Blast: Trestolone Acetate + Testosterone + Superdrol + LGD / Hairygrandpa blowing up!

[MrKleen73]

High fat diets and starvation also make you more efficient at burning fats. Actually, that is part of the pathology of obesity - reduced ability to burn carbs and increase lipid burning.

If you burn 1000 grams of carbs you burn 250 grams of mass. If you burn 1000 grams of fat, as you pointed out, you only burn 111 grams of fat. You would lose more than twice the weight.

And of course, if you are in a caloric deficit and could convert fat to carbs, you would lose an enormous amount of efficiency in that process.

Most obese people have a dramatically reduced ability to burn carbs though. This is also likely the tie to cancer rates being higher in obese people too.

Not against low carb - but it may be a band aid that merely avoids the systen that is broken altogether.

In other words, being efficient at burning fat for energy isn't necessarily a good thing for weight loss. I understand people think, "I want to lose fat so I want to burn fat" but that's MAY not be the optimal mondset.

Again, unless morbidly obese no one is simply trying to lose weight, they are trying to lose fat. 1000 calories of stored glycogen may burn 250grams of carbs, and drop even more mass off the body. However it does not address the need to burn fat in order to lose fat. Being more efficient at burning fat will make you better at burning fat. This is a good thing, and yes your insulin sensitivity decreases after a long period of time on keto but why wouldn't it if you have intentionally conditioned your body that it does not have access to carbs then it doesn't have to maintain the insulin sensitivity.

Also...keep in mind I am not saying you are not right. Just digging deep into theory here...but there is actually a lot of evidence, IMO, that suggests our view of fat burning, carb burning, gluconeogenesis, etc. May in a way be "backwards". Backwards is the wrong word, it's more about the fact we have redundant systems for survival.

Well any time something is out of balance one system is weakening as the other becomes more efficient. Going to one extreme or the other has it's own inherent risks. Lucky for us the body adapts so well that we can mess it up or intentionally create an imbalance and then go back and start being more balanced and the body typically adjusts quite well to those extremes.

I have found things like the Metabolic Diet, and CBL or even Carb Nite Solution seem to help with metabolic flexibility. I don't tend to count my macros as much on them, just spur some protein synthesis throughout the day if not fasting, and then have carbs in the evening around training.

They won’t make you aggressive - they will wake you up with a rush, so it’s easier to channel your aggression.

But you can use them in between big lifts too if you’re just dragging hard in the session and need to wake up some. They will open the sinuses well.

Yeah just kicks of the Fight or Flight response, pure adrenaline!!! You put it to use how you want it.

Forgive me for the vague nature of this but I’m on holiday with no WiFi and limited ability to look up the exact details but.....

I read recently about some guy out in Scandinavia or Germany I think (not the ice man), who was an endurance runner but like running up mountains and sh1t, he’s just set some record for running up and back down some big mountain in some crazy time. Anyway, point of this mindless rambling was the nutritional aspect (this bit I did remember the details), he basically consumed a zero carb high fat diet as fat is a far more efficient fuel source IF you can switch it to your bodies preferred fuel source (I.e by making it the only one). Apparently most top endurance/ultra type guys do as the bodies limited capacity for carb storage doesn’t really help when balls deep into a 75 mile race.

Moral of the story is that switching your body to preferring fat (and therefore burning it) is possible and would presumably be a good way to drop fat whilst minimising muscle loss (as you aren’t having to fight as much with your body to use the fat as fuel).

If I can get chance I’ll edit with some details

Yes that is being completely fat adapted at that point and running on ketones at all times. Definitely a more efficient fuel source for less intense long duration activities.

Dieting has gotten too complicated and micro managing. Eat on a scheduled basis, lift heavy ****, and enjoy life. No need to micro manage your food unless you are a bodybuilder or have a debilitating disease.


Sent from my iPhone using Invalid Link Removed

It would be so cool if this were possible for most. My metabolism is such that I have to keep a close eye on how much I take in. I can gain fat so quickly it is silly. When I just "watch what I eat" while lifting I tend to grow but get fat too. However things don't have to be counted down to the gram even for my goals. Now I make sure i am in a deficit all day then if I train I try to create as much anabolism as possible via carbs. That keeps me leaning out without counting every gram.

Dieting is micromanaging food, I just got that lmao. I think dieting is over rated tbh but needed in this day and age. Food is used and promotes as a pleasure, not a means to survive.


Sent from my iPhone using Invalid Link Removed

Well to be fair, food is both a source of pleasure, and a means to survive. If it weren't so damn good we wouldn't have people overeating.

have you guys tried getting ART performed on your tendonitis?? I also use sports tape sometimes as well..

I had it so bad I could barely turn the wheel in my truck with out acute pain!! took about 4 months of diligent work to get the lesions and scarring broken up in there so the tendons could move freely. now im back in the game and can even flex my bicep now which was all but inpossible a short time ago.

