7 Days fasting. Zero calories for 168 hours. HGP's short log

[ValiantThor08]

I never said all. I said most/all, and this is supported by research.

So do you think doing a 3 day fast would help spark hypertrophy after being at a plateau?

 

[Spurfy]

So do you think doing a 3 day fast would help spark hypertrophy after being at a plateau?

If done correctly, I know for a fact that it will. I’ve seen it dozens of times in dozens of athletes.

I don’t have a degree in exercise science, my degrees are in neuroscience and pharmacology/toxicology, so I approach training from a completely different point of view than traditional coaches who focus too much attention on outdated methods.

Fasting works very well to trigger muscle growth if it’s done properly.

 

[jtmass]

Same, my performance in the gym is non-existent without carbs, don't see how people gain weight on keto.

Be on any diet with caloric surplus, you will gain weight. It’s just how the body responds. People nowadays just complicate things too much and the rest of the novice crowd gets confused.

 

[hairygrandpa]

BBQ is over...ate a lot greasy stuff and had some vodka. Feeling AWESOME! I'm still in ketosis, I bet. Despite having lost glycogen, I attended my friends without a shirt, because 95F at night. ALL were stunned, saying I look much better. Was not my intention to show off. Now I have to make diet plans for 3 peoples. They actually believe I have some knowledge to help them loose weight. Between us: They are the problem, lying to themselves and not having discipline at all.

 

[hairygrandpa]

Have a nice weekend folks, my Sunday will be staying away from the PC, swimming in the pool and making plans to dominate the world.

 

[hairygrandpa]

Okay folks...

I did it. I finally did it.

I was part of AM for about 2.5 years and shared every failure and success I had. I was always honest and I thought to be in the right place.

Even though one could be anonymous and pretend to be a different person, I did not.
This forum is full of product pushers and liars...not talking about you, MrKleen73 or you Spurfy or all the others who honestly engaged in conversations with me to better the physique.

What is it about, you ask?
https://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-logs/308260-dcs-new-year-43.html#post6184931

I'll keep staying awhile around -but I'm prepared to move on.

 

[Whisky]

Congrats on the 6 days brother. I’ve just spent an hour catching up and doing some learning from you and Spurfy - very interesting stuff.

You know i was starting to look at fasting as you started this and it’s definitely something I’m going to be implementing. I’ll be doing a 14 hour fast daily, a 24 hour fast monthly and a 7 day fast a couple of times a year, just seen too many benefits, especially around optimising health not to now (body comp is cool but the quality/longevity of life benefits appear very strong).

I hope you stick around. The straight shooting approach (when done to ultimately help) is a good thing imo. Besides your input on my logs etc has been massively appreciated.

You know I’ve become a bit of a Ben greenfield fan boy lately but you should check out some of his podcasts on keto (pretty recent), he had Thomas Luer on there a few weeks back talking about keto mistakes etc.....might be some useful info anyway.

 

[hairygrandpa]

Congrats on the 6 days brother. I’ve just spent an hour catching up and doing some learning from you and Spurfy - very interesting stuff.

You know i was starting to look at fasting as you started this and it’s definitely something I’m going to be implementing. I’ll be doing a 14 hour fast daily, a 24 hour fast monthly and a 7 day fast a couple of times a year, just seen too many benefits, especially around optimising health not to now (body comp is cool but the quality/longevity of life benefits appear very strong).

I hope you stick around. The straight shooting approach (when done to ultimately help) is a good thing imo. Besides your input on my logs etc has been massively appreciated.

You know I’ve become a bit of a Ben greenfield fan boy lately but you should check out some of his podcasts on keto (pretty recent), he had Thomas Luer on there a few weeks back talking about keto mistakes etc.....might be some useful info anyway.

Thank you. You are one of those guys here, who are honest and not ashamed in outing yourself. I have deeply respect and feel a sort of binding between us. Thank you for sharing sources on ketogenic diet!
What is happening now may force me to move.
I wish you all the best in case we don't see us anymore, you came a VERY long way brother!

 

[hairygrandpa]

Whiskey , the fasting experience was unique to me. I recommend it o EVERYONE! No idea if it makes you live longer -or makes your ballsack less wrinkly -but, its a true challenge. It will show you what you are made off -and has benefits.

 

[Whisky]

Whiskey , the fasting experience was unique to me. I recommend it o EVERYONE! No idea if it makes you live longer -or makes your ballsack less wrinkly -but, its a true challenge. It will show you what you are made off -and has benefits.

