VECTOR , Doggcrapp, Progressive Calories

[MrKleen73]

I was going to say pretty much the same thing here. Either way, if you make dietery changes it will be the changes are going to be what shine from here forward not the supplement in everyone's eyes. I have no doubt if he takes the reigns and coaches your diet that you will get good results. However you would see a great benefit from lowering or not Increasing calories while bumping lrotie a lot for the TE F and managing insulin regardless of supplementation. He gave you a diet that will do the trick on it's own. So once you are doing it and have never eaten that way before how will you have any idea if any of the progress came from the diet or the supplement.

As far as the difference in the diet, I would compare it like this. We already know you can build a wood fence with a hammer and nails and it works every time. However now we also know about nail guns which do just as good a job far more conveniently. Why choose the hammer just because it is the old school way tried and true way? Doing that with that diet knowing it is harder, more restrictive and more uncomfortable but produces no better results just doesn't make sense to me. If you are making changes anyway and still eating a high volume of food I really recommend you eat things that are easily digested and nutrient dense for your gut health.

 

[jswain34]

Avocados have a good bit of potassium too, OP. Far more than a banana or serving of green veg.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Avocados have a good bit of potassium too, OP. Far more than a banana or serving of green veg.

But didn’t Brundel say no fruits? Avocado is a fruit. I agree that avocados are great, but if OP is deadset on following that advice, it’s a no-go, which just shows how arbitrary and asinine said advice is.

 

[jswain34]

But didn’t Brundel say no fruits? Avocado is a fruit. I agree that avocados are great, but if OP is deadset on following that advice, it’s a no-go, which just shows how arbitrary and asinine said advice is.

Ah, true lol. Theyre low in sugar though so maybe there is room for an exception since it meets one of the other conditions...?

 

[pfresh]

Ah, true lol. Theyre low in sugar though so maybe there is room for an exception since it meets one of the other conditions...?

I think he was generalizing fruit due to the sugar content . IlInvalid Link Removed

That is a picture of the nutrition info from a bag of frozen pineapple that was in my freezer. See the sugar content. I’m fairly certain that is what he meant when he referred to fruit. He said that he is going to help me dial the diet in so let’s wait and see.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

I think he was generalizing fruit due to the sugar content . IlInvalid Link Removed

That is a picture of the nutrition info from a bag of frozen pineapple that was in my freezer. See the sugar content. I’m fairly certain that is what he meant when he referred to fruit. He said that he is going to help me dial the diet in so let’s wait and see.

You’re eating 4k+ calories; a little naturally occurring sugar from fruits is NOT what’s breaking your diet... it’s too high or a caloric surplus; the laws of thermodynamics will not be overruled...

 

[pfresh]

Picked up some pro biotics Invalid Link Removed

 

[pfresh]

I hope avocados are allowed because I just bought a ton of them Invalid Link Removed

 

[muscleupcrohn]

I hope avocados are allowed because I just bought a ton of them Invalid Link Removed

It’s YOUR diet at the end of the day. You’re allowed some basic level of critical thinking. Avocados have that fat you need, and very little sugar; there’s no reason not to have them. So now you should have to drastically alter your diet, remove all the foods you relied on, AND waste money on stuff you bought to adapt to his on-the fly overhaul of your diet? This getting insane.

 

[The Solution]

It’s YOUR diet at the end of the day. You’re allowed some basic level of critical thinking. Avocados have that fat you need, and very little sugar; there’s no reason not to have them. So now you should have to drastically alter your diet, remove all the foods you relied on, AND waste money on stuff you bought to adapt to his on-the fly overhaul of your diet? This getting insane.

Let’s stop eating dairy
So I can go spend extra money on probiotics and enzymes which are found in dairy


Mind = blown

 

[pfresh]

You do you, but surely you can see how you making drastic changes to your diet would then be showing the effects of the diet, not the supplement. Also, clearly what he thought was best didn’t work, or he wouldn’t have had to make such drastic last-minute changes to it. This logic is just so baffling. If you want to see what Vector does, you establish a baseline, and then add Vector to see the effects it has. So the changes you can attribute to Vector. But if you suddenly overhaul your diet, how do we know what was responsible for the results; Vector or the change in diet? You think Vector May take so time to kick in; so it should kick in soon. Leave your diet how it was, and see if the kicked-in Vector will help you gain more muscle and/or less fat. That is the best test IMO. And the simplest for you too.

