Mk 677 What's the verdict
- Thread starter Godstrength
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justhere4comm
Banned
The exact opposite with my test subject. Anything else in the system at the time that might be causing this?
Allhealsonme
Member
Nothing at all. Possibly a side effect from water retention? Muscle recovery has noticeably increased as well as sleep...
Mike Arnold
Board Sponsor
It's all water retention, brother. Intestinal growth due to IGF-1 elevation does not take place in 3-4 days, even if someone was using 1,000 iu of GH daily. In fact, intestinal growth occurs VERY slowly even when using massive dosages of GH and takes YEARS to develop. On top of that, one must be insulin resistant for this effect to fully manifest, as intestinal IGF-1 receptors only become over-sensitized to the effects of IGF-1 when the body is in an insulin resistant state. I've known many guys who have used 15-20 iu of GH/day for years and their waist never grew an inch (either did the rest of their body because they didn't know how to train or eat).
Besides, GH induced stomach distension is rarely due to intestinal growth. The most prominent cause of stomach distension is visceral fat build-up due to insulin resistance is, which high-dose GH is well known to cause. This also takes years.
Intestinal growth is not an issue anyone needs to concern themselves with when using GH and especially MK-677 (Somatozine). Not only does MK-677 not cause clinical insulin resistance, but IGF-1 levels don't get anywhere near high enough to have a visible effect on intestinal growth. A bodybuilder would have to use massive dosages of GH, while remaining in an insulin resistant state, in order for intestinal growth to even start to become an issue.
This is why we often see retired pros (some of whom used 10-20 iu of GH for years) without any distension at all a few years after stopping bodybuilding. Everyone used to say Dorian's organs were enlarged from the massive GH use, but it was all bull****. His stomach is pretty darn flat now. The same thing will happen to Kai when he retires...and basically every other pro.
There are many potential causes of stomach distension, but organ growth is at the bottom of the list.
Mike Arnold
Board Sponsor
If you've noticed nothing it is not the fault of the product, as MK (and especially Somatozine) has gotten innumerable great reviews over the years.
Unfortunately, there are a lot of people out there who take supps without knowing a darn thing about training and nutrition...and therefore they make terrible gains no matter what they take. If i were to guess I would say you were probably a beginner. I could be wrong, but that's just a hunch.
I knew a guy--a friend of mine from about 10 years ago--who started using steroids. It was his fist cycle and he was using Epistane. He gained nothing. At first I thought it might be bunk, but then I used it myself and it wasn't. I then put him on a test cycle and he gained nothing but a few pounds of water. I knew the test wasn't fake because it was the same stuff I was using. Finally, I put him on SD and he gained...wait for it...NOTHING! He put on about 2-3 pounds of I.M water and that was it...and he was using 30 mg/day for a month!
After speaking to him more in depth about his training and diet the problem became apparent immediately. The guy didn't have a clue how to eat or train to get big.
I am not saying this is the case with you, but I will say that of all the people I've known who have used MK-677 and gained NOTHING...virtually all of them were rail thin beginners (by bodybuilding standards). This leads me to believe that none of them knew how to eat or train for muscle growth...and it is quite common. If someone has poor genetics the problem is only made worse.
To my knowledge there are no non-responders to MK-677. In every clinical study ever conducted, which involves 100's of test subjects, it has worked in everyone (from an IGF-1 elevation standpoint).
I had a customer email me the other day and tell me his IGF-1 levels was 385, which is damn good. Another guy, from Pro Muscle, gained 30 pounds in a few weeks using Somatozine (I could provide you with the link if you would like; he is using the same batch as you), but he was already 374 lbs to begin with and went up to 404 lbs without changing a single thing about his program.
Mike Arnold
Board Sponsor
Some guys get hand numbness and others don't. It's very individual.
abformulations
Legend
I got it maybe 3-5 times within the first 2 weeks only. On week 3 and have not gotten it.
Ricky10
Well-known member
Yeah, I was not referring to intestinal growth...haha. Just stimulation of IGF-1 receptors in the gut, of which every person has a varied number of such receptors...per this theory. You know how stimulation of certain parts can make things seem bigger!
Not really sure, It was not my theory so I am not completely aware of all the logistics. Of course I can't find where I read it again either..
aovereem
Member
Yeah, my joints didn't feel good at all. I have ****ed up joints normally but they felt stiffer than ever on MK-677.
Actually at the end of the cycle I managed to tear my knee LCL while doing warm up stretches before my squat session. A stretch movement I have done for years and still do, and it had never given me any problems.. Was like a gunshot went off inside my right knee..
