Anyone worried if Corona virus keeps spreading the gyms will shut down?
- Thread starter JoePaul39
- Start date
muscleupcrohn
Legend
You've already shown a fundamental lack of understanding of engineering/construction, yet feel fully confident to talk about what's best and what will happen as if you're an expert. That's why I'm being frank/harsh with you. You state opinion as fact...
muscleupcrohn
Legend
Perfect. Honestly, we're wasting our time here at this point. You just succinctly epitomized his logic. I couldn't have said it any better.
HIT4ME
Well-known member
Yeah, brevity is kind if my thing. (Or sarcasm...I can't remember which.)
Since I posted the Feynman video on here earlier I had some more pop up on Youtube and he was talking about these scientific issues and how people will bring up issues with whatever theory is out there. And he said, "Anyone really studying this stuff is fully aware of these issues. The problem is, what do you replace the idea with?"
justhere4comm
Banned
Do not trust them (LA Fitness). Ask for a cancel now and see what happens.
They will not open in April. That's 8 days away.
They will not open in April. That's 8 days away.
maximillia
Member
Look. You should go and read what I stated in the beginning, again. I said I thought America could do it. It's an opinion, yes. Don't go around taking it so seriously. If it can't happen, it can't happen, fine. I got no vested interest here. You have somehow also concluded that I recommend going about life as normal, right now. I only said that the quarantine will end. That's a fact. People can do whatever they want in that time.
maximillia
Member
All I see is you trying to think of me as some expert. I never said I am an expert, on anything. Just being frank. You asked if I knew economics, And I told you I do. If you don't know that a recession will set in, I assume you are not interested in Economics.
JoePaul39
Well-known member
I never said they would be open in April. if something is in writing regarding the refund they will do what they say in regards to freezing the account or they would be subject to a possible class action lawsuit that they would surely lose since they sent out that email.. Trust is only needed if you are taking their word for something.
muscleupcrohn
Legend
If you're not an expert, then don't present your uneducated opinions as facts as you have been doing. You said what IS the "wisest" thing to do, and stated as fact what CAN be done in terms of building infrastructure. You were wrong on those fronts. If you had said "I think," that's one thing, but that's not what you did man.
And I never said that quarantines won't result in a recession; I'm saying that if we end up with a double-digit percent of the population sick at the same time, we'll be overwhelmed, the number of deaths will be catastrophic, and we'll have a recession anyway, plus millions of dead people, which isn't very good for the economy.
DrChicken
Member
That whole party is a fucking joke
First they want to give everyone everything for free, (commie sanders), but now that there’s a crisis they say no.
Do I think the bill will fix everything? No, but I know 3/10 Americans are now unemployed thanks to this shut down
justhere4comm
Banned
Invalid Link Removed
It appears there are too many flaws.
They should get it right before passing it.
It appears there are too many flaws.
They should get it right before passing it.
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HIT4ME
Well-known member
Yeah, because the only way the economy will be bad enough to beat him during election time is if this crashes it.
Probably. Almost guaranteed. But that didn't stop them from pushing other stimulus packages through that weren't good enough when Obama was asking for it.
HIT4ME
Well-known member
And to be fair - not very conservative to want to hand out free money.
A conservative would say, "Hey guys, it is a tough life out there. Leave your house and help spread this disease...or stay home and lose your job. And Banks? Foreclose if you like, but keep in mind you have armed home owners and right now our law enforcement is a bit tired up."
A conservative would say, "Hey guys, it is a tough life out there. Leave your house and help spread this disease...or stay home and lose your job. And Banks? Foreclose if you like, but keep in mind you have armed home owners and right now our law enforcement is a bit tired up."
justhere4comm
Banned
You just contradicted yourself.
It was flawed but it was because they can't beat him... which is it? I thought it was about getting what's right.
- Student Loan Forgiveness
- Better healthcare
- Not corporate bailouts so they rebuy their stock again. They will.
(The cruise and airline industry?) No thanks.
Fix the economy by elevating those with the most stress. The workers.
They can then afford more. Screw trickle down Economics.
It was flawed but it was because they can't beat him... which is it? I thought it was about getting what's right.