Haha, well if I ever manage to persuade the missus to indulge in teabagging I’ll make sure to get feedback on the benefits of my smooth sack lol

 

[00A]

If done correctly, I know for a fact that it will. I’ve seen it dozens of times in dozens of athletes.

I don’t have a degree in exercise science, my degrees are in neuroscience and pharmacology/toxicology, so I approach training from a completely different point of view than traditional coaches who focus too much attention on outdated methods.

Fasting works very well to trigger muscle growth if it’s done properly.

Do you have a ebook or guide maybe you written about it to help others?

 

[malin]

Greetings , that some good $hit . Respect mr Grandpa , you got a big hairy balls . I got a question , you did not lift or do any cardio work but what was your activity level , any manual , physical labor etc .?
I’m debating myself if I could pull something like that off , but I’m a carpenter so it’s pretty much impossible for me to avoid physical activities for a week or so .

 

[Chados]

Holy ****ing ****, shots fired.

 

[DemntedCowboy]

Holy ****ing ****, shots fired.

I think the Vodka, BBQ, or Molly has gotten to him.

 

[ValiantThor08]

If done correctly, I know for a fact that it will. I’ve seen it dozens of times in dozens of athletes.

I don’t have a degree in exercise science, my degrees are in neuroscience and pharmacology/toxicology, so I approach training from a completely different point of view than traditional coaches who focus too much attention on outdated methods.

Fasting works very well to trigger muscle growth if it’s done properly.

Explain difference between doing correctly and incorrectly?

 

[ValiantThor08]

Thank you. You are one of those guys here, who are honest and not ashamed in outing yourself. I have deeply respect and feel a sort of binding between us. Thank you for sharing sources on ketogenic diet!
What is happening now may force me to move.
I wish you all the best in case we don't see us anymore, you came a VERY long way brother!

Stick around. The world needs more "straight shooters".

 

[Humble]

Okay folks...

I'll keep staying awhile around -but I'm prepared to move on.

Holy crap! If you leave HGP, who’s going to be my trainer?

 

[hairygrandpa]

Greetings , that some good $hit . Respect mr Grandpa , you got a big hairy balls . I got a question , you did not lift or do any cardio work but what was your activity level , any manual , physical labor etc .?
I’m debating myself if I could pull something like that off , but I’m a carpenter so it’s pretty much impossible for me to avoid physical activities for a week or so .

No workout.
Lifting would "damage" muscles. The body would take aminos (protein) from other muscles to repair the trained one, not a sound approach, Also, the extra calories burnt by exercise are negligible in comparison to the caloric deficit.

 

[BEAST73]

No workout.
Lifting would "damage" muscles. The body would take aminos (protein) from other muscles to repair the trained one, not a sound approach, Also, the extra calories burnt by exercise are negligible in comparison to the caloric deficit.

Let’s Go!

 

[hairygrandpa]

Stick around. The world needs more "straight shooters".

Thank you, thinking about it.

Holy crap! If you leave HGP, who’s going to be my trainer?

I'm blushing!
I would never dare to train anyone here. I do it for my son and my daughter -and a obese friend (who lost about 60 pounds total now) for free -but would never claim I'm qualified.

 

[hairygrandpa]

Let’s Go!

Beast, I need some time to reflect before being "the old one". Personally, I have no hatred towards anyone -but my respect for some people got diminished.

 

[BEAST73]

Beast, I need some time to reflect before being "the old one". Personally, I have no hatred towards anyone -but my respect for some people got diminished.

I know. Just take one day at a time.

 

[00A]

No workout.
Lifting would "damage" muscles. The body would take aminos (protein) from other muscles to repair the trained one, not a sound approach, Also, the extra calories burnt by exercise are negligible in comparison to the caloric deficit.

Was thinking to do a 2 day fast to start off with first time with gym included - coffee - protein - eaas shakes - yohimbe etc so this not a good idea?

 

[00A]

Another thing I started reading “the fast 5:2 diet” by dr micheal mosley (amazon it) which explains simple terms fasting.. now if you read lyle mcdonald - the stubborn fat solution he goes about it differently - so cant decide which approach!

 

[hairygrandpa]

Was thinking to do a 2 day fast to start off with first time with gym included - coffee - protein - eaas shakes - yohimbe etc so this not a good idea?

If you stay afterwards in ketosis (ketogenic diet), its an awesome idea to cut! If not, its just a torture, lol.