But I give you props for trying to humor Brundel as much as possible, even when it makes no sense.

If anyone wants to see what will happen if you just run vector in a CONTROLLED environment where nothing changes but adding the supplement they can check out The Solution log or ask him about it. This log has a ton of variables in it, with the only real constant being a massive calorie surplus. A massive calorie surplus for a natural will create a lot of body fat regardless of macros and food choices. Unless they are taking something that will use that surplus in a way AAS would. We are trying to see what happens when Vector is given a massive calorie surplus. So far it hasn’t worked the way we would hope. I don’t think making food changes is going to drastically effect body composition. A large caloric surplus is still just that and will lead to more body fat as the log progresses unless the vector kicks in.

 

[BEAST73]

pfresh, Have you thought about changing your exercise scheme and not the eating?

 

[pfresh]

pfresh, Have you thought about changing your exercise scheme and not the eating?

I am always open to trying new ways of training. For the duration of the log I will run Doggcrapp because that is what brundel suggested. I have tried just about every kind of split. I have gotten the best results doing full body workouts.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

If anyone wants to see what will happen if you just run vector in a CONTROLLED environment where nothing changes but adding the supplement they can check out The Solution log or ask him about it. This log has a ton of variables in it, with the only real constant being a massive calorie surplus. A massive calorie surplus for a natural will create a lot of body fat regardless of macros and food choices. Unless they are taking something that will use that surplus in a way AAS would. We are trying to see what happens when Vector is given a massive calorie surplus. So far it hasn’t worked the way we would hope. I don’t think making food changes is going to drastically effect body composition. A large caloric surplus is still just that and will lead to more body fat as the log progresses unless the vector kicks in.

If you don’t think it’ll make a real difference on body composition, why are you going to drastically alter your diet, spending more money and taking more effort to eat? Also, if you and Brundel are so certain that it’ll kick in, why alter your diet at all? Why not just stick to it and see if Vector kicks in with what you’re currently doing? The logic here is just so bad man...

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Let’s stop eating dairy
So I can go spend extra money on probiotics and enzymes which are found in dairy


Mind = blown

And let’s spend money on fiber supplements because we cut out fruits and/or vegetables. Brilliant!

 

[BEAST73]

I am always open to trying new ways of training. For the duration of the log I will run Doggcrapp because that is what brundel suggested. I have tried just about every kind of split. I have gotten the best results doing full body workouts.

What about compound movements?

 

[pfresh]

If you don’t think it’ll make a real difference on body composition, why are you going to drastically alter your diet, spending more money and taking more effort to eat? Also, if you and Brundel are so certain that it’ll kick in, why alter your diet at all? Why not just stick to it and see if Vector kicks in with what you’re currently doing? The logic here is just so bad man...

I am doing everything exactly the way it is being laid out so that people like bigsmall can’t say you didn’t do this or that right and that is the reason it didn’t work for you. At the end of the day if i did everything exactly the way it was laid out and I still ended up fat, what does that say?

 

[The Solution]

I am doing everything exactly the way it is being laid out so that people like bigsmall can’t say you didn’t do this or that right and that is the reason it didn’t work for you. At the end of the day if i did everything exactly the way it was laid out and I still ended up fat, what does that say?

Why do you care what a banned person has to say? This is your log not his

Why does what he says matter? Is he your god? Did you go to church and worship bigsmall and take your bottle of vector to the alter?

Doubtful

Cut dairy so you spend extra money on probiotics and enzymes
Cut fruit so you spend extra money on fiber supplements

Your logic is not only laughable your wasting your money on more products you are a supplement companies wet dream

Carry on as you please that’s the last I’ll say here

 

[pfresh]

What about compound movements?

Before this log I was following this

Invalid Link Removed


It worked really well and I would suggest it to anyone who is looking for a very simple way to lean down, look great and get stronger while only being in the gym 3 days a week. It works great for naturals due to the low volume. You recover well and hit all the major compound lifts.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

I am doing everything exactly the way it is being laid out so that people like bigsmall can’t say you didn’t do this or that right and that is the reason it didn’t work for you. At the end of the day if i did everything exactly the way it was laid out and I still ended up fat, what does that say?

