FDA stepping in again
- Thread starter kisaj
- Start date
Jiigzz
Legend
I'm not sure I see this as a bad thing.
What they are saying is they want to target products which make health claims and contain undisclosed ingredients.
The supplement market is huge and it's growth has also allowed naturopath companies who sell supplements under the guise of treating an illness to make outlandish claims. The issue here is that a lot of people are rejecting true medical intervention for these supplements which may have implications for both them and others they are in contact with.
Take the anti vaccine movement for instance; the growth of naturopathic supplements is aiding anti vaxxers by offering natural alternatives that claim to fight off disease/ illness when in reality they don't. The consequence is one of a huge public health threat to all unvaccinated children as a consequence of a misguided belief their parents hold.
The FDA has an obligation to protect the average consumer from companies and people who intentionally deceive to turn a profit.
Unfortunately stricter intervention are required because, quite frankly, the average consumer is about as educated as a brick in the world of medicine and supplements and are too easily swayed by the idea of 'natural'.
What they are saying is they want to target products which make health claims and contain undisclosed ingredients.
The supplement market is huge and it's growth has also allowed naturopath companies who sell supplements under the guise of treating an illness to make outlandish claims. The issue here is that a lot of people are rejecting true medical intervention for these supplements which may have implications for both them and others they are in contact with.
Take the anti vaccine movement for instance; the growth of naturopathic supplements is aiding anti vaxxers by offering natural alternatives that claim to fight off disease/ illness when in reality they don't. The consequence is one of a huge public health threat to all unvaccinated children as a consequence of a misguided belief their parents hold.
The FDA has an obligation to protect the average consumer from companies and people who intentionally deceive to turn a profit.
Unfortunately stricter intervention are required because, quite frankly, the average consumer is about as educated as a brick in the world of medicine and supplements and are too easily swayed by the idea of 'natural'.
MrKleen73
Legend
I am pretty sure most anti vaxxers would be doing that whether they thought there were supplements to help or not. They are not taking vaccines out of fear, bad information, and or ignorance. It is not a "Hey this supplement can help the immune system, so now there is no need to get vaccines for the kids... " It is more like "There is no way I am giving my kids vaccines, maybe I should look for a supplement for the immune system instead."
I remember in one of the earlier bans the FDA passed years ago that supplements could not make medical claims, we don't need a new bill, just enforce what is on the books...
kisaj
Legend
Which is pretty much my point. It's nothing really new, it's just them flexing again. I personally can't stand Gottlieb and not a fan of the FDA in general. They have a purpose, but I don't trust the agenda.
ValiantThor08
Board Sponsor
I do not vaccinate my family because I know the dangers of IM injections of even minute doses of aluminum, and mercury. Many vaccines also were created through aborted fetal tissue, and I am pro life through and through. I believe God gave man an immune system, that does not need aid from an IM injection of chemicals, heavy metals, and a virus.
muscleupcrohn
Legend
If you’re using the God-gave-man argument, I really hope you don’t wear glasses, take any medications, and especially don’t take any anabolics that would disrupt your God-given hormone balance.
ValiantThor08
Board Sponsor
I account for "the fall of man". Men degrade. Men can get sick, even healthy men. I just find the immune system to be effective compared to injecting the adjuvant aluminum IM, which is a heavy metal, and since it is combined with polysorbate 80, it is able to cross the blood brain barrier. I am okay taking chances getting the flu, measles, chicken pox, HRV, etc... I believe in the autonomy of man, man has the right for his own body, and his family what gets put inside them.
muscleupcrohn
Legend
If the God-given immune system is sufficient, why is the God-given eye sight or God given hormone balance not also sufficient? Just say you think the risk/reward balance isn’t there for you; don’t give logically inconsistent theological arguments.
ValiantThor08
Board Sponsor
Generally speaking, the immune system is sufficient. Generally most do not have eye issues, at least younger people. Generally, younger people do not have hormone issues. Generally, even though men are defective, most won't need glasses, extra hormones, if they took care of themselves, at least not until they get older. But I get it, it would be more appropriate to give a risk/reward explanation, over a theological response.
kisaj
Legend
If this isn't a joke I prefer you choose another thread to discuss your misguided thoughts. I want nothing to do with you in this thread.
kisaj
Legend
Seriously GTFO with your lunacy. And don't send your kids to any of our kid's schools.
