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fda.gov/ICECI/EnforcementActions/WarningLetters/ucm626270.htm
Yeah thats why he had a blowout sale,sold it all and discontinued the product lol where ya been brofda.gov/ICECI/EnforcementActions/WarningLetters/ucm626270.htm
Interesting, Wiki page on it describes it as an atypical antidepressant... Of the tricyclic class, like the flexiril I take for back muscles and sleep.I suppose that’s what happens when you go putting relatively strong unscheduled opioids into stuff. A better option might have been kratom. At least that’s a whole herb. Looks a little less conspicuous. Though I mean the fda is so clueless sometimes I’m surprised they knew what tianeptine sodium even was.
There was nothing questionable about it at all. The product worked excellent. And as for the ingredients, everyone that bought it was urged to research and everyone here on the forum knew exactly what it is/was. There was zero hiding it, etc..Oh, I went rounds with MA over this topic when it first came out. It was a joke how little he cared how the ingredient profile was questionable to say the least. I’m surprised it lasted as long as it did and people actually bought it.
Including known addictive ingredients is most definitely questionable unless you can justify creating addiction to make your product more popular.There was nothing questionable about it at all. The product worked excellent. And as for the ingredients, everyone that bought it was urged to research and everyone here on the forum knew exactly what it is/was. There was zero hiding it, etc..
Likewise if someone wants to purchase Kratom same thing. FDA is constantly going after that, and there are certainly some mild risks for some people and certain population, but again...to each his own. Research it, and if you like it, and you want it buy it. No need to rain on other people's parade because of your specific morals/ethics towards a product.
On that basis, then no pain meds, prescribed or not should exist. No kratom. No marijuana. No CBD. No Phenibut. Nothing with potential "addicitve" qualities. Supplements and Steroids can be psychologically addictive....so we should not have those. Nor should we have Psych meds and anti-depressants. I can't tell you how many of those I administered in the medical field, minus the patients being educated by their doctors, who then became physically reliant on those compounds.Including known addictive ingredients is most definitely questionable unless you can justify creating addiction to make your product more popular.
Prescription is 100% different than a supplement a 15 year old kid can buy online. Marijuana and CBD are far from addictive. Kratom and Phenibut are the only mentioned things that are a relevant discussion.On that basis, then no pain meds, prescribed or not should exist. No kratom. No marijuana. No CBD. No Phenibut. Nothing with potential "addicitve" qualities. Supplements and Steroids can be psychologically addictive....so we should not have those. Nor should we have Psych meds and anti-depressants. I can't tell you how many of those I administered in the medical field, minus the patients being educated by their doctors, who then became physically reliant on those compounds.
Explain to me how a 15 year old can purchase?Prescription is 100% different than a supplement a 15 year old kid can buy online. Marijuana and CBD are far from addictive. Kratom and Phenibut are the only mentioned things that are a relevant discussion.
I get the point you’re making, but “psychologically addicting” is quite different than PHYSIOLOGICALLY addicting. But I’m a libertarian, so you won’t find me in support of criminalizing much at all haha. It’s arguably safer for people to be able to buy drugs from legitimate sellers with assurance of potency and purity than to buy from their friendly neighborhood drug dealer and his gang of merry men. As long as you’re upfront and honest about the potential of the drug in question, that’s about as much as can be reasonably asked for.On that basis, then no pain meds, prescribed or not should exist. No kratom. No marijuana. No CBD. No Phenibut. Nothing with potential "addicitve" qualities. Supplements and Steroids can be psychologically addictive....so we should not have those. Nor should we have Psych meds and anti-depressants. I can't tell you how many of those I administered in the medical field, minus the patients being educated by their doctors, who then became physically reliant on those compounds.
Questionbable in the sense it wasn't DSHEA compliant? Obviously.Oh, I went rounds with MA over this topic when it first came out. It was a joke how little he cared how the ingredient profile was questionable to say the least. I’m surprised it lasted as long as it did and people actually bought it.
Do you want to know how many people had addiction issues with regular Vicaine? None. I can prove that...because I set things up before I started selling it to track all sales..and was prepared to pull the plug if I started seeing things go south (although I was 99% sure things would be fine). I know exactly who bought it, when they bought it, and how many they bought,.Including known addictive ingredients is most definitely questionable unless you can justify creating addiction to make your product more popular.
True.Explain to me how a 15 year old can purchase?
Could a 15 year old go into his parents medicine cabinet and take out a prescription and abuse it? What about Alcohol or cigarettes. Those are addictive. We shouldn't sell those to responsible people.
This whole argument is the same as people who think the Gov't knows what is best for them and that Controlling things will prevent them from occuring. Just like banning guns would prevent people from committing Gun Crimes right? See Chicago's stats.