Bigsmall is a banned user who had a raging boner for BLR products and attacked anyone who was even slightly less infatuated with them. This log you’re running, at this point, will say LITERALLY NOTHING about Vector, as if you notice positive changes now, it will be attributed to the diet. Brundel will swear to the havens from the mountaintops that it was Vector, but anyone with even a cursory level of common sense and critical thinking would say otherwise. So you’ll please one banned troll and one company owner who has a vested interest in the product and has made outlandish claims and recommendations here and elsewhere, but for people actually thinking about using Vector and wondering what it does, this log will tell them nothing, unfortunately, unless you keep things how they have been and see if Vector finally kicks in.

 

[pfresh]

Bigsmall is a banned user who had a raging boner for BLR products and attacked anyone who was even slightly less infatuated with them. This log you’re running, at this point, will say LITERALLY NOTHING about Vector, as if you notice positive changes now, it will be attributed to the diet. Brundel will swear to the havens from the mountaintops that it was Vector, but anyone with even a cursory level of common sense and critical thinking would say otherwise. So you’ll please one banned troll and one company owner who has a vested interest in the product and has made outlandish claims and recommendations here and elsewhere, but for people actually thinking about using Vector and wondering what it does, this log will tell them nothing, unfortunately, unless you keep things how they have been and see if Vector finally kicks in.

Do you think that changing macros/ food choices while still having the same calorie progression are going to change the end results?

The changes are no dairy/fruit,a probiotic to help digestion of the large amounts of food and the carbs have been lowered while the fats have been upped.

My hypothesis is that I am still going to get as fat as I would have before making these changes.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Do you think that changing macros/ food choices while still having the same calorie progression are going to change the end results?

The changes are no dairy/fruit,a probiotic to help digestion of the large amounts of food and the carbs have been lowered while the fats have been upped.

My hypothesis is that I am still going to get as fat as I would have before making these changes.

I think that it will make things more difficult for you. I don’t expect it to drastically change the end result, but that’s besides the point. The point is IF it does, or if you start making better progress for ANY reason, then we will NOT KNOW if it was the change in diet or the Vector finally kicking in that was responsible for the results.

Your hypothesis now focuses on your diet instead or Vector. See the problem? If your hypothesis deals with your diet, then so does your experiment; the log is no longer about Vector at this point then, it’s about the diet.

 

[pfresh]

I think that it will make things more difficult for you. I don’t expect it to drastically change the end result, but that’s besides the point. The point is IF it does, or if you start making better progress for ANY reason, then we will NOT KNOW if it was the change in diet or the Vector finally kicking in that was responsible for the results.

Your hypothesis now focuses on your diet instead or Vector. See the problem? If your hypothesis deals with your diet, then so does your experiment; the log is no longer about Vector at this point then, it’s about the diet.

This is a great counter argument. I feel like the tribe has spoken. Every single person who has chimed in has said don’t change your diet, we don’t like this,this won’t tell us a thing about whether it works or not. So I will stay the course and leave the diet unchanged. As for the probiotic, my better half takes them anyways so she can keep the bottle I bought. I didn’t think the changes would make a difference and that is why I easily went along with them but after seeing how passionately opposed the community was to the changes, I will not make them.

 

[pfresh]

Why do you care what a banned person has to say? This is your log not his

Why does what he says matter? Is he your god? Did you go to church and worship bigsmall and take your bottle of vector to the alter?

Doubtful

Cut dairy so you spend extra money on probiotics and enzymes
Cut fruit so you spend extra money on fiber supplements

Your logic is not only laughable your wasting your money on more products you are a supplement companies wet dream

Carry on as you please that’s the last I’ll say here

I think the suggestion to cut dairy was because I was taking lactaseInvalid Link Removed enzymes to digest the diary and often buying the lactose free form of products. This is because I am fairly lactose intolerant.The fibre supplements were being suggested because he thought I may not be getting enough fibre in my diet. I do not need a fibre supplement to hit my fibre goals without fruit. So I never purchased any. The probiotics were being suggested to help ease the discomfort of the continual increases of food.