ValiantThor08
Board Sponsor
You see, look at your statements. Illogical, the way you react. You have not done your studying on the risk/reward. You haven't any idea of the vaccine injury compensation program that pays out millions of dollars every year. You have not a clue in how MILD most of the viruses on the vaccine schedule are. This is a business, to make money. You know our parents recieved literally a FEW vaccines, compared to the multiple times that millennials and younger recieved. If you want to vaccinate, and lay at the feet of CDC, go ahead, but don't castigate, and belittle people with differing points of view.
justhere4comm
Banned
Measles outbreak ...
ValiantThor08
Board Sponsor
Actually, that is media fear tactics to boost sales of the MMR vaccine. The sales were getting lower. The amount of people getting measles every year generally stays around the same number, a low number by the way. This is common, there is just a twist on the info to scare people into "re upping" the mmr shot to boost sales. Research it. And besides, again, a mild virus. Before the Measles vaccines existed, people treated it like chicken pox, and gathered around those infected so that their household would get over it.
ValiantThor08
Board Sponsor
Do research on the combination of aluminum and polysorbate 80, what it does to the brain. You can recover from a mild virus, but most people do not recover from brain damage
jim2509
Well-known member
Riiiigght!
ValiantThor08
Board Sponsor
And by the way, I love science. Good science never says, "the science is settled", good science is all about thesis, experiment, and observe. I do not agree with the notion that it is SETTLED that vaccines are generally safe, I believe specific safety studies need to be done, I believe they need to find a replacement for aluminum as the adjuvant (this is what excites an immune response), and I believe they need to find a suitable replacement for the human and animal DNA used to culture the viruses.
muscleupcrohn
Legend
I’m wearing glasses right now.
Also, we’re on Anabolic Minds, a supplement and anabolic forum. We all use some substances intended to improve some aspect(s) of our God-given abilities. Adaptogens, nootropics, ergogens, they all are designed to augment our natural abilities and qualities. But maybe God gave us these things and the ability to create these things to be used? And gave us wisdom and intelligence to learn, sometimes through trial and error, which ones we should keep using and which ones we shouldn’t. At least you can be consistent with a logical argument, because the theological one not only comes from a place where I can’t objectively debate you, but one where it’s not fully consistent with a myriad of other things you probably do/use daily.
ValiantThor08
Board Sponsor
You were right, I went about the discussion/debate, or how I feel the wrong way initially.
tyga tyga
Legend
Yes? Invalid Link Removed this is what was recorded just for this year (so far)
Or let me guess... it’s sensationalism at its finest?
ValiantThor08
Board Sponsor
About 10 people per state, out of 10 states... Out of almost 400 million.
Jiigzz
Legend
Good points.
I do think people leverage that fear to turn a profit however. I personally believe supplement companies should be held accountable for claiming they can cure a disease when they can't, but i can see where you're coming from.
Jiigzz
Legend
You are part of the problem at the moment. You don't see it because you are so caught up in it, but if you choose to not vaccinate your children, you are willfully and intentionally using them as a pawn in your game of politics, and that borders on child abuse in my eyes.
You may disagree, but your beliefs on vaccinations are on par with your level of understanding of them - which is very low.
Anti vaxxers often lean on the mercury argument in vaccines as harmful, despite it being ethylmercury and not methylmercury - the distinction is incredibly important, and connecting the two is a fallacy anti vaxxers lean on (Invalid Link Removed). These basic misunderstandings are why noone in the anti vaxing community should be out giving health advice.
In any case, it is funny you say the immune system is sufficient- tell that to the people who, just over 150+ years ago were only living to about 30 years of age and were often accustomed to having 5+ children because so many were dying at birth.