- Student Loan Forgiveness
- Better healthcare
- Not corporate bailouts so they rebuy their stock again. They will.
(The cruise and airline industry?) No thanks.
Fix the economy by elevating those with the most stress. The workers.
They can then afford more. Screw trickle down Economics.
muscleupcrohn
Legend
Let's not turn this into a discussion of left vs right political ideology. I get it's somewhat inevitable in discussing the government's plan for this pandemic, but we're sort of veering off-topic into overarching political ideology independent of this actual issue IMO.
justhere4comm
Banned
Kind of off topic but alleviating student debt would go a long way to help those in need of resources.
muscleupcrohn
Legend
It would, but there has to be some limit/logic to it (not suggesting you're suggesting we wipe 100% of all debt, of course). But I have heard I heard somewhere that the current government ideas are $1k (or a bit more) to each adult (and I heard $500 per kid for families IIRC?), and potentially $10k in student loan debt forgiven as part of the pandemic assistance? Staying slightly on topic haha!
And, to ignore my own suggestion to stay on topic, I'm open to the possibility of free community and state colleges, but I don't know if we need free university (state or private). I know it may seem like a silly distinction, but I know some people who racked up insane student loans because they decided to go to universities they didn't get scholarships for instead of other universities or colleges they did. And the issue was even more drastic for people who went to private and/or out-of-state schools they didn't get scholarships to.
HIT4ME
Well-known member
No contradiction at all. It is flawed, it is a liberal idea to "bail out" like this.
The contradiction is the liberals claiming they didn't pass it "because it is flawed." They have passed plenty of such plans when they wanted to and they were all "flawed".
But they obviously don't believe in the good of the country - just their political standing and what they can benefit from these bail outs. If this goes through, what are they going to do? Say, " Pffft. Trump. He is such an idiot. Giving money away for nothing. What a moron! Can you believe him?"
Oh come on. We all know politicians are coming for our gyms!
@justhere4comm and I are opposites on this stuff, it is good discussion, but I still love him. Even if he is wrong
Renew1
Legend
I'm not one for "forgiving" (it isn't forgiving, it is us paying for it) student debt.
1). Students decided to put themselves into debt for a "higher education". I did not.
2). If I decided to put myself into debt for a house, car, clothing .. Or whatever, and others did not, they won't be happy about "forgiving" my debt (paying for my personal items themselves). And they shouldn't be.
muscleupcrohn
Legend
Oh, I'm well aware that there's no such thing as "free X." It's "taxpayer-funded X." And I'm not saying I do support just a generic break on student loans, but I wouldn't be opposed to some form of help during a pandemic like this, if that makes any sense.
Renew1
Legend
I'm not opposed to helping people through a really bad time. But I don't see a possible way to justify it for them, but not for others. Again ... Many people are struggling with their own debt, not just student loans.
To single them out, but not others doesn't seem right at all.
Ricky10
Well-known member
Let’s say we could get additional medical treatment facilities built in record time, have appropriate PPE, and adequate supply of ventilators to support a mass influx of patients that go into respiratory failure. You would still need medical staff available to take care of these patients. This has, and will continue to be a challenge, especially when you consider that we are going to get sick too.
You can’t just throw someone on a ventilator and not have enough respiratory therapists to manage them. Aside from the pulmonologists (of which there a few), we are the only ones who know the complexities of managing patients on a ventilator- particularly in these cases where patients are requiring more complex strategies due to the significant impact this virus has on the lungs.
There simply is no option but to implement these containment strategies, which honestly have been at least two steps behind since all this started in China. It’s sad when military has to get involved, but some people just don’t understand/care so things have to escalate.
People also have to start accepting that this really isn’t a short term plan. Life as we know it is going to remain very different for at least 6 months to a year. As I said before, we will only see significant positive changes in returning to our prior lifestyles (including the gym) upon successful implementation of antivirals/vaccine, herd immunity, seasonal influence, and/or divine intervention.
You can’t just throw someone on a ventilator and not have enough respiratory therapists to manage them. Aside from the pulmonologists (of which there a few), we are the only ones who know the complexities of managing patients on a ventilator- particularly in these cases where patients are requiring more complex strategies due to the significant impact this virus has on the lungs.