Mike Arnold
Board Sponsor
Any increased "stiffness" (another word for tightness) associated with MK is due to water retention...not joint problems. There is a similar effect with drugs like SD, Anadrol, injectable GH, and even insulin. All of these drugs make the body fuller and therefore tighter or "stiffer". MK can do the same, but it has nothing to do with the joint themselves.
MK actually helps improve joint health and lubrication. It does this by increasing IGF-1 and GH levels, which not only lubricates the joints through increased water levels, but by increasing collagen production, which is the primary building block of connective tissue.
There is no mechanism by which MK can damage the "joints". Furthermore, when people say "joints" I am assuming they are referring to their connective tissue and not their actual bones, as bone issues generally do not occur unless connective tissue has been destroyed (causing bone to rub on bone). MK (and injectable GH) has the opposite effect, enhancing connective tissue recovery, strength, and overall health. This is one of the main reason athletes use GH--to help prevent the wear and tear on connective tissue that occurs with high intensity sports, thereby allowing the athlete to stay in the game longer.
Not only has 99.9% of MK user feedback been positive in regards to joint health, but all the available clinical research shows only positive effects in this area. The two guys above are literally the only two people I have ever seen that have said something contradictory, but I think they are associating the tighter feeling MK provides with something negative, when it is not negative at all.
MK only helps joint integrity and health via increased IGF-1 and GH levels.
We need to look at science in combination with logical real-world experiences when drawing conclusions. Someone who infers that MK caused/contributed to their ACL tear, despite admittedly having dealt with "****ed up joints" for years (meaning they already had connective tissue damage), is a completely baseless accusation. Not only is there zero evidence that shows MK harms connective tissue, but we actually have an abundance of evidence which shows the exact opposite--that MK-677 HELPS repair-strengthen connective tissue. The logical conclusion? It's simple. This individual, as unfortunate as it is, finally tore his connective tissue after years of prior degeneration; a condition which he has readily admitted to having. The bottom line is that his ACL was already ****ed up and finally gave out. There is nothing that MK/GH could've done to help rectify this man's situation within such a short period of time...and it certainly didn't contribute to the problem.
MK actually helps improve joint health and lubrication. It does this by increasing IGF-1 and GH levels, which not only lubricates the joints through increased water levels, but by increasing collagen production, which is the primary building block of connective tissue.
There is no mechanism by which MK can damage the "joints". Furthermore, when people say "joints" I am assuming they are referring to their connective tissue and not their actual bones, as bone issues generally do not occur unless connective tissue has been destroyed (causing bone to rub on bone). MK (and injectable GH) has the opposite effect, enhancing connective tissue recovery, strength, and overall health. This is one of the main reason athletes use GH--to help prevent the wear and tear on connective tissue that occurs with high intensity sports, thereby allowing the athlete to stay in the game longer.
Not only has 99.9% of MK user feedback been positive in regards to joint health, but all the available clinical research shows only positive effects in this area. The two guys above are literally the only two people I have ever seen that have said something contradictory, but I think they are associating the tighter feeling MK provides with something negative, when it is not negative at all.
MK only helps joint integrity and health via increased IGF-1 and GH levels.
We need to look at science in combination with logical real-world experiences when drawing conclusions. Someone who infers that MK caused/contributed to their ACL tear, despite admittedly having dealt with "****ed up joints" for years (meaning they already had connective tissue damage), is a completely baseless accusation. Not only is there zero evidence that shows MK harms connective tissue, but we actually have an abundance of evidence which shows the exact opposite--that MK-677 HELPS repair-strengthen connective tissue. The logical conclusion? It's simple. This individual, as unfortunate as it is, finally tore his connective tissue after years of prior degeneration; a condition which he has readily admitted to having. The bottom line is that his ACL was already ****ed up and finally gave out. There is nothing that MK/GH could've done to help rectify this man's situation within such a short period of time...and it certainly didn't contribute to the problem.