 

[hairygrandpa]

Another thing I started reading “the fast 5:2 diet” by dr micheal mosley (amazon it) which explains simple terms fasting.. now if you read lyle mcdonald - the stubborn fat solution he goes about it differently - so cant decide which approach!

Anything you chose! I tried for 2.5 years all kind of stuff. I'm still a bit fat.

 

[Jstrong20]

Good work! I plan on doing a 3 day and then a 7 at some point. I've done Psfm and if and like both.

 

[tyga tyga]

BBQ ribs are ok if the outside isn’t “caramelized or seared” but I don’t get the affinity people have towards them lol truthfully I’m not big into bbq either way.

I did a variation of “keto”, which was Carb night solution (think we talked about this in the past) where you diet for 10 days of 30hg of cho or less then refeed the 11th day. After, you started keto for 6 days and reefed every seventh. Worked wonders.

 

[Fasted]

Same, my performance in the gym is non-existent without carbs, don't see how people gain weight on keto.

After cutting from 240ish down to <200 i didnt experience gains for almost 2 years till i went on keto stopped taking whey protien in the morning. Didnt even expect it. But that is after having never used gear, so keto pretty much WAS my gear.

 

[BOSSMAN]

hairygrandpa excellent work , good job in the fast. And still looking string my man. Go feast

 

[Spurfy]

Okay folks...

I did it. I finally did it.

I was part of AM for about 2.5 years and shared every failure and success I had. I was always honest and I thought to be in the right place.

Even though one could be anonymous and pretend to be a different person, I did not.
This forum is full of product pushers and liars...not talking about you, MrKleen73 or you Spurfy or all the others who honestly engaged in conversations with me to better the physique.

What is it about, you ask?
https://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-logs/308260-dcs-new-year-43.html#post6184931

I'll keep staying awhile around -but I'm prepared to move on.

You will be missed, brother.

PM me your email address and I'll send you a link to a brand new blog I'm putting up when it's ready, which I think you'll find interesting and informative. I'll not be providing a link to everyone, just those on here who I feel share a similar ability to think critically and remain open-minded to unconventional options, and who aren't knee-jerk "No your [sic] wrong! If this was true everyone would already be doing it!" types.

I will likely make the blog invite-only and password-protected.

 

[Spurfy]

Do you have a ebook or guide maybe you written about it to help others?

I'm presently writing a book which should be finished late this year or early next year which will cover *everything* I know on sports science and touching a bit on general health and longevity. I'll be writing under a pseudonym, given the chapters on PEDs and the non-traditional use of various drugs to achieve very specific results, but when it's released I'll provide the Amazon link on here.

 

[Spurfy]

Greetings , that some good $hit . Respect mr Grandpa , you got a big hairy balls . I got a question , you did not lift or do any cardio work but what was your activity level , any manual , physical labor etc .?
I’m debating myself if I could pull something like that off , but I’m a carpenter so it’s pretty much impossible for me to avoid physical activities for a week or so .

You'll be fine fasting -- I don't think anything you do would push your muscles to lactate threshold. I did a three day bathroom/shower tear-out and re-tile while fasting, and while it wasn't exactly pleasant (my helper was eating almost constantly), I wasn't hindered in any way.

 

[Spurfy]

Explain difference between doing correctly and incorrectly?

You'll have to wait for the book. I can't give away all of my secrets for free...

I touched on it a bit in some replies in this thread. If you go back through and read my replies you'll find some valuable information on using fasting to facilitate new muscle growth.

 

[Spurfy]

No workout.
Lifting would "damage" muscles. The body would take aminos (protein) from other muscles to repair the trained one, not a sound approach, Also, the extra calories burnt by exercise are negligible in comparison to the caloric deficit.

And... the student has become the teacher. Nicely done -- I couldn't have explained this better.

 

[Spurfy]

Another thing I started reading “the fast 5:2 diet” by dr micheal mosley (amazon it) which explains simple terms fasting.. now if you read lyle mcdonald - the stubborn fat solution he goes about it differently - so cant decide which approach!

Lyle doesn't know nearly as much as he thinks he does. He is adamantly against prolonged fasting because "You'll lose all your muscle and wreck your metabolism."

 

[ValiantThor08]

You'll have to wait for the book. I can't give away all of my secrets for free...

I touched on it a bit in some replies in this thread. If you go back through and read my replies you'll find some valuable information on using fasting to facilitate new muscle growth.

Recommend leucine supplementation during the fast? Got to pull some teeth for some info.