I have been there too and ART saved the day for me on multiple occasions. Seems at least once a year I go through a rough patch on my elbows / forearms. I took the original issue way too deep because I was prepping for a who and refused to stop training when my elbows started hurting 3 months out. Now I pay for that stubborness at least once a year like I said.

I had ART done after my shoulder reconstruction surgery. It really helped my ROM. However my elbow issues are due to stage 4 arthritis, which is also what plagues my shoulder. due to the accident (fell down a flight of stairs) I sheared off all of the cartilage in my my shoulder (confirmed by the scope used during my surgery) and based on how it feels, and when it started, also my elbow. Then again they also had to bisect my biceps muscle and thread it through a hole in my shoulder blade, so it is a little shorter and runs a slightly different path than normal, and that also adds to the pain. Unfortunately nothing ART can help me with .

I know this might sound a bit odd to you but I recommend you do some weighted carries like farmers, and or suitcase carries. Anything that puts that biceps tendon on a weighted stretch. It will likely sting for a little bit but gradually the connective tissue will both stretch, and adapt by making the entire joint and tendon stronger.

After my shoulder surgery the only way I could work biceps for a while without pain was not straightening my arm out all the way. After starting weighted carries and dealing with the stinging feeling for a couple weeks Within a month I had full ROM, and no more pain from the tendon connection. You might not get the same results but it is worth it, if nothing else what it can do for your yoke, and your biceps growth will be good. Those particular carries actually occlude your biceps in a stretched position at their weakest point creating plenty of metabolic stress to really drive some growth, and in an area of the biceps that is often neglected.

 

[Sparkss]

I know this might sound a bit odd to you but I recommend you do some weighted carries like farmers, and or suitcase carries. Anything that puts that biceps tendon on a weighted stretch. It will likely sting for a little bit but gradually the connective tissue will both stretch, and adapt by making the entire joint and tendon stronger.

After my shoulder surgery the only way I could work biceps for a while without pain was not straightening my arm out all the way. After starting weighted carries and dealing with the stinging feeling for a couple weeks Within a month I had full ROM, and no more pain from the tendon connection. You might not get the same results but it is worth it, if nothing else what it can do for your yoke, and your biceps growth will be good. Those particular carries actually occlude your biceps in a stretched position at their weakest point creating plenty of metabolic stress to really drive some growth, and in an area of the biceps that is often neglected.

I do several exercises specifically to help stretch out my tendons, including my neck tendons which were put under pressure when the disc replacement went in back in December. Although TBH I have not done farmers carries in at least 6 ~ 9 months now, but then again my shoulder surgery was a couple of years ago, and I have done quite a bit of carries between then and now. But to your point I may need to add some back in, I am just limited by the space in my home gym here .

 

[MrKleen73]

I do several exercises specifically to help stretch out my tendons, including my neck tendons which were put under pressure when the disc replacement went in back in December. Although TBH I have not done farmers carries in at least 6 ~ 9 months now, but then again my shoulder surgery was a couple of years ago, and I have done quite a bit of carries between then and now. But to your point I may need to add some back in, I am just limited by the space in my home gym here .

When you do them make sure that you are letting the elbow joint go into hyper-extension, and not guarding the tendon by maintaining tension in the biceps, there should be zero effort to create any bend at the elbow which happens quite naturally if there is any tightness in the biceps tendon. It is a result of the CNS trying to protect you, so you have to stay mentally conscious of that to really get the effect you are looking for.

Also it should go without saying that all carries should be done with scapula retracted and chest tall to get the true benefits out of them.

As far as not having room that one is easy, just walk in place, or 2 steps forward and backward, or walk in a small circle, if small circle make sure to go the opposite direction for the same amount of work on the other side.

 

[HIT4ME]

MrKleen73 - let me explain this a little differently. The PATHOLOGY of obesity involves the following (not the entire story, but a key part) -

You overeat. Insulin downregulates gluconeogenesis, and tries to shuttle nutrients out of the blood. Muscle cells fill with glycogen, and start to burn. If you are good at burning carbs, you will burn these fast. But if you eat again, before those carbs are burned off - you will create a backlog of glucose, which causes your body to start converting carbs to fat. The presence of FFA in the blood ITSELF, increases PDK - which inhibits the use of carbohydrate for energy and switches on fat burning. So, over eating carbs and converting to fat OR eating fat will and ESPECIALLY eating carbs AND Fat will all do this. Carbs just happen to require a significant overload and time to create the situation.

This increase in PDK is one of the, if not the major, cause of insulin resistance and metabolic dysfunction. Now, since PDK is elevated, you can shuttle carbs into cells still, at first, but they will be burned more slowly because PDK is high and carb burning is hindered. Of course, this triggers the cycle even more, which increases PDK even more, which just keeps going until your body can clear things out at the very least. In the meantime, insulin is trying to bring the FFA levels down and since the muscle cells are full and unable to burn any carbs that are available, it means higher blood sugar, which means more lipogenesis, which means more fat conversion.