Wish I bought some before. Canada actually I like to ditch my tech for a weekend and go mountain climbing.Yeah thats why he had a blowout sale,sold it all and discontinued the product lol where ya been bro
This is not entirely true. If you read the entire letter, you’d see that the FDA said that even if those claims were not made, the inclusion of tianeptine would still make the product considered “adulterated” in their terminology. Most places still selling tianeptine sell it for “research purposes” for their “lab rats” lol.I was reading a bunch of articles on Mike's Vicaine after it was banned and I found it interesting that the government didn't go after what was technically IN vicaine, they went after him based on his wording of the product. Pro Opioid / Hedonic etc. They went after him because people who abuse opiates will buy the product based on that. It's true that Vicaine isn't technically addictive, but if it was available, I'd sure keep on purchasing it every 2-3 months. It was a bit pricey for my taste, and I didn't realize it until I started sourcing the ingredients found in vicaine. I've made my own version that I can take in 1 capsule which works effectively like taking 2 of vicaine. The best thing about vicaine was it was super great for workouts in the morning. 2 hour workouts flew right by with intensive training.
He has brought up a point that someone who will abuse tianeptine is more likely to do so using a standalone product than this blend, which is a fair point I suppose. The name is a portmanteau of Vicodin and Cocaine IIRC, so it’s probably not a surprise it got someone’s attention who had access to the “ban hammer.” I’m also not saying only/mostly research companies sell it, but if you look at most of them, they’ll say “not for human consumption” somewhere on the product, even if most of what they sell are intended for human consumption.I read it again and yes you are correct, but it still seemed that they went after him because of his wording - that sort of red flagged it and then went after the ingredients. The places that I have found tia ready to sell aren't research companies at all, so I think it's just how you go about your customer base. Regardless, vicaine was one hell of a product. Top notch on that one.
Life is inherently dangerous but his product could have been safely used. Hell people sell peanuts even though it kills 100s a year. It's a matter of prospective.I remember when I warned mike arnold privately about this product days after it was released.
I wonder if the people who submitted the adverse event reports from this product to the FDA know that people advised you your product was dangerous and you sold it anyway.
F*cking peanut sellers. I hate'm! Ba#tards.Life is inherently dangerous but his product could have been safely used. Hell people sell peanuts even though it kills 100s a year. It's a matter of prospective.
Which is exactly what he did. Also anyone he used the product, knew it was like not quite like opioids. It had a mild buzz to it and made you feel alright. However, it definitely didn't have no opioid euphoria. I actually really enjoyed it. It subtlety relaxing and stimulating. It was perfect the occasionally "fuk it" day where you just didn't want to go to work, but you had to. Also the bottle was very clear on dosing and frequency of use.I get the point you’re making, but “psychologically addicting” is quite different than PHYSIOLOGICALLY addicting. But I’m a libertarian, so you won’t find me in support of criminalizing much at all haha. It’s arguably safer for people to be able to buy drugs from legitimate sellers with assurance of potency and purity than to buy from their friendly neighborhood drug dealer and his gang of merry men. As long as you’re upfront and honest about the potential of the drug in question, that’s about as much as can be reasonably asked for.
The name was a portmanteau of “VICodin” and “CocAINE,” I don’t think he was trying to hide anything lol. But I’m not surprised its time has come; there’s no questioning it’s not compliant and this would happen eventually, no matter what he said or how the explained it.Which is exactly what he did. Also anyone he used the product, knew it was like opioids at all. It had a mild buzz to it and made you feel alright. However, it definitely didn't have no opioid euphoria. I actually really enjoyed it. It subtlety relaxing and stimulating. It was perfect the occasionally "fuk it" day where you just didn't want to go to work, but you had to. Also the bottle was very clear on dosing and frequency of use.
AgreedThe name was a portmanteau of “VICodin” and “CocAINE,” I don’t think he was trying to hide anything lol. But I’m not surprised its time has come; there’s no questioning it’s not compliant and this would happen eventually, no matter what he said or how the explained it.
Is your lab rat feeling depressed? Buy this experimental euphoria-inducing blend for your rat today!Mike Arnold it may be time to bring out a non-tianeptine based euphorigenic product. Kinda like the one I PMed you about? Probably need to change names on the Supplement, and be more vague about "human" usage.
Hahahaha kind of. But we discussed something that would actually be beneficial for depression, rather than harmful, in the long run. I would like to say more, but don't want to ruin it if he does decide to bring it to the market. You would totally understand what I mean if you saw the profileIs your lab rat feeling depressed? Buy this experimental euphoria-inducing blend for your rat today!
Oh, I’m not saying it couldn’t be useful and probably safer than a ton of things people use without thinking twice about, but it’d be for your depressed lab rat, not for your personal use, of course.Hahahaha kind of. But we discussed something that would actually be beneficial for depression, rather than harmful, in the long run. I would like to say more but don't want to ruin it if he does decide to bring it to the market. You would totally understand what I mean if you say the profile
Dang it! Now you got me really curious about the formula. SWIM and my lab rat could definitely use something that helps with depression.Haha true! Like one the ingredients has shown to increase D2 receptor density in the pre-frontal cortex, as well as striatum. The rest of them are to accentuate this ingredient!