There simply is no option but to implement these containment strategies, which honestly have been at least two steps behind since all this started in China. It’s sad when military has to get involved, but some people just don’t understand/care so things have to escalate.
People also have to start accepting that this really isn’t a short term plan. Life as we know it is going to remain very different for at least 6 months to a year. As I said before, we will only see significant positive changes in returning to our prior lifestyles (including the gym) upon successful implementation of antivirals/vaccine, herd immunity, seasonal influence, and/or divine intervention.
HIT4ME
Well-known member
I am not saying this argument is right, it is just an idea and I am not sure - but education doesn't benefit the person receiving the education - it benefits others.
I had an economics professor who once asked us to ponder what would happen if you took the most highly educated doctor in the world and dropped him into the middle of a village in Africa that had no education. Who would benefit from his education?
Sure, in a society with other educated individuals, such a person could make more money and do well - but the other people have to have something t give if he is going to benefit and that means they need to have skills/education as well.
Not saying it is the entire story, but it is an interesting thought experiment that can possibly justify some aid in educating others and equitably distributing the burden.
Even though you did not choose to get an education - you likely benefit from the people who DID get an education (doctors, lawyers, accountants, physicists, engineers, etc.)
Of course, yeah, you benefit and you pay for it already by paying them for their services.
muscleupcrohn
Legend
And I totally understand that. Now, I may well be wrong, but I've always heard that even bankruptcy can't erase student debt, although I've also read, in a cursory search, that it may not be that simple, or things are changing or have changed to make it not quite that simple. If student loans are harder to get assistance with than other loans, leading to the debts building and building for people more than other debts, then I can see an argument for helping people with them more than other loans. Now, I'm not even saying I inherently think we should help with student loans and not X,Y, or Z other loans; I'm just presenting one point of view for the sake of a discussion.
Renew1
Legend
Totally disagree here, Brother.
I'm in serious debt to these fine individuals who put themselves into debt, out of the goodness of their heart. When they start forgiving the debts others owe them for their services, I'd start CONSIDERING paying for their schooling.
Whether we admit it or not, we all know that if it weren't for a (hopeful) promise of personal gain, almost none of these students would have gone into debt.
HIT4ME
Well-known member
I agree with this too. Just saying it may not be as black and white as it appears.
And that is the problem with going against the free market even a little...where do you stop? Does it really make sense to find something that doesn't make sense itself? I.e. - if something makes economic sense, people will naturally do it. If you need gov't intervention it is because it does not make economic sense on it's own...so why ever have the intervention?
JoePaul39
Well-known member
What about the dad that saved all is hard earned dollars for his whole life to put his kids through college debt free? Or what about the kids that worked a full time job and went to college full time to not incur student loan debt? It wouldn’t be fair to pay off student loan debt for everyone and the people that worked hard so no student loan debt was incurred gets nothing but higher taxes to pay off the debt of others , would it? I have $15,000 of student loan debt (use to be $25,000) and it was my choice to incur it and I am not asking the government to just pay it off.
Also, President Trump has already offered and enacted a forbearance opportunity of student loan debt to those effected by losing their jobs so they don’t have to make payments in the interim and waived ALL student loan interest during this period so why on earth does $10,000 of student loan debt forgiveness have to be part of the bill?
Also, President Trump has already offered and enacted a forbearance opportunity of student loan debt to those effected by losing their jobs so they don’t have to make payments in the interim and waived ALL student loan interest during this period so why on earth does $10,000 of student loan debt forgiveness have to be part of the bill?
puccah8808
Legend
I agree. After I graduate in May, I’ll have about $104k in student loan debt. It’s mine and I intend to pay it. It’s not the government’s fault that I chose to go to school and take out loans.
maximillia
Member
Now I can be like you and call you out for presenting your opinion there as fact, just because you didn't say it's your opinion, but I won't do that. Rest easy.
EDIT: Trump just tweeted that they can't let the cure be worse than the problem itself. That's all I have been saying. The fact that it isn't clear which way things should go. Based on the data, they will decide I guess.
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maximillia
Member
A sterling attitude. Would be great if it was more common.