 

[ValiantThor08]

I personally do not recommend adding fiber, and definitely not adding fiber to your high protein meals. It can hinder nutrient absorption.

 

[MrKleen73]

You’re eating 4k+ calories; a little naturally occurring sugar from fruits is NOT what’s breaking your diet... it’s too high or a caloric surplus; the laws of thermodynamics will not be overruled...

Agreed

I hope avocados are allowed because I just bought a ton of them Invalid Link Removed

It's your diet you choose what is allowed. However while they are fresh mash them put some salt and lemon or lime juice in them and put them in serving size freezer bags. Then they are ready to go any day you want them and if in a lunch box they are still good by lunch because they were frozen already. Add add some pico if you like guac!

pfresh, Have you thought about changing your exercise scheme and not the eating?

If he did something with higher volume, he would increase energy output. However if trying to keep variables similar probably not the way to go for the sake of consistency during the log.

I am doing everything exactly the way it is being laid out so that people like bigsmall can’t say you didn’t do this or that right and that is the reason it didn’t work for you. At the end of the day if i did everything exactly the way it was laid out and I still ended up fat, what does that say?

Just that your calories were too high.

Do you think that changing macros/ food choices while still having the same calorie progression are going to change the end results?

The changes are no dairy/fruit,a probiotic to help digestion of the large amounts of food and the carbs have been lowered while the fats have been upped.

My hypothesis is that I am still going to get as fat as I would have before making these changes.

Well some of the changes he suggested were halting the increases until bodyfat was under control, so immediately that is not continuing the caloric increases you outlined. Now if you are going to eat the exact same stuff he recommends but still follow the caloric progression then that isn't that different. However if you scrap the planned increases to maintain composition then you are no longer conducting the experiment you set out to learn from. If you say now lesson learned this stuff didn't do the trick half the people will say no duh, and the other half will say he didn't even finish it to give it time to kick in. If you keep the caloric increases without adding cardio but stick to his dietary restrictions then okay I don't see too much of a problem there. The benefit from the higher TEF from the increased protein is going to burn you extra 100-200 calories a day depending on normal levels, so go for it. However we go in knowing that addition of protein is legitimately a cut in usable calories.

I think the suggestion to cut dairy was because I was taking lactaseInvalid Link Removed enzymes to digest the diary and often buying the lactose free form of products. This is because I am fairly lactose intolerant.The fibre supplements were being suggested because he thought I may not be getting enough fibre in my diet. I do not need a fibre supplement to hit my fibre goals without fruit. So I never purchased any. The probiotics were being suggested to help ease the discomfort of the continual increases of food.

Ah the lactose intolerance makes sense there but again you could easily and healthily hit your calories much easier and not need the extra enzymes. However I DO RECOMMEND THEM if following this plan. You are going into it knowing you have to minimize the damage from the jump you do realize this right? I understand a steroid cycle needing cycle support, but a "healthy diet"? not so much. This plan is so uncomfortable before you even start you get told you should be using probiotics and digestive enzymes to help with digestion because your body can not naturally keep up without issues...

I will leave you alone on this because I feel like you are probably feeling pressured on both sides and want to give the product its best chance while still sticking to your word. I think if you want to follow the restrictions laid out by brundel while keeping to your original progression then you are still keeping your integrity.

If not the other way to keep your integrity is to say screw the experiment guys, it aint worth it to gain any more and I am not going to pretend to be doing an experiment if changing my progression levels so this is just a normal log from here on out because nothing will be conclusive. As in all logs where people change their diet up for the product specifically.

 

[MrKleen73]

Avocados have a good bit of potassium too, OP. Far more than a banana or serving of green veg.

An easy way to get in natural form of potassium is unsulfured molasses, 600mg per teaspoon but that has sugar in it. Great pre workout with a gram of sea salt to get nice pumps!

 

[pfresh]

Agreed

It's your diet you choose what is allowed. However while they are fresh mash them put some salt and lemon or lime juice in them and put them in serving size freezer bags. Then they are ready to go any day you want them and if in a lunch box they are still good by lunch because they were frozen already. Add add some pico if you like guac!


If he did something with higher volume, he would increase energy output. However if trying to keep variables similar probably not the way to go for the sake of consistency during the log.


Just that your calories were too high.