The more this happens, the more PDK is created, the more the PDC is inhibited, the better you are at burning fat and the worse you are at burning carbs. If this gets bad enough (like obesity or after a keto diet perhaps?) - eventually you will be so bad at burning carbs that ANY carbs you eat will NEED to be stored as fat before they are burned for fuel. It never gets to that 100% mark really, but the carb burning is dramatically reduced and the fat burning is dramatically increased.

And while I agree with you that we can adapt and we are good at changing - this does not appear to be the case here. Or at least it is very hard to change. It's likely a key component in a number of diseases - cardiovasular, neurological, cancer (a ton of research is geared toward targeting PDK for cancer treatment - basically to do what I'm saying and starve the cancer cells), diabetes and obesity.

And from above, you can see why people complain, often about going on a keto diet and then think, "Any carbs I eat just go straight to fat. It's weird." Which self-reinforces that carbs are "bad". This COULD just be that they are no longer dieting so they are over eating - or there is actually a scientifically supported theory that would suggest HOW this could happen (as above).

And of course, if you need to convert a carbohydrate to fat in order to burn it efficiently, you are now taking a 4 calorie gram and converting it to a 9 calorie gram before you can burn it. Very efficient - if you're trying to conserve energy and survive. Very inefficient if you want to get a 6 pack.

This itself actually would explain "metabolic slowdown" without ANY need for your caloric expenditure to change. It would give the appearance of significant weight gain/inability to lose weight on MUCH less food than before you dieted. You were probably burning 2500 calories before you dieted, and maybe you still are - but you're much better at converting it to fat now and burning less of it for the same 2500 calories.

Now the disconnect is, I'm suggesting reversing this process - take the fat out of storage and convert it to carbs because the fat can't be burned. You are still burning fat, but you're burning it as carbs instead - and losing a gram for every 4 calories you burn.

And this concept is basic in biology, but an intense focus in diabetes. I have studies going back to 78 showing it has a strong impact on T2 Diabetes. The studies above suggest reversals of T2D with inhibition or deletion of PDK and induction of diabetes by inhibiting or deleting the PDC (the cycle PDK inhibits). So it's not something that can be just reversed if you change the way you eat - it's pretty difficult.

And the issue is - getting fat elevates the enzyme which causes these problems. And caloric deficits elevate this enzyme, which makes the problem worse. I would think the only real way to be 100% free of it would be to get unrealistically lean, have a pharmaceutical intervention, and reintroduce carbs.

But this is probably why refeeds are so important in a diet as well - it at least will minimize this because you are limiting fat and hopefully reducing PDK because of the presence of carbs and reduction in fat. It's also why obese people wouldn't see much benefit from a refeed - they have such a high level of PDK in their system it is difficult to shift their metabolism enough to matter. They are going to have elevated PDK and dysfunction until they get below 15-20% that is sufficient to kill any carb refeeds.

Anyway...I'm mostly rambling here. Sorry.

 

[hairygrandpa]

^^^^Calories burned typing: 2 kcal.



Good read btw.

 

[HIT4ME]

^^^^Calories burned typing: 2 kcal.



Good read btw.

Another classic mistake. Over estimating calories burned in exercise.

Plus...I am an efficient typer...I leave mistakes and poor word choices and never go back. Saves a lot of fuel

 

[MrKleen73]

MrKleen73 - let me explain this a little differently.

The PATHOLOGY of obesity involves the following (not the entire story, but a key part) -

You overeat.

Insulin downregulates gluconeogenesis, and tries to shuttle nutrients out of the blood. Muscle cells fill with glycogen, and start to burn. If you are good at burning carbs, you will burn these fast. But if you eat again, before those carbs are burned off - you will create a backlog of glucose, which causes your body to start converting carbs to fat. The presence of FFA in the blood ITSELF, increases PDK - which inhibits the use of carbohydrate for energy and switches on fat burning. So, over eating carbs and converting to fat OR eating fat will and ESPECIALLY eating carbs AND Fat will all do this. Carbs just happen to require a significant overload and time to create the situation.

This increase in PDK is one of the, if not the major, cause of insulin resistance and metabolic dysfunction. Now, since PDK is elevated, you can shuttle carbs into cells still, at first, but they will be burned more slowly because PDK is high and carb burning is hindered. Of course, this triggers the cycle even more, which increases PDK even more, which just keeps going until your body can clear things out at the very least. In the meantime, insulin is trying to bring the FFA levels down and since the muscle cells are full and unable to burn any carbs that are available, it means higher blood sugar, which means more lipogenesis, which means more fat conversion.

The more this happens, the more PDK is created, the more the PDC is inhibited, the better you are at burning fat and the worse you are at burning carbs. If this gets bad enough (like obesity or after a keto diet perhaps?) - eventually you will be so bad at burning carbs that ANY carbs you eat will NEED to be stored as fat before they are burned for fuel. It never gets to that 100% mark really, but the carb burning is dramatically reduced and the fat burning is dramatically increased.