BamBam54
Well-known member
Also to the point of student debt - perhaps those with student debt who can't get a job to ever pay it off just picked a stupid Liberal Arts 18th Century Mosaic Art degree. Whatever happened to personal accountability?
If the taxpayer is going to pick up the tab as a part of this medical crisis, it would be a logical incentive to pay some money towards those students who might actually HELP with this particular problem - doctors, nurses, x-ray techs, etc.
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If the taxpayer is going to pick up the tab as a part of this medical crisis, it would be a logical incentive to pay some money towards those students who might actually HELP with this particular problem - doctors, nurses, x-ray techs, etc.
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muscleupcrohn
Legend
If prefaced my comment with “if we end up with a double-digit percent of the population infected.” That’s a minimum of 32,900,000 people infected. That’s almost 100x the total cases so far in the entire world. Is it an opinion that if it gets that bad in a single country that it will overwhelm said country? With even a 0.4% mortality rate (around what it is now IIRC), which it would undoubtedly be higher if literally millions of people have it in one country, that’s 131,600 dead. Italy’s mortality rate appears to be insane, at ~8% (reported to be due to an older population and the medical care system being overwhelmed by the numbers). Apply those numbers to the 32,900,000 number and you have 2.6 million dead. Yeah, I’m sure that’d have absolutely no economic consequences.
justhere4comm
Banned
Colleges use predatory lenders, and that ish will never get paid off.
@puccah8808 What do you suppose your monthly payment will be for those loans?
How long to pay them off?
I hope you get a good paying job, oh I hope so, but those loans.. they will need payment no matter what.
The overblown price of education (inflated) is just as bad as healthcare costs for the uninsured.
I agree, if you can't afford to go to school and pay as you go, don't. It's a mistake. Huge mistake.
@puccah8808 What do you suppose your monthly payment will be for those loans?
How long to pay them off?
I hope you get a good paying job, oh I hope so, but those loans.. they will need payment no matter what.
The overblown price of education (inflated) is just as bad as healthcare costs for the uninsured.
I agree, if you can't afford to go to school and pay as you go, don't. It's a mistake. Huge mistake.
justhere4comm
Banned
Invalid Link Removed
HIT4ME
Well-known member
This, combines with the fact that your education doesn't necessarily benefit you directly, is something more people need to consider.
I know the majority if people believe an education benefits them and will get them a better job, but college won't achieve this. The people with the most success very rarely have a college education. Bill Gates, Dell, Buffett were all among the most successful men in the country without a college degree.
And yeah, some people in that group have degrees - but fewer than you would think.
Society seems to think that knowledge is secret and hidden and you need someone to show you/teach you. But all knowledge has been gained without the aid if a teacher. Someone had to uncover it on their own before it could be taught.
With the tools at our disposal today, I agree that colleges are over priced and a poor cost/benefit. But I went to college and I am glad I did, even if it wasn't the greatest investment. And some people I know have done well from their education.
But, yeah, paying off some of these student loans is unbelievable. I am sure Puccah will do it though and I hope she turns out to be one of the people who benefits greatly from it!
puccah8808
Legend
Yes, something like that. It’s definitely something I have put in the back of my mind for the last 7 years.
My classmate decided to take the most out, and she’s paying over double for the same degree and with a higher interest rate. I suffered a bit more by paying for some classes out of pocket.
Whisky
Well-known member
Ok so I’m not going to tell my brothers on the USA side of the pond about themselves but I can tell you what the UK side is like and see if you spot the similarities
we are not a compliant nation, we are not adhering to the social distancing (I personally am, I’m not a selfish cunt) as a country, our numbers are going up faster than in Italy.
italy has outstripped China for deaths. Chinese people are incredibly compliant, if the state says jump they ask how high. They’ve handled the situation. Italy, the uk and Spain haven’t.
even China needed full lockdown. Italy have called in the army to enforce it. Let me state again, italy (piss small country in comparison to China) have had more deaths than China. The Chinese complied, italy did not.
comments about this being over in a few weeks are miles off, sorry (I wish this was wrong btw) but this is months, uk government have already said 3 months and social distancing possibly for 12 months or more.