 

[tyga tyga]

Lyle doesn't know nearly as much as he thinks he does. He is adamantly against prolonged fasting because "You'll lose all your muscle and wreck your metabolism."

Lyle and Israetel had a GREAT debate this week more-so about hypertrophy and muscle than dieting but great none the less. And yes, Lyle is intelligent but not as much as Lyle thinks Lyle is lol

 

[manifesto]

I always remember hearing that if you fast your body will think its starving and will hold onto fat...this does not appear to be true at all. Where did this come from?

 

[Spurfy]

I always remember hearing that if you fast your body will think its starving and will hold onto fat...this does not appear to be true at all. Where did this come from?

It's partially true. PROLONGED DIETING can cause this maladaptation, this is now known as "The Biggest Loser Phenomena"

The human body was designed to do two (and only two) things with regard to optimal anabolism and catabolism and food intake:

1. Feast -- add muscle and bodyfat.
2. Famine -- fasting, which preserves muscle and sheds bodyfat

Prolonged calorie restriction (dieting) is a signal to your body that a famine is coming, and so metabolism slows (TSH levels fall and peripheral conversion of T4 -> T3 is shifted to T4 -> rT3, which is a thyroid receptor antagonist) and without the benefit of fasting's GH surge fat loss stagnates, cortisol does not elevate and actually declines (which slows fat loss and causes fatigue and a general inability to cope with stress), and permanent reductions of BMR can occur, which obviously is conducive to fat storage and difficulty gaining muscle.

 

[Spurfy]

Recommend leucine supplementation during the fast? Got to pull some teeth for some info.

No. All BCAAs stimulate insulin release, which is the absolute last thing you want to do while fasting.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, BCAA supplementation has been shown to be basically worthless in several studies.

 

[ValiantThor08]

No. All BCAAs stimulate insulin release, which is the absolute last thing you want to do while fasting.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, BCAA supplementation has been shown to be basically worthless in several studies.

New research is showing taking 3g of leucine at any time, by itself stimulates protein synthesis.

 

[manifesto]

It's partially true. PROLONGED DIETING can cause this maladaptation, this is now known as "The Biggest Loser Phenomena"

The human body was designed to do two (and only two) things with regard to optimal anabolism and catabolism and food intake:

1. Feast -- add muscle and bodyfat.
2. Famine -- fasting, which preserves muscle and sheds bodyfat

Prolonged calorie restriction (dieting) is a signal to your body that a famine is coming, and so metabolism slows (TSH levels fall and peripheral conversion of T4 -> T3 is shifted to T4 -> rT3, which is a thyroid receptor antagonist) and without the benefit of fasting's GH surge fat loss stagnates, cortisol does not elevate and actually declines (which slows fat loss and causes fatigue and a general inability to cope with stress), and permanent reductions of BMR can occur, which obviously is conducive to fat storage and difficulty gaining muscle.

Excellent. Thank you.

 

[danielvp]

No. All BCAAs stimulate insulin release, which is the absolute last thing you want to do while fasting.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, BCAA supplementation has been shown to be basically worthless in several studies.

I have been researching this subject a lot lately, and my understanding is that leucine initiates MPS via mtor, but does not sustain MPS unless all other essential amino acids are present. Initiation does not mean much without it being sustained.

This is why EAAs are superior to BCAAs.

 

[ValiantThor08]

I have been researching this subject a lot lately, and my understanding is that leucine initiates MPS via mtor, but does not sustain MPS unless all other essential amino acids are present. Initiation does not mean much without it being sustained.

This is why EAAs are superior to BCAAs.

Watched a seminar on how leucine alone can sustain protein synthesis.

 

[ValiantThor08]

https://youtu.be/e4rrMsYOjfs

 

[Whisky]

No. All BCAAs stimulate insulin release, which is the absolute last thing you want to do while fasting.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, BCAA supplementation has been shown to be basically worthless in several studies.

Hey Spurfy - I’ve been looking into fasting and came across a view that it’s leucine which is resonsible for the blood glucose spike, if eaa’s are taken the others buffer that response (to make it negligible) and for the majority of benefits of fasting it wouldn’t have a negative impact (but would provide some muscle sparing and energy boost).

Same source also said that for maximum cell autophagy it should still be avoided....what’s your view?

 

[ValiantThor08]

Start there, the seminar is in many parts ^^^

 

[danielvp]

Start there, the seminar is in many parts ^^^

Thanks I'll check it out.

 

[manifesto]

So a long term caloric restriction is beneficial, as long as fasting or intermittent fasting is incorporated?