And while I agree with you that we can adapt and we are good at changing - this does not appear to be the case here. Or at least it is very hard to change. It's likely a key component in a number of diseases - cardiovasular, neurological, cancer (a ton of research is geared toward targeting PDK for cancer treatment - basically to do what I'm saying and starve the cancer cells), diabetes and obesity.

And from above, you can see why people complain, often about going on a keto diet and then think, "Any carbs I eat just go straight to fat. It's weird." Which self-reinforces that carbs are "bad". This COULD just be that they are no longer dieting so they are over eating - or there is actually a scientifically supported theory that would suggest HOW this could happen (as above).

And of course, if you need to convert a carbohydrate to fat in order to burn it efficiently, you are now taking a 4 calorie gram and converting it to a 9 calorie gram before you can burn it. Very efficient - if you're trying to conserve energy and survive. Very inefficient if you want to get a 6 pack.

This itself actually would explain "metabolic slowdown" without ANY need for your caloric expenditure to change. It would give the appearance of significant weight gain/inability to lose weight on MUCH less food than before you dieted. You were probably burning 2500 calories before you dieted, and maybe you still are - but you're much better at converting it to fat now and burning less of it for the same 2500 calories.

Now the disconnect is, I'm suggesting reversing this process - take the fat out of storage and convert it to carbs because the fat can't be burned. You are still burning fat, but you're burning it as carbs instead - and losing a gram for every 4 calories you burn.

And this concept is basic in biology, but an intense focus in diabetes. I have studies going back to 78 showing it has a strong impact on T2 Diabetes. The studies above suggest reversals of T2D with inhibition or deletion of PDK and induction of diabetes by inhibiting or deleting the PDC (the cycle PDK inhibits). So it's not something that can be just reversed if you change the way you eat - it's pretty difficult.

And the issue is - getting fat elevates the enzyme which causes these problems. And caloric deficits elevate this enzyme, which makes the problem worse. I would think the only real way to be 100% free of it would be to get unrealistically lean, have a pharmaceutical intervention, and reintroduce carbs.

But this is probably why refeeds are so important in a diet as well - it at least will minimize this because you are limiting fat and hopefully reducing PDK because of the presence of carbs and reduction in fat. It's also why obese people wouldn't see much benefit from a refeed - they have such a high level of PDK in their system it is difficult to shift their metabolism enough to matter. They are going to have elevated PDK and dysfunction until they get below 15-20% that is sufficient to kill any carb refeeds.

Anyway...I'm mostly rambling here. Sorry.

First off the bolded is exactly the reason for obesity, nothing else needed to be said... Obesity starts with overeating... Conversation over!

Okay man, now you better hold on to your skivvies... this is gonna be a surprise...

I am not going to argue the specifics of this as I do not know enough about PDK and or how it works in concert with other things that I know also govern metabolism and fat burning capabilities like leptin and glucagon and what not in a way that I can debate this appropriately. I must temporarily defer to your knowledge of PDK, research a little on it then form my opinion and share with you later. I do know that PDK does not work in a vacuum and that other variances other than the extremes you mention help to keep the balance in nature but I can not speak to any specifics and don't want to just spitball it here.

I will go read up on some of the stuff you listed here and see what you are looking at. I FEEL like this also may be an oversimplification of things relying on what you know about PDK but curious if reading it will give me the same or an opposing insight.

I think that it is safe to say that we both agree that Carb cycling is a more balanced, effective and probably healthier option for most. Other than for short periods to specifically elicit certain responsed from the body, I don't run keto. I do some form of carb cycling and have found it treats me better but I have to pay more attention to diet. However even when I do keto I refeed at least once a week, so I am always able to process carbs easily.

 

[MrKleen73]

Another classic mistake. Over estimating calories burned in exercise.

Plus...I am an efficient typer...I leave mistakes and poor word choices and never go back. Saves a lot of fuel

That explains a lot about some of your posts!!! HEHEHE!!!

 

[HIT4ME]

First off the bolded is exactly the reason for obesity, nothing else needed to be said... Obesity starts with overeating... Conversation over!

Okay man, now you better hold on to your skivvies... this is gonna be a surprise...

I am not going to argue the specifics of this as I do not know enough about PDK and or how it works in concert with other things that I know also govern metabolism and fat burning capabilities like leptin and glucagon and what not in a way that I can debate this appropriately. I must temporarily defer to your knowledge of PDK, research a little on it then form my opinion and share with you later. I do know that PDK does not work in a vacuum and that other variances other than the extremes you mention help to keep the balance in nature but I can not speak to any specifics and don't want to just spitball it here.

I will go read up on some of the stuff you listed here and see what you are looking at. I FEEL like this also may be an oversimplification of things relying on what you know about PDK but curious if reading it will give me the same or an opposing insight.

I think that it is safe to say that we both agree that Carb cycling is a more balanced, effective and probably healthier option for most. Other than for short periods to specifically elicit certain responsed from the body, I don't run keto. I do some form of carb cycling and have found it treats me better but I have to pay more attention to diet. However even when I do keto I refeed at least once a week, so I am always able to process carbs easily.

