantine. Maybe we will end up having cyclical shut downs- start up, disease blows up, shut down, repeat. That's probably extremely impractical.
To be honest with you right now, I am more afraid of an economic collapse than the disease. That's not just because I am young. Some young people have died from the disease as well, I am not invincible. It's just, I don't want to frickin starve.
Also, If you are worried about some loved one, isolate them, for such a time when the quarantine ends.
The question I am struggling with right now is, will the disease blow up exactly like it would have after the curfews end? Care to comment? If the answer is yes, then I am worried the quarantine will do more bad than good. Like I said previously, in this case, the only merit of the quarantine would have been additional time provided for more makeshift medical facilities, which is ongoing across the world. That would be cool. So I guess that does justify the quarantine. Maybe we will end up having cyclical shut downs- start up, disease blows up, shut down, repeat. That's probably extremely impractical.
To be honest with you right now, I am more afraid of an economic collapse than the disease. That's not just because I am young. Some young people have died from the disease as well, I am not invincible. It's just, I don't want to frickin starve.
Also, If you are worried about some loved one, isolate them, for such a time when the quarantine ends.
thebigt
Legend
I feel democrats are pushing trump farther down the hole than he wants to go...fortunately trump is a business man and is resisting democrats who want to crush the economy.
maximillia
Member
I don't know what you are talking about. Bagging a million dollars in debt for a smashing women's studies degree is one of the best investments out there right now.
thebigt
Legend
lol....
Renew1
Legend
Yep.
maximillia
Member
Half your country (liberals) are insane, take it from me. The dialogue, if you don't like it? leave, doesn't work in most places, but it works well in America. I mean seriously, leave. Wherever you go will probably be worse. Anyway, I have been neglecting reading up on things because it's so stressful. Man, Was I right. Just went on reddit, and I see people panic buying everything, the authorities being confused about what to shut down and what to leave open, bloody hell. Online delivery isn't working great. sigh.
HIT4ME
Well-known member
I am always for questioning assumptions and this post does that. It is good to question common accepted thoughts.
I think you COULD be right. But a few things could happen. With social distancing that need to be accounted for:
1. I believe the following is possible: this is a novel virus. It needs to replicate in a living organism in order to "survive". If it is not allowed to infect anything, it could die off and be gone. This is unlikely since it would mean we would have to reach a point where no living humans at all are infected and any other animals it could potentially infect.
2. The warm weather could effect it and it could die off (again wishful thinking)
3. We could discover improved treatment for the disease - vaccines, protections, treatments that reduce mortality rates. This is the most likely solution, IMO. If we get a vaccine, this becomes a MUCH less impactful issue. If we reduce the mortality rate, rates if infection, etc. - this becomes much less if an issue.
All of these outcomes require time, and the lack of social distancing will reduce time and increase deaths immediately. We have run multiple tests now to prove this. China was locked down. Italy, less so and the results were far more devastating. The US is following a similar curve...less adherence and rapidly increasing effects.
But, questioning where the line is, is intelligent. Trump said it himself I believe - the cure cannot be worse than the disease. Short term, I think this makes sense. And we may have to go into cycles of work and quarantine until we figure out a better treatment.
As far as questioning norms - it seems appropriate here to mention Ignaz Samelweiss during this time. He questioned norms and was ridiculed heavily for it. And all we hear during this epidemic is the advice he pioneered.
Renew1
Legend
Good post.