economies and industries will change forever, 3 months is a long time to form new habits. If you didn’t shop online before you will buy the end of this, people will be more used to working out from home and set up to do so, working from home will increase massively after this goes away as companies invest in the tech to do it properly in the short term (and realise it’s feasible long term).
we’ll feel the effects of this for 10 years plus. It’s the biggest event we’ve ever seen. The global nature makes it bigger than either world war.
hunker down brothers, embrace the changes and come out stronger
we are not a compliant nation, we are not adhering to the social distancing (I personally am, I’m not a selfish cunt) as a country, our numbers are going up faster than in Italy.
italy has outstripped China for deaths. Chinese people are incredibly compliant, if the state says jump they ask how high. They’ve handled the situation. Italy, the uk and Spain haven’t.
even China needed full lockdown. Italy have called in the army to enforce it. Let me state again, italy (piss small country in comparison to China) have had more deaths than China. The Chinese complied, italy did not.
comments about this being over in a few weeks are miles off, sorry (I wish this was wrong btw) but this is months, uk government have already said 3 months and social distancing possibly for 12 months or more.
economies and industries will change forever, 3 months is a long time to form new habits. If you didn’t shop online before you will buy the end of this, people will be more used to working out from home and set up to do so, working from home will increase massively after this goes away as companies invest in the tech to do it properly in the short term (and realise it’s feasible long term).
we’ll feel the effects of this for 10 years plus. It’s the biggest event we’ve ever seen. The global nature makes it bigger than either world war.
hunker down brothers, embrace the changes and come out stronger
puccah8808
Legend
Thank you for the positivity, but I completely agree with you. I am working in my field but it took me getting my masters for someone to give me a chance (and a recruiter who pushed for them to interview me). Hopefully, it will all pay off.... for everyone who took a chance on their education.
justhere4comm
Banned
I would prefer you to be bailed out instead of let’s say. The airlines or cruise lines that bought back stock in their last coup.
It’s the time of the regular Citizen. The proletariat.
You should not have had to pay such a sum in loans. It’s criminal.
thebigt
Legend
here is what mayor pete said about free college....American's who have a college degree earn more than those who don't. as a progressive, I have a hard time getting my head around the idea a majority who earn less because they didn't go to college subsidize a minority who earn more because they did.
needless to say mayor pete caught a lot of criticism from the Bernie bros.
needless to say mayor pete caught a lot of criticism from the Bernie bros.
maximillia
Member
Invalid Link Removed
In a dramatic sign of the coronavirus' anticipated toll, the Invalid Link Removed Corps of Engineers is planning to convert vacant hotels, college dormitories and other facilities into intensive care wards with tens of thousands of makeshift hospital beds, first in New York but probably expanding to California and other states.
That announcement Friday at a Pentagon news conference by Lt. Gen Todd T. Semonite, commander of Army Corps of Engineers, marks an escalation of the U.S. military role. Already it is providing 2,000 ventilators and 5 million protective masks and preparing to dispatch hospital ships on both coasts. Governors are calling up thousands of National Guard troops.
This is the kind of stuff I was basically talking about. Makeshift arrangements. But no, I am not an expert and only experts can possibly speculate about what the officials are going to do. Carry on Brother. Also, nobody said covid deaths won't have an economic impact. That's something you decided on by yourself, again. Personally, I wouldn't pit covid deaths against the possible impact of an economic breakdown. You can fantasize about that if you want. Either way, like I said, the quarantine will end at some point. Segregating the old and the young sounds like a good idea to me still, but I am not an expert, so you should probably ring up a doctor.
manifesto
Well-known member
Great post! Thanks brother.
justhere4comm
Banned
I'm really sick of Florida and it's horrific lack of leadership.
They are going to pass NY State and it's almost as if they don't care.
They are going to pass NY State and it's almost as if they don't care.
puccah8808
Legend
I can tell you that I earned more without a college degree.
Smont
Legend
I'd say 9/10 college graduates that I know personally have regular jobs like waitress and store managers at the mall or a CVS, other then the few that became lawyers and Dr.s. I'm making more as a union construction worker. There's Soo many college grads that make crap for money.
justhere4comm
Banned
Something about a mutation, my wife was talking about. Yeah, scary stuff.