The Express 42
Well-known member
Forgive me, I’m sure it’s somewhere in this thread but what’s the general consensus on reconstituting your mk677. I’ve heard everclear and water
DemntedCowboy
Well-known member
Yes
horizons
Well-known member
So many mixed reviews lol probably be beneficial at my age
Shadasonic
New member
I am a very pessimistic person. I have been on Neutra ball for two months and just started doing the PC 157 for my tendon damage on my elbows. I have seen amazing results with trans dermal usage of BPC 157 using DMSO at 50% iso prpropal30%, and it percent and purified water at 20. I no longer have golfers elbow and my strength has went up tremendously. I am doing waited 30 pound pull-ups for 17 reps when I used to only do 11 two months ago
Shadasonic
New member
Nutrabol mk677 is what I meant plus 2 months of s4, I'm strong as hell right now, amazing
Mike Arnold
Board Sponsor
User reviews are actually very lopsided in favor of MK, as the VAST majority of reviews have been very positive. Sure, there are some people who may not like certain aspects of the drug, such as its ability to increase appetite, etc...but when it comes to doing what it is supposed to do, the overwhelming majority have testified that MK did exactly that. There are literally 1000's of reviews all over the Net...and you will find that 98% of users say the drug performed according to expectations.
rowz4broz
Well-known member
its with much sadness I am stopping my MK 677 run. Many people have reportped better sleep with this GH secretagogue, but it has ****ed my sleep up so badly. Literally laying in bed for hours and not tired at all. Got about 2 hours of sleep last night. And while im not tired rn. I know this isnt good for me.
abformulations
Legend
Wow that's crazy. I'm obsessed with the sleep I get. I even experimented dosing an hour before bed and right before bed and both gave me amazing sleep.
rowz4broz
Well-known member
trust me, i am EXTREMELY upset with this. MK 677 seems like a game changer to me and I was really starting to feel a more swole pump in the gym and muscle hardness, but i just cant freaking sleep. Driving me crazy tbh. If this doesnt work i am going to cut out Magnitropin because around the same time i started taking that I began to have sleep issues as well but mk has seemed to make it worse. Ill report back
rascal14
Well-known member
I had the same issue with it. It also made me hold so much water my hands doubled in size lol
Mike Arnold
Board Sponsor
Have you tried a non-addictive sleep aide like trazadone or even Kirklands' Sleep Aide (an OTC product)? Of course, there are many other options as well.
rowz4broz
Well-known member
amino PM by muscle elements at TWO Scoops. and absolutely NOTHING. Look up the blend that sleep aid is no joke. MK jusr had my mind so awake
rowz4broz
Well-known member
glad to know that im not the only one
rascal14
Well-known member
I can confirm Trazadone is awesome. I took it once for sleep and felt amazing the next day. It didn’t make me super tired, but It’s like as soon as my head hit the pillow I was out.
I can sleep fine without it, but I’ve been feeling super tired the next day no matter how much sleep I get. It seems Klonopin and the Trazadone were the only things that gave me noticeably improved energy and motivation the next day. I’m not sure if they just improve my sleep quality or what, I would like to get something over the counter to produce the same results but I don’t know if it’s possible.
Sorry I got a bit off topic there. Lol
rowz4broz
Well-known member
took a g of some pheni before work today for the anti anxiety effects due to lack of sleep yday. didnt know this was beneficial to aid in sleep as well
Ricky10
Well-known member
I forgot which kind you are taking, is it Somatozine? I only ask because of the melatonin content which can often have an adverse affect and keep people awake. I am one that does not respond all that favorably to melatonin at all.
jarrellt67
Well-known member
I wonder if that's why it stopped working for me. I've tried low doses of melatonin (300 mcg) but not 2.5 mg like in the product. Had great sleep at first but then major insomnia for over a week. I just figured it was the Vitamin D (which I've read should be taken in the morning) since many have claimed it hurts their sleep if taken too close to bed. Significantly better sleep when I dropped it (and added magnesium/l-theanine in its place).
Ricky10
Well-known member
I have done time-released melatonin at low mcg dosage and it was still problematic for me.
Yeah, magnesium alone can do wonders for sleep. L-theanine isn't too shabby either!
rowz4broz
Well-known member
Not somatozine... I am taking an MK only RC chem
Ricky10
Well-known member
Gotcha, well at least that eliminates one potential problem. On the other side of the coin, some melatonin could benefit you. Entirely depends upon the person.
Having been on MK for over a month now, I don't see any difference in my sleep, or lack thereof..
alvin1
Well-known member
Just watched a youtube video, by a guy name tood leed, saying the MK 677 does not has a half life of 24 hrs? What do you think? Mike Arnold
Garyboy
Member
Neobolics.
Garyboy
Member
Same thing happened to me with melatonin. Only reason I wouldn't order Somatizine. Wonder if Mike will eventually take melatonin out of the formula.
Ricky10
Well-known member
I asked him before and he did not sound very interested in producing a melatonin free version..
Mike Arnold
Board Sponsor
I'm sorry, but I am not going to remove it. I want to make you happy, but I need to take into consideration the majority when formulating products...and the only two people I have ever heard complain about the melatonin dose was you and Ricky10. That's a very low percentage.