Yeah - I'm also not saying I am even right to be honest. I've been researching things around this for maybe...I don't know...almost a year I'd say. I agree that the CAUSE of obesity is (usually) over eating - but it's not the pathology. The pathology is part of what breaks.

And you are, of course, right. This is an over simplification and some of the extremes I'm using are really just constructs to convey the idea - ideas that I have a hard time grasping and may be misinterpreting too. As you say, none of this is in a vacuum. That's part of what makes it so complicated. This is essentially a switch in the kreb's cycle/TCA cycle - if you turn on the Pyruvate Dehydrogenase (PDC) complex, then you use carbs as your substrate. PDK is the switch that, as it elevates, shunts the energy source (like switching a train track I guess) from carbs to fat burning.

It is one of those things that to a lot of us, we've never heard about it - and to people who are SUPER smart, this is so elementary they may overlook it. I was explaining this to a guy who is working on gene editing to solve some rare diseases in children - and he started saying things I thought I was so smart for figuring out 1 minute into our conversation. He just got it on a level I can't.

And because I'm teaching myself, I could be interpreting things wrong. Having people like the guy above tell me things I was already thinking gives me the idea I MIGHT be onto something right - but I also am starting to realize that even the smart people misinterpret things. Look at Lactic Acid. For decades it was viewed as a metabolic poison, now it's viewed as an energy source.

In the end, the points I really want to make is, this is an interesting idea but I don't know that it's right or wrong. It just makes me question some of what is said in the media/fitness world. I mean, even today an article came up on my phone - "Reset your metabolism and turn on your fat burning" - which I get but it can be kind of misleading too. It just sounds good and seems smart when most people read it. I know YOU aren't like that MrKleen73 - actually you're a questioner like me.

I also want to point out, I'm in no way saying Keto, low carb or anything isn't worthwhile. As I said before....Endless PSMF guy here...no judgement haha. They are all tools in the box. But what I do hope is to get smart guys like you to question some things that you may not have questioned.

And you, as always, did your job in questioning me and making me defend and think through ways to convey my "theories". It may be all bullsh1t. I just don't know.

That explains a lot about some of your posts!!! HEHEHE!!!

I know!! If only it weren't true. I'm so long winded...who has time for editing. I wouldn't be able to do anything else but AM if I edited....or even took the time to think about my posts. haha.

 

[HIT4ME]

Oh, and BTW - no surprise. I could tell you knew nothing about PDK

hahaha.

 

[HIT4ME]

Oh, and one last thought - carb cycling I think is important, as you mentioned. But I can also see a point to low carb. I mean, if your carb metabolism is already fugged because you are obese, then you can't get PDK down until you lose weight anyway, and dieting will increase PDK as it is. So, in this light - avoiding the broken system altogether and only eating fat would have some big advantages. I think this is why keto seems to work when all else fails in a lot of people - because their carb "system" is so fugged that some large amount of whatever carbs they eat HAVE to be stored as fat, because their PDK is screwed up, their GLUT4 is a mess, etc. So it's better to just avoid the carbs. But in the long run - there may be some consequences to this, including health issues, that could be avoided with more knowledge.

 

[SFreed]

Another classic mistake. Over estimating calories burned in exercise.

Plus...I am an efficient typer...I leave mistakes and poor word choices and never go back. Saves a lot of fuel

I do the same with relationships. Carry on

 

[SFreed]

Huh.....A long winded, rambling drawn out HIT4ME post. What are the odds?

 

[HIT4ME]

I do the same with relationships. Carry on

That's a real skill - I wish I had been better at that.

Huh.....A long winded, rambling drawn out HIT4ME post. What are the odds?

Yeah, um, well, fack you man. You aren't making many friends today.

 

[SFreed]

That's a real skill - I wish I had been better at that.



Yeah, um, well, fack you man. You aren't making many friends today.

Fortunately for me, I value my own company.

 

[HIT4ME]

I'm gonna let this all slide, SFreed, since you had a pretty good joke right before. But you're on double probation. No more "favors" until I'm happy again.

 

[HIT4ME]

OK, I am happy now.

 

[BennyMagoo79]

Dieting has gotten too complicated and micro managing. Eat on a scheduled basis, lift heavy ****, and enjoy life. No need to micro manage your food unless you are a bodybuilder or have a debilitating disease.


Sent from my iPhone using Invalid Link Removed

I agree.
I don't mind being fat, so long as I'm on my way to being strong.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Invalid Link Removed

 

[MrKleen73]

Yeah - I'm also not saying I am even right to be honest. I've been researching things around this for maybe...I don't know...almost a year I'd say. I agree that the CAUSE of obesity is (usually) over eating - but it's not the pathology. The pathology is part of what breaks.