Well some of the changes he suggested were halting the increases until bodyfat was under control, so immediately that is not continuing the caloric increases you outlined. Now if you are going to eat the exact same stuff he recommends but still follow the caloric progression then that isn't that different. However if you scrap the planned increases to maintain composition then you are no longer conducting the experiment you set out to learn from. If you say now lesson learned this stuff didn't do the trick half the people will say no duh, and the other half will say he didn't even finish it to give it time to kick in. If you keep the caloric increases without adding cardio but stick to his dietary restrictions then okay I don't see too much of a problem there. The benefit from the higher TEF from the increased protein is going to burn you extra 100-200 calories a day depending on normal levels, so go for it. However we go in knowing that addition of protein is legitimately a cut in usable calories.



Ah the lactose intolerance makes sense there but again you could easily and healthily hit your calories much easier and not need the extra enzymes. However I DO RECOMMEND THEM if following this plan. You are going into it knowing you have to minimize the damage from the jump you do realize this right? I understand a steroid cycle needing cycle support, but a "healthy diet"? not so much. This plan is so uncomfortable before you even start you get told you should be using probiotics and digestive enzymes to help with digestion because your body can not naturally keep up without issues...

I will leave you alone on this because I feel like you are probably feeling pressured on both sides and want to give the product its best chance while still sticking to your word. I think if you want to follow the restrictions laid out by brundel while keeping to your original progression then you are still keeping your integrity.

If not the other way to keep your integrity is to say screw the experiment guys, it aint worth it to gain any more and I am not going to pretend to be doing an experiment if changing my progression levels so this is just a normal log from here on out because nothing will be conclusive. As in all logs where people change their diet up for the product specifically.

Thank you Mr.Kleen, this is solid, helpful advice. You are a true gentlemen in the way you conduct yourself and I appreciate how helpful you are. I was planning on sticking to the original progression and just cutting the dairy/ fruits while taking the probiotic to help ease digestion. (My stomach hasn’t been the best due probably to all the dairy.)

However that seemed to cause an uproar and cause people to insult me and not be overly friendly. So I decided just to stick to the diet I have been running as to avoid future conflict.

 

[pfresh]

An easy way to get in natural form of potassium is unsulfured molasses, 600mg per teaspoon but that has sugar in it. Great pre workout with a gram of sea salt to get nice pumps!

I actually have some of this in the cupboard. I have taken it a few days post workout when I wasn’t getting enough .

 

[pfresh]

I think I am going to cut back on the dairy regardless, I am going to try and get my protein from other sources. I have generally been sticking to the lactose free forms as a rule of thumb but I still feel like it is causing bloating. I was relying on it out of convenience as it was easily prepared.

 

[HIT4ME]

I think that it will make things more difficult for you. I don’t expect it to drastically change the end result, but that’s besides the point. The point is IF it does, or if you start making better progress for ANY reason, then we will NOT KNOW if it was the change in diet or the Vector finally kicking in that was responsible for the results.

Your hypothesis now focuses on your diet instead or Vector. See the problem? If your hypothesis deals with your diet, then so does your experiment; the log is no longer about Vector at this point then, it’s about the diet.

Oh...um...I think we might know.

Thank you Mr.Kleen, this is solid, helpful advice. You are a true gentlemen in the way you conduct yourself and I appreciate how helpful you are. I was planning on sticking to the original progression and just cutting the dairy/ fruits while taking the probiotic to help ease digestion. (My stomach hasn’t been the best due probably to all the dairy.)

However that seemed to cause an uproar and cause people to insult me and not be overly friendly. So I decided just to stick to the diet I have been running as to avoid future conflict.

Sorry if you feel attacked man. I get that - you do what you want and stand your ground. Don't worry about judgement here. We just want to lay out our logic and some of us may feel strongly. It is OK for you to feel equally as strong...we just don't see the logic.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Oh...um...I think we might know.



Sorry if you feel attacked man. I get that - you do what you want and stand your ground. Don't worry about judgement here. We just want to lay out our logic and some of us may feel strongly. It is OK for you to feel equally as strong...we just don't see the logic.