Besides, it only contains 5 mg, which is considered an "average" dose. Most supp companies that sell melatonin make products that contain 2-5 mg...and sometimes up to 10 mg. I settled on 5 mg because that was the dose shown to produce the greatest increases in GH levels (and also because it is considered a very safe and healthy dose).
There was a study done not too long ago in which melatonin was evaluated for its effects on muscle mass and bodyfat. The researchers were shocked to learn that melatonin, without any other variables being altered, was able to not only build new muscle tissue (a few pounds), but reduce bodyfat (a few pounds) in non-weight training individuals. Someone might read this and think "a few pounds of muscle and a few pounds of fat loss...what's the big deal?", but when we stop to consider that these results were achieved in non-weight training people, they are spectacular. In fact, it's ability to build muscle and reduce fat wasn't too far away from the type of results that testosterone and growth hormone have caused in non-weight training individuals.
Furthermore, most people these days have deficient melatonin levels (due to a variety of factors), making melatonin supplementation not only beneficial for one's appearance, but for overall health. In fact, most people should probably be supplementing with it for general overall health, even if for no other reason.
But going back to the original point--most people like the inclusion of melatonin because it enhances muscle growth and fat loss by a significant margin. I understand there may be a few guys here and there who think 5 mg is too much, but the vast majority are completely fine when they wake up the next morning and appreciate the wide range of benefits it provides. Unfortunately, some people are overly sensitive to it, but the same can be said for basically every other drug/hormone as well. If someone is going to experience undesirable side effects from Somatozine, in 99%+ of the cases it is going to be from the MK-677, not the melatonin.
Mike Arnold
Board Sponsor
This reason this happens to some people is because the brain is hit with a the full dose of melatonin all at once, which inevitably makes the brain think it is time to sleep. However, when it wears off 4-5 hours later the mind thinks it is being cued to wake up. This is what happens naturally every morning; our melatonin levels fall and cortisol levels rise, causing the mind to be placed in a more wakeful state. As part of the circadian rhythm this hormonal shift is usually stimulated by sunlight, but this shift--at least in part--can also be induced artificially, as explained above.
Most people don't experience this when using melatonin and simply experience improved sleep, but some people do, such as yourself.
Although some companies make time-released melatonin products, they are not true time-released products in the way we might think of them. Even with these products a huge percentage of the compound is released right up-front, followed by a much smaller quantity a short time later. A true time-released product would mimic the excretion of melatonin by the pineal gland in terms of both rate and quantity, but no one has been able to replicate that from a pharmacokinetic standpoint with OTC supplements.
alvin1
Well-known member
Mike Arnold can you comments on the above?
paul56778
Well-known member
My sleep pattern is altered e.g. i sleep for one hour and wake more through night but i feel more recovered despite broken up pattern and keep having vivid dreams every time i go back to sleep.
I feel i can get by on 6-7 hours with the MK677 vs the normal 8-10 i require.
aovereem
Member
Science? Ok, so present the scientific evidence of the repairing effects of MK-677. Yes, there are anecdotal evidence of joint repair from GH, as there are equal amount of anecdotal evidence of joint pain and stiffness from GH. Does it increase collagen synthesis? Yes, but so does anabolic steroids. But I still haven´t seen a single study showing it´s strengthening effects on connective tissue.
There is this 2013 study though:
J Bone Joint Surg Am. 2013 May 1;95(9):783-9. doi: 10.2106/JBJS.L.00222.
Human growth hormone may be detrimental when used to accelerate recovery from acute tendon-bone interface injuries.
Baumgarten KM1, Oliver HA, Foley J, Chen DG, Autenried P, Duan S, Heiser P.
By the way. My effed up joints are mostly due to plica syndrome, an abundance of joint tissue and has nothing to do with degeneration. My ligaments are strong as steel and have held up perfectly during decades of hockey, BJJ, MMA and powerlifting. There are 4 ligaments in the knee. I tore the "LCL, not the "ACL". Could it have been a coincidence? Maybe. But it definately raised my attention.
rascal14
Well-known member
I was gonna dose in the mornings if I ever decided to give it another try. I’ve seen that help a few people.
Mike Arnold
Board Sponsor
It stays active for about a day.