And you are, of course, right. This is an over simplification and some of the extremes I'm using are really just constructs to convey the idea - ideas that I have a hard time grasping and may be misinterpreting too. As you say, none of this is in a vacuum. That's part of what makes it so complicated. This is essentially a switch in the kreb's cycle/TCA cycle - if you turn on the Pyruvate Dehydrogenase (PDC) complex, then you use carbs as your substrate. PDK is the switch that, as it elevates, shunts the energy source (like switching a train track I guess) from carbs to fat burning.

It is one of those things that to a lot of us, we've never heard about it - and to people who are SUPER smart, this is so elementary they may overlook it. I was explaining this to a guy who is working on gene editing to solve some rare diseases in children - and he started saying things I thought I was so smart for figuring out 1 minute into our conversation. He just got it on a level I can't.

And because I'm teaching myself, I could be interpreting things wrong. Having people like the guy above tell me things I was already thinking gives me the idea I MIGHT be onto something right - but I also am starting to realize that even the smart people misinterpret things. Look at Lactic Acid. For decades it was viewed as a metabolic poison, now it's viewed as an energy source.

In the end, the points I really want to make is, this is an interesting idea but I don't know that it's right or wrong. It just makes me question some of what is said in the media/fitness world. I mean, even today an article came up on my phone - "Reset your metabolism and turn on your fat burning" - which I get but it can be kind of misleading too. It just sounds good and seems smart when most people read it. I know YOU aren't like that MrKleen73 - actually you're a questioner like me.

I also want to point out, I'm in no way saying Keto, low carb or anything isn't worthwhile. As I said before....Endless PSMF guy here...no judgement haha. They are all tools in the box. But what I do hope is to get smart guys like you to question some things that you may not have questioned.

And you, as always, did your job in questioning me and making me defend and think through ways to convey my "theories". It may be all bullsh1t. I just don't know.



I know!! If only it weren't true. I'm so long winded...who has time for editing. I wouldn't be able to do anything else but AM if I edited....or even took the time to think about my posts. haha.

Haha if I don't reread mine they become a jumbled mess. My ADHD gets me all over the place otherwise. Part of the reason I break my posts into small chunks of text that aren't even full paragraphs just placeholders for the thought process.

I will take it as a compliment that you weren't surprised. Not because you could tell I was a little ignorant of the specific subject but because you knew I would be humble enough now out rather than trying to bro science up a good sounding response. I am only moderately familiar with pdk at best and that was just from what was covered in my nutritional certificate program which was almost 18 months ago. However you have me intrigued!

Sent from my SM-G965U using Invalid Link Removed

 

[Newth]

Fortunately for me, I value my own company.

Excuse me if you may, a personal question...

How many people in Your RL actually understand that :/

 

[HIT4ME]

Haha if I don't reread mine they become a jumbled mess. My ADHD gets me all over the place otherwise. Part of the reason I break my posts into small chunks of text that aren't even full paragraphs just placeholders for the thought process.

I will take it as a compliment that you weren't surprised. Not because you could tell I was a little ignorant of the specific subject but because you knew I would be humble enough now out rather than trying to bro science up a good sounding response. I am only moderately familiar with pdk at best and that was just from what was covered in my nutritional certificate program which was almost 18 months ago. However you have me intrigued!

Sent from my SM-G965U using Invalid Link Removed

Actually - I was just being my jerk self

But in all seriousness I wouldn't be able to discuss things with you the way we do if a some requirements wasn't being met...

For one, you and I are stubborn but willing to change. I think we both will change our minds, but it won't be easy.

Which leads to (2) we both have reasoning behind what we believe and will challenge ideas with hat reasoning.

The PDK knowledge is a bit of a joke because I don't really get it all either. Even after all my research. It is a microscopic detail, but it seems uber important. Most of us are aware of the TCA Cycle, but how many of us could explain it sufficiently or even draw a diagram from memory? I couldn't? And this is ONE input off that cycle that has a sub cycle.

It isn't just humble - it is true intelligence. Most people are so busy trying to prove how smart they are, they can't let it go. You are intelligent enough yo let that go and look at new ideas...even if they may not seem "right". It is a true skill in my mind and you and a bunch of others on this board have it and it's a big part of what makes it such a great place.

 

[CJNator]

I agree.
I don't mind being fat, so long as I'm on my way to being strong.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Invalid Link Removed

Yea man it’s all about owning yourself, hell I need some more weight on my frame but aesthetics is necessary too. Balance is key to obtaining all self preserving goals.

 

[MrKleen73]

Actually - I was just being my jerk self

But in all seriousness I wouldn't be able to discuss things with you the way we do if a some requirements wasn't being met...

For one, you and I are stubborn but willing to change. I think we both will change our minds, but it won't be easy.

Which leads to (2) we both have reasoning behind what we believe and will challenge ideas with hat reasoning.

The PDK knowledge is a bit of a joke because I don't really get it all either. Even after all my research. It is a microscopic detail, but it seems uber important. Most of us are aware of the TCA Cycle, but how many of us could explain it sufficiently or even draw a diagram from memory? I couldn't? And this is ONE input off that cycle that has a sub cycle.