This. We all will respect whatever decision you make; we just want it to be the most educated decision it can be. It’s easy to just want to believe whatever Brundel tells you to do because he made the product and owns a company, and talks about all the IFBB pros he helped, so we wanted to be sure that you had other views/ideas as well. Good luck, and respect for even sticking around this long and responding to posts in this heated thread OP.

 

[pfresh]

This. We all will respect whatever decision you make; we just want it to be the most educated decision it can be. It’s easy to just want to believe whatever Brundel tells you to do because he made the product and owns a company, and talks about all the IFBB pros he helped, so we wanted to be sure that you had other views/ideas as well. Good luck, and respect for even sticking around this long and responding to posts in this heated thread OP.

It’s all good, I appreciate everyone’s support and wealth of knowledge. At the end of the day I feel like for the most part people are only trying to help.

 

[MrKleen73]

Thank you Mr.Kleen, this is solid, helpful advice. You are a true gentlemen in the way you conduct yourself and I appreciate how helpful you are. I was planning on sticking to the original progression and just cutting the dairy/ fruits while taking the probiotic to help ease digestion. (My stomach hasn’t been the best due probably to all the dairy.)

However that seemed to cause an uproar and cause people to insult me and not be overly friendly. So I decided just to stick to the diet I have been running as to avoid future conflict.

You eat however you want and take anything you need for gut health brother. It effects too many other things not to take care of it. Start paying attention to gut health while young the issues tend to get worse with age.

 

[pfresh]

Workout log

Dumbbell curl

Rest pause rep goal 20-30
40 pound dumbbells

1) 16
2) 9
3)5

Rep total 30

Increase weight next workout


Standing pin wheel curl

Straight set rep goal 11-20
40 pound dumbbells

1) 17

Horizontal calf raise

Straight set rep goal 10-12
270 pounds

1) 12


V squat

Straight set rep goal 6-10
344 pounds

1) 15

Widowmaker

284 pounds

2) 20

I was going for rep 21 and was completely done got to the bottom stop and couldn’t get back up. These really do a number on me.


Romanian deadlift

Straight set rep goal 11-15
275 pounds

1) 12

Last time

 

[pfresh]

Work out log .

Smashed the log book again. This seems to be happening every time I come back to a workout lately. Definitely getting stronger


Dumb bell curl

Restpause rep goal 20-30
45 pound dumbbells

1)10
2)8
3)6

Rep total 24 reps

Pin wheel curl

Straight set rep goal 11-20
40 pound dumbbells

1) 20 reps

Horizontal calf raise

Straight set rep goal 10-12
280 pounds

1)11

V squat to stop

Straight set rep goal
6-10
354 pounds

1)16

Widowmaker
289 pounds

2) 22


Romanian dead lift

Straight set rep goal 10-15
275 pounds

1)13

 

[MrKleen73]

Nice workout!

 

[pfresh]

Nice workout!

I am really enjoying the dc training. I think it is good for bulking. The workouts have just enough time to recover from before you hit the same muscle groups again. The variety also keeps things interesting.

 

[ValiantThor08]

I am really enjoying the dc training. I think it is good for bulking. The workouts have just enough time to recover from before you hit the same muscle groups again. The variety also keeps things interesting.

So how long are your workouts in general now? I would like to start a DC plan, however will be working 3.5 days in a row. Long days for 3 days in a row, and don't think I can do DC if I cant lift EOD.

 

[pfresh]

So how long are your workouts in general now? I would like to start a DC plan, however will be working 3.5 days in a row. Long days for 3 days in a row, and don't think I can do DC if I cant lift EOD.

Depends on how you set up your rest time between exercises. You could get it done in less than an hour or you could be there for an hour and a half. I tend to like to rest 4 minutes between sets on things like squats , so my workouts take longer.

Long days like 12 hour shifts? If it’s only 3 days in a row you could make it so two of those days were cardio days , one was a rest day and the other was a workout.

That would minimize time in the gym during your busy time.

 

[ValiantThor08]

Depends on how you set up your rest time between exercises. You could get it done in less than an hour or you could be there for an hour and a half. I tend to like to rest 4 minutes between sets on things like squats , so my workouts take longer.

Long days like 12 hour shifts? If it’s only 3 days in a row you could make it so two of those days were cardio days , one was a rest day and the other was a workout.

That would minimize time in the gym during your busy time.