But hey, because that stuff doesnt happen now, because of vaccines, we no longer need it right? :facepalm:
tyga tyga
Legend
You meant to say roughly three people every day since the beginning of the year has contracted measles (again, so far)
Bye bye herd immunity.
muscleupcrohn
Legend
This is a good point. Someone in 2019 America can not vaccinate their kid and it’s statistically likely that their kid won’t get something terrible, but the more people that adopt this mindset, the more likely the unvaccinated child is to catch something. If half the people thought this way, the logic and statistics wouldn’t hold up anymore; you’re currently relying on the fact that the vast majority of people are vaccinated. If this were not true, you couldn’t ride the statistical odds on the backs of other people.
ValiantThor08
Board Sponsor
Do you not realize that if somebody contracts measles naturally, rather than through the vaccine, that their immunity is more permanent, then a vaccine. That would create a better herd immunity.
ValiantThor08
Board Sponsor
Plenty of people Beyond a hundred years ago that lived over 70 years old.
ValiantThor08
Board Sponsor
Also, I lean more on the aluminum adjuvant issue, more so than the Mercury issue because more vaccines have aluminum as their adjuvant then they do have mercury. Many vaccines also have a DNA from aborted fetal cells, and those of us who are pro-life disagree with the method of obtaining those cells.
Jiigzz
Legend
People have ridden the herd immunity for so long, they've never experienced life before vaccines and suddenly see no importance in them.
I mean, look at how good our immunity is when the black plague ripped through and killed hundreds of millions of people.
Or that time during the first world war when the spanish flu killed hundreds of millions of people.
Yep, we sure don't have a flawed immune system :rollseyes:
Anyway, lets keep this on topic haha
muscleupcrohn
Legend
Tell that to the myriad of severely ill or dead children your plan would necessitate to get to that point...
muscleupcrohn
Legend
Yes, but the odds of making it past a younger age were less.
ValiantThor08
Board Sponsor
Pretty sure more people have been harmed through the MMR vaccine than actually Contracting measles.
Jiigzz
Legend
I hope you dont drink tap water or eat food. Both contain aluminum.
muscleupcrohn
Legend
That’s not at all what I’m saying. I’m saying that you claimed letting measles run its course so people develop natural immunities to it would be preferable to vaccinating against it. The only reason less people are harmed from it is because they’re vaccinated against it. To build up the herd immunity you mentioned would inherently necessitate many, many people contracting it and either building a resistance to it or dying and being weeded out of the gene pool.
ValiantThor08
Board Sponsor
I have a reverse osmosis unit. And aluminum through food bases through the digestive system, rather than IM injection. But I'm done. I am for your right to vaccinate.
Jiigzz
Legend
Look up the average life span of people in the 1800s. 30-50 was the average. It is now 80 in most places.
Why do you think that is?
Jiigzz
Legend
Some still enters the blood stream.
Thank you, but i do hope you withdraw your children from public school as it is not fair on immocompromised children or other children who are not able to vaccinate for health reasons who rely on herd immunity to be willfully exposed to children whose parents intentionally do not vaccinate them.
muscleupcrohn
Legend
I also think that median lifespan should be looked at, see how it differed as well?
ValiantThor08
Board Sponsor
I understood what you were saying. Generally, measles is mild, like the chicken pox, which most of us contracted, and most survived.
ValiantThor08
Board Sponsor
Plumbing, the knowlege to wash hands with running water rather than sitting water. Proper waste disposal. Better travel, and housing.
ValiantThor08
Board Sponsor
I am all for opposing views. I enjoy debates, discussions.
muscleupcrohn
Legend
You do know that one of the biggest improvements in water quality has been chlorination, right? A blanket fear of chemicals would, and does, make people afraid when they hear there’s chlorine in your drinking water, but it keeps much, much worse things out of it. So simply saying that you want to avoid chemicals isn’t inherently even a good idea.
justhere4comm
Banned
Polio.
rascal14
Well-known member
Am I an ******* because I feel reading this thread that now some of your other viewpoints suddenly make sense knowing you are an anti-vaxer?��*
��
��*I try to not let politics affect my relationships with people, but the second I find out someone is against vaccinations I can't even stand to be near them anymore. If someone is going to just blatantly ignore facts, I want nothing to do with them. Lol
It is a shame these people are already vaccinated, though, and it is their innocent children who suffer.
muscleupcrohn
Legend
Mandatory un-vaccination for people who don’t vaccinate their kids? Jk