It isn't just humble - it is true intelligence. Most people are so busy trying to prove how smart they are, they can't let it go. You are intelligent enough yo let that go and look at new ideas...even if they may not seem "right". It is a true skill in my mind and you and a bunch of others on this board have it and it's a big part of what makes it such a great place.

Oh you big jerk you!!! Thanks, and agreed. You know I love debating with you on this stuff. Always a chance for better understanding if we are open to it.

Yea man it’s all about owning yourself, hell I need some more weight on my frame but aesthetics is necessary too. Balance is key to obtaining all self preserving goals.

I commend him on that. Me I am a bit more vain and want to look good more than I want to be strong. I am already strong, and things can even get kind of impressive when i am pushing for strength but I love too many facets of this stuff. So I go back and forth between things but in the end it all comes back down to wanting to look impressive for me. Not saying big thick strong men with higher body fat aren't impressive, they are but for their actions, not their physiques. I am always more impressed with guys like me who are born to be fatties and manage to get and stay lean for years at a time.

I was able to keep my abs for 2-3 years after my first show and it was hard for me. However this 20-25lb swing every year since is wearing on me so I really want to focus on getting down too, and maintaining in the 8-12% body fat level like i did then.

 

[Sam stack]

^^^^Calories burned typing: 2 kcal.



Good read btw.

How about an update hairy Grampa? How’s the cycle

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

yea gramps?? how is it?

 

[SkRaw85]

Show us them tittays

 

[Hyde]

Show us them tittays

I read this in a Chapelle Rick James voice and I made myself giggle

 

[CJNator]

Oh you big jerk you!!! Thanks, and agreed. You know I love debating with you on this stuff. Always a chance for better understanding if we are open to it.



I commend him on that. Me I am a bit more vain and want to look good more than I want to be strong. I am already strong, and things can even get kind of impressive when i am pushing for strength but I love too many facets of this stuff. So I go back and forth between things but in the end it all comes back down to wanting to look impressive for me. Not saying big thick strong men with higher body fat aren't impressive, they are but for their actions, not their physiques. I am always more impressed with guys like me who are born to be fatties and manage to get and stay lean for years at a time.

I was able to keep my abs for 2-3 years after my first show and it was hard for me. However this 20-25lb swing every year since is wearing on me so I really want to focus on getting down too, and maintaining in the 8-12% body fat level like i did then.

Ain’t nothing wrong with all that man, we all have goals that push us to be a better man for ourselves and everyone around us. Life’s a journey with ups and down, just keep on lifting, learning, and living ??.

 

[hairygrandpa]

How about an update hairy Grampa? How’s the cycle

yea gramps?? how is it?

Show us them tittays

Well, did 80mg of t-bol for the first week -had to cut it down to 40mg. BP got up and "off-feeling" started.
Still not kicking in -but that is normal for me. Everything kicks in late for me. Diet is on point, except yesterday I cheated heavily with ice cream. To my surprise I woke up leaner. WOW, that means ice cream every day = getting lean! Let's party!



The glycerin+water+minerals+sugar = super-hydration works flawless! No more cramps -or back pumps!

 

[SFreed]

I was lead to believe there would be pics of your breasteses. Or tittays, if you prefer. Extra reps if you're lactating. Again.

 

[hairygrandpa]

heavy day

Incline press machine
340lbs x5 (!) That was all the stack + extra weights. PR
265lbs x14/12/14

seated smith reverse shrugs
285lbs x13/11/10/9

smith shrugs
285lbs x16/12/13/10

one armed landmine press
2 plates x11/8/10

V-bar pulldown
225lbs x7
185lbs x12/10/10

 

[Sam stack]

heavy day

Incline press machine
340lbs x5 (!) That was all the stack + extra weights. PR
265lbs x14/12/14

seated smith reverse shrugs
285lbs x13/11/10/9

smith shrugs
285lbs x16/12/13/10

one armed landmine press
2 plates x11/8/10

V-bar pulldown
225lbs x7
185lbs x12/10/10

How far are you into the cycle hairy grandpa? How is the gear treating you? How’s the gains?

 

[Newth]

I was lead to believe there would be pics of your breasteses. Or tittays, if you prefer. Extra reps if you're lactating. Again.

hairygrandpa ^^^This!
I'm new here and all and I have to say, like gaming. The beta is never as good as the first. Damn you for stopping trest.

 

[hairygrandpa]

How far are you into the cycle hairy grandpa? How is the gear treating you? How’s the gains?

The official cycle with trest, sdrol and lgd is over. Got gyno symptoms from trest and dropped it first -finished the sdrol and bridged after a 2 weeks pause into tbol. Now on tbol 40mg/d + test 500mg/w for about 10 days. Will bump up tbol to 80mg next week.