Yes, 12 hours, or longer, plus over an hour commute from home to work, and back. Those days very difficult to hit the gym. I also don't do cardio. My job, I lift fridges, ranges, dryers, washes, and install them. Very physically demanding. Workout days would be sun, mon, Tues, wed. Possibly Saturday if I get off early.

 

[pfresh]

Yes, 12 hours, or longer, plus over an hour commute from home to work, and back. Those days very difficult to hit the gym. I also don't do cardio. My job, I lift fridges, ranges, dryers, washes, and install them. Very physically demanding. Workout days would be sun, mon, Tues, wed. Possibly Saturday if I get off early.

Sounds like your job already takes a lot out of you. Have you ever thought about running a simple abbreviated training routine? I have made great progress on those before and they work very well for natural guys. You only have to be in the gym two to three days a week but you focus on getting stronger on the big compound lifts.

Invalid Link Removed

If you are already working a very physical job, you may make better progress doing less. It’s always great to experiment with new things. Don’t feel like you are cheating yourself by doing less. Your body may be thankful for the extra recovery time.

 

[ValiantThor08]

Personal focus has been strictly hypertrophy until I get to a person al weight goal.

 

[Rocket3015]

Smashing the log book is always a great feeling and an indication you are doing something right.

 

[MrKleen73]

So how long are your workouts in general now? I would like to start a DC plan, however will be working 3.5 days in a row. Long days for 3 days in a row, and don't think I can do DC if I cant lift EOD.

Yes, 12 hours, or longer, plus over an hour commute from home to work, and back. Those days very difficult to hit the gym. I also don't do cardio. My job, I lift fridges, ranges, dryers, washes, and install them. Very physically demanding. Workout days would be sun, mon, Tues, wed. Possibly Saturday if I get off early.

You can do DC, no reason not too. May not be the exact same split but it isn't the split that is doing the work for you. It is the rest pause reps, and the continuously beating the log.

Doesn't have to be EOD,

Day 1 Upper
Day 2 Lower and Biceps
Day 3 off
Day 4 Upper
Day 5 off
Day 6 Lower and Biceps
Day 7 off
Day 8 Upper
Day 9 Off
Day 10 Lower & Biceps
Day 11 Upper
Day 12 off

See you are still getting about 3-4 days recovery in between each session for the body part. Just move them around. Don't get caught up on the days or the split format being exact. Just do your back to backs on the 3 days off. You can be creative with it, it does not have to be perfect, just get 3-5 days in between training the body parts and you are good to go.

 

[ValiantThor08]

You can do DC, no reason not too. May not be the exact same split but it isn't the split that is doing the work for you. It is the rest pause reps, and the continuously beating the log.

Doesn't have to be EOD,

Day 1 Upper
Day 2 Lower and Biceps
Day 3 off
Day 4 Upper
Day 5 off
Day 6 Lower and Biceps
Day 7 off
Day 8 Upper
Day 9 Off
Day 10 Lower & Biceps
Day 11 Upper
Day 12 off

See you are still getting about 3-4 days recovery in between each session for the body part. Just move them around. Don't get caught up on the days or the split format being exact. Just do your back to backs on the 3 days off. You can be creative with it, it does not have to be perfect, just get 3-5 days in between training the body parts and you are good to go.

What is a "rest pause rep" considered?

 

[MrKleen73]

What is a "rest pause rep" considered?

Warm up however many sets you need to get warm and ready for the work set. Do as many reps as you can, rack the weight breath 5 deep breathes or 10-15 seconds then pick up the weight and go again for as man reps as possible, rack and repeat one more time.

Every Rep done after the initial pause is considered an RP rep, or the minisets are RP sets... Basically it is those reps you have to struggle to get that are the "productive reps" making you grow. The RP allows you to get more productive reps with less overall volume by limiting intraset recovery and getting to the hard reps much faster with less "wasted" reps on following sets.

The idea is you can lift a little heavier, and also get more productive reps before totally failing.

Difference is kind of like this

PR = Productive reps

Normal = Bench 225x 5 sets x10 - Set 1, 2, & 3 no PR, Set 4 = 1 PR, Set 5 = 2 PR a total of 3 productive reps out of 50

DC = Bench 245 x10, 3, 2 = Initial set x 10 with 3 PR, RP set 1 = 3PR, RP Set 2 = 2 PR = Total of 8 productive reps out of 15.