Don't get me wrong this will not a ground breaking by any means. It won't be a "cure" or anything like that. It's not even design to help depression, but it MIGHT help. Also all of the ingredients are stuff that's been used. Just a unique way of putting them together. It will be more a clear headed, mild, stim that should provide a decent— yet mild— euphoria.Dang it! Now you got me really curious about the formula. SWIM and my lab rat could definitely use something that helps with depression.
Although I am working on a "mood" supplement myself. R&D is a long process, and it probably won't be cheap when I bring it out. As the raws—at these dosages— are expensive. Also debating on making 100% DSHEA compliant or not. It should work while being complaint; however, it won't hit a few pathways that I think will really aid in this product being successful. Also depression is a complex thing, with sooooo many pathways involved.
Awesome! I look forward to seeing what you come out with. Currently I'm just trialing bromantane (along with low doses of a thai kratom and blue lotus blend) but am always interested in new/unique products that come out for mood improvements.Although I am working on a "mood" supplement myself. R&D is a long process, and it probably won't be cheap when I bring it out. As the raws—at these dosages— are expensive. Also debating on making 100% DSHEA compliant or not. It should work while being complaint; however, it won't hit a few pathways that I think will really aid in this product being successful. Also depression is a complex thing, with sooooo many pathways involved.
You’re working with a company, have your own company, or are starting your own company?Although I am working on a "mood" supplement myself. R&D is a long process, and it probably won't be cheap when I bring it out. As the raws—at these dosages— are expensive. Also debating on making 100% DSHEA compliant or not. It should work while being complaint; however, it won't hit a few pathways that I think will really aid in this product being successful. Also depression is a complex thing, with sooooo many pathways involved.
I am a HUGE fan of bromantane, blue lotus, kanna, large doses of L-theanine, D,L-phenylalanine, and more .Awesome! I look forward to seeing what you come out with. Currently I'm just trialing bromantane (along with low doses of a thai kratom and blue lotus blend) but am always interested in new/unique products that come out for mood improvements.
I just started the bromantane yesterday. So, don't really have any thoughts on it yet. Starting with just one 50 mg capsule in the morning. What kind of dosing schedule did you use for bromantane?I am a HUGE fan of bromantane, blue lotus, kanna, large doses of L-theanine, D,L-phenylalanine, and more .
Definitely don't recommend kratom, other than on a seldom occasion.
But seriously bromantane is the shít!!!
Starting my own, and it's not a cheap endeavor. Especially since I am going to college, and paying for it on my on dime.You’re working with a company, have your own company, or are starting your own company?
There are so many different theories on proper dosing bromantane. I'm in the camp of 150mg e3d for 3 months, than a break for 3 months and repeat.I just started the bromantane yesterday. So, don't really have any thoughts on it yet. Starting with just one 50 mg capsule in the morning. What kind of dosing schedule did you use for bromantane?
Looking forward to the product hopefully seeing the light of day sooner than later. Sounds like a good one.Starting my own, and it's not a cheap endeavor. Especially since I am going to college, and paying for it on my on dime.
Sounds nice! You know I would be a customer!I am a HUGE fan of bromantane, blue lotus, kanna, large doses of L-theanine, D,L-phenylalanine, and more .
Definitely don't recommend kratom, other than on a seldom occasion.
But seriously bromantane is the shít!!!
That is exactly what me and Mike Arnold discussed, in our PMs, about. I think it's something most of you guys would LOVE!Sounds nice! You know I would be a customer!
On another note, I hope we see a Vicaine successor by Mike as well that hits at least some of the same pathways as Vicaine did. A long lasting euphoric nootropic type supplement is all I’m really looking for. I don’t particularly need the opioid effects that Vicaine offered. There are so many pathways that can be tapped into through different means. I know Mike can do it with a more compliant formula, and I look forward to you hopefully achieving the same!
Lots of things can be safely used.Life is inherently dangerous but his product could have been safely used. Hell people sell peanuts even though it kills 100s a year. It's a matter of prospective.
Does 150 mg e3d for 3 months mean you took 150 mg every 3 days for 3 months...or something else (never seen that abbreviation before and a quick google search didn't turn anything up)? Also, anything you'd recommend that goes well with it? I'm thinking maybe agmatine since it goes well with just about everything (including antidepressants).There are so many different theories on proper dosing bromantane. I'm in the camp of 150mg e3d for 3 months, than a break for 3 months and repeat.
What do you consider a large dose of L-Theanine? I usually take only 200 mg since it's very sedating. However, a few nights ago I tried 600 mg thinking it would knock me out. I was wrong, for some reason the larger dose was very stimulating and kept me up most of the night. Haven't tried it again since.I am a HUGE fan of bromantane, blue lotus, kanna, large doses of L-theanine, D,L-phenylalanine, and more .
Definitely don't recommend kratom, other than on a seldom occasion.
But seriously bromantane is the shít!!!
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