Trest ace is awesome -will try again in a few weeks with caber and winy to curve progesteron and prolactin.
Sdrol treated me better than expected, did not hit my liver as hard as anticipated. Even on a 2000kcal surplus, I did not gain weight and recomped on it.

 

[hairygrandpa]

Getting leaner, here some nudez:

Invalid Link Removed

Still no abs in sight...working on it.

 

[MrKleen73]

Show us them tittays

I read this in a Chapelle Rick James voice and I made myself giggle

Ain’t nothing wrong with all that man, we all have goals that push us to be a better man for ourselves and everyone around us. Life’s a journey with ups and down, just keep on lifting, learning, and living ??.

Oh I agree, whatever the motivation is. I just wish that in my case I could be satisfied with being heavy and strong. I could have a lot more fun eating then. For me when I am heavy I simply do not feel as confident and I don't like not feeling confident.

Getting leaner, here some nudez:

Invalid Link Removed

Still no abs in sight...working on it.

Sexy Fugger!

 

[hairygrandpa]

Arms day

Close grip BB bench press
225lbs x14/12/10

standing landmines, shoulder to shoulder -both hands 1 Plate
40/43/37

standing overhead triceps extensions ez-bar 60lbs
48/39/35

floor db extensions
2x25lbs x 33/26/22

smith drag curls
110lbs x17/14/14/12

db concentration curls
35lbs x16/12/13/14

straight bar curls, standing against wall
60lbs x16/12/11/12

BW triceps extensions horizontal bar, hip height
8/7/9/6

 

[HIT4ME]

Getting leaner, here some nudez:

Invalid Link Removed

Still no abs in sight...working on it.

Fugging-Mutha-Fugger!

You are making tremendous improvements man. Those arms are impressive when you can see the muscles. I am impressed.

 

[hairygrandpa]

Fugging-Mutha-Fugger!

You are making tremendous improvements man. Those arms are impressive when you can see the muscles. I am impressed.

Thank you. I can't see any muscles, my Body dysmorphic disorder inhibits it.

 

[Newth]

Looking really good HGP.

Forget trying for abs anyway.
Just do extra upper trap and neck work instead, scary v's sexy is a thing.
Then any hot chicks that come your way after that wont run away creeped out so easy, the freaky ones like fear.

 

[hairygrandpa]

Looking really good HGP.

Forget trying for abs anyway.
Just do extra upper trap and neck work instead, scary v's sexy is a thing.
Then any hot chicks that come your way after that wont run away creeped out so easy, the freaky ones like fear.

I'm very slowly getting those traps to grow. No idea why its so hard for me. Supposedly traps have a lot of androgen receptors and respond to gear use the most.
Have to find the time -and motivation to do neck workout. It looks so silly with that head strap...

 

[Newth]

I'm very slowly getting those traps to grow. No idea why its so hard for me. Supposedly traps have a lot of androgen receptors and respond to gear use the most.
Have to find the time -and motivation to do neck workout. It looks so silly with that head strap...

Heavy dumbbell and barbell shrugs always made my traps exploded on cycle.

The head straps will only help find said freaky chicks or just hold a plate on your head.

 

[HIT4ME]

I know we kind of hijacked the thread - but here is a good article on the science of low carb vs. High carb:

Invalid Link Removed

I have also seen some evidence showing that the leanest individuals tend to have the highest carb intake, which is something I've observed anecdotally in discussions with people - and what I was pointing out with the group of us here that tend to naturally gravitate toward lower carbs yet seem to still struggle with weight.

Obviously, not suggesting low carb doesn't work myself either - just trying to bring up new angles to the discussion and open more opportunities for some of us.

 

[SFreed]

I'm very slowly getting those traps to grow. No idea why its so hard for me. Supposedly traps have a lot of androgen receptors and respond to gear use the most.
Have to find the time -and motivation to do neck workout. It looks so silly with that head strap...

Stop attaching a banana to the strap and maybe it won't look so odd.

 

[SFreed]

Fugging-Mutha-Fugger!

You are making tremendous improvements man. Those arms are impressive when you can see the muscles. I am impressed.

Sure hairygrandpa's more muscular than us, but we've got good looks and boyish charm going for us.

 

[hairygrandpa]

Heavy dumbbell and barbell shrugs always made my traps exploded on cycle.

The head straps will only help find said freaky chicks or just hold a plate on your head.

I love freaky chicks!

Invalid Link Removed

 

[hairygrandpa]

Sure hairygrandpa's more muscular than us, but we've got good looks and boyish charm going for us.

Boyish charm?

Invalid Link Removed

 

[SFreed]

Boyish charm?

Invalid Link Removed

See, you get it. Except that looks more like Jeff than me. He's got that sweet 80's porn star moustache thing.

 

[HIT4ME]

See, you get it. Except that looks more like Jeff than me. He's got that sweet 80's porn star moustache thing.

No 'stache here, but my gf always thinks your name is a made up porn star name.

 

[CJNator]

HGP I can’t see you photo on the app :/ as long as you’re makin em gainz man keep it up!