Mike Arnold
Board Sponsor
Look, if you are one of those guys who refuses to accept that extrapolation can lead to reliable conclusions, there is nothing I can say to you. In this case you might as well argue that GH doesn't increase muscle growth. Actually, you should just take it a step further and argue that SD doesn't build any muscle tissue either. After all, there has never been a single human study showing that SD--or about 200 other steroids--are capable of building muscle mass in humans, yet we know for a fact they do. Obviously, if we can draw conclusions like this with SD based on both anecdotal evidence and scientific extrapolation, then it is also possible to do with other drugs.
Now, you could sit here and continue to say "I am going to deny that MK is capable of stimulating tendon regeneration until I see a study specifically showing that it does", but I won't argue about something that doesn't exist. Just like I won't argue with someone who says that I can't claim SD causes muscle growth in humans because no studies exist, neither will argue with someone who says that naturally produced GH (MK-677) doesn't stimulate tendon/connective tissue regeneration--because we already knows that this is one GH's primary functions in the body. .
Now, extrapolation obviously isn't reliable in all cases, but there are times in which it is. In the case of MK-677 I would say it is pretty reliable for multiple reasons, so let's see why.
As you know, studies show that GH can greatly increase collagen synthesis. However, there are multiple types of collagen produced by the body, all of which have different functions. The good news is that GH increases production of the specific type of collagen that assists in the regeneration of tendons. Being that MK also increases GH levels, it is reasonable to conclude that it would increase the production of the same type of collagen and therefore stimulate tendon regeneration...just like exo. GH.
Of course, we also need to look at the amount of GH required to have this effect, to make sure MK-677 is capable of elevating GH levels to the same degree as those seen in the exo. GH studies. How much GH does it take to have this effect? Research has shown that even 1-2 iu of exo. GH significantly increases collagen production...and 3 iu led to a dramatic increase. MK-677 is capable of increasing GH levels the equivalent of 3 iu of exo. GH...and in some cases even more.
You mention the fact that AAS have also been shown to increase collagen production, but comparing AAS to MK-677 is inaccurate for a few reasons. For one, not all AAS increase collage synthesis. In fact, many drastically reduce collagen synthesis. Just 300 mg of testosterone/week (I could be off on that number, as it has been year since I read the study, but I know it's close) has been shown decrease collagen synthesis by up to 80%. That is a LOT--similar to an 80 year old man! Furthermore, even if a steroid does increase the production of the right type of collagen, it still will not have the same effect. This is because steroids do not build structurally sound connective tissue like GH does. Winstrol is perhaps the most well known example. Although Winstrol has been shown to increase collagen synthesis significantly and build bigger tendons, it causes what is known as cross-linking (improper formation of connective tissue). This cases the tendons to get bigger, but they also become WEAKER and more prone to in jury. This is why so many tendon injuries occur while using Winstrol. There is is no denying that Winstrol will build tendon size, but it sure doesn't make them stronger--it makes them weaker by decreasing their structural integrity.
GH does not and has never been shown to have this effect.
So, when you compare AAS to GH you are comparing apples to oranges, but when you compare GH to MK-677, you are comparing apples to apples because both drugs increase the exact same hormone with the exact same functions. Both are human hormones (not synthetic aberrations like AAS, which produce unnatural effects). In fact, MK causes the release of real, naturally produced GH. So, we can reliably conclude that exo. GH and pituitary produced GH (MK-677) both have the same effect, as exo. GH is bio-identical to the GH produced by the pituitary.
In terms of anecdotal evidence, bodybuilders and especially athletes have known for decades that GH promotes tendon regeneration. This is the main reason that athletes use it. It helps keep them in the game longer and increases their chances of remaining injury free. In fact, the real-world evidence for GH's positive effect on tendons/connective tissue is so vast that it is almost impossible to deny. In combination with what science has already revealed about GH and its effects on the tendons, it stands to reason that any drug (MK-677) that substantially increases GH levels would have the same effect.
Lastly, real-world evidence has shown, with ever increasing frequency, that MK-677 has the same kind of beneficial effects on connective tissue that GH does. This is not surprising, as the level of GH shown in studies to greatly increase collagen production is easily replicated by MK-677.
So, while no studies exist showing that MK-677 aides in tendon recovery/growth (just like no studies exist showing it increases muscle fullness or a muscle pump, even though we know it does), we do know that GH (which MK directly increases) does have this effect, as it is one of this hormone's main roles in the body.
Dirty Duke
New member
I hear you. I've been running for awhile now and I can't remember the last time I had a good nights sleep. Normally I go to bed around 11pm, fall asleep quite quickly, but then I'm awake-asleep-awake throughout the night.
rowz4broz
Well-known member
my sleep has improved 1000000x since getting off. No bull****. Beyond relived i can ****ing sleep again