So it allows you to both go heavier by being fresh and having less volume, while also giving you more than twice the productive reps. Even though this focuses a good bit on strength it is also pretty forgiving on the joints because the actual volume is so low.

Difference in overall volume
Straight Sets = 11250
DC = 3675

Which one is more likely to have an overuse injury? Straight sets... Now straight up injury, sprains or tears, DC might be a little higher risk for something like that, but definitely less likely for overuse which tends to be the bulk of most injuries when it comes to training.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Warm up however many sets you need to get warm and ready for the work set. Do as many reps as you can, rack the weight breath 5 deep breathes or 10-15 seconds then pick up the weight and go again for as man reps as possible, rack and repeat one more time.

Every Rep done after the initial pause is considered an RP rep, or the minisets are RP sets... Basically it is those reps you have to struggle to get that are the "productive reps" making you grow. The RP allows you to get more productive reps with less overall volume by limiting intraset recovery and getting to the hard reps much faster with less "wasted" reps on following sets.

The idea is you can lift a little heavier, and also get more productive reps before totally failing.

Difference is kind of like this

PR = Productive reps

Normal = Bench 225x 5 sets x10 - Set 1, 2, & 3 no PR, Set 4 = 1 PR, Set 5 = 2 PR a total of 3 productive reps out of 50

DC = Bench 245 x10, 3, 2 = Initial set x 10 with 3 PR, RP set 1 = 3PR, RP Set 2 = 2 PR = Total of 8 productive reps out of 15.

So it allows you to both go heavier by being fresh and having less volume, while also giving you more than twice the productive reps. Even though this focuses a good bit on strength it is also pretty forgiving on the joints because the actual volume is so low.

Difference in overall volume
Straight Sets = 11250
DC = 3675

Which one is more likely to have an overuse injury? Straight sets... Now straight up injury, sprains or tears, DC might be a little higher risk for something like that, but definitely less likely for overuse which tends to be the bulk of most injuries when it comes to training.

But there’s still something to be said for time under tension, which is significantly greater in the first approach assuming solid form. But yeah, if you’re just doing RP for a primary exercise and then some straight sets for accessories it’s a useful technique.

 

[ValiantThor08]

Warm up however many sets you need to get warm and ready for the work set. Do as many reps as you can, rack the weight breath 5 deep breathes or 10-15 seconds then pick up the weight and go again for as man reps as possible, rack and repeat one more time.

Every Rep done after the initial pause is considered an RP rep, or the minisets are RP sets... Basically it is those reps you have to struggle to get that are the "productive reps" making you grow. The RP allows you to get more productive reps with less overall volume by limiting intraset recovery and getting to the hard reps much faster with less "wasted" reps on following sets.

The idea is you can lift a little heavier, and also get more productive reps before totally failing.

Difference is kind of like this

PR = Productive reps

Normal = Bench 225x 5 sets x10 - Set 1, 2, & 3 no PR, Set 4 = 1 PR, Set 5 = 2 PR a total of 3 productive reps out of 50

DC = Bench 245 x10, 3, 2 = Initial set x 10 with 3 PR, RP set 1 = 3PR, RP Set 2 = 2 PR = Total of 8 productive reps out of 15.

So it allows you to both go heavier by being fresh and having less volume, while also giving you more than twice the productive reps. Even though this focuses a good bit on strength it is also pretty forgiving on the joints because the actual volume is so low.

Difference in overall volume
Straight Sets = 11250
DC = 3675

Which one is more likely to have an overuse injury? Straight sets... Now straight up injury, sprains or tears, DC might be a little higher risk for something like that, but definitely less likely for overuse which tends to be the bulk of most injuries when it comes to training.

Thanks! And thanks TheSolution

I do a ton of overall volume. I believe I will altar my training style to RP. My joints will surely thank me.

 

[ValiantThor08]

But there’s still something to be said for time under tension, which is significantly greater in the first approach assuming solid form. But yeah, if you’re just doing RP for a primary exercise and then some straight sets for accessories it’s a useful technique.

I grew quickly on TUT. Probably the most painful training style I have done. Have taken a break from TUT lately.